Vacancy Bill

Darcania

Darcania

official floof
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Darcania
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@zephyrkul
Vacancy Bill:
1. Section 4.2, clause 9 will be amended as follows:
Legal Code:
9. A "vacancy" in an office occurs when the holder of it resigns, is removed, or abandons it. An office is abandoned when its holder does not log onto the regional forums for two weeks, or when an election winner or appointee fails to post the Oath of Office. Pending an election, a vacancy may be temporarily filled as provided by the Constitution, this Legal Code, or a rule adopted by the appropriate body.
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Legal Code:
9. A "vacancy" in an office occurs when the holder of it resigns, is removed, or abandons it. An office is abandoned when its holder does not log onto the regional forums for two weeks without prior notice, or when an election winner or appointee fails to post the Oath of Office. Pending an election, a vacancy may be temporarily filled as provided by the Constitution, this Legal Code, or a rule adopted by the appropriate body.
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With the recent removal of Leaves of Absences, and with the more recent declaration of Yukkira's leaving for a month, it occurred to me that we still have a leave of absence of sorts given to government officials through the wording in clause 9. As I see it, two weeks without logging in to the forum is already long enough to leave even with prior notice, and so I propose we remove that wording. There is also the matter of how official that prior notice has to be. Is a private notice to the staff or to the appointer enough, or should it be public? Should the prior notice be located in a specific location on the forum? Is a public Discord notice enough? These are questions that we could answer, but it's best to either make it clear or remove it, and I think it better to remove it.

I've left an exemption for Yukkira to officially recognize his current leave, and to make extra certain this bill could not be interpreted as retroactive. EDIT: Exemption removed.

Vacancy Bill:
1. Section 4.2, clause 9 will be amended as follows:
Legal Code:
9. A "vacancy" in an office occurs when the holder of it resigns, is removed, or abandons it. An office is abandoned when its holder does not log onto the regional forums for two weeks, or when an election winner or appointee fails to post the Oath of Office. Pending an election, a vacancy may be temporarily filled as provided by the Constitution, this Legal Code, or a rule adopted by the appropriate body.
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2. Yukkira is granted exemption from the above clause for his current term as Minister of Culture until April 9th, 2018.
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I might ask Yukkira to step in and clarify the leave of absence, but I don't believe it was a full month off of the forums entirely. The way I read the notice, I think it was more of a break from government service, so I would question whether granting Yukkira an exception to the abandonment clause is necessary. I suppose it doesn't hurt just in case, though.
 
I don't have a problem with the implementation clause, since I'm fairly sure that even if we didn't have it, the Bill of Rights would protect Yukkira from removal (the part that forbids ex post facto laws). The just formalizes that intention, and hopefully keeps it out of court.
 
Crushing Our Enemies:
I don't have a problem with the implementation clause, since I'm fairly sure that even if we didn't have it, the Bill of Rights would protect Yukkira from removal (the part that forbids ex post facto laws). The just formalizes that intention, and hopefully keeps it out of court.
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That's the main point of it, yes. I doubt it will have any actual effect but it's better to make it explicit anyway rather than implicit through the Bill of Rights.
 
so, the law of unintended consequences comes into play here? A perfectly reasonable clause in an existing law is repealed on a capricious whim, and then less than 3 months following that an exception is now a priority, despite the fact that according to the transcript of debate, the exception isn't actually needed at all? We have a Deputy Minister of Culture who can handle the workload:
http://forum.thenorthpacific.org/po...121322&qhash=11c0ce647135fb3a476eaa025e20b64d

and as mentioned a few moments ago, the parameters of continuity of activity have been modified since the original section was adopted.

Either the Bill is out of order on it's merit, or is unnecessary, seeing as how it is introduced strictly as a benefit for a single member. There is no affect on Game Play whatsoever.
 
There is no affect(sic) on Game Play whatsoever.
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You at best misinterpreted, or at worse twisted, what I was saying in your proposal thread. This proposal is not a roleplaying proposal. It is a government maintenance proposal that alters a law.

Anyways, although the 2nd clause may not be needed, it is a clarification that Yukkira gave notice under the old law and the new law cannot apply to Yukkira because of the prohibition of ex post facto laws.
 
The rationale for this proposal is sound - since we no longer extend leaves of absences to citizens, it doesn't make sense for government officials to have them either.
 
Sil Dorsett:
There is no affect(sic) on Game Play whatsoever.
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You at best misinterpreted, or at worse twisted, what I was saying in your proposal thread. This proposal is not a roleplaying proposal. It is a government maintenance proposal that alters a law.

Anyways, although the 2nd clause may not be needed, it is a clarification that Yukkira gave notice under the old law and the new law cannot apply to Yukkira because of the prohibition of ex post facto laws.
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There is no affect(sic) on Game Play whatsoever.
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Good looking out. I make no excuse for a word used incorrectly. I hope your pedantic fetish applies to your own posts.

You at best misinterpreted, or at worse twisted, what I was saying in your proposal thread.
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Specific words have actual meanings. I did no such thing....and this point that you somehow attribute to me to some spite or malice from a completely different subject is completely divorced from Your Declaration in the submitted bill (that You introduced) to repeal the section of the Code which now requires a review and exemption.

Anyways, although the 2nd clause may not be needed,
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I object to the second clause on its merit; if it "may not" be needed, there is no legal purpose to be included in the draft. I move it be stricken.
 
Baker Park:
Good looking out. I make no excuse for a word used incorrectly. I hope your pedantic fetish applies to your own posts.
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Watch yourself. I will not have any thread in the Regional Assembly devolve into personal attacks. This thread, and in fact all threads here, is for debates on proposals, not snipes on your fellow citizens' characters.

Baker Park:
Specific words have actual meanings. I did no such thing....and this point that you somehow attribute to me to some spite or malice from a completely different subject is completely divorced from Your Declaration in the submitted bill (that You introduced) to repeal the section of the Code which now requires a review and exemption.
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Sil Dorsett has not attributed malice to you. Neither has he introduced this bill. I am the one who proposed this bill.

Baker Park:
I object to the second clause on its merit; if it "may not" be needed, there is no legal purpose to be included in the draft. I move it be stricken.
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No. One need only see my post and COE's post to see why it is still seen as necessary, even if it may end up having no actual effect.
 
I like this Baker Park guy, they remind me of a more amateurish, less refined version of Cormac back from 2013. Throw some Douria into it and bake for 30 minutes at GM 5 and you'll get something that makes somewhat more sense than the tripe I've seen thus far from them.

That said, since I appear to have stumbled upon this - I'd agree with COE's response up top. That said, one post per month is not an arduous requirement: I've been meeting it despite doing absolutely sod all else since January. In fact, were Yukkira not to make another post until April 10th, he'd be fine under our current laws even without this bill passing in terms of citizenship providing he remembers to login where appropriate at least once every 14 days.

Maybe there will be events in the future where people absolutely cannot access the needed facilities to do their job, and in that case, these people should resign. That sounds cruel, but why occupy a role if you cannot actually do the job at that time?
 
Darcania:
Baker Park:
Good looking out. I make no excuse for a word used incorrectly. I hope your pedantic fetish applies to your own posts.
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Watch yourself. I will not have any thread in the Regional Assembly devolve into personal attacks. This thread, and in fact all threads here, is for debates on proposals, not snipes on your fellow citizens' characters.

Baker Park:
Specific words have actual meanings. I did no such thing....and this point that you somehow attribute to me to some spite or malice from a completely different subject is completely divorced from Your Declaration in the submitted bill (that You introduced) to repeal the section of the Code which now requires a review and exemption.
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Sil Dorsett has not attributed malice to you. Neither has he introduced this bill. I am the one who proposed this bill.

Baker Park:
I object to the second clause on its merit; if it "may not" be needed, there is no legal purpose to be included in the draft. I move it be stricken.
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No. One need only see my post and COE's post to see why it is still seen as necessary, even if it may end up having no actual effect.
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And I respectfully would like to highlight this quote again--it certainly appears that something is being accused, which is just not true.

You at best misinterpreted, or at worse twisted, what I was saying in your proposal thread
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And he did introduce the bill which was previously passed which this particular initiative seeks to redress. Perhaps that confusion is my fault for the way it was worded.

makes somewhat more sense than the tripe I've seen thus far from them.
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And I certainly think this remark is uncalled for. I refer to my answer in the discussion of the Oath bill--more of "you better know your place around here, boy".
 
Are you done hijacking each proposal of actual merit with repeated argumentation?
 
The bill is now in formal debate, which will last for five days, after which a vote will be scheduled.
 
Siwale:
So...are we just going to pretend this bill never happened?
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:duh:
Well I looked at the voting floor and we never voted on this, so I want to motion this for a new vote..
4. If a number of citizens equal to or exceeding one third of the number of votes required to achieve quorum for any legislative vote, including the citizen that introduced the proposal to the Regional Assembly, motion that a vote should be held on a proposal before the Regional Assembly, then the Speaker must schedule a vote on that proposal to begin as soon as permitted by law.
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Dinoium:
Siwale:
So...are we just going to pretend this bill never happened?
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:duh:
Well I looked at the voting floor and we never voted on this, so I want to motion this for a new vote..
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Only the proposer (me) may motion for a vote, as this is a legislative amendment. As well, I had motioned above already.

I had been attempting to use this bill to teach my deputy abc the basics of handling the RA side of Speaker duties but he was never around often enough in TNP for me to teach him. Whoever the next Speaker is can take it from here.
 
Darcania:
Dinoium:
Siwale:
So...are we just going to pretend this bill never happened?
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:duh:
Well I looked at the voting floor and we never voted on this, so I want to motion this for a new vote..
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Only the proposer (me) may motion for a vote, as this is a legislative amendment. As well, I had motioned above already.

I had been attempting to use this bill to teach my deputy abc the basics of handling the RA side of Speaker duties but he was never around often enough in TNP for me to teach him. Whoever the next Speaker is can take it from here.
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Well alright
Note: I knew the person who proposed has to motion but the law stats:
4. If a number of citizens equal to or exceeding one third of the number of votes required to achieve quorum for any legislative vote, including the citizen that introduced the proposal to the Regional Assembly, motion that a vote should be held on a proposal before the Regional Assembly, then the Speaker must schedule a vote on that proposal to begin as soon as permitted by law.
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If you don't want to continue it for now, i would respect your decision but I would still like to motion for a vote..
 
Dinoium:
Note: I knew the person who proposed has to motion but the law stats:
4. If a number of citizens equal to or exceeding one third of the number of votes required to achieve quorum for any legislative vote, including the citizen that introduced the proposal to the Regional Assembly, motion that a vote should be held on a proposal before the Regional Assembly, then the Speaker must schedule a vote on that proposal to begin as soon as permitted by law.
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If you don't want to continue it for now, i would respect your decision but I would still like to motion for a vote..
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To clarify, are you motioning for an immediate vote?
 
Would have been nice if the only person running for Speaker scheduling a vote but then never actually opening the vote was something that came up in the election...oh well.
 
Darcania:
Dinoium:
Note: I knew the person who proposed has to motion but the law stats:
4. If a number of citizens equal to or exceeding one third of the number of votes required to achieve quorum for any legislative vote, including the citizen that introduced the proposal to the Regional Assembly, motion that a vote should be held on a proposal before the Regional Assembly, then the Speaker must schedule a vote on that proposal to begin as soon as permitted by law.
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If you don't want to continue it for now, i would respect your decision but I would still like to motion for a vote..
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To clarify, are you motioning for an immediate vote?
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Well i understand this was like a test to see if ABC was up for the task but i do think this would be a good idea but i'll give you the time to the move for a vote since we need 1/3 yeas and the proposer's apporval
 
Dinoium:
Darcania:
To clarify, are you motioning for an immediate vote?
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Well i understand this was like a test to see if ABC was up for the task but i do think this would be a good idea but i'll give you the time to the move for a vote since we need 1/3 yeas and the proposer's apporval
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I asked a yes or no question for clarity, could you please answer it so I or the next Speaker know what your motion is?
 
Darcania:
Dinoium:
Darcania:
To clarify, are you motioning for an immediate vote?
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Well i understand this was like a test to see if ABC was up for the task but i do think this would be a good idea but i'll give you the time to the move for a vote since we need 1/3 yeas and the proposer's apporval
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I asked a yes or no question for clarity, could you please answer it so I or the next Speaker know what your motion is?
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Yes, i want to motion for a vote but like you stated, i need the author of the bill's approval which is you
 
Mr. Speaker, as my motion to vote above has not expired please feel free to re-schedule the vote whenever convenient. As you are no doubt getting your office in order please feel free to take your time scheduling it, but I request that it is scheduled no later than a week from now.
 
SillyString:
That's quite the delay. Can I ask why it was put off for so long?
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Well when it was originally proposed, Darcania was the sitting Speaker, so he had to wait until a new speaker came along..
 
Pallaith:
SillyString:
That's quite the delay. Can I ask why it was put off for so long?
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Abc was supposed to start the vote but he forgot.
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The truth is that I hadn't forgotten - I constantly had it in the back of my mind.

I happened to be very busy around then and had little time to do NS Stuff, so Darc was never online when I was and he didn't have a chance to train me until the very end. Luckily he's provided me with a number of resources and those have helped me understand how holding RA Votes works.

Code: 
der Nordpazifik Ente (abc) - 04/19/2018
Yeah
I'm here
Since I'm normally offline when you're online, if you could post the instructions on how to start a vote I could follow them
I honestly do apologize, I've mostly been consumed with RL recently

der Nordpazifik Ente (abc) - 04/24/2018
@Darcania Could you...

der Nordpazifik Ente (abc) - 04/25/2018
Darcania...? :cry:
 
Why are Discord logs posted? Are those at all relevant to the discussion? Did you have to pick the one set of quotes to make me look as bad as possible when no context is provided?
 
Yeah, I was referring to the five day delay. I'm curious why the speaker chose that long, rather than the two days required by law.
 
Darcania:
Why are Discord logs posted? Are those at all relevant to the discussion? Did you have to pick the one set of quotes to make me look as bad as possible when no context is provided?
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Agreed, just because you didn't get the training, doesn't mean you go attacking and blaming Darc, you were offline when he was online, so it's your fault ABC..
Also the bill was supposed to be voted on yesterday..
 
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