Changes to NS!

Something I've noticed in the past few months is that the "show all nations" in a given region shows nations in order of (what I assume to be) the length for which they have resided in the region. I'd throw out the idea that a delegate wouldn't be able to boot anyone who's been in a region longer them themselves. Or possibly only have a limited number of ejections as such.

(This is a moderately big deal if you remember the ruling of the mods that 'there are no natives in feeders' since they couldn't keep track of how long people have been around.)

The mods have said that this is supposed to make things easier for themselves in dealing with invasion tactics, so I would sincerely dobut that Sir Paul's second point about abolishing Founders. I'm not sure if his third point about having a set universal update time is technically possible, either.
 
Thanks, Unter. I had not noticed that, but it will be a useful feature.

*flemingovia goes to see how many people have been in TNP longer than him.

Hang on.... does that mean that if you leave TNP on army business, or get booted by a rogue delegate, you go to the back of the list? if so, then the change you suggest would discriminate against active nations and support wankerites who plant a puppet in a region and just leave it there, inctive, so that they can pop up in times of turmoil and claim native status.

It would also mean that, for safety sake, only old nations would be delegate.
 
Blue Wolf II:
I'd throw out the idea that a delegate wouldn't be able to boot anyone who's been in a region longer them themselves.
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:lol:

That would be great...fendas wouldn't be able to eject raiders :shifty:
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If that happens, the lead would just have to be a native. How that would affect play in the Warzones is another issue. Hmmm we'll have to think about it if and when it happens.
 
There was a "universal" update time for the majority of the games life. The random update times came late 2004/early 2005.
 
Apollo-Industria:
Or possibly only have a limited number of ejections as such.
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Uh... there kind of already is. Ever heard of the 20% cut-off?
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Well, yeah, but right now what they're talking about is actually coding these things into the game, so it's physically impossible to grief. I guess if there were a limited number you could just switch delegates every day and boot until the mods delete you for griefing. I dunno.

From what I've seen on the boards/blogs, it looks like they aren't going to put this sort of solution (or any) in effect in the warzones.

There was a "universal" update time for the majority of the games life. The random update times came late 2004/early 2005.
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I'm not sure what reasons there were for the random updates, and was wondering if there was a problem with updating the number of nations/regions there are now versus a year ago all at once. Just a thought, still.
 
Here it comes, folks! As of this post, NationStates' server is down for 'repairs/maintenance' for the next 45 minutes. I do hope they put up some nice curtains and new carpets. :P

(Time remaining at edit: 15 minutes)
 
GAME IS ONLINE.

First changes noted: Apparently my nation is being influenced by (or influencing, not sure which) the region "Minnow". Never heard of 'em.

Endos are unchanged.

Honeysheep is still Delegate.

Our region's power is "Extremely High". No surprises there. Edit: Link to more info

Next set of changes:

New UN categories:

Advancement of Industry (presumed to be the opposite of Environmental, the header line is "A resolution to develop industry around the world.". Sub-categories include Environmental Deregulation, Labor Deregulation, Protective Tarriffs, Tort Reform)
Education and Creativity (rather misplaces my old resolution, it's header line is "A resolution to promote funding and the development of education and the arts." Sub-categories include Artistic, Educational, Cultural Heritage, and Free Press.
 
I think that means like how important you are in your region. *chuckles*

Because my regional influence here is minnow. In Dionysios, it is Truckler.

Now, you cannot eject nations the exact instant you are Delegate. You have to build up influence. However, the delegate will get a faster building capablitity. Sweet! No more fendas killing off invaders too fast!

NOTE to the MoD: I am resigning from the NPA currently.
 
Danger! Paranoia Alert!

Delegates (and Founders, for that matter) are permitted to eject residents for any reason. That is, they can be good or evil, and moderators don't care which. If your regional Delegate is abusing his power, it's up to you to get her unelected. (Or, failing that, you could change regions.)
Click to expand...

In short, Rogue Delegates are completely unrestricted by the game rules. If someone who's been in the region a long time decides to go on a endo-tarting spree, we are not safe. Even less safe than we already were, which wasn't really much when we think about it.

We may need to find some way to give the Security Council a bit more authority, reform how the Delegate is elected (maybe base it some on the influence), and we will certaintly need to start getting the NPIA more active.

In the meantime, I highly recommend that all user-created region password protect as soon as possible. You password will be visible to everyone in your region, so if a single invader or spy moves in before you protect it, YOU'RE SCREWED. At least until a decent defense is found against this.
 
The NationStates, she is slower than an obstinant mule ya?

EDIT NOTE: I was refering that it's taking exceptionally long for me to do anything (in the range of minutes to load my nation page)
 
A-I, check your in-box, please.

The NationStates, she is slower than an obstinant mule ya?

EDIT NOTE: I was refering that it's taking exceptionally long for me to do anything (in the range of minutes to load my nation page)
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I was wondering what you meant... probably everyone logging in to see what all's been done, etc.

Would this apply to non-founderless regions?
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All regions, buddy. That's why I think you lot should start adding passwords ASAP.
 
Hersfold:
Danger! Paranoia Alert!

Delegates (and Founders, for that matter) are permitted to eject residents for any reason. That is, they can be good or evil, and moderators don't care which. If your regional Delegate is abusing his power, it's up to you to get her unelected. (Or, failing that, you could change regions.)
Click to expand...

In short, Rogue Delegates are completely unrestricted by the game rules. If someone who's been in the region a long time decides to go on a endo-tarting spree, we are not safe. Even less safe than we already were, which wasn't really much when we think about it.

We may need to find some way to give the Security Council a bit more authority, reform how the Delegate is elected (maybe base it some on the influence), and we will certaintly need to start getting the NPIA more active.

In the meantime, I highly recommend that all user-created region password protect as soon as possible. You password will be visible to everyone in your region, so if a single invader or spy moves in before you protect it, YOU'RE SCREWED. At least until a decent defense is found against this.
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There was no restriction on being an evil dictator in a feeder before. This change doesn't strike me as being very meaningful here. I seem to recall the mods telling us we were on our own the last few dictators. I see no reason to over-react and suggest we're more vulnerable than we were yesterday.

As to the user-created regions, that's another story.
 
mmm. Not impressed with the change. If you lose influence by leaving the region, then the temptation will be to sit tight and build endos.

Just what this game needs! More stagnancy.

No such thing as griefing? The game masters coming out and saying there is no such thing as a rogue delegate? If you have been around long enough you can do what the hell you like? I am not sure this is a game I want to play any more.

Long live the lurkers. New masters of NS.
 
At first blush, I still believe that the Constitutional language concerning the Security Council is sufficient to adapt to these changes in the NS gameplay. It may require better intel for the Delegate, Vice Delegate, PM, MoD, NPA, NPIA to consider and present information in the Security Council, and the Delegate will have to provide information on the impact on his/her regional influence rating of banning a particular player. But none of that indicates a change in the constitutional language. It may be necessary to adopt TNP laws to facilitate the collection and sharing of such intelligence on an effective and timely basis. It certainly does mean that rouge delegates are still possible, that any planting of invaider groups will have to be very long term to be effective, and thus, countermeasures can be planned and taken.
 
flemingovia:
mmm. Not impressed with the change. If you lose influence by leaving the region, then the temptation will be to sit tight and build endos.
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You know, my first thought on discovering I was a minnow (which all my nations, including my original nearly three-year-old nation of Irixinia, are) was that I should go grab a bunch of endorsements and try to attain a more flattering title. Silly, really.

With the apathetic and uninvolved members of the game (for the most part) being granted greater power, it seems the meek have truly inherited the Earth.

I still don't think it will change much around here other than giving another excuse to the "new player" that always seems to go on endo-hunting spree around delegate changeover time.




Edit:I was taking a look at some nations in the region and it appears duration doesn't mean a whole heck of a lot. San Haiti, Sol Bianca and Liononim, who are the three longest tendered members of the region (according to the "List Nations" order) and all UN members, are only ranked minnow.
 
I can only say a thing about the changes... delegates can't be figureheads anymore, and this rather lays feeders invulnerable or weak, check out The Pacific...
 
I thought I'd re-post the changes here for those lacking the time or inclination to seek them out:

All About Influence

April 2006

Introduction

As of version 1.9, all nations have "Regional Influence," which is a measure of how important a nation is considered in its current region. Influence is determined by two factors: how much time the nation has spent in this region, and how many UN endorsements it has had over that time.

Effect on Gameplay

Although being boast-worthy in its own right, Influence serves an important gameplay purpose. The ability of UN Delegates to eject and ban nations from their region, and to password-protect it, is limited by their Influence. That is, the longer a Delegate has been a resident of the region, and the more endorsements he has held over that time, the more able he is to eject, ban, and password-protect.

Delegates consume some of their Influence to exercise their power, so the more often he ejects, bans, and password-protects, the more difficult it is for him to wield those powers in the future.

In relation to ejecting and banning, the exact amount of Influence consumed depends on the target's Influence. A newcomer to a region may be ejected for very little cost, while ejecting a well-supported, long-time resident is very expensive.

Invasion Rules

With the introduction of Regional Influence, our rules governing "Invasion Griefing" are abolished.

That means we no longer have complicated rules dictating, for example, how many residents a Delegate can eject before the moderators consider it illegal "griefing." Delegates need not worry about whether they are allowed to eject, ban, or password-protect—instead, if the game lets you do them, they're legal.

This removes a major source of angst and uncertainty for players and moderators alike. In the past, some players didn't even know there were rules about ejecting nations until after they'd broken them. Even experienced players (and moderators!) sometimes found it difficult to separate genuine invasions from region griefing. We're very glad to be able to put this situation behind us.

Examples

    * Nation A has been a resident of her region for two months, then becomes Delegate. She is likely to have a large pool of Influence to spend.
    * Nation B is the Delegate of a region that is suddenly invaded. As the invaders have no Influence, B can easily afford to eject all of them.
    * Nation C is part of an invasion force that crashes into a region. The invaders all endorse C and he becomes Delegate. C will have no or very little Influence, and be unable to immediately eject any native residents. (However, he will be gaining Influence faster than anyone else in the region, as he now has the most endorsements.)
    * Nation D is a long-time regional resident. She leaves the region for a few days, then returns. D will have slightly less Influence in this region than when she departed. (She will also have accumulated a small amount of Influence in the region she temporarily visited.)

Other Changes

    * Regions now have a "Regional Power" label. This reflects how much Influence that region's residents have in total, compared to other regions.
    * Delegates and Founders can use Region Control to password-protect their region, and have that password automatically displayed on the region page to all residents. (It remains hidden from outsiders.) It costs less Influence to apply a password that is visible to residents than to apply one that will remain hidden.

Obsoleted Rules

As mentioned above, "Invasion Griefing" rules have been abolished. The forum rules sticky has been updated to reflect this, with the following old rules removed:

    * Deleted: A distinction was drawn between "invaders" and "natives," and different rules applied to each.
    * Deleted: "Invader Delegates" were prohibited from ejecting more than a certain number (usually 10%) of residents, and required to unban them immediately afterward.
    * Deleted: If an "invader Delegate" password-protected the region, she was required to distribute that password to residents via telegram.
    * Deleted: Delegates were prohibited from ejecting residents in order to re-Found a region.

These rules no longer apply.

Notes

    * The "Regional Influence" label reflects how much Influence a nation has compared to others in its region only. A nation with few endorsements and a short residency in a small region may have a higher Regional Influence rank than one with many endorsements and a long residence in a large region.
    * Influence cannot be transferred between regions. When a nation enters a new region for the first time, his Regional Influence there is zero.
    * While Founders earn Influence like any other nation, they do not spend it. Thus they can continue to do whatever they like in their own regions—eject, ban, password-protect, and deny Delegate access to Region Control—as much as they please.
    * All nations accumulate Influence, whether they are UN members or not.
    * Nations have been invisibly accumulating Influence since the start of March 2006. Since we can't tell how long nations were resident in their region, or how many endorsements they had, before then, the amount of Influence nations have now is not affected by what they did prior to that date.
    * The Region Control page, accessible by regional Delegates and Founders, will provide a useful estimate of the cost in Influence of performing any action. Thus, Delegates can get a rough idea of how much Influence they must spend to eject, ban, or password-protect.
    * Delegates (and Founders, for that matter) are permitted to eject residents for any reason. That is, they can be good or evil, and moderators don't care which. If your regional Delegate is abusing his power, it's up to you to get her unelected. (Or, failing that, you could change regions.)
    * The Influence system is the result of collaboration between admin, moderators, and players. A great many people contributed their time and ideas to the project, making this change a truly community-driven one. Thank you everyone!
Click to expand...


These rules would have been helpful when UPS Rail ejected me and my 512 endorsements back in the summer of '04. I suspect that would have eaten up a good chunk of his ejection allowance. Same deal with Great Bight. He was a newcomer with just over 100 endorsements who liked to eject long-term residents. It may have been possible to remove him without any game mechanics hocus pocus.

While I still don't think we need to enact any laws to address these changes, it may behoove the more active nations in the region to up their endorsement counts for security reasons. I can also see tenure/influence being an important campaign issue in future delegate/vice delegate elections.
 
I've had turds that are more radical than these changes. Regional influence makes absolutely no sense but on the whole the changes are good. I still wonder how long it would take the mods to realise they'd been bitten by a dog, if this is the speed that they make changes at. It may slightly revitalise the defender-invader game but updates are still at an obnoxious time for most people (Except those damn Aussies).
 
In the meantime, I highly recommend that all user-created region password protect as soon as possible. You password will be visible to everyone in your region, so if a single invader or spy moves in before you protect it, YOU'RE SCREWED. At least until a decent defense is found against this.
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NOOO no no no no! actually we are a hell of a lot safer. but feeders, you really should be worried :yes:

was taking a look at some nations in the region and it appears duration doesn't mean a whole heck of a lot. San Haiti, Sol Bianca and Liononim, who are the three longest tendered members of the region (according to the "List Nations" order) and all UN members, are only ranked minnow.
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its not just length of time, its UN endos, rankings etc aswell. I think anyway...

this looks interesting, who knows it could shake up the game in a good way?
 
Hersfold:
Danger! Paranoia Alert!

Delegates (and Founders, for that matter) are permitted to eject residents for any reason. That is, they can be good or evil, and moderators don't care which. If your regional Delegate is abusing his power, it's up to you to get her unelected. (Or, failing that, you could change regions.)
Click to expand...

In short, Rogue Delegates are completely unrestricted by the game rules. If someone who's been in the region a long time decides to go on a endo-tarting spree, we are not safe. Even less safe than we already were, which wasn't really much when we think about it.

We may need to find some way to give the Security Council a bit more authority, reform how the Delegate is elected (maybe base it some on the influence), and we will certaintly need to start getting the NPIA more active.

In the meantime, I highly recommend that all user-created region password protect as soon as possible. You password will be visible to everyone in your region, so if a single invader or spy moves in before you protect it, YOU'RE SCREWED. At least until a decent defense is found against this.
Click to expand...
;) Bwawawawa. Let the fun commence! :ph34r:
 
Posts on the NS forums indicate a vast range of title (15 to 20 odd were on the last list I saw), suggest that although most people appear to have been minnow-ised, some people have come out on top.
 
What with the changes being "excellent news for The Lexicon and [y]our future ambitions", fair to say we're going to see a lot more of you around here , IP?
 
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