Proposal: New Flag and Coat of Arms

Well, I had also stated several times in the past that, even though it is functional, our coat of arms could do with a moderate update. In particular, it ought to be simplified (laurels and the gold layer in the shield be removed at least). I mentioned these before Lennart started working on his redesigns, so you can't attribute them to confirmation bias.

I believe a few others had expressed similar opinions, both before and after Lennart presented his designs.
 
You don't have to complain about the older design in order to prefer a new one and/or help creating that new one...
 
I actually think the gold border more clearly defines the edge of the shield, which without the gold border doesn't feel as well defined to me.
 
Eluvatar:
I actually think the gold border more clearly defines the edge of the shield, which without the gold border doesn't feel as well defined to me.
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That's right. I think without the border it looks also less complete as Pri said, even if the blue field was bigger.
 
The gold border makes the castle look blurry, almost. If the gold border is gonna be on there, the castle should have rough edges.
 
Syrixia:
The gold border makes the castle look blurry, almost. If the gold border is gonna be on there, the castle should have rough edges.
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Yes, I was wondering about the same thing...
 
I agree - with the gold border that is itself edged in black, the castle lines don't look like they fit with the seal. Maybe they could be darkened for some contrast?
 
I think the problem's already present in the version before the golden bordered shield, with the points of the compass rose.
 
Regarding the shield border, I am not sure where people are seeing a contrast border. The contrast is fine without the border, given the colors of the shield.

If anything, the contrast gets worse, if you consider that the compass thing has the same golden border.
 
The contrast between the shield and the black parts feels more important than the contrast between the shield border and the compass rose's border. The thin black lines are more effective at separating lighter elements, in any case, than darker ones.

Is it just an optical illusion or are the lines in the new version's mural crown actually lighter?
 
SillyString:
I agree - with the gold border that is itself edged in black, the castle lines don't look like they fit with the seal. Maybe they could be darkened for some contrast?
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This^
 
I don't see the issue between the scroll/castle/whatever and the gold border. If it's the border and the scroll, it's not fuzzy, it seems to be where it's been erased and shoddily replaced.

Sorry if Im misunderstanding the issue ;-;
 
Minor issue, not a biggie.

I did go over to Old Blue, and while I didn't find the voting thread there, I did find a post from Thel, who stated he had designed the coat of arms and flag ovr a year before (early 2004) and they were adopted in June 2005, when I supervised the debate and vote under the original governmental system post-Pixiedance. Thel did not remember the reasons for the element choices he made, and others speculated, but Thel did not comment on that one way or the other.

But I think the current version of the proposed modernization is defensible and can be explained, and I would ask Lennart to include and explanation of the symbolism of the elements as part of the text of the bill and the amended Legal Code provisions. The use of the gold is actually simple enough I would think -- something along the lines of representing the hopes and aspirations of the Nations of The North Pacific, and so on.
 
Grosseschnauzer:
But I think the current version of the proposed modernization is defensible and can be explained, and I would ask Lennart to include and explanation of the symbolism of the elements as part of the text of the bill and the amended Legal Code provisions.
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Beautiful idea.
 
OK, edited OP with the following updates:

-Higher contrast for the crown.
-Added a heraldic description: "Barry wavy of four argent and azure, on a chief azure the North Star or and argent, the shield ensigned with a Mural Crown or", that may be alternatively worded as "Barry wavy of four silver and blue, on a chief blue the North Star gold and silver, the shield ensigned with a Mural Crown gold".
-re-arranged the numbers to place said description immediately after the Coat of Arms is presented.
-Capitalised all the "t's" on all the "the's", so the region it's now consistently referred as "The North Pacific"


Grosses' idea about symbolism is great, but I'm not making up that symbolism myself. To my understanding, TNP stands for Peace and Democracy and it seems acceptable to think that's what the White and Blue colours represent, respectively. But I 'd like to hear more about this from other TNPers... Ideas?
 
No matter what design we end up with, I will reiterate my earlier proposal that we make sure to create a fully vectorized version of it. Having a vectorized version means that we can rescale the design at any size we want, without loss of contrast. It also means that it is much easier for our members to edit the design, or use it in their own drawings. I speak from personal experience, as I've found the vectorized version of the current coat of arms incredibly helpful for the various designs I've made for TNP.

To clarify here, a vectorized version does not mean exporting the current rasterized design to an SVG file, as in that case all that happens is that the pixel raster is embedded into the file as is, without any vectorization.

Once the design has been finalized, I can help create the vectorized version. Until then, I wouldn't worry too much about the loss of contrast in the crown. This is an artifact of the raster editing process, and it'll go away once we have a vectorized design.

#saynotogoldenborder
 
I don't mind the gold border. I do still hate the color variance between the two, but it looks like I'm going to have to just... live with it. :P
 
r3naissanc3r:
No matter what design we end up with, I will reiterate my earlier proposal that we make sure to create a fully vectorized version of it. Having a vectorized version means that we can rescale the design at any size we want, without loss of contrast. It also means that it is much easier for our members to edit the design, or use it in their own drawings. I speak from personal experience, as I've found the vectorized version of the current coat of arms incredibly helpful for the various designs I've made for TNP.

To clarify here, a vectorized version does not mean exporting the current rasterized design to an SVG file, as in that case all that happens is that the pixel raster is embedded into the file as is, without any vectorization.

Once the design has been finalized, I can help create the vectorized version. Until then, I wouldn't worry too much about the loss of contrast in the crown. This is an artifact of the raster editing process, and it'll go away once we have a vectorized design.

#saynotogoldenborder
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From what I understand Lennart is actually editing a vector image, they just haven't found a convenient way of sharing that with us.
 
Yeah, I'm running a decent piece of software capable of actually tracing the bitmap, choosing a few parameters in the way and not just exporting in a different format. But I don't dismiss r3n's help since he might run better software. So, once we decide (if we decide) what design we're keeping we'll compare.

Also, on my quest to keep some good features from the current CoA I've brought back the gap! and this time it's symmetrical!

Also the froggy-toe balls are more like in the current official design
 
Eluvatar:
From what I understand Lennart is actually editing a vector image, they just haven't found a convenient way of sharing that with us.
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Lennart:
Yeah, I'm running a decent piece of software capable of actually tracing the bitmap, choosing a few parameters in the way and not just exporting in a different format. But I don't dismiss r3n's help since he might run better software. So, once we decide (if we decide) what design we're keeping we'll compare.
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I was actually under the impression that Lennart had said he didn't have access to a vector graphics software. Probably I was misremembering.

I'm happy to leave it to Lennart, then. I'm sure he'll do a great job.
 
r3naissanc3r:
Eluvatar:
From what I understand Lennart is actually editing a vector image, they just haven't found a convenient way of sharing that with us.
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Lennart:
Yeah, I'm running a decent piece of software capable of actually tracing the bitmap, choosing a few parameters in the way and not just exporting in a different format. But I don't dismiss r3n's help since he might run better software. So, once we decide (if we decide) what design we're keeping we'll compare.
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I was actually under the impression that Lennart had said he didn't have access to a vector graphics software. Probably I was misremembering.

I'm happy to leave it to Lennart, then. I'm sure he'll do a great job.
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Just out of curiosity, what vector software do you use? because it can make a difference.

I'll let you know if I need help, thank you, r3n.
 
I mostly use Inkscape and Corel, and often also Illustrator. It depends on the task at hand, as they are complementary in many ways. Sometimes I may end up using all three to get the desired result :P .
 
r3naissanc3r:
I mostly use Inkscape and Corel, and often also Illustrator. It depends on the task at hand, as they are complementary in many ways. Sometimes I may end up using all three to get the desired result :P .
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Good, then I hope you don't mind me PMing you about my SVGs. I've had good results before, but you've got better tools, it could really make a difference.
 
Syrixia:
Let's not let this die, guys! We've come so far.
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Yeah, I will propose this to a vote soon, it seems there won't any new suggestions anytime soon, and I'm personally happy with the proposal as it is now.
 
Could we have one last onsite poll, contrasting the current flag and the proposed new verson one against the other, first?
 
I would like to note that I am building a theme to match the proposed new TNP blue. It's still being constructed over on my own test forum before moving it to the actual TNP test forum to get the always appreciated help of r3n and Elu.
 
Bootsie:
I would like to note that I am building a theme to match the proposed new TNP blue. It's still being constructed over on my own test forum before moving it to the actual TNP test forum to get the always appreciated help of r3n and Elu.
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Bootsie,I'd love it if you can keep it as close to the current skin as possible. The main thing I see that needs fixing is the various links along the top, if you try to set your browser so that is a single line, the whole thing is pretty small and hard to read.

And please keep an eye on the contrasts of colors, if it is all too much light colors, it becomes unreadable for some of us. Medium and dark shades of blue help a lot.
 
Grosseschnauzer:
Bootsie:
I would like to note that I am building a theme to match the proposed new TNP blue. It's still being constructed over on my own test forum before moving it to the actual TNP test forum to get the always appreciated help of r3n and Elu.
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Bootsie,I'd love it if you can keep it as close to the current skin as possible. The main thing I see that needs fixing is the various links along the top, if you try to set your browser so that is a single line, the whole thing is pretty small and hard to read.

And please keep an eye on the contrasts of colors, if it is all too much light colors, it becomes unreadable for some of us. Medium and dark shades of blue help a lot.
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Thank you, Grosseschnauzer, I'll keep those in mind as I experiment with the skin. I too enjoy the current one, as it really embraces TNP's atmosphere, but if we change the flag, the light blue makes little sense as the main color. I'm just looking to darken the main color of the forum, adjust the banner to match the proposed flag, and turn every instance of the current flag to the proposed one, and just make it flow with what the proposed flag wants to bring. I'm not sure how to bring the links onto a single line. Maybe a slightly smaller banner?

I also support one last on-site poll.
 
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