Military Numbers

@Kannex- And Syrixian loans. You forget that Syrixia is basically an industrial heaven. Poverty is very low and shantytowns are unheard of.

@Kalti- I can settle for 600,000. The 400,000 people discharged from service will definitely help the industry, along with those discharged from the previous wave of dischargement. With all these workers and all these jobs ready, Syrixia might be set during the depression. :D

@Myroria: I guess what you said kind of makes sense. One could compare Kannex and I to how China has more men but the US is better-equipped. Just make China German and make the US and China best friends. You get the point. Each amenity has its advantages.
 
Syrixia:
plembobria:
Syrixia:
Nierr:
It's not been too high if you're going for, let's say... Bangladesh. That's the only country in the real world that has a higher population with a similar land area to you (152 million in 150,000km2 compared to 76 million to 196,000 km2).

Your current population density is 387 per km2. That is similar to India (388 per km2) and Israel (380 per km2). Other nations around that area are Belgium (368) and Haiti (397), which probably tells us something about population density as an indicator of nation development.
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My original intention was to have my population somewhere around where Kannex's is now, at around 200 million. If I were to do this, would it work?
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Nierr was implying that nations with high population densities are poorly developed. So it would work if you wanted Syrixia to be a third world country.
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No, I don't think I'd want that. :rofl:

Still, guys, what do you think? If I increase my population to 200 million, would a 1 million man military be possible? And how would I do this while remaining a first world country? Kannex did it, so it is possible, right?
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Possible. Highly improbable. Militaries are expensive, high densities produce bad economies.*

*With the exception of city-states here.
 
Syrixia:
@Kalti- I can settle for 600,000. The 400,000 people discharged from service will definitely help the industry, along with those discharged from the previous wave of dischargement. With all these workers and all these jobs ready, Syrixia might be set during the depression. :D
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Thousands of unemployed soldiers produce instant jobs?
 
plembobria:
Syrixia:
@Kalti- I can settle for 600,000. The 400,000 people discharged from service will definitely help the industry, along with those discharged from the previous wave of dischargement. With all these workers and all these jobs ready, Syrixia might be set during the depression. :D
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Thousands of unemployed soldiers produce instant jobs?
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Yes, if there are jobs open. And there are jobs open. The government is looking to increase Syrixia's industry so the depression doesn't hurt it as much as it would had industry remained the same. Stocks in Syrixia aren't going up like they used to, but they aren't plummeting. Atleast, not meteorically.
 
Its a fault of a scale I never wanted or was in favour of, because most people only ever approach scale in one of two ways: they ignore it, or they are aware of it and how it limits their, but disregard it anyway.

Functionally they are the same thing but in this instance Syrixia and Kannex are indicative of both schools of thought. Syrixia understands that GBM's claim is slightly bigger than Peru. Kannex already knew that. Kannex probably also knows that his claim is larger than Finland but smaller than the Congo, and only 17,000km2 smaller than Germany - who he so obviously takes inspiration from.

Syrixia's claim is as large - or as small - as Senegal or Kyrgyzstan. Both are nations that have much much smaller populations than his - and he wants to increase that to 200 million. That pushes him to Brazil (204 mil) and Pakistan (190 mil). Brazil is the 5th largest country in the world. Pakistan is the 36th.

My point? Population is as much product of culture, environment and society as it is of the space you have.

My counter-point to my own point? Sometimes the math doesn't add it. And there's at least one example in this topic.
 
Oil, Diamonds, Manufacturing, Tourism, and the finance industry, just to name Syrixia's big industries.

EDIT: @Nierr- I don't want to increase my population anymore. I'm more set on getting back on topic. Would somewhere between 600,000 to 650,000 be acceptable for active troops?
 
We'd rather see a final military strength settlement closer to 500,000 but we would be open to the possibility of upping that to 600,000... maybe a compromise would be in order, say around 550,000 or 575,000 troops. Let us hear what the other nations have to say on the matter.
 
600,000 is doable. I'd like to see what other nations have to say on the matter as well. Post away, folks.
 
Did everyone here overlook the fact that Mr. Insanity just claimed his active military personnel to be the population of New York City?
 
God this thread.

I don't think any nation need 100 nuclear weapons and I applaud Bootsie for pushing for tougher sanctions. It is unrealistic and silly to allow a nation to have that many in our RP world. You cannot use that many anyway, unless you wish to destroy the entire world. The appropriate action would be to sanction those nations for doing so.

I do think though that Syrixia has a fairpoint about Kalti having 250,000 troops per territory, even that sounds excessive given the total size and land mass of the nation, but it is at least a bit more workable. 1 million troops is /massive/.

It's also pretty clear that New Sekai's numbers are totally unrealistic.

I also think that Myroria makes a good point. Why would you need 100 nukes and 1 million troops for an RP purpose? How does that improve things for you? Again, we do not allow nations to simply declare they are the strongest in the world and that is the end of it. Nations who intend to fight wars all the time would have to negotiate how these wars will end in advance, and sometimes they would likely need to lose, in order to keep it fun and interesting.
 
Kalti:
While my nation's military size might be slightly out of proportion, I am always open to suggestions.
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I read another post by you somewhere about the actual break down of your military into different service areas and the like, and it made sense.. but now I cannot find it.
 
mcmasterdonia:
Kalti:
While my nation's military size might be slightly out of proportion, I am always open to suggestions.
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I read another post by you somewhere about the actual break down of your military into different service areas and the like, and it made sense.. but now I cannot find it.
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Do you mean the dispatch (http://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=455340) that details my nation's military structure and how it is broken down at various levels?
 
we have a total military population of 7 million HOWEVER the Wolvesh are a warrior culture and the military run every aspect of life from TV stations & hospitals to train services & plumbers (as part of the civil forces) but our actual combat troops number 2 million divided into 20 legions of 100,000 (including medical and support troops) and we only have the logistical ability to field a million at a time which is reduced further to 500, 000 due to keeping five legions on stand-by for peacekeeping operations in addition to a legion held in New Sekai to man our base there, so we're pretty much only able to field 500, 000 troops at a time.

Also we regard citizens as soldiers from the moment they enter the academy at age 13. The remaining 2 million citizens are either retirees, children or non-wolvesh.

Thought to be honest you're more likely to get a resolution with the Wolvesh through single-combat rather than an actual war, their honour as a people is the thing they prize more than anything so accepting or challenging them to a duel will get you much further than all-out war.
 
Also we have a few nukes but we prefer more precise Heliocannon satellites, less collateral damage plus they look wicked cool and impressive, I refer you to this: https://youtu.be/GeZ3nCXyb_Q?t=4m57s

pretty much sums up WMDs in a nutshell really.

Also we disagree vehemently with biochem weapons.
 
Wolfsea:
we have a total military population of 7 million HOWEVER the Wolvesh are a warrior culture and the military run every aspect of life from TV stations & hospitals to train services & plumbers (as part of the civil forces) but our actual combat troops number 2 million divided into 20 legions of 100,000 (including medical and support troops) and we only have the logistical ability to field a million at a time which is reduced further to 500, 000 due to keeping five legions on stand-by for peacekeeping operations in addition to a legion held in New Sekai to man our base there, so we're pretty much only able to field 500, 000 troops at a time.

Also we regard citizens as soldiers from the moment they enter the academy at age 13. The remaining 2 million citizens are either retirees, children or non-wolvesh.

Thought to be honest you're more likely to get a resolution with the Wolvesh through single-combat rather than an actual war, their honour as a people is the thing they prize more than anything so accepting or challenging them to a duel will get you much further than all-out war.
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Now entering Syrixian stereotype for Wolfsea as "pacifist Klingons"... :lol:
 
He said total military population, not number of officers.

As for my nuclear warheads, that depends on how many Nebula has... the number Kannex will aim for is the number that Nebula has, plus 20 or so.

Kannex keeps chemical weapons and mines in handy for the sake of retaliation, although they are not actively used. Biological weapons have also been developed but are state secrets. We also have kinetic bomber satellites in orbit.
 
Welp. If a single one of those drifts even near Naizerre, expect it shot down. :P
 
Kannex:
He said total military population, not number of officers.

As for my nuclear warheads, that depends on how many Nebula has... the number Kannex will aim for is the number that Nebula has, plus 20 or so.

Kannex keeps chemical weapons and mines in handy for the sake of retaliation, although they are not actively used. Biological weapons have also been developed but are state secrets. We also have kinetic bomber satellites in orbit.
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Even still, it is ridiculous. Read the break down. 2 million combat troops, and having the entire civilian population considered to be soldiers. Sounds like a North Korea that the world should condemn and sanction economically into oblivion.

Also so many nuclear bombs? Going to destroy the entire world, are we? I think we should do better than just one-up man-ship when it comes to weaponry/military stuff.
 
You're right; let's say with my trade surplus I make each of my nuclear warheads three times as potent as its Nebulan counterpart.

EDIT:

I don't know man, international law is pretty weak here. If you can't even stop a rogue state from blatantly violating national sovereignty and a batshit insane queen from blowing up her own people, what good are sanctions? Even in the real world, where the U.N. actually has some power, North Korea isn't bending the knee.
 
I know, right? But it seems like here we have too many North Koreas and some are masquerading as democratic states. I think we can at least limit that or show that it is not the standard or optimum way to RP :P

Plus you don't 'win' RP by having the largest military or the most nukes.

I guess I'd like to see a more organised effort at sanctioning nations. The case in the NPTO against Syrixia now is a good example of what /could/ happen, if other nations didn't give in too easily :P
 
'Standard or optimum way to RP'? Liberal democracies aren't the norm in the world. You're more likely to see a so-called 'democratic republic' ruled by a local warlord or a corrupt party.

I'd say Kannex has been quite successful in defending its security against external threats. :yes:
 
I'm not talking about the system of government when I say optimum way to RP. You can be a democracy, a dictatorship, a communist state, whatever, as far as I care. My nation is hardly a liberal democracy.

My problem is with people who view having millions and millions of troops, and hundreds of nukes, as being the best way to RP as a nation. We should aim to limit /that/ mentality. We also see this with the economy or even sports RP, where nations RP as the best at everything :P
 
Myroria:
We have something more powerful than sanctions: the unstoppable, indestructible, 100% effective Ignore Cannon. ;)
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The worst of them all, the most meaningful.
 
Kannex:
He said total military population, not number of officers.
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Yeah. Kinda like Sparta. I personally see Wolfsea as a pacifist, modern Sparta from Eras.
As for my nuclear warheads, that depends on how many Nebula has... the number Kannex will aim for is the number that Nebula has, plus 20 or so.
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If you want, you can have some of mine. I'm downsizing my arsenal.
Kannex keeps chemical weapons and mines in handy for the sake of retaliation, although they are not actively used. Biological weapons have also been developed but are state secrets. We also have kinetic bomber satellites in orbit.
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You better hope no one finds out about the chem+bio weapons, or else you're in deep crap. As for the kinetic bomber satellites, the same would probably go there. Just hide them by making them multipurpose satellites like I did. My kinetic bomber satellites also serve as communications satellites. This was designed so they could find a target using the Internet and release the tungsten rods. However, this combined use will probably never see actual usage in a war, since Syrixia is currently trying to, ya know, prevent all war in all forms. :D
 
Kannex:
As for my nuclear warheads, that depends on how many Nebula has... the number Kannex will aim for is the number that Nebula has, plus 20 or so.
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And what if Nebula aims for the number you have, plus 20 or so??

It seems to me that you want to be the strongest by default, and I'm not exactly against that idea if you can work out a believable background for that to happen. How's your economy doing? How's your trade doing? How are your scientists doing? How can you afford that without godmodding? And if you can afford them, how the hell do you know how many nuclear warheads Nebula has? Spies? How are your spies doing?

If you want to have the biggest e-penis then you'll have to earn it, and "we are the best at defending ourselves" is just an opinion, at least for now.
 
Lennart:
Kannex:
As for my nuclear warheads, that depends on how many Nebula has... the number Kannex will aim for is the number that Nebula has, plus 20 or so.
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And what if Nebula aims for the number you have, plus 20 or so??

It seems to me that you want to be the strongest by default, and I'm not exactly against that idea if you can work out a believable background for that to happen. How's your economy doing? How's your trade doing? How are your scientists doing? How can you afford that without godmodding? And if you can afford them, how the hell do you know how many nuclear warheads Nebula has? Spies? How are your spies doing?

If you want to have the biggest e-penis then you'll have to earn it, and "we are the best at defending ourselves" is just an opinion, at least for now.
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I wanted Syrixia to be the best by default, and then after the Great War I realized we're all players behind the screen; and we all have something to contribute.

Come down to earth, Kannex. There will never be a "most powerful nation on Eras".
 
Earth... Eras... I have no idea what the terminology means :P ... The Confederation uses the term terra when referring to the planet that TNP is housed on.
 
mcmasterdonia:
Yeah 7 million military officers.. Is your nation like North Korea? Honestly.
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Syrixia:
Now entering Syrixian stereotype for Wolfsea as "pacifist Klingons"... :lol:
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Actually Syrixia pretty much nailed it with the Klingon analogy, plus a bit of Turian form Mass Effect thrown in for good measure (I know most people don't bother with reading the codex stuff but it's there)

Also our government type is a Stratocracy not a democracy unless you count local council and tribal council sort of things to appoint representatives/advisors to the Khan who is trained from birth for the job more or less, i'd probably say that the children of the Khan have significantly less rights than the rest of the population, hell Sebt was considered a renegade for not having an arranged marriage. Besides, we do have a half-million troops ready for NTPO peacekeeping operations on permanent standby so it's not like we're tramping around invading places for no reason. (in fact Cronaal is the only place in RP we've invaded and that was as part of the allied forces.... and even then we withdrew all combat troops and placed the region we captured under Guslant administration while engineers and medics helped rebuilding efforts so I can't really be accused of world domination.)

Also we are hoping, once we've got better diplomatic footing with Helmebaine, to organise a more solid anti-piracy/smuggling operation across the region and contributing floating fortresses to act as mobile command centres for said fleets which we plan to contain ships from every nation involved.

(Also Capeside Cybernauts has gotten to Season 10 so no Wolvesh is leaving until they reach the bit where Johnny blows up the bank with the robot elephant to rescue Helmut from the Mormon Nazi Harp Seals, it's arguably the best episode of the entire 16 season run.)

In fact at we're offering the services of some of our military as mercenaries so you can hire Wolvesh soldiers if you need to, sorta like a kids party entertainment but with more guns. In fact you could even do that.

(Also I am classified as being psychologically Machiavellian so negotiating is more fun for me than war but not by much.)
 
Lennart:
Kannex:
As for my nuclear warheads, that depends on how many Nebula has... the number Kannex will aim for is the number that Nebula has, plus 20 or so.
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And what if Nebula aims for the number you have, plus 20 or so??

It seems to me that you want to be the strongest by default, and I'm not exactly against that idea if you can work out a believable background for that to happen. How's your economy doing? How's your trade doing? How are your scientists doing? How can you afford that without godmodding? And if you can afford them, how the hell do you know how many nuclear warheads Nebula has? Spies? How are your spies doing?

If you want to have the biggest e-penis then you'll have to earn it, and "we are the best at defending ourselves" is just an opinion, at least for now.
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Well then I'll go for a concrete number. Subconscious projection much, Syrixia? I'm not looking to be the strongest in the world; I'm looking to be more powerful than Nebula, which is currently Kannex's most prominent enemy. Kannexan conservatives would not tolerate a missile gap of any sort.

Kannex industrialized in the mid-19th century and saw growth through the 1910s. After a period of military rule in the mid-20th century, Kannex experienced a period of economic prosperity in the 80s and 90s. The current present year I'm using for RP is 2006, which corresponds to a gradual economic slowdown. Nonetheless Kannex still spends much of its budget on defense, taking away from welfare. The money Kannex sucked dry from Pelhafor also helps, as well as the loans we offered to Cronaal and Rhuvanland.

The number of Nebulan warheads would come from intelligence; if intelligence grossly overestimates the number of Nebulan warheads, you'll have more Kannexan warheads. If the number is lower, the Kannexan defense spending spree will be lower. Kannexan agents secured Rhuvish independence and created trouble in Galacta, so I would say the Kannexan intelligence services aren't too shoddy.
 
Kannex:
Kannexan agents secured Rhuvish independence and created trouble in Galacta, so I would say the Kannexan intelligence services aren't too shoddy.
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Screw you too, man. :shakefist:
 
Hiskjriaana has no standing army, but we do have a navy and air force. Our navy is at 700, and our air force is at 1,500 (partly due to our aforementioned national obsession with aviation). The reason why we have no standing army (also the reason why we don't join any alliances) is because Hisk's war policy is we only engage in a war if we have the moral high ground, and if we have the moral high ground then other nations will support us because of it. Also in case of a mainland invasion we have a very nationalist population with lots of guns (since hunting is a big part of our culture).
 
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