[SC - Passed] Commend Markanite

Fregerson

Secretly here
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Commend Markanite
Category: Commendation | Nominee: Markanite
Proposed by: Kuriko | Onsite Topic
The Security Council,

Recognizing that many of the nations making significant contributions to the betterment of this community, do so in relative obscurity because the nation’s name is not widely known

Believing that any nation that shows extreme dedication to its home region, with an equal dedication to international diplomacy and the protection of the founderless regions of the world, deserves recognition by this esteemed Assembly

Asserting that over ten years, the nation of Markanite has embodied the qualities of service, dedication, compassion, and loyalty that are determining in improving universal quality of life

Praising first, Markanite's exceptional dedication to their home region 10000 Islands and highlighting the variety of contributive regional roles held in past:

• World Assembly Delegate, 3 terms for a combined 18 months of service. Markanite is widely regarded as the greatest WA Delegate in 10000 Islands history, serving longer in the role than any other

• Minister of Education, 4 terms, with a combined 39 months of service. In this office Markanite managed the Great Library of the 10000 Islands and 10000 Islands University. They were instrumental in keeping the beloved University active, and fostering the continuing education of regional inhabitants

• Senator for New Republica South, 3 terms for a combined 18 months of service. In this role, Markanite was charged with overseeing the region’s political parties and developing the framework for inter-party debate. They were instrumental in rejeuvenating this important aspect of 10000 Islands culture, and continue to be a champion for citizen engagement

Appreciating Markanite’s enduring membership in, and commitment to, this Assembly, exemplified throughout their lengthy career, and most recently as Regional Chief Executive, by the recent creation of the10000 Islands WA Secretary role, dedicated to increasing WA membership in the region, and already mentoring new resolution authors.

Lauding Markanite's service to the international community, where, as a strong and cooperative voice at many early summits, they contributed to the development of the fledgling, cross-regional Embassy infrastructure, establishing the defense alliances that continue to bring stability and cooperation to the WA realm.

Applauding their further achievements as both Chief Executive over, and as a 9-year member, of TITO, where they have overseen inumerable Defenses and Liberations of vulnerable regions, with direct participation in over 200 missions; notable among them:

• deployment to the region of South America on June 26th 2010, where over 117 defenders deployed in order to save the region from invasion by an astounding 70 invader nations.

• deployment to the Sinker region Lazarus in 2015, which ultimately lead to Kazmr quelling the coup that created the illegitimate government of the New Lazarene Order.

• deployment to The East Pacific, to defend the region against the recent coup attempt, and to help reinstate the duly elected Delegate.

• numerous regional refounding missions, including Greece, Australia, and Deutschland, as well as Natan Region, and Korovia. Each of these regions went on to grow a vibrant and healthy community of nations, several that still exist to this day.

Noting that Markanite is a recipient of the Yggdrasil Medal of Honor, acknowledging their years of support and friendship to that region, and standing as but one example of their ongoing diplomatic efforts, and positive impact in the wider community

Heralding their receiving The Heart of the Islands Award, bestowed in 10000 Islands to a nation of intelligence, helpfulness, and above all, kindness toward the many thousands of nations that have graced the region’s shores

Concluding that Markanite is suitably worthy of recognition from this esteemed Council, for their many and continuing contributions to the community over which it prevails, and so,

Hereby Commends Markanite.

Co-authored by THX1138
Voting Instructions:
  • Vote For if you want the Delegate to vote For the resolution.
  • Vote Against if you want the Delegate to vote Against the resolution.
  • Vote Abstain if you want the Delegate to abstain from voting on this resolution.
  • Vote Present if you are personally abstaining from this vote.

Detailed opinions with your vote are appreciated and encouraged!
 

Fregerson

Secretly here
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Markanite is a long-serving member of 10000 Islands, a commended region in itself. Currently the Chief Executive, and notably having been the longest-serving World Assembly Delegate of the region, Markanite has contirbuted significantly to the development of 10000 Islands and its place in the world. For an equally long time, Markanite has been a member of TITO, overseeing and participating in missions to restore lawful Delegates in large regions and protrect founderless regions from external threats through refounding.

For the reasons above, the Ministry recommends a vote For this proposal.
 
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Bobberino

Spammer in Chief
Deputy Speaker
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Against. Don't know the guy, but contributing to XKI, solely, isn't a commendable international feat.
 

Kuriko

TNPer
Against. Don't know the guy, but contributing to XKI, solely, isn't a commendable international feat.
I'm sorry, but I honestly don't get why people seem to be saying this. If you look at the second half of the proposal you'll see where Markanite's TITO information is. Over the last ten years Markanite has deployed in over 200 successful defender operations. Not only has he deployed to counteract coups in GCRs, he's also deployed to help founderless communities refound their regions to remain safe.

Defending has a very large affect on the international community, especially when it's by counteracting GCR coups and keeping communities safe. And since when has contributing mainly one region been a reason to deny commendation by the Security Council? Nation's that have contributed to one region should be worthy of note as well as those who contribute on a greater scale, because they're just as much an example of excellence as those who have greater contributions outside their home region. Especially when their contributions are on such a large scale as Mark's are in the largest UCR of NationStates.
 

Pallaith

TNPer
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Against. For reasons I could elaborate upon but last time I did that...
Explaining your reasoning doesn’t mean other people will be swayed by it. It’s still decent to state your case particularly if it seems surprising to others. That whole self-indulgent pity party thing you’re doing is really annoying, particularly from someone in a high place in the WA ministry.

Anyway, I am For this one.
 

Robespierre

The MacMilitant
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Explaining your reasoning doesn’t mean other people will be swayed by it. It’s still decent to state your case particularly if it seems surprising to others. That whole self-indulgent pity party thing you’re doing is really annoying, particularly from someone in a high place in the WA ministry.

Anyway, I am For this one.
Excuse me that I would rather not spend my time during the holiday season typing up an essay that dissects a proposal line-by-line in an attempt to support a reasoning that’ll ultimately not amount to much in the long run anyway. Last time you asked me why I was against and yet not one time have I ever asked you why you’re for on a given proposal. At least I am thorough in my analysis of a given resolution (as demonstrated by my stance in the last commendation that had Kuriko as an author) and despite the fact I owe you no explanation for my own vote I still gave you one in the spirit of advocating my side.

What’s annoying to me is how you seem to be unable to handle someone having a stance different to yours on a World Assembly proposal for which we’re all promoted to voice our opinions on and in the last two proposals you’ve done this to me and to me only when there were others besides me who stated they were against.
 
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Pallaith

TNPer
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Excuse me that I would rather not spend my time during the holiday season typing up an essay that dissects a proposal line-by-line in an attempt to support a reasoning that’ll ultimately not amount to much in the long run anyway. Last time you asked me why I was against and yet not one time have I ever asked you why you’re for on a given proposal. At least I am thorough in my analysis of a given resolution (as demonstrated by my stance in the last commendation that had Kuriko as an author) and despite the fact I owe you no explanation for my own vote I still gave you one in the spirit of advocating my side.

What’s annoying to me is how you seem to be unable to handle someone having a stance different to yours on a World Assembly proposal for which we’re all promoted to voice our opinions on and in the last two proposals you’ve done this to me and to me only when there were others besides me who stated they were against.
I said what I said entirely because you grumbled about sharing your opinion as if sharing it meant you were supposed to get something out of it. I didn’t appreciate the meta commentary, especially because of your role in the ministry. In general I would prefer everyone stated their case for their vote, but I recognize that isn’t always realistic.

Last time you had a very clear argument against the resolution and I knew you had something to share, so I encouraged you to do so. This time you indicated as much in this thread but chose to be petty instead of sharing it. That’s why I responded. Imagine if you repeated just a bit of what you’ve shared in other places that could inform your vote and maybe those of others, but instead you’ve chosen to spar with me. Spare me the victim thing, a deputy of the WA ministry who has actual opinions and works on crafting the IFV should be expected to respond to these kinds of inquiries. You’re not some random WA voter I happen to be picking on.
 

Robespierre

The MacMilitant
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I said what I said entirely because you grumbled about sharing your opinion as if sharing it meant you were supposed to get something out of it. I didn’t appreciate the meta commentary, especially because of your role in the ministry. In general I would prefer everyone stated their case for their vote, but I recognize that isn’t always realistic.

Last time you had a very clear argument against the resolution and I knew you had something to share, so I encouraged you to do so. This time you indicated as much in this thread but chose to be petty instead of sharing it. That’s why I responded. Imagine if you repeated just a bit of what you’ve shared in other places that could inform your vote and maybe those of others, but instead you’ve chosen to spar with me. Spare me the victim thing, a deputy of the WA ministry who has actual opinions and works on crafting the IFV should be expected to respond to these kinds of inquiries. You’re not some random WA voter I happen to be picking on.
That would be because my comments and thoughts are applicable to both proposals. I would essentially be saying the same thing only in different wording, because I’m holding consistency in the same argument and it’s something I stand by. Once again, just as I said in the last commendation, here is what I have to say:

“Contributions to one specific region (in this case XKI) are not commendable and do not deserve the attention of the international community because the World Assembly is a body that recognizes those who go above and beyond to make the NationStates world a better place. I also don’t personally find the rendition of their activities in defending to be all that impressive in it of themselves, as we have members of the North Pacific Army who have total operations much higher then the stat specified in the resolution and yet we aren’t attempting to get them commended by the international body that the World Assembly is no matter how good of North Pacificans they are/were (past and present). That’s not to say the nominee isn’t a good player who hasn’t done good things, becuase I am unable to make that claim since I don’t know them and haven’t witnessed their work. But in my mind it isn’t commendable, not when everything can be tied back to XKI more or less.”

My role in the Ministry of World Assembly Affairs has little to do with this, but since you insist I’ve once again stated the same argument I have before in the hopes that you’re satisfied by it.
 
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Kuriko

TNPer
I'm sorry, but the contents of this proposal follow the contents of the commendation of your very own delegate pretty close. The only difference is that Mark hasn't written any SC resolutions. By your logic Robespierre, there isn't much in the way of reasons to Commend McM yet he's commended and rightly so. McM was, and is, deserving of his commendation just as much as Markanite is. So why give a commendation to one person deserving it for certain reasons and then deny it for another person for mostly the same reasons McM was commended?
 

Bobberino

Spammer in Chief
Deputy Speaker
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Explaining your reasoning doesn’t mean other people will be swayed by it. It’s still decent to state your case particularly if it seems surprising to others. That whole self-indulgent pity party thing you’re doing is really annoying, particularly from someone in a high place in the WA ministry.

Anyway, I am For this one.

If your stance in "Hey Bob are you capable of doing anything besides shitting on your countrymen? Asking for the region' is to be believed, it is bad to present a negative stance, consistently, on your region-mates' takes on this particular proposal and ones in the past. You have shown in this thread an affinity for doing such. Care to revise your wording? Furthermore, your persistent targeting of Robes is not appreciated and it appears you have a knack for thinking that these kinds of comments when referring to region mates are acceptable when you have in fact stated the opposite.
 

Dreadton

TuffingTost Senior Reporter
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I'm sorry, but the contents of this proposal follow the contents of the commendation of your very own delegate pretty close. The only difference is that Mark hasn't written any SC resolutions. By your logic Robespierre, there isn't much in the way of reasons to Commend McM yet he's commended and rightly so. McM was, and is, deserving of his commendation just as much as Markanite is. So why give a commendation to one person deserving it for certain reasons and then deny it for another person for mostly the same reasons McM was commended?
Maybe he wouldnt have supported the Commend fo MCM
 

Robespierre

The MacMilitant
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Maybe he wouldnt have supported the Commend fo MCM
Who knows? The resolution for McM was passed on the twenty-fifth (25th) of July in 2014. I began playing NationStates in May of 2014 and for about the first year or so I was admittedly a noob, so I wouldn’t have been around to care about the happenings of the Security Council at that point in time. Or at least I wouldn’t have been around to grasp the context the proposal was being presented in, and judging by the founding date on Kuriko’s nation (which is the thirty-first (31st) of October in 2017) they weren’t around for it either.

I need not defend every resolution ever passed and how it was written.
 
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Dreadton

TuffingTost Senior Reporter
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Who knows? The resolution for McM was passed on the twenty-fifth (25th) of July in 2014. I began playing NationStates in May of 2014 and for about the first year I was admittedly a noob so I wouldn’t have been around to care about the happenings of the Security Council at that point in time. Or at least I wouldn’t have been around to grasp the context, and judging by the founding date on Kuriko’s nation (which is the thirty-first (31st) of October in 2017) they weren’t around for it either.

I need not defend every resolution ever passed and how it was written.
And people opinions and thought processes change over time. I first supported well supported Commend motion. Now I refuse to support any. In the future who knows.
 

Robespierre

The MacMilitant
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And people opinions and thought processes change over time. I first supported well supported Commend motion. Now I refuse to support any. In the future who knows.
Very true. It’s been a long time since then and people’s viewpoints change over time. This event in 2014 is coming up on being six years ago in July 2020 and when considering how time on NS tends to feel that’s a considerably long time for a lot of people to feel differently. Dare I say many nations have CTEd since then that were once active WA voters back then, and I’m not going to say whether or not McM is deserving because clearly he was at the point in time for which a resolution was passed on him.

That’s something the international community of five and a half years ago decided. It’s not something I have to decide or speculate upon.
 
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Dreadton

TuffingTost Senior Reporter
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I didn’t appreciate the meta commentary, especially because of your role in the ministry.
Why would his role in the government have anything to do with his statement of opinion? You opened with a personal attack because he didnt want to retype his statements on why he is against a commend that followed the framework of the previous resolution. It was clear, at least to me, that he was speaking in his personal capacity, not as a government official. Why should we hold that against him? If he is not living up to your standard on what a WA Consultant should do, I would think there is an appropriate forum for that, not a personal attack in a Roll call thread.
 

Kuriko

TNPer
You're right, I wasn't around for McM's commendation vote. But I personally would have voted for it if I were, because those who contribute so much to one singular region on such a large scale level like McM and Markanite have are just as worthy as those who have done greater things. Like you, Kuriko is not my first nation so I'd appreciate it if you didn't leap to conclusions about whether I was around or not.

My first nation, Lenlyvit, was founded in February of 2012 and I left NS in the middle of 2013. Retrospection is important when considering how to vote on proposals in my opinion.
 

Robespierre

The MacMilitant
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I feel as if providing a disclaimer before everything I write that remotely express an opinion of mine is unnecessary, especially for the high caliber of players we have here in the North Pacific. It should be common knowledge that unless I specify otherwise my personal opinions should not be seen as an open door to attack my role in government or insinuate that my positioning within a Ministry has something to do with it. That is why I chose the wording I did, since I perceived your words to me to be in a pointed tone. If you did not intend them that way then I apologize, as it is difficult to infer tone over text. However, if you did mean it that way then my response may be interpreted as you would like it to be.
 

Pallaith

TNPer
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If your stance in "Hey Bob are you capable of doing anything besides shitting on your countrymen? Asking for the region' is to be believed, it is bad to present a negative stance, consistently, on your region-mates' takes on this particular proposal and ones in the past. You have shown in this thread an affinity for doing such. Care to revise your wording? Furthermore, your persistent targeting of Robes is not appreciated and it appears you have a knack for thinking that these kinds of comments when referring to region mates are acceptable when you have in fact stated the opposite.
You do not appear to be capable of nuance. I am not targeting Robes, he happens to have particularly strong opinions about these commendationsand I am challenging him to share them here. I would suggest reading my second post to him, it explains my thinking on this.

I am not trashing Robes, I am calling out a problem with his post. It’s distinguishable from what you’re referencing, though I suppose you can’t see it that way since you’re trying to use it to paint me as somehow hypocritical. This thread isn’t for relitigating sour grapes for a game event that happened 3 months ago anyway. Robes’s subsequent post explaining his vote was what I was looking for and I appreciate that he posted it even if he feels it is redundant and may not sway anyone.

Why would his role in the government have anything to do with his statement of opinion? You opened with a personal attack because he didnt want to retype his statements on why he is against a commend that followed the framework of the previous resolution. It was clear, at least to me, that he was speaking in his personal capacity, not as a government official. Why should we hold that against him? If he is not living up to your standard on what a WA Consultant should do, I would think there is an appropriate forum for that, not a personal attack in a Roll call thread.
I critiqued behavior I felt was unbecoming, I don’t perceive that as a personal attack. Robes is an influential voice in the ministry and his opinions inform the discussion that leads to the IFV. It’s an opinion he has in fact been sharing there, which means he’s just as capable of doing it here. I want to encourage more robust discussion of resolutions in this forum, and I know the ministry does too. This isn’t about distinguishing between personal and government opinion.
 

Robespierre

The MacMilitant
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You're right, I wasn't around for McM's commendation vote. But I personally would have voted for it if I were, because those who contribute so much to one singular region on such a large scale level like McM and Markanite have are just as worthy as those who have done greater things. Like you, Kuriko is not my first nation so I'd appreciate it if you didn't leap to conclusions about whether I was around or not.

My first nation, Lenlyvit, was founded in February of 2012 and I left NS in the middle of 2013. Retrospection is important when considering how to vote on proposals in my opinion.
Fair enough. In such case, I apologize for judging your nation’s founding date to be relative. Hopefully you can understand, however, as without prior knowledge were Lenlyvit that is all I had to go off of. Nonetheless, I do extend an apology for referencing the founding date. I hope you can forgive me for that.

As for you stating you’d have supported McM’s commendation - that’s fine. I’m only saying that while the two resolutions may be comparable when reading one against the other, their similarities cease when weighing historical implication and presentation context. It was a different scene back then and I’m not asserting my claim as to what should have happened since I wasn’t there.
 

Dreadton

TuffingTost Senior Reporter
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I critiqued behavior I felt was unbecoming, I don’t perceive that as a personal attack. Robes is an influential voice in the ministry and his opinions inform the discussion that leads to the IFV. It’s an opinion he has in fact been sharing there, which means he’s just as capable of doing it here. I want to encourage more robust discussion of resolutions in this forum, and I know the ministry does too. This isn’t about distinguishing between personal and government opinion.
I have no idea if there is an actual issue between you and Robes. I consider myself reasonably objective. With that in mind, almost everything you posted in response to robes in this thread reads as hostile and personal, not as an objective difference in opinion on the matter at hand or as a critique. You seem to have this standard established in your head on how he should be acting in this thread, in response to these votes. You want to encourage more debate, Awesome. But your delivery leaves more to be desired, at least from my side of the isle. We have deviated from the substance of the vote and into a discussion of interpersonal coimmunications.
 

Praetor

Hoppin' Around
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I also don’t personally find the rendition of their activities in defending to be all that impressive in it of themselves, as we have members of the North Pacific Army who have total operations much higher then the stat specified in the resolution and yet we aren’t attempting to get them commended by the international body that the World Assembly is no matter how good of North Pacificans they are/were (past and present).
This argument that others that are more deserving have not been commended is not a good one.

If you think there are those who are worthy of commendation in TNP, you know where the SC drafting forum is.
 

Robespierre

The MacMilitant
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This argument that others that are more deserving have not been commended is not a good one.

If you think there are those who are worthy of commendation in TNP, you know where the SC drafting forum is.
I’m using the numbers of NPA members as a comparison point to support my opinion that the numbers aren’t particularly outstanding or exceptionally noteworthy. While it’s a good stat to have under you belt, it shouldn’t be a talking point for why you ought to be commended. Not at that number anyway, at least Vincent Drake’s was much more astounding an operations total.

I’ll use the analogy of a sandwich - this isn’t the mean you want to put on your sandwich if your sandwich is the commendation itself.
 

Kuriko

TNPer
I’m using the numbers of NPA members as a comparison point to support my opinion that the numbers aren’t particularly outstanding or exceptionally noteworthy. While it’s a good stat to have under you belt, it shouldn’t be a talking point for why you ought to be commended. Not at that number anyway, at least Vincent Drake’s was much more astounding an operations total.

I’ll use the analogy of a sandwich - this isn’t the mean you want to put on your sandwich if your sandwich is the commendation itself.
The number of operations of a TITO member, while seeming small next to other nations in other orgs, is actually pretty large when it hits the 200 mark. TITO, as an organization, has a policy against switching for operations at update. This policy, although now being laid to rest finally under the new guard of TITO Commanders, limited members of the organization to one operation per update.

Likewise, our non-updating personnel only go on one operation per update. That's it. I'd say over 200 operations in 10+ years in an organization that doesn't always deploy every update, and had an anti-switching policy, is quite a bit and shouldn't be dismissed so quickly.
 

Robespierre

The MacMilitant
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The number of operations of a TITO member, while seeming small next to other nations in other orgs, is actually pretty large when it hits the 200 mark. TITO, as an organization, has a policy against switching for operations at update. This policy, although now being laid to rest finally under the new guard of TITO Commanders, limited members of the organization to one operation per update.

Likewise, our non-updating personnel only go on one operation per update. That's it. I'd say over 200 operations in 10+ years in an organization that doesn't always deploy every update, and had an anti-switching policy, is quite a bit and shouldn't be dismissed so quickly.
I’m aware of your switching policy. Simple math tells you that the noninee would have had to do twenty operations a year for the total to equivocate to two-hundred in ten years. Ten years is a very lengthy amount of time, and even with that switching policy twenty operations isn’t internationally commendable. Nonetheless, I think a commendation can include better material. That’s a personal opinion of mine, as is everything else said here, so I won’t press on and dispute that too much with you. That being said, you do realize McM’s commendation isn’t just about one region like this one is, yes? I wasn’t going to engage on that line, but it does kind of negate what you said when comparing the two.
 
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Darcania

kul Seredrau
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Most orgs don't count separate switches as separate ops anyway, or at least the NPA doesn't, so our current record holder's 324 operations isn't boosted by 40 when we do a forty-tag; that count only goes up by 1.

Oh, and that 324-count was obtained in a bit less than four years, not in 10 years.
 
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Kuriko

TNPer
I’m aware of your switching policy. Simple math tells you that the noninee would have had to do twenty operations a year for the total to equivocate to two-hundred in ten years. Ten years is a very lengthy amount of time, and even with that switching policy twenty operations isn’t internationally commendable. Nonetheless, I think a commendation can include better material. That’s a personal opinion of mine, as is everything else said here, so I won’t press on and dispute that too much with you. That being said, you do realize McM’s commendation isn’t just about one region like this one is, yes? I wasn’t going to engage on that line, but it does kind of negate what you said when comparing the two.
McM's entire proposal is about work in TNP, work as an NPA member, work in diplomacy, and two SC resolutions. The only difference is the two SC resolutions with Markanite not having written any. I think that kind of proves my point, since this proposal is about work in XKI, work in TITO, and work in diplomacy. I read Commend McMasterdonia.
 

Kuriko

TNPer
Most orgs don't count separate switches as separate ops anyway, or at least the NPA doesn't, so our current record holder's 324 operations isn't boosted by 40 when we do a forty-tag; that count only goes up by 1.
Something I didn't know, thanks Darcania! 324 operations isn't that much more than 200, but at least I learned something new :). In TGW every successful defense, every liberation, counts towards mission totals which is why Vinny's was so high. Every defense he had against taggers was included there.
 

Robespierre

The MacMilitant
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McM's entire proposal is about work in TNP, work as an NPA member, work in diplomacy, and two SC resolutions. The only difference is the two SC resolutions with Markanite not having written any. I think that kind of proves my point, since this proposal is about work in XKI, work in TITO, and work in diplomacy. I read Commend McMasterdonia.
Luckily I dismantled both arguments regardless of if you think McM’s is about one region or not. So I digress

Something I didn't know, thanks Darcania! 324 operations isn't that much more than 200, but at least I learned something new :). In TGW every successful defense, every liberation, counts towards mission totals which is why Vinny's was so high. Every defense he had against taggers was included there.
Nah... it isn’t that much more than 200. It’s only over half more of the nominees total and in the next year it’ll approaching twice as much, but no... not that much all things considered.
 
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