[Complete]Condemn The Black Hawks (again)

Sil Dorsett

Sil Dorsett

The Belt Collector
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TNP Nation
sil_dorsett
Discord
sildorsett
Category: Condemnation
Nominee: The Black Hawks
Proposed by: The Stalker
Onsite Topic

Security Council,

Appreciating that The Black Hawks have previously been condemned by resolution SC#52, but believing the condemnation failed to fully warn NationStates of the nature and severity of The Black Hawks' invasions, thus finds a need for a second condemnation detailing that and the many crimes perpetrated since the passage of SC#52;

Trumpeting the need to highlight their most destructive actions and detail the techniques used in the hopes that nations can be better prepared to detect and stop future harm;

Acknowledging much to the shock and dismay of this Security Council, that The Black Hawks have a history spanning more than a decade, are ranked among the oldest raider regions in the world, and are among the very few raider regions that have remained in near-continuous operation for such a long period of time;

Noting the following reprehensible offenses against interregional peace and goodwill The Black Hawks have committed over the course of their long history:

• Invasions and long-term occupations that are disruptive and frequently destructive in intent and execution, and which are often accomplished by gaining the trust of native nations and evading the detection of defender nations through deception and stealth, including the following invasions and many others: Asia, Atheist Empire, ITALIA, Yorkshire, Capitalist Paradise, Hippiedom, Hell, Furry Federation, Canada, Equestria, Portugal, Middle Earth, St Abbaddon, and Illuminati;
• Toppling many of the longest sitting WA Delegate records including: Texas 10+ years, Antarctica 10+ years, United States 9+ years, Forest 8+ years, Lemuria 7+ years;
• The Black Hawks have provoked liberation resolutions to end border closures in Hippiedom SC#99 & South Pacific SC#108;
• Support for the 2013 coup d'etat perpetrated against The South Pacific by the rogue Delegate Milograd, including in-depth assistance by Mallorea and Riva in the purging of thousands of native nations from the region;
• Successful infiltration of Osiris from 2011-2013 by Lemon Love, a nation administered by a puppet regime under the control of Jakker, for the purpose of committing acts of espionage and subversion against Osiris;
• Commemoration of the tenth anniversary of The Black Hawks in 2015 via the creation of RaiderCon - an annual event to unite the raider world in celebration of wanton invasion acts against innocent regions and their native nations, which inducts infamous raider nations into a so-called Raider Hall of Fame to celebrate their acts of aggression and subversion against other regions' self-determination;
• Operation Blackout in 2016 where 121 regions were invaded in a single merciless night;
• Harboring, at one time or another, more nations condemned by this Security Council than any other region in the world, including the nations, or nations controlled by puppet regimes, of Milograd SC#77 & #97, Jakker SC#112, Mallorea and Riva SC#121, Gest SC#122, and General Halcones SC#165;

Asserting that the resilient nature of The Black Hawks and their repeated, flagrant defiance of the Security Council's mission to promote interregional peace and goodwill - making nations associated with The Black Hawks and their acts of invasion the subject of more Security Council resolutions than any other raider region - require a firm, decisive, and comprehensive stamp of disapproval from this esteemed body;

Hereby Condemns The Black Hawks.
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Voting Instructions:
  • Vote For if you want the Delegate to vote For the resolution.
  • Vote Against if you want the Delegate to vote Against the resolution.
  • Vote Abstain if you want the Delegate to abstain from voting on this resolution.
  • Vote Present if you are personally abstaining from this vote.

Detailed opinions with your vote are appreciated and encouraged!

[wavote=the_north_pacific,sc]2017_02_25_condemn_the_black_hawks[/wavote]
[wavote=world,sc]2017_02_25_condemn_the_black_hawks[/wavote]
 
TBH has been condemned already. That bugs my pedantic side. I vote against.

Also since there are no votes in this thread, I'm voting against in-game.
 
For. The Black Hawks have been the class of raiderdom for years, the events listed in this condemnation would be enough for any other region. The fact that they've been condemned before is irrelevant, it wasn't for these actions.
 
I'm against as well. (Note: Not an eligible voter - Plemby don't count this)

Most condemnations of invader groups have been in the mould of Condemn Macedon or Condemn Nazi Europe: Where the interregional community actually stands opposed to the actions of the region being condemned.

The WA occasionally sees proposals for so-called "In-character" condemnations. Those proposals, while seemingly casting invasions in a negative light, are actually congratulatory in nature and (whether quietly or overtly) supported by their target.

In my opinion, the invading activities of TBH are not such that to place them in the first category. From reading the proposal, it seems to me like it's intended to be of the second category.

I do not believe that TBH is an appropriate target (if there even is one) for the second type of condemnation. For starters, there is already a condemnation of TBH on the books. Second, some of TBH's recent conduct (such as overthrowing the elected delegate of Lazarus) means that they do not deserve to be honoured by the WA. Third, I do not know if TBH have had a sufficient impact to deserve one condemnation, let alone a second one.
 
Cerian Quilor:
Absolutely for. TBH's many activities deserve further condemnation.
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I agree, they have done so many awful things and thus deserve further condemnation.

I vote FOR.
 
I preface this statement with the note that am no longer an eligible voter, due to no longer having a WA Nation but I would support this condemnation. There are few regions or players in this game as heinous and despicable as the cruel and unforgiving Black Hawks.

They play the bad guys exceptionally well, and personally, I might take some tips from their rule books when I reinvent myself as an evil overlord.

I advise the Delegate to vote FOR this condemnation.

//edit, my WA is back on Lord Ravenclaw.
 
With a tied regional vote 3-3 at present, as well as someone suggesting a vote each way, is there any chance that you could withdraw your vote until TNP has decided firmly on a direction to take? If you possibly could, that would be much appreciated. Thank you.

I'd be happy to try and answer any questions you don't want to take to GP :)
 
The vote is actually 3 Against (Plembobria, Tomb, and Siwale) to 1 For (abc). In order for your vote to count, you need to have a WA nation in TNP.
 
Ever-Wandering Souls:
Tomb:
The vote is actually 3 Against (Plembobria, Tomb, and Siwale) to 1 For (abc). In order for your vote to count, you need to have a WA nation in TNP.
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Apologies. Mall and cerian didn't note their votes weren't valid :P
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Actually, Mall's vote does count -- my bad. So that's 3-2, then.
 
My nation in TNP is now in the WA, and I vote FOR. I believe that makes the count 4 for and 3 against.

EDIT: Apparently my vote doesn't count :(
 
I will vote FOR as well. TBH has racked up a pretty impressive record, while avoiding a lot of the poor behavior that plagues some raider groups.

Stay classy, stay evil. ;)
 
Crushing Our Enemies:
My nation in TNP is now in the WA, and I vote FOR. I believe that makes the count 4 for and 3 against.
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I do not believe your vote counts, as your WA would have had to be here for the entirety of the vote (at least according to the pinned WA Voting Policy):

"3) Eligible to submit votes in a forum thread are all persons that: have a World Assembly nation either residing in The North Pacific, or deployed in an official mission of the North Pacific Army; and satisfy this condition for the entire time the forum thread is open. Votes may only be submitted through posts in the forum thread. All votes should include their WA Nation. "

Cormac:
For what it's worth, I will be proposing a repeal of the first condemnation if this passes, if that affects anyone's vote.
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If you indeed plan to do this, and I'll take your word that you do, then I am fine voting For this.
 
Crushing Our Enemies:
My nation in TNP is now in the WA, and I vote FOR. I believe that makes the count 4 for and 3 against.
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Your nation must be in the WA for the entirety of the vote for it to count.
 
For

Yes, TBH might consider a condemnation a badge of honor, but isn't that the case for everyone we condemn? Person A know they are gonna get condemned if they do action b, and if they don't want to get condemned, they wouldn't do action b, which would get them condemned. Since Person A did action B anyway, they at least don't care about being condemned anyway, so there would be no point.

Beside that, COE is right, these are two different actions being condemned. While I would rather putting the two condemnations together, that won't happen.
 
I am against. And my vote counts.
Good parenting of toddlers rule #1. Do not pander to attention-seeking behaviour. It encourages them.
 
r3naissanc3r:
Cormac:
For what it's worth, I will be proposing a repeal of the first condemnation if this passes, if that affects anyone's vote.
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If you indeed plan to do this, and I'll take your word that you do, then I am fine voting For this.
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Mystery Player:
Cormac:
For what it's worth, I will be proposing a repeal of the first condemnation if this passes, if that affects anyone's vote.
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If this is actually gonna happen, I see no reason not to vote FOR this. An updated condemnation wouldn't hurt. Only problem I see is that I am not sure that this would be supported.
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After talking to one of the Hawks and realizing how important SC#52 (the first condemnation) really is to them, I will not be trying to repeal it. I apologize for promising something that may have affected votes, but hopefully correcting myself early will mitigate that.

I do believe, as I've already stated elsewhere, that The Black Hawks have done enough to warrant two condemnations. We cannot possibly expect as this game is rapidly approaching its third decade that long-lasting regions, organizations, or nations that continue to make an impact will only be commended or condemned once.
 
Thanks to those saying my vote doesn't count, I love it when people try to disenfranchise eligible voters for petty political reasons. Besides "waaaah raiders" there are no arguments against the actual content.
 
Mall:
Thanks to those saying my vote doesn't count, I love it when people try to disenfranchise eligible voters for petty political reasons. Besides "waaaah raiders" there are no arguments against the actual content.
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Anyone whose WA isn't in the region (for the entire duration of the vote) doesn't have their vote count. Whether they're Fenda Scum Guy or Biased Raider Mod Mall.

Here's my argument against it: TBH just embarked on an aggressive deployment against Lazarus, overthrowing its elected Delegate. We shouldn't reward that with a badge of honour.

I am sure you disagree. :P
 
As of (time=1488087694):

7-6 For

TNP Nation [c] Vote
[c]Plembobria:[c]Against
[c]Dem. Rep. of Tomb:[c]Against
[c]Mallorea and Riva:[c]For
[c]Guy III:[c]Invalid (Guy III not WA)
[c]Kyrkberg (aka Cerian Quilor):[c]Invalid (Kyrkberg not WA)
[c]ABC:[c]For
[c]Siwale:[c]Against
[c]Lord Ravenclaw:[c]Invalid (Lord Ravenclaw not WA)
[c]Gladio II:[c]For (NPA)
[c]General COE:[c]Invalid (General COE not in WA at start of vote)
[c]SillyString:[c]For
[c]HMS Unicorn:[c]For
[c]Eyes that do not Lie:[c]For
[c]Lands of Anarchy:[c]Against
[c]N. Flemingovia:[c]Against
[c]Barbarossistan:[c]For
[c]Great Bights Mum:[c]Against
 
Guy:
Mall:
Thanks to those saying my vote doesn't count, I love it when people try to disenfranchise eligible voters for petty political reasons. Besides "waaaah raiders" there are no arguments against the actual content.
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Anyone whose WA isn't in the region (for the entire duration of the vote) doesn't have their vote count. Whether they're Fenda Scum Guy or Biased Raider Mod Mall.

Here's my argument against it: TBH just embarked on an aggressive deployment against Lazarus, overthrowing its elected Delegate. We shouldn't reward that with a badge of honour.

I am sure you disagree. :P
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:agree:
 
Alright, well... I'm taking the technical standpoint of that it's unnecessary to condemn a nation or region that has already been condemned. I don't think SC resolutions should be used to document additional acts of savagery. If somehow TBH were to redeem themselves, that would require two repeal recommendations, which would clog up the SC until it is done. Nations keeping track of this kind of stuff should do so privately, and vote appropriately.

My offical vote is: Against.
So I actually never recorded my own vote on the table, but after a productive and enlightening discussion with Mall on Discord, I'm just going to discard it and mark myself as Present.
 
I support voting against, condemning region is only a badge of honor, and they have already been condemned before. Are the SC going to double the badge?
 
The first condemn resolution was for manipulating the security council, threatening to raid regions whose delegates voted against their malicious liberation proposal. Anyone reading the first condemnation would think that for the most part, TBH is only guilty of a "cooling of democracy" and would be unaware of TBH's wide swath of destruction across nationstates.

I understand the impulse not to duplicate a previous condemnation, but this is not a duplicate. TBH has, in fact, undertaken two separate courses of action that both deserve condemnation separately. I urge anyone who has voted against because of SC#52 to reconsider this proposal on its merits.

Edit: Also, r3n's vote is missing from the official tally.
 
When I came here there were 2 primary organizations- TBH and TBR. TBR became DEN and then DEN died and was replaced by The Invaders. TBH just kept existing and has always been raiding and raiding and raiding. Condemnations for these groups ARE a badge of honor as many say. And I think TBH deserves another one. Plus it'd be cool to see a region with 2 black badges.

For!
 
I vote for. Uncivilised acts of raiding and attempts to incite trouble should be stopped.
 
KohGeek:
I vote for. Uncivilised acts of raiding and attempts to incite trouble should be stopped.
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Only problem with this logic is that TBH wants this badge.

Crushing Our Enemies:
Edit: Also, r3n's vote is missing from the official tally.
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This is a matter of interpretation for the Delegate/Minister, but r3n's vote seems to me to be conditional upon the original condemnation being subsequently repealed, something that Cormac said in this thread that he won't do. r3n can of course clarify if I misinterpreted him.
 
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