Recall Novare Res from the Security Council

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mcmasterdonia

Just like a queef in the wind, so is life
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TNP Nation
McMasterdonia
I think it’s time we discuss recalling Romanoffia from the Security Council.

As per the Vice Delegate’s recent update here, Romanoffia has given out only 11% of total endorsements to the region. Most SCers have endorsed over 90% of the region. SillyString has endorsed over 80% and Bootsie has endorsed over 50%.

Furthermore Romanoffia logs in only a couple of times per month at most in order to keep citizenship. During my recent tenure on the SC, Roman rarely participated in any discussions of note.

Both the current and former Vice Delegate’s have put in considerable efforts to build up and maintain SC endos. As has the last two Delegate administrations through two endorsement events. It’s unfair that they quite likely spend more time maintaining this endorsement count than Roman has spent on tarting.

We should expect more of someone appointed to help defend the region. As such, although it is regrettable, I think Romanoffia should be recalled from office.
 
While yes Novare was once a hard contributor to our region, I am not pleased that they have barely endoed back. I currently support this and I call for @Romanoffia to address the issue at hand.
 
Roman has a ton of influence should we ever need it. Plus, if things go south, I am confident he would be there to defend TNP. Let's not lose sight of what the SC is really all about.

Not sure how you can seriously say that when he’s hardly been around in the last year - through multiple Vice Delegates and some serious security issues.

We all know what the SC is about. At his current activity and endorsement levels, Roman would not be able to step up to any of the SC’s responsibilities.
 
Most of you are fortunate to have never lived through truly serious security issues. In the past, Roman has given it his all to save the region. He is loyal to the core, true blue TNP. That is absolutely the most important qualification for the SC.
 
Most of you are fortunate to have never lived through truly serious security issues. In the past, Roman has given it his all to save the region. He is loyal to the core, true blue TNP. That is absolutely the most important qualification for the SC.

A straw man argument already!

Nobody is denying his loyalty to TNP. Roman is not facing recall because he is disloyal. He is facing a recall because he is not meeting what I see are basic requirements for holding his office. This includes his activity and dismal endorsement record. It is great and wonderful that he is loyal. I appreciate that.

He can continue to be loyal without being an inactive member of the Security Council.
 
Roman has a ton of influence should we ever need it. Plus, if things go south, I am confident he would be there to defend TNP. Let's not lose sight of what the SC is really all about.
In addition to what McM said above, I think it is important to point out that Roman's influence is almost entirely the product of the WADP. Roman hasn't seriously tarted in roughly 2 years (maybe even more than that). If he was to be taken off the SC roster, this influence will degrade at an exponential rate. While this is a grim analogy, think of the WADP as Roman's life support.

This recall is LONG overdue and ties back into the ideology that the SC is more than being a chunk of influence. Someone who logs in just enough to avoid abandoning office is not going to be effective at responding swiftly in the event of a security crisis. I think we can all agree Roman is loyal to TNP, but loyalty is only one of many components in determining fitness to serve.
 
All I am saying is I have seen what Roman can bring to the table during a coup or rogue delegacy. He can be pretty impressive.

The basic requirements for the SC are whatever is in the legal code right now. If the RA wishes to enact legislation to make the requirements more stringent, then that would be the prerogative of the RA. Were that the case, and an SC member were not complying, then that would be a different matter. As it is, I don't see legal grounds for malfeasance or misfeasance or abandonment of office or anything else for which nations are typically recalled.
 
It does not need to be a legal requirement for a recall to be commenced.

There is no legal requirement that any officer be active beyond citizenship. There is no legal requirement that SC members be trustworthy or loyal. Yet you evidently place significance upon that.

Legal requirements are a bare minimum. These minimums have not stopped us from recalling Justices, Delegates, and others for general inactivity. We can expect better than the bare minimum from our officials.

You insist he would be there in an emergency. This flies in the face of the simple facts of his inactivity and endorsement count. There is no evidence in recent times to support this suggestion. Can you present any information to the contrary?

As you very well know, the RA can remove any official for any reason. If Roman had abandoned his office we would not need to recall him. That is why that provision exists.

He maintains the absolute bare minimum of activity to prevent this from occurring.

The WADP and the Vice Delegate help to keep romanoffia in compliance with the SC’s own requirements. He could not meet even those bare minimum requirements on his own.
 
Roman has a ton of influence should we ever need it. Plus, if things go south, I am confident he would be there to defend TNP. Let's not lose sight of what the SC is really all about.
Roman, at some point, had nearly 331k of influence. I easily amassed 305k before I was hit by decay (which was further accentuated after I resigned the WA to join the NPA), though if I (or any other) were in their position I'd easily come close or even surpass that amount. All this to say the fact that Roman has a ton of influence that could be helpful in times of crisis isn't much of an argument, GBM. I'm not disregarding the usefulness of their accumulated SPDR (or their loyalty and commitment to the region), I'm just saying that any trustworthy, active member of TNP that join your ranks can easily get a high SPDR too. All it takes is a bit of effort and dedication, something you can easily do even without having to be active everyday. I know most of your respectable work takes place behind closed doors, so sometimes it might hard to say if you're really that active or not (from an outsider, non-SCer pov), but in this case is pretty obvious. And I'd rather have active SCers working behind the scenes.
 
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This is not an easy decision like Siwale is painting it to be. GBM and others are right that Roman is a true blue TNPer and despite his inactivity does have a lot of SPDR influence points amassed over a long career in NS and service to TNP. At the same time, McMasterdonia and Loh have good points as well- Roman seems to be doing the bare minimum and we should have a new generation of more active SCers.

Neither side can treat this lightly. I join the calls for @Romanoffia to speak on this issue and do not think we should progress any further on this whatsoever until he weighs in.
 
It should be noted that he does not have a track record of missing votes, and actually votes more often on votes than SillyString, though he is usually the last.

Security Councillors also must log into the forum every fortnight to not get hit with the vacancy clause, so he’s at least active enough there.

It’s interesting to see such a knee jerk reaction from the former Delegate and a former member of the Security Council.

Recalls are serious. It took us weeks to recall Deropia. Romanoffia needs that chance too.
 
It should be noted that he does not have a track record of missing votes, and actually votes more often on votes than SillyString, though he is usually the last.

Security Councillors also must log into the forum every fortnight to not get hit with the vacancy clause, so he’s at least active enough there.

It’s interesting to see such a knee jerk reaction from the former Delegate and a former member of the Security Council.

Recalls are serious. It took us weeks to recall Deropia. Romanoffia needs that chance too.

But Bootsie, he might be active enough to be able to reach this legal minimum, but it means very little. As you should know yourself, Security Councillors need to do a lot of work to maintain their endorsement and influence levels, something Romanoffia is not doing, by having given endorsements to just 11% of the WA population of the region. This is not enough. Yes Romanoffia has done a lot for TNP, there is no arguing this, but the SC is not just based on experience, there must be activity too. I think everyone involved in this debate so far understands the severity of what we are talking about here, I do not believe that this is just a knee jerk reaction by Mcmasterdonia. In previous debates in the Regional Assembly, during discussions over the admittance of the recent Scers such as Sil and Artemis (as well as others) the same question was repeated throughout, should there be a cap on the number of SCers. And throughout the range of members this question has been posed to, the same thing has been said, no, as long as members are active there should be no limit, and I agree with this. However, I feel that in Romanoffia's case we must draw a line, the Security council is a group of very experienced members of our region that have come together in order to protect us from rogue members that try to take the delegacy. The only way for the SC to be most efficient in serving this duty is for ALL members to be active. Romanoffia has been unable to maintain the level of activity that is required to adequately ensure he can offer us everything he has. It should be these members that cannot maintain to proper level of activity (not the legal level) that are removed from the SC to prevent it getting too bloated, not by installing a cap on members.

All I am saying is I have seen what Roman can bring to the table during a coup or rogue delegacy. He can be pretty impressive.

We are not questioning his competence in the face of a coup or a rogue delegacy. The main issue I have is that much of his current maintenance of endorsements and influence is as a result of the WADP. If this recall was to pass, Romanoffia can still bring a lot to the table if we were to face a coup or rogue delegate, but would have to be active to maintain his endorsement level, something based on his current endotarting level won't happen, for him to be able to help.

Unless Romanoffia is able to satisfy my worries in regards to his activity gameside, I have no choice but to support this recall.
 
Influence in feeders like TNP decays - any Influence gained six months ago disappears at that mark. Frankly, Roman has had low endorsement levels both received and given for a significant portion of that time, so I doubt he has as much in-game Influence as people seem to think - any active endotarter in TNP can easily reach Roman's influence levels.

This inactivity has gone on for quite some time now, so this isn't some knee-jerk reaction. Sil's tracking of the various numbers only shows how frankly severe the issue is. I was shocked when Roman had only endorsed 160 WA members in TNP out of nearly 1500. He's always had low levels but that low is a number worth official consideration by the Regional Assembly, so I appreciate McM bringing this serious proposal before the RA.

If we're lucky enough for a security issue to happen while he happens to be logged in to the forums, great! I have no doubt he would serve admirably. But we shouldn't have to rely on luck for something like that, and frankly Roman doesn't have the gameside statistics for him to help much if at all on that side of things.
 
I'm kinda saddened to see my tracking backfire on another security councillor, but the numbers are showing effects that I think are different than the law anticipated and something that maybe the RA should account for. To me, it's saying that the RA values security councillor endotarting as a definitive measure of activity and that the RA wants their security councillors to be active in the community, both forum and gameside, handing out endorsements and having a presence. But what it's definitely showing is the strength of the WADP program and its advertising, as Roman's received count has been consistent despite the endorsement given count dropping so low, so much that he almost has five times as many endorsements as he's given out.

If the RA values SCer activity and the endorsements given count is the measure of tracking that activity now, then perhaps the law needs to change to factor that in. Maybe the way to go about this is to require that security councillors to have given endorsements to... maybe 60% of the WAs in the region? If that's a requirement to be an SCer, then if they haven't complied with it we go through the mechanism that's already in place to remove a security councillor besides a recall, which is outlined in Section 5.3 of the Legal Code.

I'm not going to say yes or no to whether this recall should happen, because I feel kinda bad that 1. it was my tracking that brought the situation to light, and 2. the fact that even in the first report I did I noticed the low endorsements given, and I didn't reach out to Roman about it. My thought was as long as the endorsements received and influence level was in compliance, just let it go. I'm seeing that maybe I should have given a lot more thought to that. I would have still reported the endorsements given, but I should have acted a lot sooner to it.
 
It should be noted that he does not have a track record of missing votes, and actually votes more often on votes than SillyString, though he is usually the last.

Security Councillors also must log into the forum every fortnight to not get hit with the vacancy clause, so he’s at least active enough there.

It’s interesting to see such a knee jerk reaction from the former Delegate and a former member of the Security Council.

Recalls are serious. It took us weeks to recall Deropia. Romanoffia needs that chance too.

That is not true Bootsie. It is 50/50 at best. You know as well as I that the Vice Delegate’s usually remind the SCers to vote multiple times before they do. The discussions get even less of a response and unless it’s sufdenly changed, Roman certainly rarely if ever participated in those.

This is not a knee jerk reaction. I’ve not moved it to a vote. It’s simply a discussion which we are perfectly entitled to hold. Our former positions are not relevant.

Roman has been chronically inactive generally for at least a year. Many people have noticed it and commented on it - including security councillors. Deropia had no where near this chronic level of inactivity over such a long period.
I'm kinda saddened to see my tracking backfire on another security councillor, but the numbers are showing effects that I think are different than the law anticipated and something that maybe the RA should account for. To me, it's saying that the RA values security councillor endotarting as a definitive measure of activity and that the RA wants their security councillors to be active in the community, both forum and gameside, handing out endorsements and having a presence. But what it's definitely showing is the strength of the WADP program and its advertising, as Roman's received count has been consistent despite the endorsement given count dropping so low, so much that he almost has five times as many endorsements as he's given out.

Just like any other official Roman is accountable to the public. So don’t blame yourself. The endorsement reports are useful in tracking how the SC and the region is doing.

If the RA values SCer activity and the endorsements given count is the measure of tracking that activity now, then perhaps the law needs to change to factor that in. Maybe the way to go about this is to require that security councillors to have given endorsements to... maybe 60% of the WAs in the region? If that's a requirement to be an SCer, then if they haven't complied with it we go through the mechanism that's already in place to remove a security councillor besides a recall, which is outlined in Section 5.3 of the Legal Code.

There is no doubt that activity and endorsements are important and are required for this job. The problem is that even what you’ve outlined could be maintained through the WADP and bare minimum involvement of the actual SC member.

The SC has traditionally asked members as inactive as Romanoffia to resign. I’m not sure why it hasn’t happened in this case. Great Bights Mum must have not thought Malvad to be as loyal as Romanoffia.

I'm not going to say yes or no to whether this recall should happen, because I feel kinda bad that 1. it was my tracking that brought the situation to light, and 2. the fact that even in the first report I did I noticed the low endorsements given, and I didn't reach out to Roman about it. My thought was as long as the endorsements received and influence level was in compliance, just let it go. I'm seeing that maybe I should have given a lot more thought to that. I would have still reported the endorsements given, but I should have acted a lot sooner to it.

I think that’s an unfortunate way to do things. We’ve had some great Vice Delegate’s - you included, who’ve done so much to build endorsement counts of SC members. But at the end of the day, it is also about personal responsibility. So I don’t think you should be laying any blame at your own feet about this. It’s honestly not about that.
 
Thanks McM. To be honest, Roman's been a bit of an enigma, even before I joined the SC. But, I didn't give it that much thought until I saw Roman's endorsements given number, and I thought r3n's scripts glitched out. You are right, though. At the end of the day, personal responsibility is the ultimate factor. Gotta do the work.

Whether or not this recall moves forward, I have drafted a bill to codify an endorsements given requirement for Security Council membership. I am up for tweaking the numbers if you think 60% is still way too low. I haven't published it yet, but the OP is ready to go. I'm just curious whether there's interest in doing that.
 
I am grateful for Malvad's service to the region. His loyalty was never a question. I am dismayed by the assumption as to what I must have thought at the time.

Please explain your position regarding an endotarting requirement for SC members. Is there something else you believe it would be helpful to add?
 
I unreservedly apologise if I have caused any dismayment. It is an observation that calls into question the thinking at the time. Romanoffia is evidently above reproach. Malvad was not. Neither of them ran afoul of the minimal requirements. Yet we both supported him in standing down.

The endotarting requirements won’t assist in my view given what the WADP already does for inactive SCers. Also where does this end - do we need to say SC members need to vote or participate in discussions as well? I think the expectations around activity and endo tarting are perfectly reasonable without being codified. We can have our own expectations of officials without that needing to be codified. Nevertheless this is probably a discussion for the amendment thread itself.
 
It should be noted that he does not have a track record of missing votes, and actually votes more often on votes than SillyString, though he is usually the last.

Security Councillors also must log into the forum every fortnight to not get hit with the vacancy clause, so he’s at least active enough there.

It’s interesting to see such a knee jerk reaction from the former Delegate and a former member of the Security Council.

Recalls are serious. It took us weeks to recall Deropia. Romanoffia needs that chance too.
Interesting argument. I like it.

I do however would like for him to answer questions regarding this before making any true judgement.

And Dero didn't post during his recall, at all. He only logged on once during the recall. Dero by then probably would had vacated his office if we didn't recall. Roman logs on every once in awhile and does respond. However like I said before, I want to see how he reacts to this and how he'll answer questions.
 
Whether or not this recall moves forward, I have drafted a bill to codify an endorsements given requirement for Security Council membership. I am up for tweaking the numbers if you think 60% is still way too low. I haven't published it yet, but the OP is ready to go. I'm just curious whether there's interest in doing that.
I don't mean to threadjack, but this looks quite interesting, although I do believe 60% is too low. I'd suggest 75%. I'll probably add a bit more of input, should you publish it.
 
In addition to what McM said above, I think it is important to point out that Roman's influence is almost entirely the product of the WADP. Roman hasn't seriously tarted in roughly 2 years (maybe even more than that). If he was to be taken off the SC roster, this influence will degrade at an exponential rate. While this is a grim analogy, think of the WADP as Roman's life support.

I would like to point out this is a boldfaced (literally because you decided to bold it for what I can only assume is a scare tactic) lie. There is actual information on this. If you click the link below its only been 8 months since Roman's Endorsements have started to slip with some recovery here and there. To say that he has been degrading for 2 years and coasting off of nothing but that for that long is just flat out wrong. If you are going to make claims, please use some citation.


https://www.nationstates.net/nation=novare_res/detail=trend/censusid=66

(Also just wanted to edit this if you look at my graph and others in the SC during the time frame where Roman lost those endorsements everyone lost a lot https://www.nationstates.net/nation=frances_francis_the_first_of_france/detail=trend/censusid=66 - during roughly the same time he lost 170 endorsements I lost ~125 and we have similar recovery periods)

P.S. I am withholding my judgement until Roman responds to this matter or a significant amount of time passes in which he does not respond.
 
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I would like to point out this is a boldfaced (literally because you decided to bold it for what I can only assume is a scare tactic) lie. There is actual information on this. If you click the link below its only been 8 months since Roman's Endorsements have started to slip with some recovery here and there. To say that he has been degrading for 2 years and coasting off of nothing but that for that long is just flat out wrong. If you are going to make claims, please use some citation.


https://www.nationstates.net/nation=novare_res/detail=trend/censusid=66

(Also just wanted to edit this if you look at my graph and others in the SC during the time frame where Roman lost those endorsements everyone lost a lot https://www.nationstates.net/nation=frances_francis_the_first_of_france/detail=trend/censusid=66 - during roughly the same time he lost 170 endorsements I lost ~125 and we have similar recovery periods)

P.S. I am withholding my judgement until Roman responds to this matter or a significant amount of time passes in which he does not respond.
The information you linked above is Endorsements Received data. Due to the WADP and numerous endorsement campaigns run by the Vice Delegates over the years, this information cannot accurately access a Security Councillors contributions towards maintaining their overall endorsement count.

The issue in question here is Roman's endotarting activity, which can be observed through Endorsements Given data. Unfortunately, NS doesn't provide us with lovely charts for this category which makes it slightly harder to track. Luckily for us though, r3n's server logs all data pertaining to the WA and compiles it into this nice Archive.

I was making a rough estimate when I said Roman hadn't tarted for 2 years. After sorting through r3n's archives, it turns out that this estimate was quite generous. Roman has not actively exchanged endorsements since August 30th, 2016. This also wasn't even a complete run where he sought to max out his endorsements given (at that time, he had endorsed 930 out of 1448 nations).
 
I'm not altogether happy with the tone of the arguments people are making - they seem rather discourteous - but I can't fault the logic in their arguments. I'm leaning towards supporting Roman's recall.
Yeah, this does seem a little dirty to read at times.

It's a difficult problem, I'd like if we left this in consideration for enough time that Roman could reasonably respond. I get the arguments from both sides, defo is an issue, I'd just hope that we could sort it out with Roman without the need for a recall.
 
The information you linked above is Endorsements Received data. Due to the WADP and numerous endorsement campaigns run by the Vice Delegates over the years, this information cannot accurately access a Security Councillors contributions towards maintaining their overall endorsement count.

The issue in question here is Roman's endotarting activity, which can be observed through Endorsements Given data. Unfortunately, NS doesn't provide us with lovely charts for this category which makes it slightly harder to track. Luckily for us though, r3n's server logs all data pertaining to the WA and compiles it into this nice Archive.

I was making a rough estimate when I said Roman hadn't tarted for 2 years. After sorting through r3n's archives, it turns out that this estimate was quite generous. Roman has not actively exchanged endorsements since August 30th, 2016. This also wasn't even a complete run where he sought to max out his endorsements given (at that time, he had endorsed 930 out of 1448 nations).

See your changing the ball game now. I'm making the argument that his endorsement count which is the real important part has maintained high despite not endotarting which is the argument you made by saying the WADP is the only thing keeping him up but pointing out that for a significant part of those two years he maintained endorsement rates higher then many other SC members but has only slipped within the last 8 months and if the WADP was the only thing keeping him afloat for 2 years then it would show in the comparison to other SC member's endorsement counts and it just doesn't.

You are taking one factor pointing at two snapshots in time "Look at point A, Look at point B" and then saying that it proves that because he didn't do ONE type of thing that obviously proves that he did nothing within the whole time frame. MCM is at least using his experience with interacting with Roman as a basis of his reasoning your just saying because one number went down it shows proof that he has failed to do anything even unrelated to that number.
 
See your changing the ball game now. I'm making the argument that his endorsement count which is the real important part has maintained high despite not endotarting which is the argument you made by saying the WADP is the only thing keeping him up but pointing out that for a significant part of those two years he maintained endorsement rates higher then many other SC members but has only slipped within the last 8 months and if the WADP was the only thing keeping him afloat for 2 years then it would show in the comparison to other SC member's endorsement counts and it just doesn't.

You are taking one factor pointing at two snapshots in time "Look at point A, Look at point B" and then saying that it proves that because he didn't do ONE type of thing that obviously proves that he did nothing within the whole time frame. MCM is at least using his experience with interacting with Roman as a basis of his reasoning your just saying because one number went down it shows proof that he has failed to do anything even unrelated to that number.
My argument has been consistently focused around the fact that Roman has not been actively exchanging endorsements. Exchanging endorsements is one of the biggest components to tracking self-maintenance of endorsement counts and one of the only objective markers we have access to. Due to the lack of endorsements given on his end, the burden of maintaining Roman's endorsement count has fallen exclusively on the VD and WADP to keep it above the legal minimum. This is/has been done through dispatch-based alerts, TG campaigns, Keeper of the North Status, monthly awards, WFE highlights, etc. These efforts are not going to keep all SCers at the same exact endorsement level since the return on each endorsement effort is variable. I think we can all agree Roman's endorsement count is within an acceptable level, but it was not his doing that kept it there.
 
Due to the lack of endorsements given on his end, the burden of maintaining Roman's endorsement count has fallen exclusively on the VD and WADP to keep it above the legal minimum. This is/has been done through dispatch-based alerts, TG campaigns, Keeper of the North Status, monthly awards, WFE highlights, etc. These efforts are not going to keep all SCers at the same exact endorsement level since the return on each endorsement effort is variable. I think we can all agree Roman's endorsement count is within an acceptable level, but it was not his doing that kept it there.
My initial reaction to this was to say that if VD and WADP efforts were sufficient to keep Roman within SC requirements, why isn't that sufficient? Why should we care about him not tarting when his numbers are fine?

But... upon deeper reflection that doesn't really hold up to scrutiny. The VD and WADP are excellent tools, but SC members do bear some responsibility for maintaining their own counts. The boosting of the lowest endorsed SC members is not shared evenly among the whole Council, but instead disproportionately benefits some SCers who chronically underperform (and I include myself in that number, embarassingly). It only continues to work because the majority of SCers don't abdicate their responsibilities wholesale - if every member of the council suddenly stopped tarting, I doubt that VD and WADP efforts would be sufficient to sustain them all.

Roman hasn't tarted in two and a half years! I had no idea, and that's a really long time by NS standards. Roman hasn't tarted since Lord Ravenclaw was delegate - he didn't tart even once during the delegacies of Plembobria, Pallaith, Gladio, or Siwale. Heck, he last tarted before Siwale was founded. The last time Roman tarted, we still had the Sanity Clause in the Regional Security Law, we hadn't ever seriously celebrated any regional holiday (heck, we didn't even have Delegates' Day), and Election Commissioners were appointed by the Delegate before every election and had to adopt their own rules every time, instead of being part of a standing body with set procedures like we have today.

All of which is to say that it's been quite a while since Roman was actively engaged with the region or the forum, and that our region has changed quite a lot since then. One thing an SC member really, really needs to have in the event of an emergency is name recognition and the trust of the people in the region, and I'm not convinced that Roman does have that anymore.

I do also support giving him some time to respond to this thread (I would hope for at least a week, since some people find it hard to log in outside of certain days), but if a response is not forthcoming I am likely persuaded to support a recall.
 
As a member of the Security Council, and a former Vice Delegate, I'm going to put on my security hat for a moment. I don't believe a drumbeat for activity, activity, activity tells the whole story of what the SC can do, defines what their purpose is, or determines their value. And I do not believe that recent bad trends means we need to be ready to give the boot to someone who put a great deal of time and dedication toward the security of our region, and who did great things in the past. I believe no small amount of deference is owed to such people, and the bar for something like this should be very high. Being on the Security Council isn't like elected office, or a position in the cabinet. A lot of our work happens in the background, slowly over a great deal of time, and we don't have the kind of fast turnaround, single-term expectations those offices have.

I put a lot of work into figuring out how to improve the SC's endorsement gathering and engagement. Even before I was Vice Delegate, I saw an encouraging trend, fresh faces and new blood invigorating the SC after a long period of old members peeling off and the council shrinking and, I might even say, withering. By the end of my term as VD we had 2, soon to be 3, new members. I believe this is the most active the SC has been in a long time, and the fact that even then they could be so much more is not lost on me. The SC is not a body that changes quickly, or without a great deal of thought and care. So to an extent, I am willing to be patient and not give its members too hard a time, because the culture is changing and the number of consistent and present SC members is higher than it has been since I have been in TNP, at least from what I could gather. And when it comes to engagement, that is directly tied into culture, and the habits of the SC members. It's not a body that is as keyed into regional life writ-large, at least for the more veteran members. The newcomers, on the other hand, come from that experience, and that is driving the change in SC culture. We have to nudge the others along so they get accustomed to that, and we have been seeing improvement there. Endorsements aren't the only, or even the best, way to engage, but increasingly it is something that some us, including me, Siwale, and most recent candidates for VD in the last few cycles, have considered a priority.

But endotarting is elementary. It is the very basic thing all SC members can and should do, and it doesn't change. The culture may shift and the SC may be deliberate and gradual in changing its approach, but endotarting is still SC 101. We shouldn't be so obsessed with activity purity that we pick up our torches and pitchforks after a few bad weeks of endorsement reports. As SillyString pointed out above, of course, we're not talking about a few weeks. We're talking about years. This discussion highlights how fantastic WADP is, but it's supposed to be supplementary, not the source of endorsements. I ran a lot of endorsement alerts as VD, and everyone managed to pick up their slack at some point. Roman did not. I believe the bar is high for recalling a member of the SC, and I believe that it takes a lot for one to fairly say that activity alone, when that person still performs duties and is around in some capacity, is a sufficient cause for that member's removal. We may see in this situation, precisely the sort of scenario where activity has impacted performance, and it can be reasonably said to be below the standard we should expect. When you add to that the fact that Roman has zero engagement outside of the meager votes or endorsements he has taken part in, it's that much harder to meet the changing standard we have for the SC.

I don't know Roman, we've rarely interacted, I'm not actually sure if we've even interacted directly. I believe he deserves to be here, and I have no doubt he did great things and was a important help to our region in the past. There always seems to come a point when the old greats don't keep up. Maybe they are not willing to, maybe they aren't able to. Their reasons are their own, and probably more important than any of this. That's fine, life moves on and priorities must take center stage. A decision to bring his service to an end does not diminish any of the things he has done, it does not mean we do not believe he deserves to be here, it does not mean he has failed. It means that times have changed, our expectations have changed, and he is not, at this time, able to continue to serve in that environment. But considering who it is, I echo the opinion of many others in saying that he deserves to be heard, he deserves to have a chance to address our concerns, to explain where he is coming from. If this has been a long time coming, another week surely isn't too much to ask.
 
Would the author be open to allowing Roman till the 28th of February to make a statement before considering moving forward with this recall motion?
 
There's an exclusive Like button that you already used and you felt like posting that as well? Seriously, your signature is huge already, there's absolutely no reason to take up an entire screen just to duplicate your already-extant Like.

That's the entire purpose of including the "like" option in the RA subforum. Please take note of this.
 
I'm with Artemis. We should give Roman all the time he needs. He may be busy this week, considering his being inactive from a game, and plus, this is a hard decision for us all.
 
I'm with Artemis. We should give Roman all the time he needs. He may be busy this week, considering his being inactive from a game, and plus, this is a hard decision for us all.
Very much agreed,
There's an exclusive Like button that you already used and you felt like posting that as well? Seriously, your signature is huge already, there's absolutely no reason to take up an entire screen just to duplicate your already-extant Like.
Yeah maybe I shouldn't had posted "^" but I used it as a way to agree. I usually use the like button for either agreeing with something, replying to something, and/or just in general liking something.
But let's stay on topic, shall we?
 
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I'm with Artemis. We should give Roman all the time he needs. He may be busy this week, considering his being inactive from a game, and plus, this is a hard decision for us all.

Surely the amount of time is plenty of time for someone who, according to @Great Bights Mum, has a tremendous amount of influence and would be there when we needed him. Yet another opportunity to prove such claims as baseless and self-serving.

He has been given “all the time he needs” - that is to say *years*.
 
In addition to what McM said above, I think it is important to point out that Roman's influence is almost entirely the product of the WADP. Roman hasn't seriously tarted in roughly 2 years (maybe even more than that). If he was to be taken off the SC roster, this influence will degrade at an exponential rate. While this is a grim analogy, think of the WADP as Roman's life support.

This recall is LONG overdue and ties back into the ideology that the SC is more than being a chunk of influence. Someone who logs in just enough to avoid abandoning office is not going to be effective at responding swiftly in the event of a security crisis. I think we can all agree Roman is loyal to TNP, but loyalty is only one of many components in determining fitness to serve.

I agree with this.


All I am saying is I have seen what Roman can bring to the table during a coup or rogue delegacy. He can be pretty impressive.

I very much agree with this.

The basic requirements for the SC are whatever is in the legal code right now. If the RA wishes to enact legislation to make the requirements more stringent, then that would be the prerogative of the RA. Were that the case, and an SC member were not complying, then that would be a different matter. As it is, I don't see legal grounds for malfeasance or misfeasance or abandonment of office or anything else for which nations are typically recalled.

Unfortunately, I do disagree with this.

Would the author be open to allowing Roman till the 28th of February to make a statement before considering moving forward with this recall motion?

Roman was last present here at the forum on the 14th of this month. He maintains citizenship. This last quote was made on the 18th. He should be extended the courtesy of a counter response until the 20th of March.

He's more than earned that.
 
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