Progressive Party

[19:59] * Bel bangs the hammer on the gavel
[19:59] <@Eluvatar> duhn duhn duhn
[19:59] <+mcmasterdonia> my bed is so warm
[19:59] <@Eluvatar> And that's going to be the second line >_<
[20:00] <+Bel> The Seventh ProP Congress is now in session
[20:00] <@Eluvatar> Ahem.
[20:00] <+Tim> aaaaaaand... WE START!
[20:00] <@Eluvatar> It was when I said duhn duhn duhn actually
[20:00] <+Tim> Oh
[20:00] * Eluvatar sets mode -o Eluvatar for #ncpp
[20:00] <+Todd_McCloud> zzzz
[20:00] * ChanServ sets mode +v Eluvatar for #ncpp
[20:00] <+Bel> You didn't bang the gavel
[20:00] <+Bel> That makes it official
[20:00] <+OE> so what's on the agenda?
[20:00] <+mcmasterdonia> It started when Bel said it
[20:00] <+Eluvatar> 19:59 * Bel bangs the hammer on the gavel
[20:00] <+OE> i'm making dinner so idk how attentive i'll be
[20:00] <+Eluvatar> was right before the "duhn duhn duhn"
[20:01] <+Eluvatar> 1. Officer Elections
[20:01] <+Bel> First things first, we need a Congress Chairman
[20:01] * Tim stands
[20:01] <+Eluvatar> oh yeah
[20:01] <+Eluvatar> I second Tim
[20:01] <+Bel> Second Tim
[20:01] <+Eluvatar> I vote nay on Tim
[20:01] <+Tim> Shall I open the vote?
[20:01] <+Todd_McCloud> third
[20:01] <+Tim> .open_vote
[20:01] <+Eluvatar> no we just kind of vote
[20:01] <@FriarTuck> Tim: You're not the chair!
[20:01] <+Eluvatar> when we have no chair
[20:01] <+Tim> Oh
[20:01] <+Tim> Fine.
[20:01] <+Tim> Okay.
[20:01] <+Tim> VOTE!
[20:01] <+Windy> lol
[20:01] <+Kingborough> I vote Aye
[20:01] <+Todd_McCloud> .vote Braglslagl
[20:01] <@FriarTuck> Todd_McCloud: There isn't an open vote!
[20:02] <+Eluvatar> looks like 1 aye 1 nay
[20:02] <+Todd_McCloud> aye
[20:02] <+Windy> Nay
[20:02] <+Bel> Aye
[20:02] <+Tim> 3 aye 1 nay
[20:02] <+Eluvatar> 3 aye 2 nay 8 present
[20:02] <+Tim> 2 nay?
[20:02] <+Eluvatar> me and Windy
[20:02] <+Tim> Oh Elu voted nay
[20:02] <+Tim> That's right
[20:02] <+mcmasterdonia> Abstain
[20:02] <+Eluvatar> wait no
[20:02] <+OE> are we voting on tim's chairness?
[20:02] <+Tim> Yes.
[20:03] <+Eluvatar> 3 aye 2 nay 6 present
[20:03] <+Eluvatar> I erred
[20:03] <+Tim> 6 of us here?
[20:03] <+Tim> No.
[20:03] <+Tim> There are more than 6.
[20:03] <+OE> aye
[20:03] <+Bel> 6 present but not voting
[20:03] <+Bel> Now five
[20:03] <+Tim> 4 aye 2 nay
[20:03] <+Bel> 4 aye 2 nay 5 present
[20:03] <+OE> presents are sort of unofficial abstained votes
[20:03] <+Eluvatar> no
[20:04] * Gulliver (~Gulliver@pool-108-35-123-83.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net) has joined #ncpp
[20:04] <+Eluvatar> those who are present but have not voted yet
[20:04] <+Tim> Gulliver. Voting for Tim as Chair.
[20:04] <+Tim> Aye or Nay
[20:04] <+OE> which is why i said unofficial
[20:04] <+Eluvatar> should not be excluded from the denominator
[20:04] * ChanServ sets mode +v Gulliver for #ncpp
[20:04] <+Eluvatar> k
[20:04] <+Gulliver> Chair of the meeting?
[20:04] <+Tim> Aye.
[20:04] <+Windy> yes
[20:04] <+Gulliver> Aye
[20:04] <+Eluvatar> *Congress
[20:04] <+mcmasterdonia> Aye
[20:05] <+Eluvatar> that's six in favor of eleven total present
[20:05] --ChanServ-- You have been opped on #ncpp by Eluvatar
[20:05] * ChanServ sets mode +o Tim for #ncpp
[20:05] <+mcmasterdonia> Lets just get started
[20:05] <+Eluvatar> .chair Tim
[20:05] <@FriarTuck> Eluvatar: Done.
[20:05] * Tim bangs the gavel
[20:05] <@Tim> Heyall
[20:05] <+Eluvatar> wait of 12 present
[20:05] <+Eluvatar> OH WELL
[20:05] <@Tim> .......should we poke people
[20:05] <+Eluvatar> but some 'present' people aren't actually here
[20:05] <+Eluvatar> like Myroria and Wham
[20:05] <@Tim> Wham is lurking like a pro
[20:05] <+OE> ^
[20:05] <+Eluvatar> 20:00 -!- mode/#ncpp [+v Eluvatar] by ChanServ
[20:06] <+Bel> Just kick My and make it a majority
[20:06] <@Tim> Can I kick Gov too
[20:06] <+Eluvatar> er ignore that
[20:06] <+Eluvatar> Please don't kick people
[20:06] <@Tim> I won't
[20:06] <@Tim> So shall we commence?
[20:06] <+OE> yes
[20:06] * Tim looks at the supreme heads of ProP
[20:07] <@Tim> Do we start?
[20:07] * Windy shouts Get on with the meeting
[20:07] <+OE> brb
[20:07] <+Bel> Yeah, might as well
[20:07] * Tim starts
[20:07] <+Eluvatar> I change my vote to Aye
[20:07] <+Eluvatar> <.<
[20:07] <@Tim>
[20:07] <@Tim> Haha Elu.
[20:07] <+Eluvatar> So what's the agenda?
[20:07] <@Tim> Okay. So the agenda is
[20:07] <@Tim> Item 1: Officer Elections
[20:07] <@Tim> Item 2: Expell Anur-Sanur
[20:08] <@Tim> 3: Prohibit Multi-Party Membership for ProP members
[20:08] <@Tim> 4: Party Manifesto.
[20:08] <@Tim> and... is that it?
[20:08] <@Tim> Or did we add more?
[20:08] <+Gulliver> I certainly didn't
[20:08] <+Eluvatar> Bel added Council of Five elections
[20:08] <+Bel> 5. Nominate candidates for C05 election
[20:08] <@Tim> and that.
[20:08] <@Tim> Okay. LETS DO THIS!
[20:08] * Tim motions to bring Item 1 to the floor.
[20:08] <+Eluvatar> second
[20:09] <+Eluvatar> oh
[20:09] <+Bel> Third
[20:09] <@Tim> Item 1: Officer Elections.
[20:09] <@Tim> Secretary and Spokesperson.
[20:09] <@Tim> The Elugarch has what they do
[20:09] <@Tim> But ummm Secretary takes records and stuff...
[20:09] <+Eluvatar> .weight_one Gulliver OE Tim Todd_McCloud Kingborough Myroria Windy Bel KiwiTaicho|Away mcmasterdonia Wham Eluvatar
[20:09] <@Tim> And Spokesperson speaks for us.
[20:09] <+Kingborough> What did they do?
[20:09] <+Eluvatar> the Secretary also counts votes in partywide votes
[20:09] <@Tim> .weight_one Gulliver OE Tim Todd_McCloudKingborough Myroria Windy Bel KiwiTaicho|Away mcmasterdonia Wham Eluvatar
[20:09] <@Tim> hmm...
[20:09] <@Tim> How do I set it
[20:10] <@Tim> .weight_one Gulliver OE Tim Todd_McCloudKingborough Myroria Windy Bel KiwiTaicho|Away mcmasterdonia Wham Eluvatar
[20:10] * Tim swears
[20:10] <@Tim> Elugarch
[20:10] <+Kingborough> eh?
[20:10] <+Eluvatar> Tim what's the problem?
[20:10] <@Tim> FriarTuck doesn't seem to be listening to me....
[20:10] <@Tim> with the weight...
[20:10] <@Tim>
[20:10] <+Eluvatar> It doesn't reply
[20:10] <+Eluvatar> but no it only listens to me on that right now
[20:10] <@Tim> Oh.
[20:10] * Tim facedesks
[20:10] <@Tim> Okay.
[20:10] <+Bel> '1. There will be a Secretary, responsible for administering the records, votes and elections of the party and a Spokesperson, responsible for administering the recruitment, campaigning and public relations of the party.'
[20:10] <+Kingborough> What does that do?
[20:11] <@Tim> Kingborough: It's for voting.
[20:11] <+Eluvatar> Kingborough: for votes opened by the Chair using .open_vote
[20:11] <+Kingborough> Okay
[20:11] <+Eluvatar> weight_one = give 1 vote to
[20:11] <@Tim> Now. Motion to Open Nominations for Secretary.
[20:11] <+Kingborough> Ah, thanks
[20:11] <+Eluvatar> oh Tim you remember Bel claimed to have Abbey's proxy?
[20:11] <@Tim> Yes.
[20:11] <@Tim> I do.
[20:11] <@Tim> Would this be for Co5?
[20:11] <+Bel> Nominate Eluvatar for Secretary
[20:11] <+Bel> Nah, don't bother with that
[20:11] <+Eluvatar> I accept
[20:11] <+mcmasterdonia> Seconded
[20:11] <@Tim> I second the Nominations.
[20:11] <@Tim> Any one else for Secretary?
[20:11] <+Bel> She never decided whether or not to give me it
[20:12] <+Eluvatar> xD
[20:12] * Tim asks for other nominations for secretary.
[20:12] <+Eluvatar> I nominate Gulliver for the evulz
[20:12] <@Tim> I second.
[20:12] <@Tim>
[20:12] <@Tim> Nominations are now closing.
[20:12] <@Tim> aaaaand...
[20:12] <@Tim> Closed.
[20:12] <@Tim>
[20:12] <@Tim> Motion to vote.
[20:12] <+Bel> Second
[20:12] <+Eluvatar> uh
[20:12] * Grosseschnauzer (Mibbit@173-17-12-56.client.mchsi.com) has joined #ncpp
[20:12] <+Eluvatar> so we vote now?
[20:13] <+Gulliver> .vote Eluvatar
[20:13] <@FriarTuck> Gulliver: There isn't an open vote!
[20:13] <+Gulliver> NO
[20:13] <+Eluvatar> The chair has to open a vote first XD
[20:13] * Tim looks at Elu.
[20:13] <+Gulliver> Oh look it's Grosse
[20:13] <@Tim> Yes we do.
[20:13] <@Tim> .open_vote
[20:13] <@FriarTuck> Tim: Vote opened!
[20:13] <+Eluvatar> .vote Abstain
[20:13] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Abstain bringing it to 1
[20:13] <@Tim> .vote BLAGLSLAGL
[20:13] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Blaglslagl bringing it to 1
[20:13] <+Bel> .vote Eluvatar
[20:13] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Eluvatar bringing it to 1
[20:13] <+Eluvatar> D:
[20:13] <+Gulliver> .vote Eluvatar
[20:13] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Eluvatar bringing it to 2
[20:13] <+Eluvatar> Tim...
[20:13] <@Tim> .vote Eluvatar
[20:13] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes removed from Blaglslagl leaving it at 0
[20:13] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Eluvatar bringing it to 3
[20:13] * Tim pokes everyone to vote god damn it >.>
[20:13] <+Kingborough> .vote Eluvatar
[20:13] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Eluvatar bringing it to 4
[20:13] <+mcmasterdonia> .vote Eluvatar
[20:13] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Eluvatar bringing it to 5
[20:14] <+Windy> .vote Eluvatar
[20:14] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Eluvatar bringing it to 6
[20:14] <@Tim> One more?
[20:14] <@Tim> Right?
[20:14] <+Eluvatar> mmh
[20:14] * Tim pokes Windy
[20:14] * Eluvatar pokes Myroria Wham Todd_McCloud KiwiTaicho|Away
[20:14] <+Eluvatar> he voted
[20:14] <@Tim> Oh yeah
[20:15] * Tim facedesks again
[20:15] * Eluvatar pokes OE too for good measure
[20:15] <+Eluvatar> we can talk about Spokesperson now I would think?
[20:15] <@Tim> Could Gulliver withdraw right now
[20:15] <+Eluvatar> while we wait?
[20:15] <@Tim> Spokesperson speaks for the party.
[20:15] <+Kingborough> sure?
[20:15] <@Tim> I nominate Abbey for the srs. And Tim for the lulz
[20:15] <+Eluvatar> also recruits
[20:15] <+Eluvatar> I second Abbey
[20:16] <+Bel> Third Abbey
[20:16] <+Windy> me!
[20:16] <+Eluvatar> second
[20:16] <+mcmasterdonia> I vote Abbey
[20:16] * Tim votes Abbey
[20:16] <+mcmasterdonia> I'll be prepared to assist her as deputy, if thats in order
[20:16] <@Tim> Can I use executive Decision and say Eluvatar won Secretary ...
[20:17] <@Tim> Wait... he did. Since Elu Abstained
[20:17] <@Tim> Didn't he...
[20:17] <+Eluvatar> oh true
[20:17] <@Tim> .close_vote
[20:17] <@FriarTuck> Tim: Closing the vote.
[20:17] <@FriarTuck> Eluvatar:6;Abstain:1
[20:17] <@FriarTuck> Eluvatar got the most votes with 6 out of 6 (1 abstentions)
[20:17] <@FriarTuck> Eluvatar got a majority of the votes
[20:17] <@Tim> Eluvatar is the new Secretary!
[20:17] <@Tim> Whoo!
[20:17] <+Windy> Congratulations Secretary Eluvatar!
[20:17] * Bel applauds
[20:17] <@Tim> That's closed and stuff. Now. Spokesperson noms.
[20:17] <@Tim> Abbey.
[20:17] <@Tim> Anyone else?
[20:17] <+Eluvatar> Thank you all
[20:17] <+Bel> Congratulations Comrade Secretary
[20:17] <+Bel> I believe Windy
[20:17] <+Windy> ME!
[20:17] * Tim nods
[20:17] <+Eluvatar> indeed
[20:18] <@Tim> I'll second for the sake of competition.
[20:18] <+Kingborough> What does spokesperson do exactly?
[20:18] <@Tim> Spokesperson speaks for the party and recruits.
[20:18] <+Bel> '1. There will be a Secretary, responsible for administering the records, votes and elections of the party and a Spokesperson, responsible for administering the recruitment, campaigning and public relations of the party.'
[20:18] <+Kingborough> Okay
[20:18] <@Tim> Okay. Vote is going to start. The Candidates are Windy and Abbey.
[20:18] <@Tim> .open_vote
[20:18] <@FriarTuck> Tim: Vote opened!
[20:18] <@Tim> .vote Abbey
[20:18] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Abbey bringing it to 1
[20:18] <+Bel> .vote Abbey
[20:18] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Abbey bringing it to 2
[20:18] <+mcmasterdonia> Eugh. Can I run as well?
[20:18] <+Kingborough> .vote Abbey
[20:18] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Abbey bringing it to 3
[20:18] <+mcmasterdonia> Never mind
[20:18] <+mcmasterdonia> .vote abbey
[20:18] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Abbey bringing it to 4
[20:18] <@Tim> McM
[20:18] <+Eluvatar> I wanted to nom mcmasterdonia D:
[20:19] <@Tim> .close_vote
[20:19] <@FriarTuck> Tim: Closing the vote.
[20:19] <@Tim> >.>
[20:19] <@FriarTuck> Abbey:4
[20:19] <+Bel> Re-vote?
[20:19] <@FriarTuck> Abbey got the most votes with 4 out of 4 (0 abstentions)
[20:19] <@FriarTuck> Abbey got a majority of the votes
[20:19] <@Tim> Re-vote.
[20:19] <+Eluvatar> sure
[20:19] <@Tim> Now. Who else goes in.
[20:19] <+Eluvatar> I nominate mcmasterdonia
[20:19] <+Kingborough> I second Mcmaster
[20:19] <+Bel> Third
[20:19] <@Tim> .open_vote
[20:19] <@FriarTuck> Tim: Vote opened!
[20:19] <+mcmasterdonia> Or nominate me for Deputy?
[20:19] <@Tim> .vote Abbey
[20:19] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Abbey bringing it to 1
[20:19] <+mcmasterdonia> ALright ok
[20:19] <+Bel> .vote Abbey
[20:19] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Abbey bringing it to 2
[20:19] <+Kingborough> .vote Mcmasterdonia
[20:19] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Mcmasterdonia bringing it to 1
[20:19] <+Eluvatar> .vote ABSTAIN
[20:19] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Abstain bringing it to 1
[20:19] <+mcmasterdonia> .vote Abbey
[20:19] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Abbey bringing it to 3
[20:19] * Tim violently pokes everyone else
[20:20] <+Eluvatar> Todd_McCloud!
[20:20] <@Tim> Windy.
[20:20] <+Gulliver> .vote mcmasterdonia
[20:20] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Mcmasterdonia bringing it to 2
[20:20] <+Windy> .vote abstain
[20:20] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Abstain bringing it to 2
[20:20] <+OE> back
[20:20] <+OE> whats at vote
[20:20] <@Tim> OE. Vote for Spkesperson
[20:20] <@Tim> Abbey, McM or Windy
[20:20] <+OE> i burned myself on the oven
[20:20] <+Eluvatar> Abbey, mcmasterdonia, or windy
[20:20] <+OE> ah okay
[20:20] <+Eluvatar> and um we should be stating our second preferences
[20:20] <+OE> .vote abstain
[20:20] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Abstain bringing it to 3
[20:20] <+Eluvatar> My second preference is mcmasterdonia
[20:21] <+Eluvatar> wait I abstained
[20:21] <+Eluvatar> lul
[20:21] <@Tim> Haha
[20:21] <+Eluvatar> I don't have one XD
[20:21] <+Kingborough> My second preference is Abbey
[20:21] <@Tim> My second pref is McM
[20:21] <+Bel> That's a majority of votes. Abbey/MCM/Abstain
[20:21] <+Eluvatar> um
[20:21] <+Eluvatar> but no candidate has a majority of those here excluding abstain
[20:21] <@Tim> Votes: Abbey 3, McM 2, Abstain 3
[20:21] <+Eluvatar> I think?
[20:21] <@Tim> 4 voters left.
[20:21] <+Eluvatar> 3/9 vs 2/9
[20:22] <+Kingborough> We need one more vote on Abbey or two more on McM
[20:22] <+Kingborough>
[20:22] <@Tim> TODD_MCCLOUD
[20:22] <+Eluvatar> no 2 more on Abbey or 3 more on mcm
[20:22] <+Bel> Well, unless someone else votes or people change their votes we're stuck
[20:22] * Tim pressures Windy to change vote
[20:22] <+Eluvatar> A reasonable time limit can be imposed by the chair I suppose
[20:22] * Tim pressures Elu to change vote
[20:22] <+Bel> Unless we start brining people into ProP to break the tie
[20:22] <@Tim> 10 minutes.
[20:22] <+mcmasterdonia> Vote to make Abbey secretary, and I'll be runner up just in case
[20:22] <+Kingborough> How do I change a vote?
[20:22] <@Tim> re-vote
[20:22] <+Gulliver> .vote Abbey
[20:22] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes removed from Mcmasterdonia leaving it at 1
[20:22] <+mcmasterdonia> and can assist her when she is busy with exams
[20:22] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Abbey bringing it to 4
[20:22] <+Gulliver> Just revote
[20:22] <+Eluvatar> er, spokesperson surely
[20:22] <+Gulliver> With the same command
[20:22] <+Kingborough> .vote abbey
[20:22] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes removed from Mcmasterdonia leaving it at 0
[20:22] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Abbey bringing it to 5
[20:22] <+mcmasterdonia> Yeah spokesperson
[20:22] <@Tim> Abbey... wins I'd say.
[20:23] <+Eluvatar> 5/9
[20:23] <+Eluvatar> yes
[20:23] <@Tim> .close_vote
[20:23] <@FriarTuck> Tim: Closing the vote.
[20:23] <@FriarTuck> Abstain:3;Abbey:5
[20:23] <+Kingborough> Sorry McM
[20:23] <@FriarTuck> Abbey got the most votes with 5 out of 5 (3 abstentions)
[20:23] <@FriarTuck> Abbey got a majority of the votes
[20:23] <+Gulliver> Eluvatar, you should program the script to recognize preferential voting <___<
[20:23] <+Gulliver> >_____________________________________>
[20:23] <@Tim> >______________________________________________>
[20:23] <+mcmasterdonia> Kingborough, I wanted you to do that
[20:23] <+Eluvatar> But that would involve parsing a more complicated vooote
[20:23] <@Tim> CONGRATULATIONS TO NEW PARTY OFFICERS!
[20:23] * Bel applauds absent Comrade Spokesperson Abbey
[20:23] <+OE> hehe parse
[20:23] * Tim applauds Comrade Secretary Eluvatar
[20:23] <+Eluvatar> XD
[20:24] <@Tim> Okay. Motion to close Item 1 and move to Item 2
[20:24] * Kingborough applauds Secretary and Spokesperson
[20:24] <+Eluvatar> Second
[20:24] <+Bel> Strictly speaking the party at large still needs to vote as well, I believe
[20:24] <+Gulliver> .vote aye
[20:24] <@FriarTuck> Gulliver: There isn't an open vote!
[20:24] <+Eluvatar> 2. Any member may convoke a Congress whose business shall be to elect one or more Officers at any time to any office to which the Congress calls an election.
[20:24] <+Eluvatar> 7. For any part of the final statement of a Party Congress, if the relevant fraction of all party members excluding abstentions vote in favor it will take immediate effect. Otherwise, a seven day vote must be held on the forum, and those who fail to vote in that time will be considered to have abstained.
[20:24] <+OE> brb
[20:25] <@Tim> Item 2: Expell Anur-Sanur/Haxtree from the Progressive Party......
[20:25] <@Tim> Proposed by Bel I think
[20:25] <+Eluvatar> oh as Secretary I'm in charge of elections
[20:25] <+Gulliver> On what grounds
[20:25] <+Eluvatar> so I guess I'm supposed to evaluate that
[20:25] * Bel requests to speak for the motion
[20:26] <+Eluvatar> anyway yeah
[20:26] <@Tim> Request Granted.
[20:26] <+Eluvatar> brb 5min
[20:26] <+Bel> Comrades, I will be brief on this matter.
[20:27] * mcmasterdonia listens
[20:27] <+Bel> Anur-Sanur, aka Haxstree, aka Frak, has been convicted of treason and banished by our allied region, The South Pacific. ProP is a free association of TNP citizens, and as such we choose who to associate with. As a convicted traitor of an allied region, Anur-Sanur is not the kind of person we should have in our party.
[20:28] <+OE> back
[20:28] <+Gulliver> When was he convicted
[20:28] * Tim raises a question.
[20:28] <+Bel> As such, I motion that he be expelled from the Party.
[20:28] <@Tim> Was said treason before or after the treaty?
[20:28] <+Bel> Before. But that does not change the fact that he is a convicted traitor.
[20:28] * Kingborough raises a question
[20:28] <+Kingborough> What was the conviction /for/?
[20:28] <@Tim> Treason.
[20:28] <@Tim>
[20:28] <+Kingborough> on what grounds was he convicted of treason?
[20:29] <@Tim> Specifically, I think Bel knows better.
[20:29] <+mcmasterdonia> I'd also like to say, that we suspect that he was involved in the telegram campaigns in our region
[20:29] <+Bel> Multiple attempts to coup the region
[20:29] <+OE> i believe i read on the forum someone saying that TNP is a place of second chances do we really want to besmirch that title?
[20:29] <+Bel> ProP isn't TNP
[20:29] <+Kingborough> ^
[20:29] <+OE> ah but we are a progressive party
[20:29] <+Gulliver> To be fair, Blue Wolf is a party member, and he actually considered couping TNP itself
[20:29] <+Gulliver> >__>
[20:29] <+Kingborough> Thats only a name
[20:29] * OE sighs
[20:29] <@Tim> I believe that such a move sets a precedent for the future that is quite grim. I'm obviously biased in the matter due to my own situation in the region of Osiris.
[20:29] <+Bel> I don't believe he truly shares our parties values, or is a fit and proper person to be on the party rolls
[20:30] <+OE> so i've become increasingly aware...
[20:30] <+mcmasterdonia> The telegram campaigns he was most likely involved in here, included the one during BW's Delegacy and recall vote against Eluvatar, and the one more recently against Eluvatar during his absence (as well as Durk)
[20:30] <+mcmasterdonia> I'm going to support Bel's motion
[20:30] <+Bel> I should mention that he is also banned from TRR, TEP, and TP
[20:30] * Tim nods
[20:30] <+Bel> He has a history of attempting to coup GCR's
[20:30] <+Kingborough> On what grounds is it suspected that he was involved in that?
[20:30] <+Gulliver> What is the evidence of his involvement in the telegram campaign
[20:30] <+Gulliver> And hah that's a lot of bans
[20:30] <@Tim> Bel. May I ask you a hypothetical?
[20:31] <+mcmasterdonia> When putting the telegrams along side, they are very similar in style
[20:31] <+Bel> Certainly
[20:31] <+Kingborough> With what, McMasterDonia?
[20:31] <+Gulliver> How long has Haxtree been in the party
[20:31] <@Tim> If I get convicted in Osiris, will you motion the same thing with me?
[20:31] <+mcmasterdonia> Also the fact that he fails at it badly, in all regions.
[20:31] <+Bel> Probably Tim, yes.
[20:31] <+mcmasterdonia> Haxtree is also not active at all in TNP
[20:31] <@Tim> Bel. Thanks for being honest
[20:32] <+Kingborough> I therefore second Bel's motion
[20:32] <@Tim> I motion that we wait until Eluvatar returns to vote.
[20:32] <+mcmasterdonia> Indeed. Lets vote!
[20:32] <+Kingborough> I second Tim's motion
[20:32] <+mcmasterdonia> He'll be back soon, open the vote
[20:32] <@Tim> Aye for Expel Frak. Nay for keep dat boy.
[20:32] <@Tim> .open_vote
[20:32] <@FriarTuck> Tim: Vote opened!
[20:32] <+mcmasterdonia> .vote aye
[20:32] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Aye bringing it to 1
[20:32] <+Gulliver> .vote nay
[20:32] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Nay bringing it to 1
[20:32] <+Kingborough> .vote aye
[20:32] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Aye bringing it to 2
[20:32] <+OE> .vote nay
[20:32] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Nay bringing it to 2
[20:32] <+Bel> .vote Aye
[20:33] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Aye bringing it to 3
[20:33] <@Tim> .vote nay
[20:33] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Nay bringing it to 3
[20:33] <+Eluvatar> back
[20:33] <@Tim> We're voting to expel Frak
[20:33] <+Eluvatar> .vote ABSTAIN
[20:33] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Abstain bringing it to 1
[20:33] <@Tim> 3:3:1:?
[20:33] <+Eluvatar> do we need to have a 2/3 majority here to propose it to the whole party?
[20:33] * Tim is not sure.
[20:34] <+Gulliver> Interesting question
[20:34] <+Gulliver> Granted even if it's just a majority 3:3 isn't that either
[20:34] <+Windy> .vote Aye
[20:34] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Aye bringing it to 4
[20:34] <+Gulliver> 4:3 is however
[20:34] <@Tim> 4:3:1:?
[20:34] * OE shakes his head
[20:34] <@Tim> Todd_McCloud Wham
[20:34] <+OE> i don't think it sets a very good precedence for the future
[20:34] <@Tim> ^
[20:35] <@Tim> So do we need a 2/3?
[20:35] * Eluvatar onders
[20:35] <+Eluvatar> *ponders
[20:35] <@Tim> Haha.
[20:35] <@Tim> Eluvatar is actually Onder!
[20:35] <+Eluvatar> I'm pondering whether I want to stick with abstain
[20:35] <+Bel> What, that those convicted of treason by an allied region aren't fit and proper individuals to hold party membership?
[20:35] <+Eluvatar> Are you ondering what I'm ondering?
[20:35] <+Bel> I think that's not a bad precedent to set
[20:36] <+Eluvatar> There is the reasonable point that in both cases discussed, the events in question occurred long before we allied those regions.
[20:36] <+Eluvatar> that said
[20:36] <+mcmasterdonia> Hax was a prop member at the time of said attempt, however, yes?
[20:36] <+Bel> Yes
[20:36] <+Eluvatar> for Tim they also occurred long before he joined TNP
[20:36] <+Eluvatar> Yes he was mcmasterdonia
[20:36] <+mcmasterdonia> The same could not be said for Tim
[20:36] <+Eluvatar> He was during the one for which he got convicted
[20:36] <+Eluvatar> the one during which he was a TSP Citizen
[20:36] <+Eluvatar> Indeed
[20:37] <+Eluvatar> (Bel: am I getting that right?)
[20:37] <+Bel> Yes
[20:37] <+OE> i don't think we should hold people accountable here in TNP/ProP for things in other regions
[20:37] <+Bel> He was active as Frak right up to March 2012
[20:37] <+Bel> When AMOM exposed him
[20:37] <+OE> it's like ex post facto
[20:37] <+OE> but different
[20:37] <@Tim> I concur with OE, though my opinion is obviously a heavy bias.
[20:37] <+Eluvatar> Well it is because we allied TSP after December
[20:37] <+Eluvatar> (ex post facto, I mean)
[20:38] <+OE> indeed
[20:38] <+Eluvatar> If we'd allied TSP in, say, November though
[20:38] <+OE> brb
[20:38] <+Eluvatar> Haxstree would be subject to prosecution in TNP.
[20:38] <+mcmasterdonia> The chairman should abstain if biased heavily
[20:38] <+Bel> Ultimately, the question is whether or not Anur is the kind of person we wish to be associated with
[20:38] <+Bel> I would argue he is not
[20:39] <+Eluvatar> He's certainly dishonest.
[20:39] <@Tim> The Chairman does not wish to abstain since his own situation is related to this.
[20:39] <+Eluvatar> The fact that he was a ProP member during his TSP coup attempt,
[20:39] <+Eluvatar> and the fact that ProP is pro-democracy etc,
[20:39] <+Eluvatar> lead me to think it may in fact be appropriate to expel.
[20:39] <+Eluvatar> .vote AYE
[20:39] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes removed from Abstain leaving it at 0
[20:39] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Aye bringing it to 5
[20:39] <@Tim> Do we need a 2/3?
[20:40] * OE sighs
[20:40] <+OE> back btw
[20:40] <+Bel> Not to include it in the final statement I don't think
[20:40] <+Bel> 2/3's of the full party to pass, not including abstentions
[20:40] <@Tim> So to bring it to the Party Vote, am I correct in that we only need a majority?
[20:40] <+OE> i'm saddened by this
[20:40] <+Eluvatar> I think that's a reasonable interpretation.
[20:40] <+mcmasterdonia> Its democracy in action.
[20:41] <+OE> i mean i'm saddened by the result of this vote
[20:41] <+Eluvatar> That said I don't think there's any evidence that Haxstree was involved in any seditious activity in TNP.
[20:41] <+Kingborough> .vote Nay
[20:41] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes removed from Aye leaving it at 4
[20:41] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Nay bringing it to 4
[20:41] <+Kingborough> I have to change my vote
[20:41] <+Kingborough> Sorry
[20:41] <+Eluvatar> May I ask why?
[20:41] <+mcmasterdonia> There is evidence that suggests that he was, based on interpretation however. Not solid proof.
[20:41] <+Kingborough> I feel that as you say, there is no proof that Haxstree was involved in anything in TNP
[20:42] <+Windy> I don't know what to think
[20:42] <+OE> I agree with King
[20:42] <+Kingborough> and I don't feel we should evict him from the party for past crimes not even in our own region
[20:42] <+OE> and Tim
[20:42] <@Tim> And we are tied again with all 8 active voters here.
[20:42] <+OE> and Myself
[20:42] <+Eluvatar> Kingborough: would you still oppose expulsion,
[20:42] <+mcmasterdonia> Tim is voting that way to not risk himself in future
[20:42] <+Eluvatar> if the alliance with TSP occurred before his crimes?
[20:42] <@Tim> McMasterdonia: Not only.
[20:42] <@Tim> It's a reason, but not the whole reason.
[20:43] <@Tim> I do agree with OE.
[20:43] <+Kingborough> Yes, I don't think the alliance should factor into our decision as a party
[20:43] <+OE> ^
[20:43] <+OE> I def agree with that King
[20:43] <+OE> it's a stupid reason IMHO
[20:43] <+Kingborough> We aren't the TNP, with who the TSP has the alliance
[20:43] * Tim proposes say.. 10 minutes on the other four party members to magically appear?
[20:43] <+mcmasterdonia> So basically we tell our allies, that these alliances mean nothing to us
[20:43] <+Eluvatar> Well it would expel him eventually in that case because we don't include TNP criminals
[20:43] <+Eluvatar> "2. Any member who is convicted of a criminal offense by the Court of The North Pacific will cease to be a member.
[20:43] <+Eluvatar> "
[20:43] <+Windy> Oh
[20:43] <+mcmasterdonia> And that the Prop will not support the prosecution in TNP of those who commit treason in TSP
[20:43] <+Kingborough> Yes, but he is not convicted in the TNP
[20:43] <+Eluvatar> And it is a crime in TSP to try to coup its allies.
[20:44] <+Eluvatar> It just doesn't apply in this case because TNP allied TSP well after the events in question.
[20:44] <+Gulliver> Have we ended the vote
[20:44] <+Kingborough> If the alliance had occurred before the crime, I couldn't stop his expulsion but it doesn't mean I have to agree with it
[20:44] <+Eluvatar> No it's still open
[20:44] <+Eluvatar> it's tied.
[20:44] <+mcmasterdonia> So I repeat, alliances mean nothing?
[20:45] <+Eluvatar> Do you think that TNP law shouldn't say that?
[20:45] <+OE> It may just be me but what is being argued by the people who are for this doesn't even register in my mind, it makes to sense to me and Elu, no offense but i have no idea where you stand on this issue besides your aye vote
[20:45] <+Eluvatar> Or are you saying this party isn't part of TNP?
[20:45] <+Eluvatar> *no
[20:45] <+Eluvatar> um I said
[20:45] <+Eluvatar> 20:39 <+Eluvatar> The fact that he was a ProP member during his TSP coup attempt,
[20:45] <+Eluvatar> 20:40 <+Eluvatar> and the fact that ProP is pro-democracy etc,
[20:45] <+Eluvatar> 20:40 <+Eluvatar> lead me to think it may in fact be appropriate to expel.
[20:45] <+Eluvatar> and TNP law says:
[20:45] <+Eluvatar> 2. "Treason" is defined as taking arms or providing material support to a group or region for the purpose of undermining or overthrowing the lawful government of The North Pacific or any of its treatied allies as governed by the Constitution.
[20:46] <+OE> Someone already said that ProP isn't TNP i know what they mean but come on
[20:46] <+Kingborough> Yes, I know the law says that
[20:46] <+mcmasterdonia> I think that if we take into account that he had prop membership at the time of his crimes, which in so doing contradict our values. We would agree to expel him.
[20:46] <+Eluvatar> Well, we hadn't formally adopted our values yet then, only in a preliminary way, but nevertheless.
[20:47] <+mcmasterdonia> I don't understand what you are saying Kingborough? Are you suggesting that treason committed against our allies should not be punished in tnp?
[20:47] <@Tim> Frak was in the ProP when he did the crime?
[20:47] <+Eluvatar> Yes he was, Tim.
[20:47] <+mcmasterdonia> Or that it is irrelevant to this particular situation, as the treaty was not in place
[20:47] * Tim sighs and ponders changing his vote
[20:47] <+Eluvatar> He joined ProP on the first day I believe.
[20:47] <+Bel> Does Anur share the values of ProP, both those at the time and those currently? I would argue no. His attempt to coup what is now an allied region proves that
[20:47] <+OE> i think it's irrelevent in this instance
[20:47] <+Eluvatar> Yes, on the first day.
[20:48] <+Kingborough> I'm suggesting that ProP shouldn't be so concerned about it, as we are a political party - not TNP itself
[20:48] <+Bel> ProP is a free association of citizens. As such, we choose who we wish to associate with by granting them membership. My argument is that Anur is not the kind of person we should be associating with, and thus should be expelled
[20:48] <+Bel> Does anyone here believe he share ProP's values?
[20:48] <+OE> I think until he is charged with a crime and found guilty here in TNP we have no right to expel him
[20:48] <+OE> from ProP
[20:48] <+Bel> Does anyone here believe he is the kind of person we should be associating with?
[20:48] <+mcmasterdonia> We have every right, its our prerogative
[20:48] <+Eluvatar> We can expel from ProP for any reason we so choose
[20:49] <@Tim> It seems to me that this is becoming less about treason and more about ProP values. Am I correct?
[20:49] <+OE> i think it's the principle of the thing,
[20:49] <+Kingborough> ^
[20:49] <+Eluvatar> Just as we can accept or decline to accept members for any reason we so choose.
[20:49] <+OE> Association doesn't even enter into it for me
[20:49] <+OE> I don't think we should say ohhh you were convicted of a crime, GET OUT
[20:49] <+Windy> Can we get on with the meeting and discuss this later?
[20:49] <+Eluvatar> I think this question should be presented to the overall party membership.
[20:49] <+OE> that is just dumb
[20:49] <@Tim> No Windy.
[20:49] <+Bel> It was always about the principles. Couping a region who we are allied with clearly goes against our principles
[20:49] <+Eluvatar> A democratic region, as well.
[20:49] <+mcmasterdonia> The fact that he was convicted of a crime against an allied democratic region OE.
[20:49] <+OE> whom we were not allied with at the time
[20:49] <+mcmasterdonia> Not that he was convicted of any random crime
[20:50] <+Eluvatar> But it was democratic at the time
[20:50] <+OE> and not really our business
[20:50] <+OE> until we became their ally and even then unless they ask for us to expel him i don't think we should even be considering it
[20:50] <+Eluvatar> O_O
[20:50] <+mcmasterdonia> So, if he committed it, when we were already an ally? what view would you take?
[20:51] <@Tim> Expel.
[20:51] <+Gulliver> Expel
[20:51] <+OE> i would probably still say it's not our business until/unless they request us to take action
[20:51] <+Bel> You don't have to vote the same way in the party vote as here
[20:51] <+OE> what happens there is their concern not ours
[20:51] <+Bel> Vote Aye, and let the party at large decide
[20:51] <+Kingborough> On the matter its no business of TSP to request us to expel him either OE
[20:52] <+Kingborough> .vote Abstain
[20:52] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes removed from Nay leaving it at 3
[20:52] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Abstain bringing it to 1
[20:52] <+Eluvatar> Yeah we're a political party even, not the region
[20:52] <+Kingborough> I'll break the tie break at least
[20:52] <+mcmasterdonia> Essentially then, you believe, that the prop should not enforce the treaties we make as a region.
[20:52] <+OE> they may request it, that is something very different from taking action
[20:52] * Tim sighs
[20:52] <@Tim> .vote Aye
[20:52] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes removed from Nay leaving it at 2
[20:52] <+mcmasterdonia> Or even consider them important
[20:52] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Aye bringing it to 5
[20:52] <+OE> ProP and TNP are not the same
[20:52] <+Eluvatar> I don't think TSP should get involved in our politics
[20:52] <+Windy> .vote abstain
[20:52] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes removed from Aye leaving it at 4
[20:52] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Abstain bringing it to 2
[20:52] <@Tim> .vote Abstain
[20:52] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes removed from Aye leaving it at 3
[20:52] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Abstain bringing it to 3
[20:52] <+Eluvatar> it would be a legitimate request for TSP to ask TNP to try Hax for treason if he warred upon TSP while TSP was allied to TNP
[20:53] <+Eluvatar> It would not be a legitimate request for TSP to ask TNP's ProP to expel Hax
[20:53] <+OE> call it informal then
[20:53] <+mcmasterdonia> Indeed.
[20:53] <+Eluvatar> 0.o
[20:53] <+OE> a request from one body to another is a request regardless of who it is requested to
[20:53] <+Kingborough> what is required to take this vote to the rest of the party?
[20:53] <+mcmasterdonia> Can we move on and take this vote forum side?
[20:53] <+Gulliver> We have to move on at some point.
[20:53] <+Eluvatar> We settled a while back that it was a majority.
[20:54] * Eluvatar pokes Todd_McCloud
[20:54] <+Kingborough> We don't have one =/
[20:54] <@Tim> Do we have a Majority now though?
[20:54] <+Bel> Proposal; everyone but me votes Abstain
[20:54] <+Kingborough> 3/2/3 is the current vote
[20:54] <+Eluvatar> yeah
[20:54] <+Bel> That way the motion is presented to the party merely by myself
[20:54] <+Eluvatar> with 4 not voting.
[20:54] <+OE> i propose we close this vote and open a new one to move this vote to the forum for the entire party
[20:54] <+Bel> Without endorsement from the Congress
[20:54] <@Tim> OE. that's what this vote is
[20:55] <+OE> o.O
[20:55] <@Tim> We're voting to make this a Party Vote.
[20:55] <+Eluvatar> as it is this vote would do that I guess
[20:55] <@Tim> You know what.
[20:55] <+mcmasterdonia> wut
[20:55] <@Tim> For the sake of time
[20:55] <+Eluvatar> Without a 2/3 majority in favor I wouldn't really call it _endorsing_ it :/
[20:55] <@Tim> .vote Aye
[20:55] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes removed from Abstain leaving it at 2
[20:55] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Aye bringing it to 4
[20:55] <+Kingborough> .vote Aye
[20:55] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes removed from Abstain leaving it at 1
[20:55] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Aye bringing it to 5
[20:55] <+Kingborough> Same reasoning as tim, mainly
[20:55] <+Eluvatar> Well, in this particular case I wouldn't call it an endorsement
[20:55] <+Eluvatar> anyway people can read this log
[20:55] <@Tim> At the discretion of the Chair. The motion passes.
[20:55] <+Eluvatar> and we can also make summary posts
[20:56] <+Eluvatar> .close_vote ?
[20:56] <@FriarTuck> Eluvatar: You're not the chair!
[20:56] <+Eluvatar> xD
[20:56] <@Tim> .close_vote
[20:56] <@FriarTuck> Tim: Closing the vote.
[20:56] <@FriarTuck> Aye:5;Nay:2;Abstain:1
[20:56] <+Windy> haha
[20:56] <@FriarTuck> Aye got the most votes with 5 out of 7 (1 abstentions)
[20:56] <@FriarTuck> Aye got a majority of the votes
[20:56] <+Eluvatar> xD
[20:56] <@Tim> Item 2: Expel Frak
[20:56] <@Tim> Moves to Party Vote
[20:56] <+Eluvatar> okay.
[20:56] <+Eluvatar> SPeaking of
[20:56] <@Tim> Item 3: Prohibit Multiple Party Membership for ProP.
[20:56] <+Eluvatar> In theory I could remove him now because I don't know what his TNP nation is off the top of my head
[20:56] <@Tim> Elu... haha
[20:56] <+Eluvatar> but I think we should give members a grace period of one week
[20:56] <+Eluvatar> to report their TNP nation
[20:57] <+Eluvatar> And I'd like to apply that policy fairly.
[20:57] <+OE> do i need to report mine :O
[20:57] <+Kingborough> ^
[20:57] <+OE> mine is my name for pete's sake haha
[20:57] <@Tim> I think if it's in your RA app and is up to date, you're fine.
[20:57] <+Eluvatar> Yeah Tim is right
[20:57] <+Kingborough> mmk
[20:57] <@Tim> Now. Item 3.
[20:57] <+OE> k
[20:57] <+Eluvatar> I'll PM those who I don't know
[20:57] <@Tim> I motion.
[20:57] <+Eluvatar> and say they have a week to tell me
[20:57] <@Tim> Second me >.>
[20:57] <+Eluvatar> SECOND
[20:57] <+Bel> Second
[20:58] <@Tim> Discussion for Item 3 is Opened!
[20:58] <@Tim> I support the Prohibition.
[20:58] <+Eluvatar> OE is opposed to this one too as I recall
[20:58] <+OE> indeed
[20:58] <@Tim> Can we just move this to vote, or must we argue?
[20:58] <+Kingborough> I also do
[20:58] <+Eluvatar> Let's talk about _why_ for at least 3 minutes
[20:58] <@Tim> Sounds good.
[20:58] <+Eluvatar> .in 3 minutes they're up
[20:58] <@FriarTuck> Eluvatar: Okay, will remind at 01:02Z
[20:58] <+Eluvatar> and then we can think of voting XD
[20:58] <+Bel> I take the view that it depends on the party in question
[20:58] <@Tim> I follow Bel's view.
[20:58] <+Eluvatar> I think that we should prohibit dual membership with any TNP party.
[20:59] <+Bel> Should it share similar views as ProP, I don't object
[20:59] <@Tim> Does Regressive Party count as a legitimate party?
[20:59] <+OE> you can't say that they can only join one or two certain parties but not one in particular that is not cool
[20:59] <+Eluvatar> Yes I would include "joke" parties 'cause I don't want us to have to figure out what's a joke and what isn't

[20:59] <+Eluvatar>
[20:59] * Tim nods
[20:59] <+Bel> But if it's positions are antithetical to ours, I would object
[20:59] <+Eluvatar> and yeah I'd agree with OE there >_<
[20:59] <+Kingborough> I really think that there is no reason for anyone to have double party membership, so why should we allow it?
[20:59] <+OE> it's all or none
[20:59] <@Tim> I support the prohibition. I don't want Reform Party and ProP dual membership.
[20:59] <+Kingborough> Also, I agree with OE
[21:00] <+OE> i do not support prohibition
[21:00] <+Bel> IRL, dual membership is often allowed, depending on the party
[21:00] <+Gulliver> I support it
[21:00] <+mcmasterdonia> I support full prohibition. Including the regressive party
[21:00] <+Kingborough> We can't just ban half the parties because there not cool
[21:00] <+Gulliver> It dpeends on the parties and polity
[21:00] <+Bel> I myself, for example, maintain Labour, ILP and Co-Op membership
[21:00] <@Tim> I support full prohibition as long as temples don't count.
[21:00] <+Eluvatar> I don't think our party system is mature enough
[21:00] <+Eluvatar> for any kind of reasonable fusion
[21:00] <@Tim> We can make the RegP, the temple of Durk
[21:00] <+mcmasterdonia> I think in TNP's case, it kind of needs to be one party... otherwise it'll get overly complicated
[21:01] <@Tim> ^
[21:01] <+Eluvatar> I definitely wouldn't like to see people "party whoring"
[21:01] <+mcmasterdonia> Associating with the RegP will be your own downfall Tim
[21:01] <+OE> i can understand MC's point
[21:01] <+Bel> Could we not have the secretary draw up a list of 'recognized parties'
[21:01] <+Eluvatar> and possibly getting a voice in the governance of multiple parties
[21:01] <+Eluvatar> and voting in multiple primaries...
[21:01] <+Gulliver> Hm
[21:01] <+Gulliver> Yeah
[21:01] <+Kingborough> ^
[21:01] <+Eluvatar> just, DO NOT WANT
[21:01] <+Bel> I don't object to anyone being in Flem's party, for example
[21:01] <@FriarTuck> Eluvatar: they're up
[21:01] <+Bel> As it isn't a real party
[21:01] <+mcmasterdonia> I mean one party in TNP...
[21:01] <+Gulliver> There's no way to make the distinction Bel
[21:01] <+mcmasterdonia> Obviously extra-regional parties don't count
[21:01] <+Eluvatar> Yeah but I don't want to adjudicate what's joke and what isn't
[21:01] <+Gulliver> Flem's party could run candidates if it wanted to
[21:01] <+Gulliver> Even if they were jokes
[21:01] <+Eluvatar> also Flem would claim it isn't a joke
[21:01] <+Bel> Does it contest elections?
[21:01] <+Gulliver> But hey
[21:02] <+Windy> All I think is that once you you would like to become a ProP member and you get your 3 sponsors you are not allowed to ro be in any other party. *Unless* you publicly resign from the party. End of my say.
[21:02] <+OE> how about we allow them to join multiple parties but must select one to vote for primaries?
[21:02] <+Bel> That's a fair way to tell
[21:02] <+Gulliver> A joke party won the mayorship of Rejkiavik
[21:02] <+Gulliver> And another one did Parma
[21:02] <+OE> and make it be known to each party they are in
[21:02] <+Eluvatar> he claimed his motion to exempt Blue Wolf from SC membership requirements wasn't a joke before he said it was one
[21:02] <@Tim> OE. Not a bad idea.
[21:02] <+OE> i feel like that would solve the problem
[21:02] <+Eluvatar> Well currently no other party even has primaries XD
[21:02] <@Tim> xD
[21:02] <+Windy> ^
[21:02] <+Eluvatar> But I'm sure they'll start adopting them later
[21:02] <@Tim> ProP FTW
[21:02] <+OE> judas priest
[21:02] <@Tim> Trendsetters!
[21:02] <+Windy> Eluvatar boasts to much
[21:02] <+Eluvatar> eh?
[21:02] <+OE> so we're debating over something that isn't even a reality?
[21:02] <+mcmasterdonia> I support one party membership.
[21:02] <+Eluvatar> I was boasting?
[21:03] <+Kingborough> I think perhaps, we shouldn't allow multimembership in any party that runs candidates
[21:03] <+Windy> No other parties at all
[21:03] <@Tim> Any party can run candidates
[21:03] <+Eluvatar> That might be sensible.
[21:03] <+mcmasterdonia> All parties joke or not, could run candidates
[21:03] <@Tim> ^
[21:03] <+Kingborough> Yes Tim
[21:03] <+Eluvatar> Kingborough means parties that _do_ run them
[21:03] <+Bel> Once they do though, you have to choose
[21:03] <+Kingborough> Yes, what Bel said
[21:03] <+Eluvatar> so if flemparty started running candidates, then we'd ask all dual members to choose
[21:03] <+OE> I propose, we allow multimembership but make each member make it publicly known which party they will participate in for the primaries (once those are established).
[21:03] * Kingborough nods
[21:03] <+mcmasterdonia> so... every time Flem runs for election?
[21:04] <+Eluvatar> XD
[21:04] <+mcmasterdonia> Or in the regressive parties case, every time JAl runs?
[21:04] <+Bel> JAL doesn't really run
[21:04] <+Eluvatar> oh JAL's running
[21:04] <+Bel> He does joke runs
[21:04] <+Gulliver> I still think it's simpler to just prohibit it unless we really believe it will have disastrous consequences for the party
[21:04] <+Eluvatar> unless he gets his RA membership removed
[21:04] <+Gulliver> BEcause people really want to be in their joke parties
[21:04] <@Tim> JAL is running.
[21:04] <@Tim> JAL is so srs
[21:04] <+mcmasterdonia> Stupid thing is that people actually are considering voting for him
[21:04] <+Eluvatar> Gulliver: OE is talking liberty not best interests of party
[21:04] <@Tim> I would know. I'm his Running Mate xD
[21:04] <+Eluvatar> I think.
[21:05] <+Eluvatar> as in, people having a right to do things unless they are horrible things
[21:05] <+OE> sorry if i have the big picture in mind
[21:05] <+Gulliver> We're a private oganization
[21:05] <+Eluvatar> and arguing that multimembership isn't horrible enough to qualify
[21:05] <+Windy> True
[21:05] <+Gulliver> There is no right to be in our organization
[21:05] <+Eluvatar> True
[21:05] <+mcmasterdonia> and even then... only if it occurs directly in tnp and is prosecutable
[21:05] * Tim looks at FriarTuck
[21:05] <+Eluvatar> it basically says it flat out here:
[21:05] <@Tim> Have 3 minutes passed yet?
[21:05] <+Eluvatar> 1. Any citizen of The North Pacific who accepts Progressive values may become a member of the Progressive Party with the sponsorship of 3 current members.
[21:05] <+Gulliver> Freedom of association protects our right to excluse people
[21:05] <+Eluvatar> yes Tim they did
[21:05] * OE sighs
[21:05] <+Eluvatar> 21:02 <@FriarTuck> Eluvatar: they're up
[21:05] <+mcmasterdonia> a while back
[21:05] <@Tim>
[21:06] <+Eluvatar> And I've heard calls to increase that to 5
[21:06] <+Kingborough> I motion that we take this to a vote
[21:06] <@Tim> Elu: That would be me and Bel
[21:06] <+Bel> Actually, I've been thinking about that
[21:06] <@Tim> Oh?
[21:06] <+mcmasterdonia> I think 3 is enough, personally.
[21:06] <+Bel> I'd prefer an 'object' option to someone seeking sponsors
[21:06] <+OE> i think our party would slowly loose the ability to grow if we increased it to 5
[21:06] <+Kingborough> Any second?
[21:06] <@Tim> I second Kingborough for the sake of time.
[21:06] <+OE> i second
[21:06] <+Kingborough> ^
[21:06] <+Eluvatar> sure
[21:07] <+Eluvatar> let's vote
[21:07] <@Tim> IT'S TIME TO VOTE
[21:07] <@Tim> Do we have any specifics?
[21:07] <+Bel> I'm not sure that the vote will reflect opinion
[21:07] <@Tim> Or just straight up ban?
[21:07] <+Bel> Unless we have a 'somtimes' option
[21:07] <+OE> my specific
[21:07] <+Eluvatar> Well
[21:07] <+Eluvatar> the question is what are we voting on
[21:07] <+Gulliver> Yes
[21:07] <+Eluvatar> there are a couple different proposals on the table
[21:07] <@Tim> I believe OE's proposal.
[21:07] <+OE> just a sec so i can type it
[21:08] <+Gulliver> One topic might involve several votes
[21:08] <+Gulliver> If a proposal fails
[21:08] <+Gulliver> So
[21:08] <+Kingborough> I vote that we choose between the three - Total Ban/Ban Only Selected Parties/No Ban
[21:08] <+OE> Allow Multi party memberships but make the members publicly announce which party they will be voting with for the primaries (once theose are established()
[21:08] <@Tim> I second OE's proposal.
[21:08] <+OE>
[21:08] <+Bel> Prohibit membership of other parties that run candidates in election
[21:08] <+Kingborough> or we could add to more options to the vote as well - OE's proposal
[21:08] <+Kingborough> for example
[21:08] <+Bel> ^ Bel's proposal
[21:09] <+Kingborough> and my proposal, which Bel just repeated
[21:09] <+OE> so wait
[21:09] <+Eluvatar> I think we should first vote Kingborough's vote
[21:09] <@Tim> Aye. So the choices are. BAN ALL, OE'S PROPOSAL, BEL'S PROPOSAL, and KEEP ALL
[21:09] <+Eluvatar> then based on the outcome consider between OE's and Bel's
[21:09] <+Eluvatar> ok that works
[21:09] <+OE> if a party runs a candidate that you want are you kicked out of ProP
[21:09] <+mcmasterdonia> Wouldn't all parties run candidates at some point? joke or not
[21:09] <+Gulliver> So is this going to be an exhaustive ballot
[21:09] <@Tim> .open_vote
[21:09] <@FriarTuck> Tim: Vote opened!
[21:09] <+Kingborough> x_x
[21:09] <+Eluvatar> yes Gulliver
[21:10] <@Tim> .vote OE's Proposal
[21:10] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Oe's proposal bringing it to 1
[21:10] <+Eluvatar> .vote BAN ALL
[21:10] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Ban all bringing it to 1
[21:10] <+Gulliver> .vote ban all
[21:10] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Ban all bringing it to 2
[21:10] <+Kingborough> .vote Bel's Proposal
[21:10] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Bel's proposal bringing it to 1
[21:10] <+Bel> .vote Bel's proposal
[21:10] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Bel's proposal bringing it to 2
[21:10] <+OE> .vote OE
[21:10] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Oe bringing it to 1
[21:10] <+mcmasterdonia> .vote ban all
[21:10] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Ban all bringing it to 3
[21:10] <+OE> oops
[21:10] <+OE> .vote OE's Proposal
[21:10] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes removed from Oe leaving it at 0
[21:10] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Oe's proposal bringing it to 2
[21:10] <+Gulliver> Is Tim familiar with the exhaustive ballot process
[21:10] * Tim looks at Gulliver.
[21:10] <@Tim> Keep knocking them off 1 at a time?
[21:11] <+Gulliver> If none gets a majority yes
[21:11] <+Gulliver> Since there's more than 2 options
[21:11] <@Tim> BAN ALL has a Majority.
[21:11] <@Tim> At this point in time.
[21:11] <+OE> mcmasterdonia, why did you vote to ban all?
[21:11] <+Gulliver> Mm
[21:11] <+Bel> No it doesn't
[21:11] <+Bel> It has a plurality
[21:11] <+Gulliver> Wait no
[21:11] <+Gulliver> Yes
[21:11] <+Gulliver> It has a plurality
[21:11] <@Tim> Bel.... Oh true...
[21:11] <+Gulliver> Plurality != majority
[21:11] <+OE> my head hurts...
[21:11] <@Tim> Windy: Do you have a vote?
[21:11] * Gulliver inserts obligatory lecture on the evils of plurality voting.
[21:11] <+mcmasterdonia> I believe that all parties, joke or not will field candidates at some point. I support ban all.
[21:11] <+OE> Vote for OE's Proposal
[21:11] <+Kingborough> It has a majority of votes so far, but not a majority of total possible votes
[21:11] <+Windy> .vote ban all
[21:11] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Ban all bringing it to 4
[21:12] <+OE> mcmasterdonia, mine is a better option
[21:12] <+Bel> Still a plurality
[21:12] <@Tim> Bel's proposal is knocked out I guess?
[21:12] <+Bel> OE; merger option?
[21:12] <@Tim> Vote between Ban All and OE Option?
[21:12] <+Kingborough> .vote Ban All
[21:12] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes removed from Bel's proposal leaving it at 1
[21:12] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Ban all bringing it to 5
[21:12] <@Tim> Ban All wins.
[21:12] <+OE> how do you mean
[21:12] <@Tim> The Motion Passes.
[21:12] <+Eluvatar> if something has a majority we can do it
[21:12] <+OE>
[21:12] <@Tim> .close_vote
[21:12] <@FriarTuck> Tim: Closing the vote.
[21:12] <@FriarTuck> Oe's proposal:2;Ban all:5;Bel's proposal:1
[21:12] <@FriarTuck> Ban all got the most votes with 5 out of 8 (0 abstentions)
[21:12] <@FriarTuck> Ban all got a majority of the votes
[21:12] * OE sighs
[21:13] <+OE> i never win a vote >.<
[21:13] <@Tim> Does this go to the forum vote?
[21:13] <@Tim> Or no?
[21:13] <+Bel> Yes
[21:13] <+Gulliver> Yes
[21:13] <+Bel> it does
[21:13] <+Kingborough> the second best option won - yay
[21:13] <@Tim> Item 3 is moved to a forum vote.
[21:13] <+OE> Bel, would you like to discuss a merge via PM?
[21:13] <@Tim> Item 4: Party Manifesto.
[21:13] <@Tim> Opened
[21:13] <@Tim> I propose what we came up with in the fake congress
[21:13] <+Bel> Not sure if there is much point OE
[21:13] <+OE> why ?
[21:14] * Tim bangs the gavel on the closing of Item 3
[21:14] <+Bel> Because ban all got a majority
[21:14] <+OE> but perhaps the party will like our merged option
[21:14] * Bel shuts up about Item 3
[21:14] <+Eluvatar> merged how?
[21:14] <+OE> it is going to the party yeah?
[21:14] * Tim glares at OE and Bel
[21:14] <+Kingborough> *sends you to TGs*
[21:14] <@Tim> or PM's
[21:14] <@Tim> or Querys
[21:15] <@Tim> I propose the following outline for Item 4
[21:15] <@Tim> PREAMBLE; Achievements / Plans : Legislative, Executive, Cultural, Judicial; CLOSING
[21:15] <+mcmasterdonia> Do we seriously have to put the charter to a forum vote again?
[21:15] <+Gulliver> Sounds good
[21:15] <+Kingborough> What is our manifesto supposed to be for?
[21:15] <+OE> i thought we already did this?
[21:15] <+mcmasterdonia> ^
[21:15] <+Kingborough> is this the charter?
[21:15] <+Gulliver> This is a manifesto
[21:15] <+Bel> No
[21:15] <+Gulliver> Values != actual policy proposals
[21:15] <+OE> it's party platform
[21:15] <+Bel> Party manifesto
[21:15] <+Gulliver> What OE said
[21:15] <+Myroria> hello sorry
[21:15] <+Myroria> I just got back from work
[21:15] <+Eluvatar> manifesto != charter
[21:15] <+Eluvatar> HI MYRORIA
[21:15] <+mcmasterdonia> right
[21:16] <+Myroria> HI
[21:16] <@Tim> Hey Myroria.
[21:16] <+OE> i say we put it on the forum... we have a big party with many diff views
[21:16] <+Kingborough> Ah, manifesto is your statement about policies, right?
[21:16] <+Eluvatar> How would you have voted on banning cross-party membership?
[21:16] <+Myroria> me?
[21:16] <+Eluvatar> yeah
[21:16] <+OE> OE's Proposal
[21:16] <+Myroria> membership of two parties at once?
[21:16] <+OE>
[21:16] <+Eluvatar> say membership in both ProP and Reform
[21:16] <+Eluvatar> yeah
[21:16] <+mcmasterdonia> I kind of don't think this is really needed... and should be individual candidate type thing... with prop input
[21:16] <+Myroria> for
[21:16] <+Eluvatar> I think we should be somewhat unified
[21:16] <+Myroria> banning
[21:16] <+OE> Myroria vote OE's Proposal
[21:16] <+Gulliver> There's no point being a party if we have no common goals
[21:17] <+Windy> ^
[21:17] <+Eluvatar> I mean, RL the USA doesn't have complete party unity
[21:17] <+Eluvatar> but it does have party manifestoes
[21:17] <+mcmasterdonia> Common goals are outlined in the charter surely....
[21:17] <+Eluvatar> and most of the members stick to them most of the time
[21:17] <+OE> what are we arguing?
[21:17] <+mcmasterdonia> I just mean its common for two prop candidates to face each other in the election
[21:17] <+Eluvatar> Those are common values
[21:17] <+Eluvatar> not common policy goals
[21:17] <+Eluvatar> mcmasterdonia: it's proportional representation
[21:17] <+Eluvatar> we're facing the other parties more than each other
[21:17] <+Bel> I'd suggest we keep it as a fairly broad statement of goals, and leave it for the candidates to come up with their specific platforms *in keeping* with the party manifesto
[21:17] <+mcmasterdonia> Not always
[21:17] <+Eluvatar> Nearly half my votes got transferred to others
[21:17] <+Myroria> I like Bel's proposal
[21:18] <+Bel> So if we say ProP is pro judicial reform
[21:18] <+mcmasterdonia> I mean also in justice elections, vice delegate elections, delegate elections
[21:18] <+Bel> Don't say you oppose it
[21:18] <@Tim> Bel's proposal lost unless OE wishes to move vote to it.
[21:18] <+Eluvatar> I mean we already have a resolution saying we're for fundamental reform
[21:18] <+Eluvatar> and we haven't repealed it (considered it done)
[21:18] <+OE> Pardon?
[21:18] <+Bel> 'Fundamental reform of the Constitution and Legal Code is the top priority of the party.' is a bit generic
[21:19] <+Eluvatar> Indeed
[21:19] <+Bel> And doesn't really say what kind of reform
[21:19] <+Eluvatar> My point is "judicial reform" isn't specific either.
[21:19] <+Bel> It could mean JAL style reform
[21:19] <+Eluvatar> XD
[21:19] <+Eluvatar> Indeed.
[21:19] <+Bel> That was just an example
[21:19] <+mcmasterdonia> Lol. but that wouldn't keep in sync with our values
[21:19] <+mcmasterdonia> So unlikely.
[21:19] <+Eluvatar> I think we should declare that we want our judiciary to convict people who are guilty
[21:19] <+Bel> I'd suggest a brief paragraph setting out what kind of progress we'd like to see in each area
[21:19] * Eluvatar waits for the tomatoes
[21:19] * mcmasterdonia facepal
[21:20] <+mcmasterdonia> *facepalms
[21:20] <+Windy> lol
[21:20] * Tim will be back in 5. Elu is acting speaker until I'm gone.
[21:20] * Tim sets mode +o Eluvatar for #ncpp
[21:20] <@Tim> chair*
[21:20] <+Bel> Elu is the sspeaker
[21:20] <+Gulliver> No
[21:20] <+Gulliver> I'm the speaker
[21:20] <@Tim> Chair* >.>
[21:20] <@Tim>
[21:20] * Kingborough *wonders*
[21:20] <+Bel> Sorry, secreatry
[21:20] <@Eluvatar> *chair lol
[21:20] * Kingborough what is up
[21:21] <@Tim> I meant chair >.>
[21:21] <+mcmasterdonia> This might be easier if we take it forum side, get people to suggest their proposals, and then amendments etc
[21:21] <@Eluvatar> Right
[21:21] <@Eluvatar> hence we propose an OUTLINE
[21:21] <@Eluvatar> and a process for its finalization
[21:21] <+OE> i've zoned out with this
[21:21] <+Windy> What is next?
[21:21] <+mcmasterdonia> Leave the outline to those who propose drafts, then we vote on it after to finalize it..
[21:21] <@Eluvatar> the easiest I think would be to call another congress the day before Co5 nominations open
[21:22] <@Eluvatar> Do we still have time for that?
[21:22] <@Eluvatar> 4 days from now is Tuesday...
[21:22] <@Eluvatar> I think that's the first day of nominations XD
[21:22] <+Bel> Yes, if we call it in the next 22 hours
[21:23] <+Bel> It'd be on the first day of nominations
[21:23] <@Tim> Could we just do it now?
[21:24] <+mcmasterdonia> remember its possible this Co5 will last only a few weeks
[21:24] <@Eluvatar> So?
[21:24] <+Bel> Alternatively, we could not bother with the manifesto for this one
[21:24] <@Eluvatar> It could still implement some policies XD
[21:24] <@Eluvatar> No, never surrender! xD
[21:24] <+Myroria> sorry
[21:24] <+Myroria> co5?
[21:24] <@Tim> Council of 5
[21:24] <+Bel> Draw it up in time for the general election?
[21:24] <+mcmasterdonia> I just think a party manifesto for this one is just a little over the top :/
[21:24] <+Myroria> ah
[21:24] <@Eluvatar> Executive council
[21:24] <@Eluvatar> Anyway it's a good draft for the General Election's manifesto
[21:24] <@Eluvatar> A dry run, if you will.
[21:25] <@Tim> Let's skip the manifesto and just do nominations
[21:25] <+mcmasterdonia> ^
[21:25] * Tim motions to table Item 4
[21:25] <@Eluvatar> I would like the General Election's manifesto to be _good_
[21:25] <@Eluvatar> Wait wait wait
[21:25] <@Eluvatar> can I reread Bel's original call?
[21:25] <+OE> i second
[21:25] * Tim looks at Elugarch....
[21:25] <+mcmasterdonia> I third the motion
[21:25] <@Tim> .vote_open
[21:25] <@Tim> Aye to table
[21:25] <@Eluvatar> "In that case I'd like to add a motion to discuss drawing up a Party Manifesto, in the form of a resolution, for the coming elections.
[21:25] <@Eluvatar> "
[21:25] <@Tim> .open_vote
[21:25] <+OE> .vote aye
[21:25] <@FriarTuck> OE: There isn't an open vote!
[21:25] <@FriarTuck> Tim: Vote opened!
[21:25] <@Eluvatar> Bel: did you mean the Co5 elections?
[21:25] <@Tim> .vote aye
[21:25] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Aye bringing it to 1
[21:25] <+OE> .vote aye
[21:25] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Aye bringing it to 2
[21:25] <+mcmasterdonia> .vote aye
[21:25] <@Eluvatar> .vote NAY
[21:25] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Nay bringing it to 1
[21:25] <@Eluvatar> D:
[21:25] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Aye bringing it to 3
[21:25] <+Bel> Motion to vote on; PREAMBLE; Achievements / Plans : Legislative, Executive, Cultural, Judicial; CLOSING with a future party congress empowered to draft it
[21:25] <+Gulliver> .vote nay
[21:25] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Nay bringing it to 2
[21:26] <+Bel> No, I meant General at the time
[21:26] <@Eluvatar> *adopt
[21:26] <@Tim> .close_vote
[21:26] <@Eluvatar> Oh
[21:26] <@FriarTuck> Tim: Closing the vote.
[21:26] <@FriarTuck> Aye:3;Nay:2
[21:26] <@Eluvatar> HAH
[21:26] <@FriarTuck> Aye got the most votes with 3 out of 5 (0 abstentions)
[21:26] <@FriarTuck> Aye got a majority of the votes
[21:26] <+Gulliver> Maybe we should make a committee
[21:26] <@Eluvatar> Yes
[21:26] <@Tim> I like Bel's idea...
[21:26] <@Eluvatar> we have precedent
[21:26] <+Kingborough> what are we voting on?
[21:26] <+Bel> That was before you declared the snap Co5 ones
[21:26] <@Eluvatar> the Charter was drafted by Abbey and Gulliver and I
[21:26] <@Eluvatar> a committee
[21:26] * Tim sets mode -o Eluvatar for #ncpp
[21:26] <+Eluvatar> Let's have a Manifesto committee which will report back to the Eighth congress
[21:26] <@Tim> I second
[21:26] <+Bel> Third
[21:26] <+OE> so how about you committee folk draft the manifesto
[21:26] <+Eluvatar> we should elect the committee now
[21:26] <+OE> exactly
[21:27] <+Eluvatar> oh and decide how large
[21:27] <@Tim> 4 members?
[21:27] <+Eluvatar> I move that it should be 5 people @_@
[21:27] <@Tim> 5 it is
[21:27] <+OE> i agree 5
[21:27] * Tim nominates himself to the comittee
[21:27] <+Eluvatar> And I think we should let the whole party volunteer
[21:27] <+mcmasterdonia> It should probably be a propotional voting vote open for 7 days, nominations over 3 and if all else fails replace the flag with Rick Astley
[21:27] <+OE> i agree
[21:27] <+Eluvatar> so we should propose a simple thingy
[21:27] <@Tim> Basic outline now?
[21:27] <+Eluvatar> like 3 days to volunteer for the committee
[21:27] * Tim nods
[21:27] <+Eluvatar> and then 3 days to vote on the committee by SNTV
[21:27] <+Eluvatar> 5 people with most votes at the end are elected
[21:28] <+Eluvatar> (allow people to change votes)
[21:28] <+Bel> Full party vote on forums?
[21:28] <+Eluvatar> Yeah
[21:28] <+Bel> Three days from this congress to nominate
[21:28] <+mcmasterdonia> That complicated?
[21:28] <@Tim> I propose a 3 day volunteer thingy for Party Manifesto Writers
[21:28] <+Eluvatar> 6 days in total
[21:28] <+Bel> One week to vote?
[21:28] <+Eluvatar> nah
[21:28] <+Eluvatar> 3 days to vote
[21:28] <+mcmasterdonia> Why not let whoever volunteers participate :/
[21:28] <+Eluvatar> hm
[21:28] <@Tim> I like McM's idea now
[21:28] <+Eluvatar> That would work too XD
[21:28] <@Tim> It's simple
[21:28] <+Eluvatar> Yeah
[21:28] <@Tim> less hastle
[21:28] <+OE> i like MC's idea
[21:28] <+Bel> Yeah
[21:28] <+Bel> Much better
[21:28] <+Gulliver> We just have to pick a time
[21:28] <+Eluvatar> just anybody who volunteers is on the committee
[21:28] <@Tim> McM's idea just won I think
[21:28] <+Eluvatar> yeah we should pick a time now then
[21:28] <+Gulliver> I VOLUNTEER AS TRIBUTE
[21:28] <+Eluvatar> rather than let the committee do it
[21:28] <+OE> that's what i sort of proposed when i said move it to the forum and let the party do it
[21:28] <+OE> like wtf
[21:28] <@Tim> OE gets credit
[21:29] <+OE> haha
[21:29] <+mcmasterdonia> I know OE... i proposed it earlier as well
[21:29] <+Eluvatar> As did I..?
[21:29] <+OE> haha well good job
[21:29] * Eluvatar shrugs
[21:29] <+mcmasterdonia> Omg no em
[21:29] <+mcmasterdonia> *me
[21:29] <+OE> as i said, i zoned out with this
[21:29] * DurkArgh (~Durkadurk@65-19-227-253.vnet-inc.com) has joined #ncpp
[21:29] * Tim waves to Durkles
[21:29] <+Eluvatar> So committee reporting to the 8th congress
[21:29] * Tim agrees
[21:29] <+Eluvatar> to propose Manifesto for General election
[21:29] * Tim agree
[21:29] <@Tim> .open_vote
[21:29] <@FriarTuck> Tim: Vote opened!
[21:29] <+mcmasterdonia> Indeed
[21:29] <@Tim> .vote aye
[21:29] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Aye bringing it to 1
[21:30] <+mcmasterdonia> What
[21:30] <+OE> ^
[21:30] <@Tim> Vote on the comittee thing
[21:30] <+Eluvatar> 21:30 <+Eluvatar> So committee reporting to the 8th congress
[21:30] <+Eluvatar> 21:30 <+Eluvatar> to propose Manifesto for General election
[21:30] <+Eluvatar> ?
[21:30] <+OE> committee or move to the forum?
[21:30] <+OE> i'm confused...
[21:30] <@Tim> .close_vote
[21:30] <@FriarTuck> Tim: Closing the vote.
[21:30] <@FriarTuck> Aye:1
[21:30] <@FriarTuck> Aye got the most votes with 1 out of 1 (0 abstentions)
[21:30] <@FriarTuck> Aye got a majority of the votes
[21:30] <+Eluvatar> by committee I meant whoever shows up
[21:30] <+OE> ah
[21:30] * Tim sighs
[21:30] <+mcmasterdonia> yes
[21:30] <+OE> k
[21:31] <+Eluvatar> well
[21:31] <+OE> it wasn't really clear
[21:31] <+Eluvatar> I wanted to request that there be a committee meeting between now and the 8th congress
[21:31] <@Tim> right after Co5 elections then?
[21:31] <+Bel> Motion to vote that Secretary is tasked with forming a committee to draft a manifesto to present to the 8th Congress
[21:31] <@Tim> SECONDED
[21:31] <+Eluvatar> >.<
[21:31] <+mcmasterdonia> what
[21:31] <+Bel> Keep it simple
[21:31] <@Tim> .open_vote
[21:31] <@FriarTuck> Tim: Vote opened!
[21:32] <@Tim> .vote Aye
[21:32] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Aye bringing it to 1
[21:32] * OE sighs
[21:32] <+Bel> Rather than arguing about how to do it
[21:32] <+Eluvatar> http://alltheragefaces.com/img/usercreated/4fb0c23346532.png
[21:32] <+OE> how with the secreatry organize this committee?
[21:32] * mcmasterdonia shakes his head
[21:32] <+Bel> Just make it Elu's job
[21:32] <+mcmasterdonia> Just do it volunteer wise, whoever participates can
[21:32] * Windy sighs
[21:32] <+mcmasterdonia> .vote nay
[21:32] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Nay bringing it to 1
[21:32] <+OE> i agree with mc
[21:32] * Kingborough comes back to find you all still messying around with it
[21:32] <+Windy> .vote abstain
[21:32] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Abstain bringing it to 1
[21:32] <+OE> .vote nay
[21:32] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Nay bringing it to 2
[21:32] <+Kingborough> .vote aye
[21:32] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Aye bringing it to 2
[21:32] <+Eluvatar> .vote AYE
[21:32] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Aye bringing it to 3
[21:32] <+Bel> .vote Aye
[21:32] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Aye bringing it to 4
[21:33] <+Gulliver> .vote abstain
[21:33] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Abstain bringing it to 2
[21:33] <+OE> i think my vote is cursed...
[21:33] <@Tim> The motion passes......
[21:33] <+Myroria> .vote ayr
[21:33] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Ayr bringing it to 1
[21:33] <+Myroria> oops
[21:33] <+Myroria> >_>
[21:33] <+Eluvatar> wait I thought you were for it before you were against int OE
[21:33] <+Eluvatar> *it
[21:33] * Eluvatar is confused
[21:33] <+Myroria> .vote aye
[21:33] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes removed from Ayr leaving it at 0
[21:33] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Aye bringing it to 5
[21:33] <@Tim> .close_vote
[21:33] <@FriarTuck> Tim: Closing the vote.
[21:33] <@FriarTuck> Aye:5;Nay:2;Abstain:2
[21:33] <@FriarTuck> Aye got the most votes with 5 out of 7 (2 abstentions)
[21:33] <@FriarTuck> Aye got a majority of the votes
[21:33] <+mcmasterdonia> Eluvatar: they are making it your job
[21:33] <@Tim> Eluvatar: Good Luck
[21:33] <+OE> indeed
[21:33] * Bel volunteers to help
[21:33] * Tim volunteers to help
[21:33] <+OE> tim seconded bel's motion which is what we just voted on
[21:34] <+Eluvatar> oh I'm happy to let whoever participate
[21:34] <+Eluvatar> I'll make a googledoc straightaway
[21:34] * Tim motions to get to Item 5 already
[21:34] <+Eluvatar> and make it publicly visible & commentalbe and let whoever asks edit
[21:34] <+OE> i second
[21:34] <+mcmasterdonia> its why it could be done forum side... to let people contribute over a period of time
[21:34] <@Tim> ITEM 5: CO5 NOMINATIONS
[21:34] <+Bel> Just put a link to it on the forum
[21:34] <+OE> ^
[21:35] <@Tim> NOW
[21:35] <@Tim> NOMINATIONS
[21:35] <@Tim> Candidates so far:
[21:35] <@Tim> Eluvatar
[21:35] <@Tim> KiwiTaicho
[21:35] <@Tim> McMasterdonia
[21:35] <@Tim> Tim
[21:35] <@Tim> Abbey Anumia
[21:35] <@Tim> Prince Windsor
[21:35] <@Tim> Belschaft
[21:35] <+mcmasterdonia> Abbey declined
[21:35] <+Bel> Abbey polity declines
[21:35] <@Tim> Abbey removed.
[21:36] * Tim strikes out Abbey
[21:36] <+Bel> Well, not so politely
[21:36] <@Tim> Does anyone else with to stand for Co5?
[21:36] <+mcmasterdonia> heh
[21:36] <+Eluvatar> As Secretary I adjudicate that this is a scheduled election
[21:36] <+Kingborough> Am I eligible to stand?
[21:36] <+mcmasterdonia> a snap election
[21:36] <@Tim> Aye King.
[21:36] <@Tim> I think so.
[21:36] <+Eluvatar> 1. A week prior to any scheduled regional election, the selection of candidates to run in the election will begin. The first five days of this period will be allotted for the selection of potential candidates. After this, another two will be for voting on the final candidates.
[21:37] <+Eluvatar> So we're free to discuss, but there will be a vote of the whole party nonetheless
[21:37] <+mcmasterdonia> So is this the voting phase
[21:37] <+mcmasterdonia> Right
[21:37] <@Tim> No. This is the preliminary "secret control group" phase
[21:37] <+Kingborough> I will stand then
[21:37] <+mcmasterdonia> So... can we just take it entirely to the forum?
[21:37] <+Bel> I believe we can send a recommended party list to the forums to vote on?
[21:37] <@Tim> ^
[21:37] <+mcmasterdonia> ah
[21:38] <+OE> lol Mcmasterdonia wants to put everything on the forum i like it!~
[21:38] <+Bel> Instead of just have everyone vote for whomever
[21:38] <+mcmasterdonia> Its where most of our members will see it And we have that area now
[21:38] <@Tim> So. Now the candidates are
[21:38] <@Tim> 1.Eluvatar
[21:38] <@Tim> 2.KiwiTaicho
[21:38] <@Tim> 3.McMasterdonia
[21:38] <@Tim> 4.Tim
[21:38] <@Tim> 5.Kingborough
[21:38] <@Tim> 6.Windy
[21:38] <@Tim> 7.Belschaft
[21:38] <+OE> i know
[21:38] <+OE> Should I run for something
[21:38] * OE blushes
[21:38] <@Tim> this is for the exec council.
[21:38] * Tim shrugs
[21:38] <@Tim> your choice.
[21:39] <+OE> i really don't think so
[21:39] <+mcmasterdonia> Up to you OE :
[21:39] <+Eluvatar> I'd welcome OE to run
[21:39] <@Tim> The more the merrier
[21:39] <+mcmasterdonia> SO would i
[21:39] <+Bel> I drop out. There are other people on the list who have more time to do the job and who I would be happy to support
[21:39] <+mcmasterdonia>
[21:39] <+OE> lol i've not been active with TNP gov, i don't htink it's a good idea at this time
[21:39] <@Tim> Candidate List Now
[21:39] <@Tim> 1.Eluvatar
[21:39] <@Tim> 2.KiwiTaicho
[21:39] <@Tim> 3.McMasterdonia
[21:39] <@Tim> 4.Tim
[21:39] <@Tim> 5.Kingborough
[21:39] <@Tim> 6.Windy
[21:40] <@Tim> Umm... Anyone second any noms?
[21:40] <+OE> i second all
[21:40] <+OE> hehe
[21:40] <+Eluvatar> My plan is to obtain a list of emails of party members,
[21:40] <+Eluvatar> and fill them in to a CIVS vote
[21:40] <@Tim> Mailing List.
[21:40] <@Tim> Nice!
[21:40] <+Eluvatar> the members will receive an email with a link to vote
[21:40] <+Kingborough> I second all besides myself if required
[21:40] <+Eluvatar> and will rank the 6? candidates
[21:41] <+mcmasterdonia> Ok. I agree with that plan then
[21:41] <+Eluvatar> and then we'll have an ordered list of 5 winners
[21:41] <+Bel> I suggest the following party list; 1. Eluvatar 2. McMasterdonia 3. KiwiTaicho 4. Kingborough 5. Windy 6. Tim
[21:41] * Tim looks... I'm #6?
[21:41] <@Tim>
[21:41] <+Eluvatar> There is no reason to have more than 5
[21:41] <+Gulliver> ^
[21:41] <@Tim> Vote Top 5 now?
[21:41] <+Windy> so?
[21:41] <+Bel> You have the least TNP experience
[21:41] <@Tim> Bel. Fair enough
[21:41] <@Tim> But I have loads of non-TNP experience
[21:42] <+OE> i remove my second of KiwiTaicho b/c he is gonna start a war in the rp :O
[21:42] <@Tim> DUN DUN DUN
[21:42] <+Gulliver> We don't really have any established procedure for voting on multimember candidate lists
[21:42] <+Gulliver> Is it majoritarian or proportional
[21:42] <@Tim> ....yeah.... umm...
[21:42] <@Tim> I have an idea.
[21:42] <@Tim> Vote on the one of the 6 who you don't want
[21:42] <+Gulliver> Hah
[21:42] <@Tim> That would work right?
[21:42] <+OE> i say proportional
[21:42] <+mcmasterdonia> I think we should go with Elu's plan
[21:43] <+OE> what's his plan?
[21:43] <+mcmasterdonia> Party members rank the candidates in a vote
[21:43] <@Tim> Motion to go with Eluvatar's plan.
[21:43] <+OE> the CIVS?
[21:43] <+Gulliver> Condorcet vote
[21:43] <+mcmasterdonia> yes
[21:43] <+Gulliver> Which is majoritarian
[21:43] <+OE> hmmms
[21:43] <+Gulliver> Second
[21:43] <+OE> alright second
[21:43] <+Eluvatar> Gulliver: Condorcet
[21:43] <+Eluvatar> 2. The candidates to put forward will be selected and ordered by a Condorcet vote. Any ties will be broken in favor of the most senior member.
[21:43] <+Bel> Fourth
[21:43] <@Tim> .open_vote
[21:43] <@FriarTuck> Tim: Vote opened!
[21:43] <@Tim> .vote Aye
[21:43] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Aye bringing it to 1
[21:43] <+Gulliver> .vote aye
[21:43] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Aye bringing it to 2
[21:43] <+Eluvatar> .vote aye
[21:43] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Aye bringing it to 3
[21:43] <+OE> .vote Aye
[21:43] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Aye bringing it to 4
[21:43] <+Bel> .vote Aye
[21:43] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Aye bringing it to 5
[21:43] <+mcmasterdonia> .vote aye
[21:43] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Aye bringing it to 6
[21:43] <+Myroria> .vote aye
[21:43] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Aye bringing it to 7
[21:43] <@Tim> Motion passes.
[21:44] <+Kingborough> .vote aye
[21:44] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Aye bringing it to 8
[21:44] <@Tim> .close_vote
[21:44] <@FriarTuck> Tim: Closing the vote.
[21:44] <@FriarTuck> Aye:8
[21:44] <@FriarTuck> Aye got the most votes with 8 out of 8 (0 abstentions)
[21:44] <@FriarTuck> Aye got a majority of the votes
[21:44] <@Tim> Okay. That was easy.
[21:44] <@Tim> Elu: Best of luck again
[21:44] <@Tim> NOW
[21:44] <+OE> hooray for ease!
[21:44] <@Tim> IS THERE A MOTION TO ADJOURN!!!!
[21:44] <+OE> i motion to get the f out of here
[21:44] <+Eluvatar> xD
[21:44] <+Eluvatar> Second
[21:44] <@Tim> IS THERE A SECOND!
[21:44] <+Bel> First, motions for any other bussiness
[21:44] <+mcmasterdonia> seconded
[21:44] <@Tim> Fine >.>
[21:44] <@Tim> Does anyone want to do anything else?
[21:44] <+Bel> Nope
[21:44] <+OE> lol
[21:45] <+mcmasterdonia> I want to go and see my sister
[21:45] <@Tim> At the discretion of me. I adjourn this damned congress.
[21:45] <+OE> i again motion to get the f out of here
[21:45] <+Bel> Seconded!
[21:45] * Tim bangs the gavel
[21:45] <+mcmasterdonia> thirded
[21:45] <@Tim> WE'RE DONE!
[21:45] <+Gulliver> We didn't vote
[21:45] <+Gulliver> On the motion to adjourn
[21:45] <+mcmasterdonia> thank fuck
[21:45] <+Gulliver> :|
[21:45] <@Tim> ....
[21:45] <+Bel> Vote on MC being allowed to see his sister!
[21:45] * Tim used executive order
[21:45] <+mcmasterdonia> omg yes bel. open vote
[21:45] <+OE> lol
[21:45] <@Tim> At the discretion of me
[21:45] <@Tim> .open_vote
[21:45] <@FriarTuck> Tim: Vote opened!
[21:45] <+OE> .vote Aye
[21:45] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Aye bringing it to 1
[21:45] <@Tim> .vote Aye
[21:45] <+mcmasterdonia> .vote aye
[21:45] <+Bel> .vote aye
[21:45] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Aye bringing it to 2
[21:45] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Aye bringing it to 3
[21:45] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Aye bringing it to 4
[21:45] <+Gulliver> .vote aye
[21:45] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Aye bringing it to 5
[21:45] <+Eluvatar> .vote aye
[21:45] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Aye bringing it to 6
[21:46] <+Bel> Y'know, instead of voting you could just ask if there are any objections
[21:46] <+Eluvatar> lol
[21:46] <+OE> praise baby jeebus
[21:46] <@Tim> Does anyone object to getting the fuck out of here?
[21:46] <+Gulliver> I just don't want it to be possible for 2 people to end a congress when everyone else wants to keep going >_>
[21:46] <+mcmasterdonia> ily jeebus
[21:46] <+Eluvatar> shush Bel
[21:46] <+Windy> .vote aye
[21:46] <+OE> haha jeebus
[21:46] <@FriarTuck> 1 votes added to Aye bringing it to 7
[21:46] <@Tim> ADJOURNED!
[21:46] <+mcmasterdonia> This is a vote for me to go see my sister right?
[21:46] <+Gulliver> YAY
[21:46] <@Tim> Yes McM
[21:46] <@Tim> Go see her!
[21:46] <+mcmasterdonia> omg yay
[21:46] <+Gulliver> WAIT NO FORMALLY CLOSE THE VOTE
[21:46] <+Gulliver> DO IT
[21:46] <@Tim> ....
[21:46] <+Gulliver> DO IT FOR THE RECORDS
[21:46] <+Gulliver> COME ON
[21:46] <+mcmasterdonia> Naoooow
[21:46] <@Tim> .close_vote
[21:46] <@FriarTuck> Tim: Closing the vote.
[21:46] <@FriarTuck> Aye:7
[21:46] <@FriarTuck> Aye got the most votes with 7 out of 7 (0 abstentions)
[21:46] <@FriarTuck> Aye got a majority of the votes
[21:46] <@Tim> WHOO!!!!!!
[21:46] <+OE> hahaha
[21:47] <+Gulliver> I also had to recall you there
[21:47] * OE leaves
[21:47] <+Gulliver> TYRANT
[21:47] <@Tim> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[21:47] <@Tim> Cut off point
[21:47] <+mcmasterdonia> I vote to recall Tim
[21:47] <+Eluvatar> lolwut
[21:47] <+Bel> You need to bang the gavel
[21:47] <@Tim> we're off record now
[21:47] <+Bel> To make it official
[21:47] <+mcmasterdonia> BANG tHE GAVEL
[21:47] * Tim bangs the gavel on Bel's head