[Complete][SC - Passed] Liberate KAISERREICH

TlomzKrano

TlomzKrano

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Liberate KAISERREICH
Category: Liberation | Nominee: KAISERREICH
Proposed by: Lenlyvit | Onsite Topic​

The Security Council,

Noting that KAISERREICH at this point in time is not yet founderless;

Appalled by KAISERREICH’s apparent disregard towards others, as well as the regions use of Nazi propaganda and swastikas;

Abhorred by the regions use of hate speech behind closed doors in its hallowed halls;

Believing that a region such as KAISERREICH, who hides their true nature so as to lure unsuspecting new nations to them, does not deserve the right to be protected by this august body;

Further Believing that liberating KAISERREICH will serve as a warning to other Nazi and Fascist regions, a warning that if they try to hide their true nature the Security Council will take action;

Acknowledging that liberating KAISERREICH, which has built its reputation on lies and falsehoods as well as attempting to eliminate ideologies different than theirs, will leave the region open to invasion after its founder leaves;

The Security Council hereby liberates KAISERREICH.
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Voting Instructions:
  • Vote For if you want the Delegate to vote For the resolution.
  • Vote Against if you want the Delegate to vote Against the resolution.
  • Vote Abstain if you want the Delegate to abstain from voting on this resolution.
  • Vote Present if you are personally abstaining from this vote.

Detailed opinions with your vote are appreciated and encouraged!

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The Government of the North Pacific has always taken and anti-fascist stance, given that this liberation would leave the fascist region of KAISERREICH vulnerable to occupation and eventual refounding should their founder ever cease to exist or be deleted by the moderators for breaching NationStates rules the Ministry sees little reason to oppose this liberation.

For these reasons, the Ministry of World Assembly Affairs recommends a vote for the resolution.
 
My own personal statement:
While it must be noted that The North Pacific stands against fascism and Nazism in all forms, the use of a liberation in the context presented is not justifiable. The region KAISERREICH currently still maintains an active founder which would thwart any attempt at military action post liberation. This liberation, while potentially well meaning, effectively accomplishes nothing and may even harm future military interactions with the target region. Due to these reasons, I must vote against this proposal
 
Against

While it must be noted that The North Pacific stands against fascism and Nazism in all forms, the use of a liberation in the context presented is not justifiable. The region KAISERREICH currently still maintains an active founder which would thwart any attempt at military action post liberation. This liberation, while potentially well meaning, effectively accomplishes nothing and may even harm future military interactions with the target region. Due to these reasons, I must vote against this proposal
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Agreed.
 
TlomzKrano:
My own personal statement:
While it must be noted that The North Pacific stands against fascism and Nazism in all forms, the use of a liberation in the context presented is not justifiable. The region KAISERREICH currently still maintains an active founder which would thwart any attempt at military action post liberation. This liberation, while potentially well meaning, effectively accomplishes nothing and may even harm future military interactions with the target region. Due to these reasons, I must vote against this proposal
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This statement goes against the precedent TNP has always set. TNP voted for Liberate The Greater German Reich when it had a founder and I proposed a liberation in an attempt to harm it when it went founderless - and like they all do, it did eventually go founderless - and TNP worked with all the feeders to propose and pass Liberate Nazi Europe.

You seem to miss the point of the Liberation - its to prevent the region putting a password on in the event that the founder ceases to exist. It would not remove its current password.
 
TlomzKrano:
My own personal statement:
While it must be noted that The North Pacific stands against fascism and Nazism in all forms, the use of a liberation in the context presented is not justifiable. The region KAISERREICH currently still maintains an active founder which would thwart any attempt at military action post liberation. This liberation, while potentially well meaning, effectively accomplishes nothing and may even harm future military interactions with the target region. Due to these reasons, I must vote against this proposal
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What future military interactions could this harm?
 
Eluvatar:
TlomzKrano:
My own personal statement:
While it must be noted that The North Pacific stands against fascism and Nazism in all forms, the use of a liberation in the context presented is not justifiable. The region KAISERREICH currently still maintains an active founder which would thwart any attempt at military action post liberation. This liberation, while potentially well meaning, effectively accomplishes nothing and may even harm future military interactions with the target region. Due to these reasons, I must vote against this proposal
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What future military interactions could this harm?
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Noting that a password can be a important line of defense that is now absent, the region would have much more extensive contingency plans in place as well as actively work to prevent a founder CTE. I'm not totally sure where the rules start but sharing of the founder account to ensure someone is always logging in could.become a thing.

(I'm going to be out most of today do apologies for any ones responses that I miss)
 
Strongly against.

Though I am fully against fascism and nazism in all forms; a liberation is not the right way to accomplish the goal of this proposal.
 
As someone who is not a TNP citizen, my opinion on matters related to the game is not as relevant. However, this proposal touches on issues far removed from the game, and deserves a strong response.

Anyone who is not a total asshole would agree that the existence of spaces, rooted in NS, where Nazi and anti-Semitic material is openly spouted is a mark of shame for our game.

A SC proposal, leading to a useless badge, isn’t going to somehow get rid of Kreich, or any other region tolerating Nazism or anti-Semitism. All that this is going to do is provide Kreich with more exposure, drawing people who are looking for such an open space for their bigotry to it. This Liberation proposal, rather than making NS a better place for people threatened by such ideologies, would make it worse. The appropriate response is to sink it, and hope that similar proposals don’t see the light of day.
 
Guy:
As someone who is not a TNP citizen, my opinion on matters related to the game is not as relevant. However, this proposal touches on issues far removed from the game, and deserves a strong response.

Anyone who is not a total asshole would agree that the existence of spaces, rooted in NS, where Nazi and anti-Semitic material is openly spouted is a mark of shame for our game.

A SC proposal, leading to a useless badge, isn’t going to somehow get rid of Kreich, or any other region tolerating Nazism or anti-Semitism. All that this is going to do is provide Kreich with more exposure, drawing people who are looking for such an open space for their bigotry to it. This Liberation proposal, rather than making NS a better place for people threatened by such ideologies, would make it worse. The appropriate response is to sink it, and hope that similar proposals don’t see the light of day.
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I have to disagree. If this were a Condemnation? Sure. Those are used as badges of honour. So I'd agree with you on that.
This isn't a Condemnation. It's a Liberation with an active native founder. If anything it's much more shameful.

These sorts of proposals are decried by some of you as the start of a slippery slope. Or setting a bad precedent.
Both of which I can't agree with. Setting the precedent of "Nazism and antisemitism is bad" shouldn't be controversial.
And as for the slippery slope? It ends where it starts. With Nazism. Seems pretty straightforward to me.

For.
 
Being featured on the WA page, for literally thousands of people to see seems like a bad idea to me.

RL Nazi groups would beg for exposure to this many people - particularly among a politically-active segment such as NS players.

Why are we giving it to them for free?
 
Guy:
As someone who is not a TNP citizen, my opinion on matters related to the game is not as relevant. However, this proposal touches on issues far removed from the game, and deserves a strong response.

Anyone who is not a total asshole would agree that the existence of spaces, rooted in NS, where Nazi and anti-Semitic material is openly spouted is a mark of shame for our game.

A SC proposal, leading to a useless badge, isn’t going to somehow get rid of Kreich, or any other region tolerating Nazism or anti-Semitism. All that this is going to do is provide Kreich with more exposure, drawing people who are looking for such an open space for their bigotry to it. This Liberation proposal, rather than making NS a better place for people threatened by such ideologies, would make it worse. The appropriate response is to sink it, and hope that similar proposals don’t see the light of day.
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My reasons for supporting voting FOR are very different from yours.

If the Liberation passes, and K-reich's founder breaks NationStates site rules and gets banned by Moderation, this Liberation resolution would prevent tbe K-reich natives from setting a password on their region.

I believe all fascists should be raided, and given 0 protection. Of course I'm a raider who's more or less stopped raiding innocent regions, so we've gotta raid *something.* If it's a region with an anti-semantic or hateful ideology, that's something beyond invasion-worthy.

Fascists do not deserve a home or at least not a home where the Founder breaks NS rules enough to get deleted in the first place.

I've seen it happen before, fascist founder flames people too much or worse and gets DOS (delete on sight) and the next day, their region gets conquered by antifascists. Why wouldn't this be any different?
 
I'm not a member of NPA but have worked with them before and would add that since the North Pacific Army doesn't raid innocent regions, it'd be nice to have this Nazi(there's evidence) one open for invasion.
 
Yuno:
Guy:
As someone who is not a TNP citizen, my opinion on matters related to the game is not as relevant. However, this proposal touches on issues far removed from the game, and deserves a strong response.

Anyone who is not a total asshole would agree that the existence of spaces, rooted in NS, where Nazi and anti-Semitic material is openly spouted is a mark of shame for our game.

A SC proposal, leading to a useless badge, isn’t going to somehow get rid of Kreich, or any other region tolerating Nazism or anti-Semitism. All that this is going to do is provide Kreich with more exposure, drawing people who are looking for such an open space for their bigotry to it. This Liberation proposal, rather than making NS a better place for people threatened by such ideologies, would make it worse. The appropriate response is to sink it, and hope that similar proposals don’t see the light of day.
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My reasons for supporting voting FOR are very different from yours.

If the Liberation passes, and K-reich's founder breaks NationStates site rules and gets banned by Moderation, this Liberation resolution would prevent tbe K-reich natives from setting a password on their region.

I believe all fascists should be raided, and given 0 protection. Of course I'm a raider who's more or less stopped raiding innocent regions, so we've gotta raid *something.* If it's a region with an anti-semantic or hateful ideology, that's something beyond invasion-worthy.

Fascists do not deserve a home or at least not a home where the Founder breaks NS rules enough to get deleted in the first place.

I've seen it happen before, fascist founder flames people too much or worse and gets DOS (delete on sight) and the next day, their region gets conquered by antifascists. Why wouldn't this be any different?
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If and when the Kreich founder CTEs, we can discuss the appropriateness of invading Nazi/fascist regions. For now, more likely than not, they’re just being given free publicity.
 
Guy:
If and when the Kreich founder CTEs, we can discuss the appropriateness of invading Nazi/fascist regions. For now, more likely than not, they’re just being given free publicity.
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They already have the publicity. That train left the station. The one thing to do right now is to leverage that into an action that sets the stage for later.
 
Lord Lore:
Guy:
If and when the Kreich founder CTEs, we can discuss the appropriateness of invading Nazi/fascist regions. For now, more likely than not, they’re just being given free publicity.
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They already have the publicity. That train left the station. The one thing to do right now is to leverage that into an action that sets the stage for later.
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Basically
I've seen Liberations get shot down because they weren't "needed", but later on when they're actually "needed", they don't pass- causing a loss.

This is a different situation but similar too.
 
Syrixia:
It's too late. Gladio already cast his vote.
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The Delegate's vote changes as the vote goes on. Most notably, Gladio is now voting for gameside. It's only too late once the resolution is over.
 
Lord Lore:
Guy:
If and when the Kreich founder CTEs, we can discuss the appropriateness of invading Nazi/fascist regions. For now, more likely than not, they’re just being given free publicity.
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They already have the publicity. That train left the station. The one thing to do right now is to leverage that into an action that sets the stage for later.
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By voting in favour, you’re encouraging more such resolutions. The only appropriate response is to shoot it down for the harm that they cause.
 
Guy:
Lord Lore:
Guy:
If and when the Kreich founder CTEs, we can discuss the appropriateness of invading Nazi/fascist regions. For now, more likely than not, they’re just being given free publicity.
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They already have the publicity. That train left the station. The one thing to do right now is to leverage that into an action that sets the stage for later.
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By voting in favour, you’re encouraging more such resolutions. The only appropriate response is to shoot it down for the harm that they cause.
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And exactly what harm is there in preemptive liberations that are not a badge of honor like Condemnations are treated and which might in the future come in handy in a way that trying to shoehorn one in last minute wouldn't
 
I'm voting for.

Always happy to send fascists to the edge of the volcano.
 
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