[WV] The Declaration of a Citizen in Opposition to the Anti-Religious Sentiments that Plague the Region

Wonderess

"I will be true to you whatever comes."
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.wonderess
This declaration is a part of the WondoVerse.

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The Declaration of a Citizen in Opposition to the Anti-Religious Sentiments that Plague the Region
There comes a time in the history of any citizen when a region fails him and makes him despair for its state. I am sorry to state before my fellow friends and citizens that this day has come. It was with great joy that I collaborated with the Ministry of Communications to produce the first episode of my Catholic radio show: The Theologate of Papists. The audience was joining the live broadcast as at the same time rude and insensitive comments were made jeering and devaluing my love and my efforts. The hour that followed of discussion and question was a joy for me, and I honestly felt that those that were a part of it enjoyed it as well even if they were not Catholic or did not fully understand everything being discussed. It was respectful and informative for myself as well as everyone who took part.

It was not long after that my happiness and joy of my accomplishment was stifled by the naysaying of those who did not even bother to be a part of the broadcast, but still attacked it from afar making their own conclusions and judgements regardless of being informed of the occasion. If there is one thing I have learned through this ordeal, my fellow citizens, is how easy it is for the lamentations of the few to ruin something for the whole by their own unwillingness and aversions.

Their protests gained for them their desired reward. Effectively the Delegate has had no choice but to narrow the publications under the Ministry of Communications to regional and NationStates related subjects. The expression and mutual deliberation of ideas through the medium of broadcast has been stifled. My joy and my voice has been silenced because of mere sentiment, and I shall not back down from this harsh reality.

This region suffers greatly from an anti-theist streak where the expression of faith is seen as too burdensome, too limiting, too judgmental to be valid, and so it is silenced or demeaned at every possible chance. This is accomplished not by the great majority of The North Pacific's people, but by that same few who ruin it for everyone.

I ask you my dear friends to not stand for this. If ideas are wrong or misguided then may respectful discourse be the way to correct them, not rude comments, or irreverent jokes. I tell you that TNP is much better than that and deserves better as well. DO NOT SETTLE, do not let others steal away your hope and joy in that which you love or cherish for they could never do it if you do not let them.

The Delegate has now been pushed to ban non Nation States related media from Communications. I wish to advocate for a space preferably in The North Pacific University where broadcasting be allowed to be used for the free transmission of ideas that is academic in its pursuit. This is a community after all. To stifle that conversation and transmission of ideas would be a grave act against that communal spirit, and I will not stand for it.

I wish to fight this movement towards ideological isolation. Intolerance is where this isolation starts. When one is unwilling to listen to the other side, then they are choosing to block themselves off from new knowledge and insight that can aid in the refinement of belief in knowledge. If we are all cornered off then all that is left is stagnation and our own stale and unchallenged viewpoint. I am not just a speaker but also a listener despite how some wish to paint me.

If you the reader gather anything from this then let it be this, I, Wonderess, will fight for this right against adversity and the powerful few who wish to obstruct me. I ask that you join me in seeking the expression of ideas freely through writing and broadcast in this region as a community for the community. It is indeed a worthy and good pursuit and so I ask that you stand in solidarity at this time of crisis. I feel nothing but dismay at this reality, but in dismay I can use what strength I have to change it. I ask that you help me to do so.

In wondrous, invincible, and audacious faith,

Wonderess



 
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I'll just note that you have an area in the TNP University already for catholic stuff and there's nothing stopping you from creating the content you were going to create for Comms for either that or as a private media outlet. It's not even that difficult to do.

On a wider note, I have a problem with the very concept that making 'irrerevent jokes' is inappropriate when it comes to faith - faith is not some magical shield you can wield that means others cannot make jokes about your religion and any portion of it. The issue you seem to have Wonderess is that you think discussion of your faith is fine, so long as it conforms to what is a narrow definition of respect you hold to - you want reverence, but no one owes you, your faith, or anyone else that. Jokes, satire and criticism are all acceptable discourse, especially when talking about organisations - religious or not - that are controversial and have controversial elements about them.

I understand that your faith is a big part of who you are, but this looks a lot more like a you problem, than a TNP one.
 
I'll just note that you have an area in the TNP University already for catholic stuff and there's nothing stopping you from creating the content you were going to create for Comms for either that or as a private media outlet. It's not even that difficult to do.

On a wider note, I have a problem with the very concept that making 'irrerevent jokes' is inappropriate when it comes to faith - faith is not some magical shield you can wield that means others cannot make jokes about your religion and any portion of it. The issue you seem to have Wonderess is that you think discussion of your faith is fine, so long as it conforms to what is a narrow definition of respect you hold to - you want reverence, but no one owes you, your faith, or anyone else that. Jokes, satire and criticism are all acceptable discourse, especially when talking about organisations - religious or not - that are controversial and have controversial elements about them.

I understand that your faith is a big part of who you are, but this looks a lot more like a you problem, than a TNP one.
For full context the current discourse is that TNPU broadcasting is leaning towards only NS related subjects which also closes that avenue off.

As for respect of the faith, I reward respect to all faith and never make demeaning jokes about that which people hold dear. I find it heartless and unproductive except to get a laugh out of a few bystanders. Mutual respect is something that is vital in any institution including this region. There should be an unspoken understanding of mutual respect, and I am sorry that such an understanding is not more widespread. I am the Dean of the Party for Dignity and Honor for that very reason. Catholicism exclusively should not be respected, but all serious ideas and institutions of importance.
 
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Hi, UM here. Just wanted to put in my two cents.

On a wider note, I have a problem with the very concept that making 'irrerevent jokes' is inappropriate when it comes to faith - faith is not some magical shield you can wield that means others cannot make jokes about your religion and any portion of it. The issue you seem to have Wonderess is that you think discussion of your faith is fine, so long as it conforms to what is a narrow definition of respect you hold to - you want reverence, but no one owes you, your faith, or anyone else that. Jokes, satire and criticism are all acceptable discourse, especially when talking about organisations - religious or not - that are controversial and have controversial elements about them.

I understand that your faith is a big part of who you are, but this looks a lot more like a you problem, than a TNP one.
For what it's worth, I think there is a degree of blame here to go around that goes beyond mere irreverent humour. There is an individual in this region whose profile picture is quite literally of a burning convent, and who continues to goad and troll Wonderess just about all the time. In fact, in this very thread, the individual tried to demean and make light of what very clearly is a huge frustration for Wonderess. It's disingenuous to pretend that Wonderess just has thin skin -- there are quite literally people trying to goad him into frustration by poking at a huge part of his identity.

And, on top of that, I think that attempts to shut down an NBS broadcast about Catholicism are rooted in anti-Catholic tendencies, regardless of what the stated reasons may be. It's patently clear that NBS broadcasts run by private citizens don't express the opinions of TNP, but rather provide citizens' perspectives on topics. I don't really see anything objectionable to that. Secondly, I highly doubt that an LGBT or other affinity publication would receive this same level of hostility. In fact, they'd probably be promoted. Considering that faith is a huge part of people's lives, often more so than sexual orientation or other identities, this doesn't quite make sense to me.

I don't hate religious people, only specifically Catholics.
That's nice.

let’s destroy secularism owo
I have no desire to "destroy secularism," to clarify.

Very cool post wondo , thanks for sharing!
This comes off an awful lot like just a dismissal of Wonderess as if he were a child. He's expressing significant distress, and asking to be engaged with -- this is not a moment for "thanks for sharing."
 
For what it's worth, I think there is a degree of blame here to go around that goes beyond mere irreverent humour. There is an individual in this region whose profile picture is quite literally of a burning convent, and who continues to goad and troll Wonderess just about all the time. In fact, in this very thread, the individual tried to demean and make light of what very clearly is a huge frustration for Wonderess. It's disingenuous to pretend that Wonderess just has thin skin -- there are quite literally people trying to goad him into frustration by poking at a huge part of his identity.
Accusations of misconduct, trolling or rule breaking should be directed to the relevant authorities - moderators and administrators. If you'd like to point out the individuality who has this burning convent profile picture, I can act on it.
 
Meh, Flemingovianism is better. :P

In all honesty this was a good post. My only objection is this: Wasn't NBS always supposed to be NS/Regional related? Of course religion is controversial. I definitely don't think this should had exploded to a point where this had to happen but I feel religion is best lectured in our university than to a region wide broadcast.
 
Meh, Flemingovianism is better. :P

In all honesty this was a good post. My only objection is this: Wasn't NBS always supposed to be NS/Regional related? Of course religion is controversial. I definitely don't think this should had exploded to a point where this had to happen but I feel religion is best lectured in our university than to a region wide broadcast.
I completely understand that, and I accepted that policy. However, to limit the University's ability to post non NationStates content in broadcast form is a grave misstep and a limitation on that institution which stands for the free transmission of ideas.
 
And, on top of that, I think that attempts to shut down an NBS broadcast about Catholicism are rooted in anti-Catholic tendencies, regardless of what the stated reasons may be. It's patently clear that NBS broadcasts run by private citizens don't express the opinions of TNP, but rather provide citizens' perspectives on topics. I don't really see anything objectionable to that. Secondly, I highly doubt that an LGBT or other affinity publication would receive this same level of hostility. In fact, they'd probably be promoted. Considering that faith is a huge part of people's lives, often more so than sexual orientation or other identities, this doesn't quite make sense to me.
I'm not touching the situation regarding the whole back and forth between certain listeners and Wonderess during his broadcast, but I will say: I don't think this bit is true. I think it should be examined from a psychological standpoint. Here's my theory.

When people see discussions on religion, they go, "Euuuhhh, that's a touchy subject. Let's not." because religion *is* a touchy subject. For thousands of years people have killed each other over it, after all. There's nothing wrong with faith, but it's not a casually approachable topic in public circles. By contrast, when people see discussions on LGBT issues, chances are, they're less likely to see that as touchy.

For a long time throughout human history, the LGBT community was a marginalized group. From what statistics I was able to find, the majority of the global population is straight, and if you couple that with the human survival instinct that is skepticism of "the other"- an instinct that has also led to such things as racism- it makes sense why, before modern society became more accepting of LGBT people, they wound up marginalized. Granted that doesn't mean it's right- they're people too- so don't take that the wrong way.

My point is, that jump in recent decades from such things as "don't ask, don't tell" to the much wider acceptance of LGBT people on- at least I'd argue- both sides of the spectrum in terms of both politics (from left to right) and religion (from devout to atheist), has created a sort of "go get 'em!" attitude; and consequently, whenever discussion on LGBT issues and/or LGBT rights is encouraged, it's not seen in a touchy light like religion is.

I don't think the Delegate shutting down an NBS broadcast about Catholicism is rooted in anti-religious discriminatory attitudes, and I'm sorry that you and Wonderess feel that way. I think it was well-intentioned, because from what I can tell based on what I know of this situation, the environment was getting a bit crazy. What kind of Delegate would he be if he let it fester unhindered?
 
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In fact, they'd probably be promoted. Considering that faith is a huge part of people's lives, often more so than sexual orientation or other identities
You cannot claim this to be the case across the board though. There are LGBT people of faith for whom their orientation is more important to their identity than their religion. There are LGBT people who are agnostic or atheists whose orientation is more important to them by virtue of faith not playing a role in their lives.
And yes, there are also LGBT people of faith whose religion is more important than their sexual orientation. Still, the point I'm making is that you can't say that faith trumps sexual orientation when it comes to which is a greater part of a person's identity. It's not a universal truth. Human beings are diverse and varied. The priorities of one don't always line up with the priorities of another.

For what it's worth, I think there is a degree of blame here to go around that goes beyond mere irreverent humour. There is an individual in this region whose profile picture is quite literally of a burning convent, and who continues to goad and troll Wonderess just about all the time. In fact, in this very thread, the individual tried to demean and make light of what very clearly is a huge frustration for Wonderess. It's disingenuous to pretend that Wonderess just has thin skin -- there are quite literally people trying to goad him into frustration by poking at a huge part of his identity.
TNP has a pretty damn good mod team. If someone is actually harassing Wonderess and mocking his faith? There are grounds there for mods to look into that.
Hell, I'm a RP mod. If this person is doing this in the TNP RP subforum or Discord? I'll personally look into it and report it to the wider mod team if there's anything to report. We don't want anyone to feel unwelcome, and if someone is harassing Wonderess under our watch? That is, as I said, grounds to start an investigation into the matter.

On the issue of irreverent humour? My father likes to say "G-d has a sense of humour."
I fully admit that there may be cultural disconnect, as it seems like perhaps Jews are more fond of self-deprecating humour (which includes making light of our own faith at times) compared to Catholics, so maybe what I would consider good fun isn't on that level to a Catholic? I don't know, but I don't think simple jokes, even aimed at faith, are a problem.

And, on top of that, I think that attempts to shut down an NBS broadcast about Catholicism are rooted in anti-Catholic tendencies
I'm unsure about that. As MJ said, TNP University has an entire section dedicated to Catholic discussion. This doesn't happen in an anti-Catholic environment.

You threw up the comparison between a broadcast about Catholicism and a broadcast about LGBT issues. Which is an apples and oranges comparison, in my opinion. As both a gay man and a person of faith? The two are separate parts of my life. You might as well compare me being religious with being a Toronto Maple Leafs fan. They're two distinct and separate parts of who I am.

So a better comparison would be.... what if the NBS gave Nightsong and myself a show to promote Judaism/talk about the Jewish religion? Would that have received the same backlash? Honestly? I think it would.
So this leave us with a few possibilities. First, that TNP is hostile towards faith, regardless of which faith in particular we're talking about. Or it means that TNP simply values secularism within its government institutions.

The thing is I appreciate the spirit of what @Wonderess is trying to do here, to be honest. My own attitude has always been that faith or lack of faith is a private matter. I tend to dislike people proselytizing to me. Which has put me in conflict with some Christians before, but over the last ten years or so? It's put me in conflict with atheists as well, who think I want their worldview pushed on me.
So I appreciate the spirit of what Wonderess is doing. And to be honest? I wish we could maybe have NBS shows where we talk about all sorts of stuff, including various religions, without people freaking out over it.
I am certainly open to the idea that we ought to push back against hostility towards people of faith.

With that said? I'll be honest. I've never shied away from my faith. At the same time? I've never felt unwanted or put down upon because of my faith here.
I think there is a real discussion to be had about a militant attitude some have in shutting down people who hold religious beliefs, but I don't think such attitude is widespread in TNP.
 
I completely understand that, and I accepted that policy. However, to limit the University's ability to post non NationStates content in broadcast form is a grave misstep and a limitation on that institution which stands for the free transmission of ideas.
Has this happened? I'm unaware of any statement on this matter from the Chancellor of the University, the Minister of Culture, or the delegate.
 
Has this happened? I'm unaware of any statement on this matter from the Chancellor of the University, the Minister of Culture, or the delegate.
I'm both a Deputy Chancellor of the University and Minister of Culture. I've yet to hear anything on this. The University being a place to discuss all matter of topics, even outside of the NS sphere, has always been one of its strengths.

If this change to NS-only content is indeed happening it's something I'll have to have words with over.
 
Has this happened? I'm unaware of any statement on this matter from the Chancellor of the University, the Minister of Culture, or the delegate.
The last I heard of the conversation, all private and public media related to The North Pacific would be limited to NS subjects only. This is the basis by which I have sought legal action.
 
The last I heard of the conversation, all private and public media related to The North Pacific would be limited to NS subjects only. This is the basis by which I have sought legal action.
If this is something the Chancellor is doing? I'll put a stop to it. If it's being mandated from above? I'm going to have to find out who's circumnavigating the Minister of Culture's office, as that mandate didn't come from me.
 
If this is something the Chancellor is doing? I'll put a stop to it. If it's being mandated from above? I'm going to have to find out who's circumnavigating the Minister of Culture's office, as that mandate didn't come from me.
No this is a Delegate policy that has come about due to the complaints of the "privileged few"
 
TNPU was being grouped with the "private media" which was being limited to NS subjects only.
Well Pry has stated that he will put a stop to the whole block on TNPU. Banning non NS stuff from TNPU hurts the University deeply since its roots are also certained within that.
 
Since when can the Executive can control what is posted in the Private Media? Definitely doesn't sound like that could be abused...

(will post my thoughts on this later)
 
Well Pry has stated that he will put a stop to the whole block on TNPU. Banning non NS stuff from TNPU hurts the University deeply since its roots are also certained within that.
So this is about broadcasting specifically and not written media. The Delegate is making that decision which outranks Prydania's authority.
 
The last I heard of the conversation, all private and public media related to The North Pacific would be limited to NS subjects only. This is the basis by which I have sought legal action.
Surely this just relates to the Ministry of Communications?
 
Surely this just relates to the Ministry of Communications?
I literally asked about TNPU. It was said that it would be publishing media under the private distinction or in its own channel but the NS only policy would apply. Thus far this has been stated in the Government Discord, but Fiji said he plans to publish it in the forum soon.
 
And was permission for public disclosure of this policy given?
I asked Fiji if he planned to publish the standard publicly, and he said yes. The Delegate and myself have an understanding, and I do not seem him as the opposition in my endeavor.
 
I asked Fiji if he planned to publish the standard publicly, and he said yes. The Delegate and myself have an understanding, and I do not seem him as the opposition in my endeavor.
Wait, Fiji is not the opposition...? Is he not the one who implemented the policy?
 
Wait, Fiji is not the opposition...? Is he not the one who implemented the policy?
He implemented the policy because of pressure from others which I shall continue to affectionately call "the privileged few." It is the process that is the issue not the policy itself. I understand not wanting the show under the NBS banner, but it is the complete censoring and blocking of non NS media that I am opposing.
 
He implemented the policy because of pressure from others which I shall continue to affectionately call "the privileged few." It is the process that is the issue not the policy itself. I understand not wanting the show under the NBS banner, but it is the complete censoring and blocking of non NS media that I am opposing.
What is stopping you from doing the show separately?
 
He implemented the policy because of pressure from others which I shall continue to affectionately call "the privileged few." It is the process that is the issue not the policy itself. I understand not wanting the show under the NBS banner, but it is the complete censoring and blocking of non NS media that I am opposing.
Who are these privileged few?
 
I think it's best that I clarify not just on my current positions, but the history of thought that has gone into NBS to clear up some of the confusion that I've noticed.
In the early days of NBS, eleven episodes were produced under the TNP NBS banner using Mixlr and Google Drive to publicize the recordings. These shows were intended as a political podcast to routinely discuss recent TNP and NS events in an open forum, allowing each person to share their own opinions. As private citizens, it is obvious that these opinions are not necessarily representative of official TNP government views, and there was never any misunderstandings in this regard. Following the eleventh broadcast, NBS essentially went inactive for many months.

That is, until I joined The North Pacific and took interest in bootsie radio and NBS, uncovering each old episode with an eagerness to approach each episode as a sort of time capsule from the past. It wasn't long before I wanted to bring the program back, and build it into something TNP could be proud of. Inspired by Europeia's EBC Radio, I took to creating TNP Tutorial videos in an effort to help other newcomers like myself become interested in NS. Soon enough, I hosted episode twelve of the official NBS show, and a few more shows after that. By then I was Minister of Communications, and the NBS videos that followed were continuations of that progress. NBS never really grew to its full potential, but that was one of the ideas upon which I built my delegacy campaign.

I'd really like to see NBS become much more active, but in order for that to happen, it can't just be two people who know how to record and upload episodes. I had hoped that NBS could be a real boon to all of the Ministries, and serve as an outlet for all sorts of new shows in official capacities. I had an idea that TNP's University could take on the TNP Tutorial Series and build it into a huge archive of public help videos, guiding and training newcomers in our regional dynamic and Ministry functionalities. This could help both with recruitment and retention. Additionally, I had hoped that TNPU could use NBS to sponsor debates on a wide variety of topics, including potentially IRL ones. The Ministry of Culture was also planning on using NBS to help promote RP, and WA Affairs could use NBS to showcase particularly important IFVs or train newcomers on WA resolution writing, WALL, and how the WA works in detail.

Moreover, the more people are involved, the more active NBS will be. A great way of encouraging that is to allow people to produce their own shows and post it on the platform. These ideas were first expressed in January of this year, when I made a post describing a handful of show ideas that could be worked into the NBS banner. This is a vital step for NBS to become more active and interesting.

Furthermore, I made a specific effort to integrate private news sources into the NBS platform. Doing so makes it easier for private citizens to find content they like, which boosts view counts, and it's just a lot easier because people don't have to subscribe to multiple separate YouTube channels. It's like having to access a new Discord server each time you switch topics. One of the great things behind my idea for NBS was that an integrated platform would help drive activity, and frequent uploads would draw viewers to the platform.

This was my vision for NBS, and I hoped it would be a centerpiece of my delegacy.

Naturally - and as before - the same policy applies that private citizens speak only on their own behalf, and TNP government views are not necessarily a part of that. Additionally, I made sure to put a disclaimer at the start of each NBS News Show I have personally produced stating as such. In fact, the wide majority of the content already on NBS is not government opinion, so much so that you'd be hard pressed to find anything that is.

When the topic of NBS shows was brought up in VC the other day, I encouraged Wonderess to create his own show. If we're going to have third-party creators post on NBS, it's only fair that we do not discriminate based on the content of those shows. If someone isn't interested, then they can just skip that one. Furthermore, I felt that it would violate his freedom of speech and freedom of religion as is enshrined within the Bill of Rights of our region to refuse him.

When NBS then made its first Catholic Show recording, there was an outpouring of outrage against the concept. While I had expected some to disagree with the contents of the show, I had not expected outright hostility against the idea itself. However, the questions they posed make a certain amount of sense, and is something that was going to come up eventually.

It is natural to wonder, at some point, where we draw the line on content that is published on our platform. The policy at that time was that all content published must first be screened by the Ministry of Communications, and that any obviously offensive or inherently inappropriate material would be barred from access to the platform. While ideally, NBS shows would focus only on NS-related content, I was not averse to having non-NS content featured, as can be seen by the sports channel that was to be hosted by Bobberino (which unfortunately never happened), and the TNPU debates I was looking forward to.

In my conversations in #northern_broadcast_service and in private last night, I spoke with a pretty large handful of people. I read comments made by Robespierre, bootsie, Darcania, Wonderess, Dino, McM, UM, Brendog, and I'm sure a few others. Through those conversations, it became apparent to me that there was a need for clarification on the intent of NBS and perhaps a change in policy. Simply allowing any content on the platform is clearly not going to work, and as more non-NS material gets posted on the YouTube channel, the greater the likelihood that someone will object to controversial topics being given an amplified voice on the platform.

Simply barring non-NS-related content from the YouTube channel makes a certain amount of sense. While such a blanket ban may accidentally catch IRL-based shows that most everyone may support (like IRL election coverage/debates), it prevents the platform from being abused. It provides a clear-cut way for the Ministry of Communications and TNP government to make rulings based on what can and can't be published on the platform without having to judge the subjective value or intent of the production.

The idea was floated that a separate Private Media YouTube channel could be created to clearly and unquestionably distinguish privately produced media from official TNP-sponsored NBS media. However, this Private Media YouTube channel would still be under the Ministry of Communication's purview, and thus a part of the TNP government. It would still be a location in which shows published here would be given an amplified voice based on the platform they're on. That's the reasoning for why the Private Media YouTube channel should be restricted to NS-only topics if the main NBS YouTube channel is. Not doing so would mean that we may as well have all content on the same YouTube Channel, and distinguish between government endorsed content and private media via the use of playlists (the former policy).

While the argument can be brought that restricting any given show is a violation of a citizen's freedom under the TNP Bill of Rights by discriminating against their free speech - or in this case to religion, this rule - while created in response to this controversy - would not bar any specific religion or way of thinking; it would go further to bar any non-NS related content. Doing so does not prevent creators from creating their own podcasts and publishing them on their own YouTube channels, and it does not prevent them from promoting that content independently. As such, I feel that, while strict, this is a fair policy.

This reasoning led me to post the following last night in response to the concerns that were raised:
Any show posted on TNP youtube platforms **must** be NS-related. Furthermore, the NBS youtube channel will be split up. All official NBS shows will remain on the NBS Channel, and any NS-related private media sources will be posted on a new, specifically private media channel. Only the official NBS channel will be actively promoted, but the private media channel will continue to be maintained. Not necessarily all media posted on the official NBS will represent government opinions, but they will be government run shows. Any citizen that seeks to publish non-NS related material is free to do so on their own youtube channel, but that sort of content will not be contained either within the official NBS or Private Media channels. For clarity: TNP University will be allowed to publish through private media, but only specifically NS-related content will be posted on the private media account.
This addresses the concerns of a need for a distinction between officially produced NBS content and the private media I would like to promote. It also prevents a slippery slope of IRL topics from becoming commonplace on the Private Media Youtube channel, allowing TNP's government to make clear judgements as to what content should and should not be posted.
 
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