Proposal: New Flag and Coat of Arms

Bootsie:
Grosseschnauzer:
Bootsie:
I would like to note that I am building a theme to match the proposed new TNP blue. It's still being constructed over on my own test forum before moving it to the actual TNP test forum to get the always appreciated help of r3n and Elu.
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Bootsie,I'd love it if you can keep it as close to the current skin as possible. The main thing I see that needs fixing is the various links along the top, if you try to set your browser so that is a single line, the whole thing is pretty small and hard to read.

And please keep an eye on the contrasts of colors, if it is all too much light colors, it becomes unreadable for some of us. Medium and dark shades of blue help a lot.
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Thank you, Grosseschnauzer, I'll keep those in mind as I experiment with the skin. I too enjoy the current one, as it really embraces TNP's atmosphere, but if we change the flag, the light blue makes little sense as the main color. I'm just looking to darken the main color of the forum, adjust the banner to match the proposed flag, and turn every instance of the current flag to the proposed one, and just make it flow with what the proposed flag wants to bring. I'm not sure how to bring the links onto a single line. Maybe a slightly smaller banner?

I also support one last on-site poll.
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My thought would be that the line of text for the links be a little further down so there's more white space relatively speaking to work with . In layout sense, the text being horizontally spread out would allow a slight increase in front height, and still have all the links on one line and not be so small on a screen to have them as one line of text.
 
I think it's been long enough. Talking has slowed down and things have gotten to the point where

I motion for a vote.
 
Syrixia:
I think it's been long enough. Talking has slowed down and things have gotten to the point where

I motion for a vote.
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Hey mate, lets set one last poll onsite as Elu said, we can do that this week and next week I'll second your motion. So lets tell SillyString or the executive officer if there's any in charge of ingame polls, to set that up to see regional support of the current version compared to the new version.
 
Lennart:
Syrixia:
I think it's been long enough. Talking has slowed down and things have gotten to the point where

I motion for a vote.
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Hey mate, lets set one last poll onsite as Elu said, we can do that this week and next week I'll second your motion. So lets tell SillyString or the executive officer if there's any in charge of ingame polls, to set that up to see regional support of the current version compared to the new version.
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Ingame polls feels more Home-Affairsy. I'd talk to Tomb.
 
Syrixia:
I think it's been long enough. Talking has slowed down and things have gotten to the point where

I motion for a vote.
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Only the proposer (Lennart) may move to vote, unless you wish that to be taken as a motion for an immediate vote, in which case the proposer's agreement is needed nonetheless.
 
Concerning the onsite poll:

I set the poll 2 days and 14 hours ago. As you can see, the support for the second option has been massive:

6hqlif.png

If we were concerned about puppet wanking, then here's the WA support, still very obvious:

256wdic.png

And a list of voters:

28juo07.png

Due to time restrictions (the WAD needs to put another poll in place, and I shouldn't have set it to last for a week in the first place, three days seems to be the standard for this thing, I'll keep that in mind in the future) this poll will be closed later today. Anyway, a substantial change in the outcome is more than unlikely.

Now I can say: I motion this for a vote!

(also remember that the proposal says it will be valid from the 28th of November on, the change wouldn't be immediate)
 
I third the motion to vote! I want to be known to stand behind this new design from the beginning.
 
There is no need to second the motion, unless it is a motion for an immediate vote, and I see no indication of that. The Bill is now in formal debate, which shall last for five days, after which a vote shall be scheduled.
 
Mr. Speaker, IIRC, members can move to shorten formal debate, and if so, I so move.

The reason is to allow as much time as possible for Bootsie to work on the coordinated change that would be needed for the forum skin, which in actually is a forum administration matter, but I's like to make surre all those details are completed by the time this Bill would take effect.
 
It is correct that formal debate can be shortened without need to hold an immediate vote, such shortening of formal debate is done on request of the proposer of a Bill, if Mr Speaker, or in this case myself as Deputy Speaker, believe that shortening formal debate would not unduly deprive members of opportunity to consider a Bill and contribute to debate.

I am of the opinion, in respect of this Bill, that consideration has been lengthy and inclusive to an extent well beyond what would be necessary to justify shortening formal debate, and I would do so, if requested by the proposer.
 
Zyvetskistaahn:
It is correct that formal debate can be shortened without need to hold an immediate vote, such shortening of formal debate is done on request of the proposer of a Bill, if Mr Speaker, or in this case myself as Deputy Speaker, believe that shortening formal debate would not unduly deprive members of opportunity to consider a Bill and contribute to debate.

I am of the opinion, in respect of this Bill, that consideration has been lengthy and inclusive to an extent well beyond what would be necessary to justify shortening formal debate, and I would do so, if requested by the proposer.
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I request the shortening of formal debate period, as I would like to move to a vote as soon as possible.

Thank you.
 
Counted the votes. So far it's like 11 Nay VS 20 Aye. This is gonna be closer than I thought!
 
Given that it is an bill to propose a law and not a constitutional amendment, and given it has the support of the Delegate, I wouldn't be overly concerned.
 
People are still very attached to the old one. As much as i like the new one, I admit I am too and wasn't as sure as I thought I was when it came to voting time.
 
mcmasterdonia:
People are still very attached to the old one. As much as i like the new one, I admit I am too and wasn't as sure as I thought I was when it came to voting time.
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Me too. Perhaps we should make a Cultural Icon Hall, where we can display old iterations of our symbols. :)

Also: LENNART YOU FIXED THE COLORS THE COLORS ARE THE SAME NOW. :hug:
 
Syrixia:
Everything needs a change once in a while.
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Comments like these almost make me want to start campaigning against this.

No, change is not necessary for change's own sake. Change is appropriate when it is change for the better.
 
Eluvatar:
Syrixia:
Everything needs a change once in a while.
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Comments like these almost make me want to start campaigning against this.

No, change is not necessary for change's own sake. Change is appropriate when it is change for the better.
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I don't think that was a very well thought out comment (Syrixia's) , just like my comments attacking the old flag's flaws rather aggressively (probably earning Flemingovia's hate forever)... at the end of the day it's only the proposal that matters.

I'm also attached to the old symbols and they will always be our symbols. We must show a solid, fresh face at all times, but old symbols are in our hearts and history. I was also attached to the "century" theme in game, I was attached to Arsenal's crest, unchanged for more than 50 years, until it changed to a sharper, brighter, simpler version but still keeping the main elements, and with them more than a century of tradition.

Anyone keeps files for older versions of the flag? The Ministry could be interested in having a gallery of old and new symbols if we've got enough files and dates to show.
 
SillyString:
mcmasterdonia:
People are still very attached to the old one. As much as i like the new one, I admit I am too and wasn't as sure as I thought I was when it came to voting time.
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Me too. Perhaps we should make a Cultural Icon Hall, where we can display old iterations of our symbols. :)

Also: LENNART YOU FIXED THE COLORS THE COLORS ARE THE SAME NOW. :hug:
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That's a nice idea. I'm still considering it, but I think I'm okay with the change.

Eluvatar:
Syrixia:
Everything needs a change once in a while.
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Comments like these almost make me want to start campaigning against this.

No, change is not necessary for change's own sake. Change is appropriate when it is change for the better.
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Agreed. To quote a character from one of our favourite series of books/movies.

"Every Government headmaster and headmistress of Hogwarts The North Pacific has brought something new to the wheighty task of governing this historic school region, and that is as it should be, for without progress there will be stagnation and decay. There again, progress for progress's sake must be discouraged, for our tried and tested traditions often require no tinkering. A balance, then, between old and new, between permanence and change, between tradition and innovation because some changes will be for the better, while others will come, in the fullness of time, to be recognised as errors of judgement. Meanwhile, some old habits will be retained, and rightly so, whereas others, outmoded and outworn, must be abandoned. Let us move forward, then, into a new era of openness, effectiveness and accountability, intent on preserving what ought to be preserved, perfecting what needs to be perfected, and pruning wherever we find practices that ought to be prohibited."

Lennart:
Eluvatar:
Syrixia:
Everything needs a change once in a while.
Click to expand...

Comments like these almost make me want to start campaigning against this.

No, change is not necessary for change's own sake. Change is appropriate when it is change for the better.
Click to expand...
I don't think that was a very well thought out comment (Syrixia's) , just like my comments attacking the old flag's flaws rather aggressively (probably earning Flemingovia's hate forever)... at the end of the day it's only the proposal that matters.

I'm also attached to the old symbols and they will always be our symbols. We must show a solid, fresh face at all times, but old symbols are in our hearts and history. I was also attached to the "century" theme in game, I was attached to Arsenal's crest, unchanged for more than 50 years, until it changed to a sharper, brighter, simpler version but still keeping the main elements, and with them more than a century of tradition.

Anyone keeps files for older versions of the flag? The Ministry could be interested in having a gallery of old and new symbols if we've got enough files and dates to show.
Click to expand...

They might be on the forum image server thingy (descriptive I know). I'll have a look later. Older TNPers might have the ancient versions which could be interesting to display.
 
Mcmasterdonia, I want a divorce. You just quoted Umbridge.
 
Myroria:
If we're changing the coat-of-arms and flag, can we change the back-alley-tattoo-parlor font in our ministry seals while we're at it?
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I second this. We need something modern. Like, Trebuchet. Or Geneva.
 
I voted no because, while I like the new design a lot, I can't bring myself to support changing it.

Myroria:
If we're changing the coat-of-arms and flag, can we change the back-alley-tattoo-parlor font in our ministry seals while we're at it?
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:horror:
 
Urgh, Plemby now I want to vote no. [me] is indecisive on this issue.

Also haters going to hate. The Seals are Awesome(tm).

Syrixia jumps on the change everything bandwagon :P
 
Around 40 people voting! Thank you very much everyone involved on the debate and voting.

The seals will be changed if we get to improve the current ones. Submit any ideas on the C&E subforum, we'll work on them, as well as we will create a special place for older versions of our symbols. Please share your "ancient" versions files if you've got them, we need to keep documenting our history!

Thanks TNP
 
Lennart:
Around 40 people voting! Thank you very much everyone involved on the debate and voting.

The seals will be changed if we get to improve the current ones. Submit any ideas on the C&E subforum, we'll work on them, as well as we will create a special place for older versions of our symbols. Please share your "ancient" versions files if you've got them, we need to keep documenting our history!

Thanks TNP
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If you all can PM me the seals, I could possibly make one with the new CoA.
 
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