Urban Fantasy Proposal

Grimalkin

Grimalkin

TNPer
So I wrote up this proposal for a general universe setting based on some discussions that were done. This is pretty basic, small bit of world building and some mechanics that I think we need to all have in common in order to create some uniformity of the universe.

Proposal:
The Universe

The supernatural is no longer just a legend. Magic of many forms exists. Creatures from mythology and man’s darkest nightmares prowl the face of The North Pacific.

The spirit realm, called the Nevernever to its inhabitants, was born of the thoughts and imaginations and sheer will from the collective mind of humanity. Many inhuman creatures, both malevolent and benevolent, whose motivations and wills are nigh unsearchable to the human mind.

Whether you are an underground or secret supernatural society existing in the confines of a current nation, or a supernatural nation unto itself, this is the Universe in which you live.

Mechanics

Whether one gains power from nature or from within themselves, magic has its origin in Life. Ultimately, magic takes its toll on the user and cannot be used indiscriminately. Magic will drain and tire. Push beyond its limits, and you take your life in our hands.

Magic can be innate to the user, requiring focus and training to use effectively, or it can be studied extensively. The former might tend to be better users of evocation spells, flashy, quick magic, while the latter may have difficulty with evocation, but superior at thaumaturgy and runes.

To use a symbol of power, one must Believe in what it represents. An atheist will not be able to use a cross in order to stop an advancing vampire, just as a Christian could not use a Star of David.
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How would non-magic using fantasy species fit into this?
 
My remaining question is whether we want magic to be something given or something taken - that is, can only select people use magic and that's decided at birth, or does the potential exist within anybody and they must have the will to make it happen?

I guess it could also vary based on the specific beliefs of a nation - for SillyString, I'm envisioning it as pervading at a low level throughout the population and most of the time being useful for minor but significant climate effects that take small pushes from everyone (ensuring warm, sunny days, avoiding the worst of hurricanes by turning them aside or weakening them, etc). I'm not sure how it would deal with things like vampires, though. :P
 
Magic in my nation would be rather wild, whipping up the massive storms to far larger than they would normally be and interfering with some technology. Using magic would be using tools and objects to channel it, but because it's a primal energy, and native to spirits, magic is rather hard to use.
 
SillyString:
My remaining question is whether we want magic to be something given or something taken - that is, can only select people use magic and that's decided at birth, or does the potential exist within anybody and they must have the will to make it happen?

I guess it could also vary based on the specific beliefs of a nation - for SillyString, I'm envisioning it as pervading at a low level throughout the population and most of the time being useful for minor but significant climate effects that take small pushes from everyone (ensuring warm, sunny days, avoiding the worst of hurricanes by turning them aside or weakening them, etc). I'm not sure how it would deal with things like vampires, though. :P
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I absolutely love this idea although I figure magic would vary nation to nation (my own magic system is powered by runes but the power of each rune is effected by the will of the user and the permanence of the rune) and we'd need ways to balance differing systems.
 
Your post isn't helpful. We're talking about a separate fantasy RP to the main map.
 
Arux:
Oh. Why is this a proposal then? (And still-Fantasy RPs wont work)
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Because we're discussing the particulars of it.
 
And what would be the stance on supernatural beings such as Angels, demons, vampires, and werewolves?

I know that some of my characters are larger than life, so it would fit that they aren't human, even if they take a human form for the most part.

I'm been pondering the status of Alicia, given her abnormally high intelligence, to be a Virtue or seer.
 
Nierr:
SillyString:
My remaining question is whether we want magic to be something given or something taken - that is, can only select people use magic and that's decided at birth, or does the potential exist within anybody and they must have the will to make it happen?

I guess it could also vary based on the specific beliefs of a nation - for SillyString, I'm envisioning it as pervading at a low level throughout the population and most of the time being useful for minor but significant climate effects that take small pushes from everyone (ensuring warm, sunny days, avoiding the worst of hurricanes by turning them aside or weakening them, etc). I'm not sure how it would deal with things like vampires, though. :P
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I absolutely love this idea although I figure magic would vary nation to nation (my own magic system is powered by runes but the power of each rune is effected by the will of the user and the permanence of the rune) and we'd need ways to balance differing systems.
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Thanks! I worry that it seems a little underpowered in comparison to powerful magicians doing great feats, even though showy stuff wouldn't fit in with my ideas for SS' traditional religion.

I agree that we need to find a way to balance systems so that they play nicely together - perhaps place limits on the interaction of speed, numbers, and power. So something like... X number of people can use up to Y amount of power with Z reaction time - more people can do more together, moving slower can gather more power, and using less power can be done more quickly.

It might also make sense to incorporate the landscape of belief into someone's ability to use their powers, where someone who summons demons would have a much harder time doing so in places where the people don't believe in their existence, and someone who uses runes for power will find their runes significantly weakened in nations who believe that magic flows through the blessing of gods, etc.
 
Based on my experience in previous roleplays, I do think there should be limits on certain kinds of supernatural beings (gods in particular come to mind) so that we can avoid powergaming. Aside from that, I'm really looking forward to this.
 
SillyString:
Nierr:
SillyString:
My remaining question is whether we want magic to be something given or something taken - that is, can only select people use magic and that's decided at birth, or does the potential exist within anybody and they must have the will to make it happen?

I guess it could also vary based on the specific beliefs of a nation - for SillyString, I'm envisioning it as pervading at a low level throughout the population and most of the time being useful for minor but significant climate effects that take small pushes from everyone (ensuring warm, sunny days, avoiding the worst of hurricanes by turning them aside or weakening them, etc). I'm not sure how it would deal with things like vampires, though. :P
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I absolutely love this idea although I figure magic would vary nation to nation (my own magic system is powered by runes but the power of each rune is effected by the will of the user and the permanence of the rune) and we'd need ways to balance differing systems.
Click to expand...
Thanks! I worry that it seems a little underpowered in comparison to powerful magicians doing great feats, even though showy stuff wouldn't fit in with my ideas for SS' traditional religion.

I agree that we need to find a way to balance systems so that they play nicely together - perhaps place limits on the interaction of speed, numbers, and power. So something like... X number of people can use up to Y amount of power with Z reaction time - more people can do more together, moving slower can gather more power, and using less power can be done more quickly.

It might also make sense to incorporate the landscape of belief into someone's ability to use their powers, where someone who summons demons would have a much harder time doing so in places where the people don't believe in their existence, and someone who uses runes for power will find their runes significantly weakened in nations who believe that magic flows through the blessing of gods, etc.
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So essentially my magic users would be screwed in other nations, and other nation's magic users would be equally screwed.
 
Not screwed but weakened, to varying degrees even.

A magic user from my nation uses runes, written or printed or inscribed upon something to cast and also for passive stuff, would perhaps not suffer as much weakening in a nation where the magic users use hand gestures to draw runes in the air, compared to someone from SS's nation, who would be stronger in environments where communal magic is used.
 
So the idea of my nation's magic is that it's very old and very wild. Controlling it is difficult and the best most magic users can manage is channeling it through themselves and trying to direct it in a benevolent manner, which doesn't always happen. Luckily, its very hard to damage the natural environment with Yeraenn magic, since that would be like trying to cut off a sword's handle with its own blade. Spirits, however, are formed by the magic and control it far easier.
 
Vazos:
Based on my experience in previous roleplays, I do think there should be limits on certain kinds of supernatural beings (gods in particular come to mind) so that we can avoid powergaming. Aside from that, I'm really looking forward to this.
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You could have really weak gods, like the minor Shinto gods.

We are using the normal RP map, yes?
 
I think that for this to work, what we have to agree on is a set of basic mechanics: ultimately what is the source of magic, what does magic cost, things like this, regardless of what "form" the magic takes to each particular nation. We won't strike a balance unless we have that ironed out.

So here's my proposal.

Magic is born of Life, the life of all creation, from plants, animals, and sentients. With that the case, all people can perform some type of magic, but using it requires a force of will that only those born attuned to magic are capable of holding. That is to say that all people could probably perform very basic things, like closing a circle or participating in ritual, but only those whose wills are attuned to magic can use the more advanced forms, and of course, of those, I imagine power level distribution to be like a bell curve: most people average, some extremely powerful, some..not so powerful. Of a normal human society, only a small percentage would be born that would have the willpower to channel and use magic; however, this percentage can be raised based on how central their particular form of magic is to a society. For instance, a society like what SillyString is proposing, would be more naturally attuned to magic and produce a much high percentage of people attuned to it (which would inevitably lead to, I'm sure, a chicken or egg type philosophy to rise, which would be a neat discussion).

Belief can be a powerful force, but to invoke that belief, you must actually believe in it. I used the example before of an atheist or a Jew trying to use a cross to stop a vampire, it won't work.

As for gods, various gods exist and have existed and no longer exist. Gods generally receive power based on the belief in them. If all worship of them stops and they are completely forgotten, then they cease to exist. For the sake of a starting point that we can discuss on, I move that playing gods should be restricted to weak or low gods, for the reasons Vazos listed, unless there is a general agreement of the direction in which the storyline would be moving while using said god.

Essentially the basic premise should be that everything has weaknesses. For example, I plan on playing the nation of the Winter Sidhe (or Winter Court of Faeries or Unseelie Court/Faeries, whatever your preferred nomenclature is), which means that Queen Mab, a powerful character in her own right, will be making lots of appearances. But her weaknesses, and weaknesses shared by all faeries, would be that they cannot use their magic on mortals unless they are in the Sidhe's debt (and can only be used by that specific Sidhe), iron (anything with iron in it at some level) is considered bane to faeries (meaning it will kill lesser faeries and Sidhe, and definitely hurt and injure Mab and the other faerie queens), and a faerie is bound to its word (meaning that they cannot outright lie and if you make them promise something 3 times, it is impossible for them to break it).

This also means that magic has its weaknesses. Magic should be treated as a tool, not an all-powerful sledgehammer. Magic cannot break the laws of physics (so if you sling a powerful fire spell in an enclosed space, be preferred to suffer some serious burns, if not death). Magic always comes at a price, and that price is generally taken in your personal energy. If the magic is difficult to control or you are using a powerful spell, it will take a huge toll on you personally. Expend all of your energy, and you risk killing yourself with it.


That's pretty much everything I can think of off point. I tried to write this based on the discussion here. Don't take any of this as canon law, I wrote it up so that we had a starting point to hammer out the details. If I left out something you said, let me know, I probably just missed it. I tried to incorporate at least a bit of everything.
 
I think that is an excellent set of rules but I do have one issue with it.

To me, the most appealing part of magic in fantasy settings has been when it's something anyone can learn. While perhaps limited by intelligence in the same way as any field of learning, for the most part even someone with no inherent ability can become a powerful witch or wizard just by their own persistence and practice.

My intention for my nation was to have a land made up mostly of wilderness where people live in biomagically modified giant trees, mushrooms, caves, etc. Here, magic would be something one learns through deep immersion in mystic texts and much study. It would be based around sacred words and math and a connection with the natural and especially non-animal world.

I would suggest, if we're going with a route where magical society is behind a masquerade in some places or something of the sort, that we make magic something anyone can learn but requires so much esoteric and mystical knowledge that few people know it is real or even have any interest in it. Maybe IRL some Kabbalist in Israel is really making golems and the rest of us have no knowledge or interest in that. (I doubt it though)

These are just my thoughts. If people prefer having magic ability to a large extent inborn then I'll go with the flow for my nation.
 
I prefer something in the middle myself - one ordinarily has to be born with the ability to perform magic, but it can be taught to individuals of non-magical birth with enough patience. I tend to link magic with religion in my fantasy roleplays, so either way works for me.
 
Kannex:
Vazos:
Based on my experience in previous roleplays, I do think there should be limits on certain kinds of supernatural beings (gods in particular come to mind) so that we can avoid powergaming. Aside from that, I'm really looking forward to this.
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You could have really weak gods, like the minor Shinto gods.

We are using the normal RP map, yes?
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I believe Syrixia was going to propose an alternate map.
 
mcmasterdonia:
Syrixia:
What about gods? I'd like to RP as Prajapati at some point.
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I'd like to RP as Flemingovia at some point :shifty: :shifty:
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Can I RP as Caesar?

Also, generally speaking, when I RP in a FanT setting, it's been in established universes, which is where my interest lies.

For that reason, I'm probably going to be RPing FanT Imperium as magic-aware, rather than magic-capable, through a government agency utilizing magitech and PMT. I like the idea of an agency trying desperately to characterize magic as being naturalistic, and trying to deal with it as non-magical users - X-Files crossed with MacGyver crossed with Mythbusters, in essence. My FanT RP will be largely in other nations as a result - Imperium likely won't feature particularly heavily in the FanT universe as a setting, except potentially as 'neutral ground' if needed.

Edit: Oh, if we're using alternate maps, then all bets are off. Cool cool cool.
 
Nebula will probably be similar to how it is now. The magicians will be mostly controlled by the state and will be highly disciplined. Nebula will also have a lot of the expansionist policy seen during the Great War, so its forces will clash repeatedly with others.
 
I would prefer if we had some room to have a little more diversity in magic.

In particular, I would like the supernatural community in the Eluvataran Isles to function mainly through a kind of willpower. With sufficient will, and with understanding of what one is doing, one can impose one's will on the world, either imbuing otherwise mundane actions with power beyond the natural or causing outright magical effects in some cases. Practitioners in the isles would rarely practice evocation or kinetomancy, but would tend more to various subtle enchantments and curses. The same properties would apply to certain spirits, generally tied to forests, lakes, streams, mountains, or other localities. there could also be spirits wandering the world in human form, under the guise of an eccentric old man or woman from far away. (The practitioners of the Isles presumably learned what they know from these spirits).
 
Nierr:
Kannex:
Vazos:
Based on my experience in previous roleplays, I do think there should be limits on certain kinds of supernatural beings (gods in particular come to mind) so that we can avoid powergaming. Aside from that, I'm really looking forward to this.
Click to expand...
You could have really weak gods, like the minor Shinto gods.

We are using the normal RP map, yes?
Click to expand...
I believe Syrixia was going to propose an alternate map.
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Yes. And I am at that house now. The alternate map comes this afternoon.

PS: plsplspls can I do it this time? :D I've worked on that map before.
 
I like the idea of integrating it with the current map. That way we can use the same nations, and stuff can carry across multiple forums. I think it'll be a bit unnecessarily complex with separate maps and all that will come with it.

Just my :2c:
 
Eluvatar:
I would prefer if we had some room to have a little more diversity in magic.

In particular, I would like the supernatural community in the Eluvataran Isles to function mainly through a kind of willpower. With sufficient will, and with understanding of what one is doing, one can impose one's will on the world, either imbuing otherwise mundane actions with power beyond the natural or causing outright magical effects in some cases. Practitioners in the isles would rarely practice evocation or kinetomancy, but would tend more to various subtle enchantments and curses. The same properties would apply to certain spirits, generally tied to forests, lakes, streams, mountains, or other localities. there could also be spirits wandering the world in human form, under the guise of an eccentric old man or woman from far away. (The practitioners of the Isles presumably learned what they know from these spirits).
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Aside from the difference in what we effect, it sounds like our ideas are similar. :)

I think giving belief power in magic will allow us to create the diversity you want - the magical qualities in an area would then be based on the prevailing beliefs of the population rather than strict underlying rules, meaning each of us can design our own magical landscapes as we please (and not worry too much about relative power, because practitioners of other kinds of magic would find their powers similarly constrained when visiting other nations).
 
Honestly I think using the same map is a bit blah. I'd prefer a much smaller map where we're talking islands or cities rather than massive hegemonic countries that span continents.
 
SZoKHx4.png
 
SillyString:
Eluvatar:
I would prefer if we had some room to have a little more diversity in magic.

In particular, I would like the supernatural community in the Eluvataran Isles to function mainly through a kind of willpower. With sufficient will, and with understanding of what one is doing, one can impose one's will on the world, either imbuing otherwise mundane actions with power beyond the natural or causing outright magical effects in some cases. Practitioners in the isles would rarely practice evocation or kinetomancy, but would tend more to various subtle enchantments and curses. The same properties would apply to certain spirits, generally tied to forests, lakes, streams, mountains, or other localities. there could also be spirits wandering the world in human form, under the guise of an eccentric old man or woman from far away. (The practitioners of the Isles presumably learned what they know from these spirits).
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Aside from the difference in what we effect, it sounds like our ideas are similar. :)

I think giving belief power in magic will allow us to create the diversity you want - the magical qualities in an area would then be based on the prevailing beliefs of the population rather than strict underlying rules, meaning each of us can design our own magical landscapes as we please (and not worry too much about relative power, because practitioners of other kinds of magic would find their powers similarly constrained when visiting other nations).
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Precisely.

I also think, Myroria, that your suggestion would great. Personally, I almost imagined it as a comparison to the DnD Wizard and Sorcerer: the wizard who works studiously to increase his power, his attunement to magic, and the sorcerer who comes by it more naturally. Hard work should definitely allow someone to "work out" their will, if you will.

If we're voting for a map, I vote for integration with the current map. It'll work better for those who want to play a masquerade within an established nation. Personally, I like the idea of some of the canon from the mainline universe somehow affecting this one.
 
Syrixia:
SZoKHx4.png
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If I joined in, I'd look at some stuff from Norse mythology as I'm very interested in it. As for the map, I'd prefer it stay separate from the current map. I do like the one Syrixia posted.
 
Syrixia:
SZoKHx4.png
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La Mapa es excellente, jefe. Though I am fine using that one or the main world for the fantasy RP. I'm going to aim for a mythology based on a blending of the trickster and mischievous creatures of other cultures (Celtic/Gaelic Fae, Norse Trolls, etc.) mixed with Spirits in the style of Spirited Away and some Maori style masks.
 
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