- Discord
- COE#7110
If several alternate versions were to be created, I would entertain the notion of an alternate form of voting besides an up or down vote on a single proposal.
Proposal: New Flag and Coat of Arms
- Thread starter Lennart
- Start date
Lennart
TNPer
That version was chosen among several, not by the RA, but polls forumside and in-game. 20 TNPers voted forum-side and like 90 in-game. The in-game poll included the official arms, the forum-side poll didn't cause it's purpose was to decide which design to move here as a proposal.Crushing Our Enemies:
Evolution of the designs>> http://forum.thenorthpacific.org/topic/7439147
Forum-side poll>> http://forum.thenorthpacific.org/topic/7442456
In-game poll>> http://www.nationstates.net/page=poll/p=31676
Cheers
- TNP Nation
- McMasterdonia
Edit: I just saw Syrixia's post.
I quite like this one. I would be happy with the laurels being removed as suggested by SillyString. I think I prefer the darker blue used in Lennart's design over the light-blue used in the original and this example though. The same with the different colour of the crown on the top.
Just made this. What do you guys think?
I quite like this one. I would be happy with the laurels being removed as suggested by SillyString. I think I prefer the darker blue used in Lennart's design over the light-blue used in the original and this example though. The same with the different colour of the crown on the top.
Wow, I didn't realize the in-game poll was so lopsided!Lennart:
That's a big preference!
Taking into account McM's post and the two posts after it, what if we were to, say, make a hybrid of Lennart's CoA and the original, using the sea colors, lack of the laurels, and the North Star from Lennart's and keeping everything else?
And if you guys like that idea, what do we do with the crown castle? Should we use the new or old variant? I think the new variant is a bit better; the old one definitely looks really 2005.
And if you guys like that idea, what do we do with the crown castle? Should we use the new or old variant? I think the new variant is a bit better; the old one definitely looks really 2005.
Grosseschnauzer
TNPer
get rid of the red, period, and use different shades of blue, as seas usually are in real life and I'll be much kinder about changes.
As to the star, it needs a context to show that it is Polaris, the North Star, perhaps with the tail end of the big dipper as much smaller stars.
As to the star, it needs a context to show that it is Polaris, the North Star, perhaps with the tail end of the big dipper as much smaller stars.
- TNP Nation
- North_Elegarth
- Discord
- Elegarth#8848
While I don't have any hard feelings towards the currently proposed symbols, I don't really find a need for changing something that is already symbolic... I am not always a fan of change and this is one of those cases.
Symbols should change only when the spirit of what they represent has changed so much that it is long gone... I'm weird like that I guess.
Symbols should change only when the spirit of what they represent has changed so much that it is long gone... I'm weird like that I guess.
- TNP Nation
- McMasterdonia
Look at the current coat of arms Grosse. It already has red in it. The red in the new one is not that much more (if at all) compared to the old one. The red was not added out of nowhere.Grosseschnauzer:
The blue in the old coat of arms is not the colour of seas as they usually are either. The darker blue used by Lennart looks better IMO, others are free to disagree.
Syrixia:
I like the new variant better. And I'd be interested to see what you come up with on that front.
Elegarth:
I somewhat agree, but I'm still interested to see what they come up with.
Grosseschnauzer
TNPer
If we're going to make a change, then a star on a dark blue field, reflecting Polaris in the night sky, would be a vast improvementover having a star on a red field. JMO.mcmasterdonia:
As to the color of the ocean, I grew up in Miami, and had plenty of opportunity to see the various hues of blue in the seas (the Atlantic) and the tropical sky. There's nothing saying that variations of light, medium and dark blues cannot be used; and if you look at the forum masthead we now use, you will see there are various shades of blue and carries out the nautical theme quite appropriately.
Lennart
TNPer
OK, I might be interested in making more designs, based on what we're debating.
Grosses opinion of getting rid of the red field is something we can easily play with, and makes sense since the sky is more often blue than it is red; featuring other stars is not so nice in practice, and also what he thinks of sea blue colour is kinda true, I'm from an ickle island in North Africa, and after many years I've seen many shades of water from brownish to crystalline turquoise lol. I took this blue (and red) from the British flag, no mysteries on that.
edit: ok, this is gorgeous:
so it turns out Grosses what absolutely right:
Grosses opinion of getting rid of the red field is something we can easily play with, and makes sense since the sky is more often blue than it is red; featuring other stars is not so nice in practice, and also what he thinks of sea blue colour is kinda true, I'm from an ickle island in North Africa, and after many years I've seen many shades of water from brownish to crystalline turquoise lol. I took this blue (and red) from the British flag, no mysteries on that.
edit: ok, this is gorgeous:
so it turns out Grosses what absolutely right:
D
Deleted User (Guest)
Guest
That is beautiful. Just stunning.
- TNP Nation
- McMasterdonia
Indeed. I love it.
Grosseschnauzer
TNPer
This I can live with. It refreshes the flag and the cost of arms, honors our traditional blue and yes, I am pleased with it.
Breaking News: Grosse is pleased. The world is shocked.
Um.... the blue in the large seal looks more purple to me, and not the same as the (better) color on the flag. Can that be fixed? 
It may be because of color profiles. I haven't checked whether the file Lennart created is tagged. If it isn't, then I would strongly suggest that a color profile is added to it.Syrixia:#colorblindconfirmedLennart:it's... exactly the same colourSillyString:Um.... the blue in the large seal looks more purple to me, and not the same as the (better) color on the flag. Can that be fixed?
I would also strongly suggest making an SVG version of the new design, if we decide to officially adopt it. I can help with the SVG editing once there is a final design.
I really like this and this design. I'm probably in the minority by having a small preference for the design with the red, as it creates a nice contrast - it makes the design more lively. However, I would have no issue going for the all-blue design.
I strongly dislike adding the star on the current coat of arms. We need to make the coat of arms simpler, not even busier. I also prefer the current design to one that adds the star and removes the laurels. If we stick with the original, I would suggest at least removing the laurels, while not adding anything else.
Lennart
TNPer
you rude little person*!Syrixia:#colorblindconfirmedLennart:it's... exactly the same colourSillyString:Um.... the blue in the large seal looks more purple to me, and not the same as the (better) color on the flag. Can that be fixed?
just kidding, but yeah, monitor settings or even the illusion caused by neighbouring colours. Also even if she was colourblind, that's no problem, since a good heraldic emblem should be easily readable even by colourblind people. That's one of many reasons why I don't like fake heraldry.
Edit: r3n: I kind of agree with you. I like contrast and red gives the arms some prominence on the flag, but the all blue design is more ... elegant? that might be the word.
Also, thanks for offering your help. I can generate SVG versions, so that's not a problem.
* I don't want a warning lol
D
Deleted User (Guest)
Guest
Um, can I give a friendly request that we don't call people "rude little bastard(s)" please? Joke or not, it's not exactly appropriate language. Thanks 
Look, I opened both images in a photo editor, because I thought I was crazy too! But I'm not: the blue on the seal is #410084 and on the flag is #1D2C7D!
Edit: I've always had the same complaint about the official flag and seal. The blue in just the seal is #0000BE, and in the flag it's a purply #5C00D0. I'm not crazy, or colorblind!
(Alternatively, even if I were seeing it differently, it would be the rest of y'all who'd be colorblind thinking they're the same.)
Edit: I've always had the same complaint about the official flag and seal. The blue in just the seal is #0000BE, and in the flag it's a purply #5C00D0. I'm not crazy, or colorblind!
(Alternatively, even if I were seeing it differently, it would be the rest of y'all who'd be colorblind thinking they're the same.)
Lennart
TNPer
In that case, I wonder what happened since I used the colour picker literally from the flag to the CoA.
I imagine the software I'm using is not very accurate or the vector software I use sometimes to remove some jagged edges could've altered the colours slightly... But I honestly couldn't tell the difference and still can't to be honest.
I imagine the software I'm using is not very accurate or the vector software I use sometimes to remove some jagged edges could've altered the colours slightly... But I honestly couldn't tell the difference and still can't to be honest.
Grosseschnauzer
TNPer
SillyString, yes I can barely see the differences in the shades of blue, but it is barely discernible. (And no, I didn't use the color codes to see the distinction between the two shades.) "Royal" blue tends to have that tinge of violet in it, medium blue does not.
(And if anyone is wondering, yes, I am blessed with the ability to distinguish shades of a color, and to remember them. (So when I am shopping and need to match a certain color, I do quite well in matching.) I may have scarred retinas, but that didn't affect my ability to distinhuish shades.
(And if anyone is wondering, yes, I am blessed with the ability to distinguish shades of a color, and to remember them. (So when I am shopping and need to match a certain color, I do quite well in matching.) I may have scarred retinas, but that didn't affect my ability to distinhuish shades.
Looks great!Lennart:Out curiosity, SillyString, if you have the time, do you see this one below the same as the ones above (slightly purplish)?
Also, Syrixia, there's no rush, I don't second this to a vote yet, I need a bit more input and maybe some more people can get involved.
Thanks everyone!
Lennart
TNPer
Thanks specially SilliString and Grosseschnauzer, I just couldn't see it!
I'll be careful as I make a higher quality version, I'll avoid the "purplish" shade.
edit: these have the correct colour on them
I've got massive versions of them, and SVG versions, but tinypic wouldn't let me upload SVG.
here's a massive bitmap instead:
I'll be careful as I make a higher quality version, I'll avoid the "purplish" shade.
edit: these have the correct colour on them
I've got massive versions of them, and SVG versions, but tinypic wouldn't let me upload SVG.
here's a massive bitmap instead:
D
Deleted User (Guest)
Guest
Nicely done. You could also try Imgur. (I don't mind hosting the larger files on a website of mine if you'd like?)
Very nice design on the part of Grosseschnauzer and Lenny. I agree though, we don't need to call to vote something we're not sure will achieve a near unanimous vote, as this is a regional symbol, and not as easy to brush off, like a law, as it is almost everywhere on the forum and in-game TNP. I do believe we're getting close though. I don't know what more to add. Seems beautiful.
They still look like completely different colors to me! I have no idea what's going on, but do any of you see differences between the following swatches? The first set is what the proposed seal and flag colors are to me, and the second set are what the current seal and flag colors are.
....Except now that I preview them, this isn't right. The color I eyedroppered from the seal and turned into a square is now more purple than it looks, and the color I eyedroppered from the flag and turned into a square now looks like the purple color of the seal, not the color of the flag!!! What the fuck!!!
Could it be saving it as a PNG that causes the weirdness and color shifting?
Edit: .jpg has the same problem as .png, looking too purple. Note that this is not not not how it looks when I make the stupid file, and it's not even how it looks when I first upload it to photobucket. It looks blue and pretty, not blurple. But when I go to load the image directly, rather than just looking at the "upload succeeded" preview.... it gets purply!
Will keep testing.
....Except now that I preview them, this isn't right. The color I eyedroppered from the seal and turned into a square is now more purple than it looks, and the color I eyedroppered from the flag and turned into a square now looks like the purple color of the seal, not the color of the flag!!! What the fuck!!!
Could it be saving it as a PNG that causes the weirdness and color shifting?
Edit: .jpg has the same problem as .png, looking too purple. Note that this is not not not how it looks when I make the stupid file, and it's not even how it looks when I first upload it to photobucket. It looks blue and pretty, not blurple. But when I go to load the image directly, rather than just looking at the "upload succeeded" preview.... it gets purply!
Will keep testing.
Lennart
TNPer
This time I took care and made sure that all of the blue is #1D2C7D.
I can tell the difference between the boxes you've attached, but don't recognise the first purple colour on the seal or the flag.
Can this have anything to do with your hardware and rendering software, browser, or OS and such? I'm on a Windows machine, running Opera and I'm using Vector Magic and Paint.net, both programs tell me the colour is indeed #1D2C7D, and when I take a screenshot and pick the hex code from it, it tells me it's #1D2C7D. My android phone seems to render exactly the same on Opera mobile and Chrome.
I don't know what happened before, but the last posted and uploaded design, I really made sure they are the same blue colour, #1D2C7D.
Hope someone else with some expertise (r3n?) can maybe help?
I can tell the difference between the boxes you've attached, but don't recognise the first purple colour on the seal or the flag.
Can this have anything to do with your hardware and rendering software, browser, or OS and such? I'm on a Windows machine, running Opera and I'm using Vector Magic and Paint.net, both programs tell me the colour is indeed #1D2C7D, and when I take a screenshot and pick the hex code from it, it tells me it's #1D2C7D. My android phone seems to render exactly the same on Opera mobile and Chrome.
I don't know what happened before, but the last posted and uploaded design, I really made sure they are the same blue colour, #1D2C7D.
Hope someone else with some expertise (r3n?) can maybe help?