OOC: The Rise of the National Sonacist Party
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The Grim Reaper
TNPer
What're you thinking?Wolfsea:
btw, I still owe you a PM reply - haven't forgotten, just caught up in a few routine things.
The Grim Reaper
TNPer
Imperium can offer that assurance, but there was no unconditional surrender offered to Imperium.Nebula:
We are, indeed, able to promise, ICly, significant concessions to unlimited rule. For instance, were the Argent Alliance or Guslantis willing to negotiate it, Imperium would even be able to offer a constitutional monarchy, with a foreign head of government. The Guslant Beth Moore has made herself popular with the Rhuvish Proconsulate, and certain members of McMasterdonia's royalty (who have fallen on the correct side of history) are well-placed to influence the development of a respectable, liberal nation.
A more permanent solution than Kannex' appeasement strategy, or Wolfsea's directionless ceasefire.
I agree slightly. We should have the House of Bachenburg come back in and be figureheads, and then have a tribunal of foreign nations to appoint a temporary Rhuvish leader and their successors until we can be totally sure Rhuvanland is ready for home government.
Pataliputra will host if you'd like. I had a great weekend and I am more able to post now!
Pataliputra will host if you'd like. I had a great weekend and I am more able to post now!
The Grim Reaper
TNPer
Nah, we'll have one of our own Princes take control, thanks.Syrixia:
We've been working hard to get international support for an operation in Rhuvanland since before Wolfsea even declared war, as well as an alternative government. It is only just that we finish the job.
The public will not rally around an August noble and will see it as a great insult.The Grim Reaper:
Perhaps the Bachenburgs can come back and in exchange the Imperium can select a temporary Head of Government without the tribunal, and then that Head can be the Imperium's and Rhuvanland's representative at a Rhuvanland Security Tribunal that keeps an eye on Rhuvish events.
EDIT: Ooh, the Nazos just surrendered to the Argents.
EDIT 2: Not just. I just saw that and I just thought just.
The Grim Reaper
TNPer
The public will not rally around an August noble and will see it as a great insult. <<< This is the intention.Syrixia:
Imperium has been lenient on a people that have spit in the face of the lives and livelihoods of hundreds, including Imperium's friends in Guslantis. If you OOCly want the Bachenburgs in power, then so be it, but ICly, this is the one matter that is not negotiable. Imperium is not going to hand Rhuvanland to yet another complacent administration from Syrixia; one that has been unwilling to support Imperium's struggle. Imperium is not going to hand Rhuvanland to an Argent Alliance led by Wolfsea - a nation that caused Caesar an unforgivable, grave diplomatic insult in its quest to defend the status quo and cause Imperium untold loss of life.
Imperium will fight for its head of state, whether it is alone, or together with others. OOCly, I am willing to back down if people want to get this over with, as we have all established that nobody really wants this RP to carry on, but there will be serious IC repercussions for Imperium's stance regarding the nations involved.
EDIT: Broken quote. Tell me if it is broken.
I come off rather peeved in this post, btw - that's just how I sound at this time of the day. I'm fairly chill atm.
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Naizerre would also be much more likely to actually prosecute their declared war against Syrixia were it to see a Syrixian-backed regime in power in Rhuvanland. It would just be more confirmation that Syrixia, ICly, is an imperialist.
MacSalterson
TNPer
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Yeraennus would probably be fine with anything that keeps Rhuvanland from being a complete colony of IA. We also want a military base.
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- Floresque
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Myroria supports the August position at this point. Floresque just wants to see this over with.
Kannex
TNPer
Kannex obviously wants an Argent-placed regime in Rhuvanland and to protect the Rhuvish people's sovereignty.
Doesn't Wolfsea and Trinster have a foothold in Rhuvish territory? The Nebulans and Yeraenn are quite close to the Rhuvish shore. It would be much easier for the Argents to accept the surrender now than for the Imperium. For the Imperium to assert its claim, it would have to not only establish a foothold in Rhuvanland, but also strong-arm the other invading armies that are already in Rhuvanland, or at the very least within Rhuvish borders.
Doesn't Wolfsea and Trinster have a foothold in Rhuvish territory? The Nebulans and Yeraenn are quite close to the Rhuvish shore. It would be much easier for the Argents to accept the surrender now than for the Imperium. For the Imperium to assert its claim, it would have to not only establish a foothold in Rhuvanland, but also strong-arm the other invading armies that are already in Rhuvanland, or at the very least within Rhuvish borders.
The Grim Reaper
TNPer
Imperium will continue to push its claim - we offered without condition cooperation with Wolfsea and the Argent Alliance, and their failure to offer us fair and proper compensation, or even common diplomatic custom, will not impact on Imperium's war.Kannex:
MacSalterson
TNPer
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We only have objection to an imperialistic takeover of Rhuvanland. Nothing wrong with setting up a Augustan Prince and having a joint government of IA and the AA.
The Empire's position will depend on what Imperium does. If Imperium works to eventually fully take over Rhuvanland and annex it, the Empire will oppose Imperium. However, if Imperium's rule is temporary and for nationbuilding, then the Empire will support Imperium.
The Grim Reaper
TNPer
Imperium would have been OK with that, until the Argent Alliance (via Wolfsea) screwed Caesar by putting a confidential diplomatic negotiation on /international television/. That's not a minor slight.Yeraennus:
I mean, we're willing to negotiate with that in mind - there's going to have to be some sort of concession, symbolic or otherwise, that might not need to come out of the Rhuvanland resolution.
MacSalterson
TNPer
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Land in Rhuvanland or near Rhuvanland, not IA.St George:You have an objection to an imperialistic takeover of Rhuvanland but you want land in Imperium for a military base? Seems a bit hypocritical
Also, I wasn't aware there was a rule against not being completely logical with government policies
IA can talk with Yeraennus in Floresque instead of Wolfsea.
The Grim Reaper
TNPer
This is unacceptable to Imperium - we will not be an 'augmentation' and post-show entertainment.Kannex:
Yeraennus' conditions are acceptable, although I want to catch up with you sometime about what the military base would do - I was confused when you explained it to me, last.
Esplandia and Tajis will accept whatever happens to Rhuvanland but would like to see some sort of monetary recompense, demilitarization in Rhuvanland, and maybe some kind of say in whatever government is set up. If no to the latter, than maybe some kind of land concession, i.e. a seaport for Tajis.
The Grim Reaper
TNPer
You misunderstand. The symbolic concessions are to be from Wolfsea, in reparation for the televised negotiation process.Kannex:
Imperium is prepared to, and will execute its war as planned.
The Grim Reaper
TNPer
I...thought I'd said? But, in more detail:Syrixia:
There are three phases. In the first, Proconsul Hilaria will lead a military government, during the process of normalizing civilian life. This should last approximately six months, and will happen concurrently to the implementation of the second phase - i.e. there is to be no transition time. The second phase is as follows: the following plan will be put in place, but the Representative College will be substituted for by the August Senate, for the election of a new leader (Beth Moore). The August Senate will continue to discharge the abilities of the Representative College until a Representative College can be convened, based on the conclusions of the international community regarding denazofication, although it may be convened in parts instead of as a whole throughout the phase.
The third phase will convene the Representative College as a whole to dismiss the August Senate.
An Augustine Prince or Princess (I have a particular Prince in mind) will start a cadet dynasty in Rhuvanland, as the sovereign, and we'll start denazofication under the leadership of Beth Moore, who will lead a cabinet of DU and Novrith ministers in a bicameral parliament. There is to be one elected Representative College, and one Noble Senate (initially appointed by the Rhuvish cadet dynasty and the Moore Government from Rhuvish defectors, with gaps filled by imported businessmen vetted by Imperium, from DU and Novrith, and then inherited as per a normal noble title). We can cut in the Argent Alliance, provided they don't screw us over in the negotiations.
The head of government (i.e. the Consul - what Moore is) is to be elected by the Representative House and Noble House in the Augustine manner - i.e. they each select a candidate by internal preferential voting. Unlike in Imperium, where there are three Houses, the Sovereign will cast a tie-break between the two if the candidate does not match.
Representation on the Cabinet will be equal between participating organizations, with Imperium's participation through control of Rhuvish foreign affairs rather than a Cabinet position, until the end of the Moore Government at which Imperium will relinquish FA control. Control of the Noble Senate will also be equal between participating organizations, who will be required to broker their own internal representation, but Imperium will expect that any such DU representation be exceedingly from those who supported the proposal concerning it.
Awww...wittwe Nebuwa and Yewaennus want to pway eastewn impewiawist game...
@Grim: OK. This sounds like something the Empire can support. What will happen to Rhuvanland once Imperium relenquishes FA control and the nation gains complete independence, though? I'd like to toy with the idea of a Bachenburg-led monarchy or constitutional monarchy. Perhaps we could even take one off of the Habsburgs and join the cadet house and the Bachenburgs to create a Habsburg-Lorraine-like house.
@Grim: OK. This sounds like something the Empire can support. What will happen to Rhuvanland once Imperium relenquishes FA control and the nation gains complete independence, though? I'd like to toy with the idea of a Bachenburg-led monarchy or constitutional monarchy. Perhaps we could even take one off of the Habsburgs and join the cadet house and the Bachenburgs to create a Habsburg-Lorraine-like house.
The Grim Reaper
TNPer
Why would the Bachenburgs be any more popular than an August cadet dynasty? I'm not too savvy with the Bachenburgs' place in the world.Syrixia:
I mean, ICly, the entire point of the invasion is that Caesar gets /something/ out of it, and temporary control of the foreign affairs of an international pariah with no long-term economy or military development to speak of isn't exactly our ultimate goal. Imperium is going to be putting a lot of money into Rhuvanland - we're not just giving it back to the Bachenburgs because "it's the right thing to do". If anything, it would make more sense to elevate a local former noble family that defected to Imperium (hell, even if they just flew our flag while we walked past one day), instead of one raised in the DU.
We can offer the Bachenburgs a seat in the Noble Senate? It's a hard sell to just marry into the Augustine Dynasty, even if it is a cadet house, and the Bachenburgs haven't ruled in their own right in years.
The Grim Reaper
TNPer
No, I'm saying, I don't understand /why/. I understand this might have been covered in prior RPs with Rhuvanland, but I don't know enough about those RPs to look them up, nor enough about the Bachenburgs to know which parts are relevant.Syrixia:
You have to understand that there needs to be a very, very strong reason for this - this is literally straddling the line between being a proposal that would be seriously considered and a proposal that would be thrown out. The Bachenburgs are not a dynasty that are particularly powerful, nor do I know them to have ever held any power. They're a dynasty that has made residence in a nation that is a member of an organization that has, in the past, been the subject of cold tensions with Imperium (although they have definitely warmed up dramatically), and they're a dynasty that threatens to ridicule Caesar. The Augustine Dynasty has a myriad of potential suitors that would happily marry into the Rhuvish cadet dynasty not just in Imperium, but from the ruling households of various DU and Novrith Pact members.
Retaining power in its own right is a very real competitor to retaining power with the Bachenburgs at a lower cost, because while that may be a favourable trade-off on its own, the ramifications for Imperium's reputation internally tips the balance. This is a serious change of royal policy even considering marrying between August allies, like Plembobria or McMasterdonia.
The Grim Reaper:
No worry, I've been exhausted all week. To be honest the Alliance would be alright provided theres some kind of supervision of what's going on, the Wolvesh have a lot of respect for the Guslants specially so if the Imperium works with Guslantis then the Wolvesh would definitely be a bit happier, also so long as they're allowed to fix the damaged infrastructure and set up some bioreactors to generate clean energy (which was part of the original plan.) Incidentally after the duel might be fun for Sebt and Ceaser to actually talk a little less formally.
The Grim Reaper
TNPer
Yes, at the moment, Imperium is actually basing out of Guslantis, and I believe Boots intended to attach General Akerman to the invasion force itself. So there will be a Guslant presence from the movement onwards.Wolfsea: