While I cannot speak for Siwale, personally, prior to making my response (which was approximately 4 minutes after yours), I searched the nation up on Nationstates, searched their activity history to see how long they were in the NP for and then returned to make the post. In between, I was chatting on Discord.
[SC - Passed] Repeal: Commend Solorni
- Thread starter bowloftoast
- Start date
- Status
- TNP Nation
- Kranostav
- Discord
- Tlomz
Let's keep nontopic chatter to a minimum please, and it should be noted that everyone should be posting their current WA nation so as to make vote checking easy.
Especially nations that are new or have yet to post. I'll be going through and vote checking this one in a bit to prevent illegal votes.
Especially nations that are new or have yet to post. I'll be going through and vote checking this one in a bit to prevent illegal votes.
Against.
What Rach did was wrong but it was definitely OOC.
Also regarding Ghost's mounment statement, Rach did some bad stuff but Rach has done a lot of good. This doesn't have to shadow over their achievements.
Finally, I would like to know Balder's stance on this. Espeically since i'm The North Pacifican Ambassador to Balder.
Nation isn't currently WA but is WAA registered as Dinoium
What Rach did was wrong but it was definitely OOC.
Also regarding Ghost's mounment statement, Rach did some bad stuff but Rach has done a lot of good. This doesn't have to shadow over their achievements.
Finally, I would like to know Balder's stance on this. Espeically since i'm The North Pacifican Ambassador to Balder.
Nation isn't currently WA but is WAA registered as Dinoium
- Pronouns
- He/Him, They/Them
"What Rach did was wrong but it was definitely OOC."
Honestly, this is such a bad argument, especially considering some of the people making it had no problems voting to repeal Unibots commend for ooc reasons, or the condemns of various raider regions and players for ooc reasons.
Honestly, this is such a bad argument, especially considering some of the people making it had no problems voting to repeal Unibots commend for ooc reasons, or the condemns of various raider regions and players for ooc reasons.
- TNP Nation
- Kranostav
- Discord
- Tlomz
- TNP Nation
- Veniyerris
- Discord
- BMWSurfer#1965
Changing my vote to for
Some of us were not a party to that vote.
- Discord
- COE#7110
That's bullshit. I looked at all 10 repeals of commendations of individual nations, and none of them were for OOC reasons. I specifically looked at Unibot's, and honestly, it is probably the best repeal of a commend ever, and I would vote for it again. It also does not disguise any OOC behavior, but focuses entirely on in-game stuff. Here it is: https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?p=24935151#p24935151
- Pronouns
- He/Him, They/Them
Excuse me whilst I laugh a bit. Lol.
The author of that repeal has literally said multiple times that the reasoning was bullshit:
Unibots repeal was for OOC reasons. The predator repeals were for ooc reasons. The line y'all are taking because you liked Solorni a bit is reflecting on all of TNP and reinforcing the idea that we don't take ooc misconduct seriously.
Not even Europeia or Balder are voting against this. We are literally alone, walking down a path that has both allies and enemies wondering just what the fuck you are thinking. I'm wondering the same thing.
^You have a point that we’re voting alone like this and this sends the wrong message to the random observer who’s not here. I personally believe we should vote Abstain, since this is bad optics that TNP is the only outlier No vote. However I disagree with the rest of any insinuations.
I agree with only the “we’re sending the wrong message” and bad optics part and change my vote to Abstain. However I disagree and protest about any “not taking OOC misconduct seriously” claims on behalf anyone who voted against for reasons other than those claims. I am sure that’s not the case because I feel empathy after talking to one of them.
My, probably unusual, opinion is that I feel it’s wrong for this Solorni matter to be voted on at an international stage, and that this matter is not a judgment to be given as a court of public opinion/mass mobs. Or the random WA noob in a backwater baby region.
If anything, it’s better to just petition the mods separately to delete the original Commend, not have the world vote on this. Because then uninvolved random people from NS will see these reasons as bullshit, dig deep and find the OOC reasons. This WA vote is basically an advertisement to an admin ban.
And yeah it’s just awkward when we consider that the end result has already been achieved: Solorni’s already received her bans, and already quit everything. What’s left? Keep bringing strangers' attention to this RL accusation? Man this is complicated.
Disclaimer: my only point is, i think many of us do take OOC misconduct seriously. You can’t determine that anyone does not, based on a WA vote, which opens a potential can of worms. For example, some people(I think Guy?) believe this WA resolution will make NationStates get sued in real life for defamation in Australia, although it’s very unlikely for obvious reason.
It may be best to just Abstain and stay out of this risky vote entirely. It will pass with or without us.
(Disclaimer 2: I’m not an expert, this is the first time I have to think about any of this stuff, so my beliefs are subject to change. I’m conflicted too, so don’t hold what I say as gospel til I’m sure.)
I agree with only the “we’re sending the wrong message” and bad optics part and change my vote to Abstain. However I disagree and protest about any “not taking OOC misconduct seriously” claims on behalf anyone who voted against for reasons other than those claims. I am sure that’s not the case because I feel empathy after talking to one of them.
My, probably unusual, opinion is that I feel it’s wrong for this Solorni matter to be voted on at an international stage, and that this matter is not a judgment to be given as a court of public opinion/mass mobs. Or the random WA noob in a backwater baby region.
If anything, it’s better to just petition the mods separately to delete the original Commend, not have the world vote on this. Because then uninvolved random people from NS will see these reasons as bullshit, dig deep and find the OOC reasons. This WA vote is basically an advertisement to an admin ban.
And yeah it’s just awkward when we consider that the end result has already been achieved: Solorni’s already received her bans, and already quit everything. What’s left? Keep bringing strangers' attention to this RL accusation? Man this is complicated.
Disclaimer: my only point is, i think many of us do take OOC misconduct seriously. You can’t determine that anyone does not, based on a WA vote, which opens a potential can of worms. For example, some people(I think Guy?) believe this WA resolution will make NationStates get sued in real life for defamation in Australia, although it’s very unlikely for obvious reason.
It may be best to just Abstain and stay out of this risky vote entirely. It will pass with or without us.
(Disclaimer 2: I’m not an expert, this is the first time I have to think about any of this stuff, so my beliefs are subject to change. I’m conflicted too, so don’t hold what I say as gospel til I’m sure.)
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And we wonder why WALL is becoming less effective, as Madjack claimed. This. This is why.
We're alienating our allies by acting like overly technical stooges and voting against. Let's think about the bigger picture here.
We're alienating our allies by acting like overly technical stooges and voting against. Let's think about the bigger picture here.
- TNP Nation
- Aenglaland
- Discord
- thecatofwar
Changing my vote to Abstain
- TNP Nation
- Kranostav
- Discord
- Tlomz
Threads like these make me thinks polls would work better.
- TNP Nation
- Kranostav
- Discord
- Tlomz
Our Delegate consistently has the largest voting power in the World Assembly. It is hardly abnormal for our vote to be noted.
Similarly, it is quite typical for a number of players (including from allied regions) to be opposed to our vote in the World Assembly whether it be in the GA or the SC. I am hardly surprised there would be members criticizing our votes now.
I typically don't believe we have considered that we are being criticized by members in regions allied to us and I do not see a reason to consider it on a proposal like this. If it was a proposal to Condemn The South Pacific or to Liberate Stargate (after a raid), etc. I could see a better case being made for it.
Also for reference, are you able to provide me with a source on those criticisms?
Did you miss this?
And as a note, the region by precedent uses plurality in order to cast a vote, in absence of a plurality, the Delegate should abstain. If you are for this resolution vote for, if you want us to abstain for abstain.
I disagree. I see regions with polls and the result is that there is less discussion on their forums than on our forums from what I can tell (this may be due to size disparity but for example, in Europeia, Repeal Condemn Macedon received 9 votes but no comments. Commend Bach received 12 votes and 5 comments (of which two were procedural on the poll not being set up). In comparison 20 and 36 comments were made on TNP's voting thread. I would attempt to compare the comments made in TNP's forums but I do think it is more likely for someone to comment their reason why when they make a post (which is good) than when they vote.
I do suggest individuals changing their vote edit their original post to reflect a change in their vote.
Which allies? Balder is one of our allies and is abstaining (also a WALL member). Rach is also the former delegate of one of our largest, closest, and most strategic ally. Euro hasn't voted yet as of this post...
And there is absolutely nothing technical about voting against. Everything in this resolution is categorically false. Plenty of other people in this thread have explained how.
Rach admitted to one ridiculous mistake and left the game over it. To equate her to unibot, who has persisted in the same behavior consistently over a period of years, and consistently lied about it is patently offensive.
This posthumous smear campaign against Rach has been particularly unpleasant for me, as I have actually had a working relationship with her. People have always hated and disliked Rach, and they have for the same reasons many people in the game hate TNP. For the simple reason that we and Balder (which Rach has lead for years) refused to be categorized and controlled in the same way that many other regions are. And here her enemies come out of the woodwork to accuse her of every possible crime under the sun with no evidence and, of course, no way for her to defend herself. Such as being a security threat to Balder, the region that she has been the rightful leader of for years. (Seriously wtf. This accusation makes no sense.)
Now I am not a WA resident at the time, so this post can't be construed as a vote. But I say as an ex-delegate of this region, for TNP to join this slanderous charade and piss on the grave of one of the closest friends and supporters this region has ever had, over an admitted mistake, would be an absolute disgrace and embarrassment to this region and the entire game.
- Pronouns
- he/him
- TNP Nation
- El_Fiji_Grande
- Discord
- El Fiji Grande (#3446)
Abstain.
bowloftoast
Not Just For Breakfast
- Discord
- bowloftoast
To be fair, and as a former 5 year resident of Balder, the notion of Solorni's 'rightful' leadership was always a bit questionable. The change to monarchy was a very quiet one. There was no engagement with the thousands of game-side nations of Balder prior to the vote - not a TG, not a whisper in the RMB. While I'm sure the transition was all carried out within the laws of the region, it wasn't exactly transparent, and there was never any evidence of respect for genuine democracy or the wider community.
The reality here is that Solorni was an ongoing, damaging force in Balder, either through neglect or by outright deceit. The region was treated as something once conquered, of little further interest, and the QoL deteriorated dramatically throughout her reign, culminating in all this.
I can personally attest to the manipulative and repressive nature of the government there, and have stated publicly in past, that that tone was set at the top.
I didn't hate her then, I don't hate her now (although I am fairly pissed off by her actions) but I have no doubt that what has been revealed through this investigation is 100% true and very much in character.
The reality here is that Solorni was an ongoing, damaging force in Balder, either through neglect or by outright deceit. The region was treated as something once conquered, of little further interest, and the QoL deteriorated dramatically throughout her reign, culminating in all this.
I can personally attest to the manipulative and repressive nature of the government there, and have stated publicly in past, that that tone was set at the top.
I didn't hate her then, I don't hate her now (although I am fairly pissed off by her actions) but I have no doubt that what has been revealed through this investigation is 100% true and very much in character.
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New Bremerton
Registered
Changing my vote to PRESENT.
Astro-Lux
The Noble Savage
Hello,
If you are willing, I would like to hear your reasoning for supporting your "For" vote. I recently received a telegram from the Minister of WAA to vote against the repeal because of the opposing side's lack of evidence.
Thanks!
against
- Status