Streamlining the RP Forums

St George

St George

RolePlay Moderator
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Deputy Speaker
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Pronouns
He/Him, They/Them
I'd like to start a discussion on streamlining and re-organising the RP subforums, mainly because the forum is incredibly bloated and not organised in an optimum way.

My suggestions - and they are only that:
- Factbook Gallery: Rename this simply to Factbooks and move the Factbook Stories subforum that is currently in the Drafting Plane there as well.
- National RP: this is fine, but perhaps a new name?
- Diplomacy: I would get rid of Negotiations and move all its contents into the top level Diplomacy forum. I'd also ask the DU and NPTO to review just whether they need all the subforums they currently have - I know the NPTO recently did something akin to this - and to think very carefully in future before requesting any more.
- Econ and Trade: this is fine.
- Drafting Plane: I'd rename this to emphasise the out of character nature of this subforum (as opposed to somewhere where rps are drafted like the name currently suggests).
- Map: Rename Cartography? Otherwise keep.
- Character RP: Get rid of it. It's not used (as I type there are 4 topics in that subforum, three of them mine and two of those I have no intention of revisiting).

I welcome any suggestions and comments.
 
I agree and support your suggestions.

I would suggest the NPTO move Peacekeeping Forces under Peace Council and remove the voting chambers. They can use [VOTING] {branch} - {topic} -{ends}. If one must be kept, then use the NPTO Voting Chamber and get rid of the one under the Peace Council. I'd also suggest removing the Peace Council section and changing the NPTO Voting Chamber to "NPTO Grand Hall" to allow the Peace Council to operate out of it.

I don't see any issues with the DU section.
 
I agree with redoing the Factbook parts and getting rid of Character RP, but other than that I think we're fine. I also oppose Raven's suggestion. Things work efficiently as is, and if it ain't broken don't fix it.
 
I think we need a separate area to put Stories of TNP Factbooks. I agree with the Factbooks part, but other than that I don't think it is necessary.
 
Syrixia:
I agree with redoing the Factbook parts and getting rid of Character RP, but other than that I think we're fine. I also oppose Raven's suggestion. Things work efficiently as is, and if it ain't broken don't fix it.
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I respectfully disagree about it not being broke.

[19:52] <@flemingovia> we have 34 groups already, 19 further joinable groups, and 51 alternate permission sets. You can see the problem, I hope.
[19:54] <@flemingovia> And that is just masking. Including archives, our forum has around 250 sections and subsections.

The amount of subsections your RP has means that when a government ministry wants to request sections and an extra group, it is subjected to extra scrutiny because some other organisations in the region have already taken a fecking liberty and requested more and more sections simply because they can.

I'll save my comments about how I have been personally affected by said organisations taking liberties.
 
Cascadia:
I think we need a separate area to put Stories of TNP Factbooks. I agree with the Factbooks part, but other than that I don't think it is necessary.
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This.
 
If there's one thing I may say about the NPTO and DU: Faibuaizu and Helmebaine, while smaller, have been doing fine using only a single thread.

If they're worried about security, namely people using their OOC knowledge and passing it off to their IC nation, then call godmod and RP moderators (which we need more of, but we should get more soon assuming Nierr here gets his DM position) will jump in if necessary.

If they're worried about people who aren't members joining in, simply call threadjack and the OP-will-deliver RP mods will jump in if necessary.

There really isn't any need for so many subforums and groups and maskings for RP forums, imo.

(Edit: Spelled the name of my own alliance wrong >.<)
 
Whilst removing several sections of the NPTO, I believe we should create an Orgonizations subsection in Diplomacy and place the NPTO and DU there whilst also moving the Faibaizu and Helmebaine threads there.
 
Nierr:
I'd like to start a discussion on streamlining and re-organising the RP subforums, mainly because the forum is incredibly bloated and not organised in an optimum way.

My suggestions - and they are only that:
- Factbook Gallery: Rename this simply to Factbooks and move the Factbook Stories subforum that is currently in the Drafting Plane there as well.
Sounds fine
- National RP: this is fine, but perhaps a new name?
idk
- Diplomacy: I would get rid of Negotiations and move all its contents into the top level Diplomacy forum. I'd also ask the DU and NPTO to review just whether they need all the subforums they currently have - I know the NPTO recently did something akin to this - and to think very carefully in future before requesting any more.
okay on the first point. I think the DU at least has a small enough number of sub forums
- Econ and Trade: this is fine.
- Drafting Plane: I'd rename this to emphasise the out of character nature of this subforum (as opposed to somewhere where rps are drafted like the name currently suggests).
Lets calll it "The RP Funtime Coffee Lounge and Chillzone
- Map: Rename Cartography? Otherwise keep.
maybe "The Grand Northern Maping Guild
- Character RP: Get rid of it. It's not used (as I type there are 4 topics in that subforum, three of them mine and two of those I have no intention of revisiting).

I welcome any suggestions and comments.
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Empire of Narnia:
Add an XXX RP section for virgins only. That will get a lot of TNP members to RP.
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:rofl:

In all seriousness, though, I don't really see a huge problem with things as they are now.
 
As a DU member, I think we could kill the voting chambers and proposals forums and just make use of thread titles, based on our activity level.
 
Syrixia:
I agree with redoing the Factbook parts and getting rid of Character RP, but other than that I think we're fine. I also oppose Raven's suggestion. Things work efficiently as is, and if it ain't broken don't fix it.
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If it isn't broken, don't break it. Things can always work better.

And in this case, even if the forum overload is working fine for you, it's absolutely not working fine for the rest of us. Thanks largely to the RP section, the admins have become extremely reluctant to make any forum changes requested by anyone else. There are too many forums, and too many masks, and the RP section really doesn't get special privileges when it comes to needing to condense. You might not care how much work you make for other people but that doesn't mean it isn't happening.

The NPTO does not need an executive office forum. The relevant threads in there can be pinned in the main one. Similarly, voting threads can be marked as and the separate forum for them can be removed. Stick the peacekeeping forces forum inside the peace council, and get rid of the separate voting forum for that too.

I assure you, you will live.
 
Let's get rid of Character Stories and the organization subforums. National RP can stay where it is. I don't really care for renaming or additional forums, because having all our main activity in the National RP subforum isn't so bad. It's a nice, compact nexus for all things that go boom and pow.
 
For what it's worth, I agree the RP forum needs to be cut down. There is absolutely no reason for there to be as many subforums as there are. I understand that international organizations are particularly important in TNP RP, but there is absolutely no reason for them to have as many subforums and categories as they do, let alone membergroups.

I guess I would understand if the NPTO wanted to keep deliberations and votes secret, but why not just work on the honor system? If your country shouldn't know something because it's a non-member, don't RP your nation knowing it. This isn't to mention my personal opinion - that keeping secrets from other members of RP leads to messy stories that look uncoordinated.

I agree that Character RP should be archived. No one uses it, so there's no reason to keep it around.

In general, a streamlined, simple forum is good, not bad. If a forum is easy to understand and navigate, more people will be inclined to participate in RP in general.
 
Myroria:
For what it's worth, I agree the RP forum needs to be cut down. There is absolutely no reason for there to be as many subforums as there are. I understand that international organizations are particularly important in TNP RP, but there is absolutely no reason for them to have as many subforums and categories as they do, let alone membergroups.

I guess I would understand if the NPTO wanted to keep deliberations and votes secret, but why not just work on the honor system? If your country shouldn't know something because it's a non-member, don't RP your nation knowing it. This isn't to mention my personal opinion - that keeping secrets from other members of RP leads to messy stories that look uncoordinated.

I agree that Character RP should be archived. No one uses it, so there's no reason to keep it around.

In general, a streamlined, simple forum is good, not bad. If a forum is easy to understand and navigate, more people will be inclined to participate in RP in general.
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I agree. It is already an unwritten, given part of the RP code that metagaming and godmodding are banned. You don't get to use omniscient OOC vision to help your IC play. On the other hand, however, you shouldn't keep all deliberations a secret. For one thing, they will give inspiration for further RP activity. In addition, there are just some OOC knowledge that we would definitely know about, and wouldn't fall under the category of metagaming. Keeping deliberations and IC closed-door happenings public to OOC vision is for the best.
 
This is my official recogmendation as Minister of Entertainment.

1.) Factbooks
A.) Factbook Stories
2.)RolePlay
A.) Nation RP
B.) Misc. RP
3.) Diplomacy
A.) Embassy Exchange
B.) Democratic Union
I.) DU Council
a.) DU Laws
C.) North Pacific Treaty Organization
I.) NPTO Peace Council
i.) *One Subform of their choosing*
4.) Econ & Trade
5.) OOC Lounge
6.) Cartographer's Office
 
*Note - Negotiations would be merged into Diplomacy itself, The three DU threads would be merged together, All but NPTO Peace Council would be merged into NPTO. And it cuts Character RP section without actually making different types of RP unrepresentable.
 
I like "Drafting Plane" as it is. It's a very original name.

I think National RP ought to be one single forum, without Misc. RP. The different subforums for the two organizations are also unnecessary.
 
Empire of Narnia:
I don't think my suggestion is being given enough thought.
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Oh it's been considered thoroughly, and was debated ad nauseam. I finally decided enough was enough and Lord Lore is currently receiving treatment for being banged over the head with a warhammer.
 
Cascadia:
I think we need a separate area to put Stories of TNP Factbooks.
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Partial solution to this: move the Stories of TNP feature to the main factbooks forum, and pin them. Rename to just Factbooks Feature, and keep the 'factbook stories' subforum for drafting (and rename to reflect that).
Darcania:
If there's one thing I may say about the NPTO and DU: Faibuaizu and Helmebaine, while smaller, have been doing fine using only a single thread.

If they're worried about security, namely people using their OOC knowledge and passing it off to their IC nation, then call godmod and RP moderators (which we need more of, but we should get more soon assuming Nierr here gets his DM position) will jump in if necessary.

If they're worried about people who aren't members joining in, simply call threadjack and the OP-will-deliver RP mods will jump in if necessary.

There really isn't any need for so many subforums and groups and maskings for RP forums, imo.

(Edit: Spelled the name of my own alliance wrong >.<)
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Myroria:
For what it's worth, I agree the RP forum needs to be cut down. There is absolutely no reason for there to be as many subforums as there are. I understand that international organizations are particularly important in TNP RP, but there is absolutely no reason for them to have as many subforums and categories as they do, let alone membergroups.

I guess I would understand if the NPTO wanted to keep deliberations and votes secret, but why not just work on the honor system? If your country shouldn't know something because it's a non-member, don't RP your nation knowing it. This isn't to mention my personal opinion - that keeping secrets from other members of RP leads to messy stories that look uncoordinated.

I agree that Character RP should be archived. No one uses it, so there's no reason to keep it around.

In general, a streamlined, simple forum is good, not bad. If a forum is easy to understand and navigate, more people will be inclined to participate in RP in general.
Click to expand...
Kannex:
Myroria:
For what it's worth, I agree the RP forum needs to be cut down. There is absolutely no reason for there to be as many subforums as there are. I understand that international organizations are particularly important in TNP RP, but there is absolutely no reason for them to have as many subforums and categories as they do, let alone membergroups.

I guess I would understand if the NPTO wanted to keep deliberations and votes secret, but why not just work on the honor system? If your country shouldn't know something because it's a non-member, don't RP your nation knowing it. This isn't to mention my personal opinion - that keeping secrets from other members of RP leads to messy stories that look uncoordinated.

I agree that Character RP should be archived. No one uses it, so there's no reason to keep it around.

In general, a streamlined, simple forum is good, not bad. If a forum is easy to understand and navigate, more people will be inclined to participate in RP in general.
Click to expand...
I agree. It is already an unwritten, given part of the RP code that metagaming and godmodding are banned. You don't get to use omniscient OOC vision to help your IC play. On the other hand, however, you shouldn't keep all deliberations a secret. For one thing, they will give inspiration for further RP activity. In addition, there are just some OOC knowledge that we would definitely know about, and wouldn't fall under the category of metagaming. Keeping deliberations and IC closed-door happenings public to OOC vision is for the best.
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These posts all contain great advice, especially about the honor system (rule of bro).
Kannex:
Let's get rid of Character Stories and the organization subforums. National RP can stay where it is. I don't really care for renaming or additional forums, because having all our main activity in the National RP subforum isn't so bad. It's a nice, compact nexus for all things that go boom and pow.
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I like this idea.

Lord Lore:
*Note - Negotiations would be merged into Diplomacy itself, The three DU threads would be merged together, All but NPTO Peace Council would be merged into NPTO. And it cuts Character RP section without actually making different types of RP unrepresentable.
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I think I like that, but what eventually I'd like to do to phase out organisational subforums entirely.
plembobria:
I like LL's plan. I think drafting plane should be called "Planning Room."
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Planning Room could fit. As could Lore's suggested OOC Lounge.
 
Going partially on Lore's suggestions, my own latest one:
1.) Factbooks - For completed/full factbooks and the Factbooks Feature
A.) Factbook Stories/Drafting - For drafting/advice
2.) Nation RP - RPs of nations or pertaining to nations or of your nations etc etc
3.) Diplomacy - Main level forum for things that currently go into Negotiations and all other diplomacy
A.) Embassy Exchange - Embassies/Consulates
B.) Democratic Union - DU forums. Willing to take input from members on the precise setup.
I.) DU Council
a.) DU Laws
C.) North Pacific Treaty Organization - NPTO forums. See DU but I am entirely against a set up that means many subforums.
I.) NPTO Peace Council
i.) *One Subform of their choosing*
4.) Econ & Trade - Fine like this. New name suggestions welcome. A directory of businesses could be set up at some point?
5.) OOC Lounge/Planning Room/Drafting Plane - Really would like to drop that last name. Place for out of character topics and discussions.
6.) Cartographer's Office/Guild - Map.
 
I personally would like to further consolidate the DU and the NPTO into a single-subforum each of an Organizations forum. That would allow us to treat Faibuaizu and Helmebaine more fairly, by opening up a sub-forum for them to utilize as well, if they wish. I'm not saying we should /now/, I'm saying the option to treat either of them as equal with the DU and NPTO is one we should keep open for the future.

However, given that they have not been operating with a single-subforum so far, that might not be possible. Despite that, it is a long-term goal I would like to suggest to their administration.

I'm, personally, happy to keep the Map as its own forum, and happy to keep OOC Planning as its own forum. At first glance, I wanted to move Factbook drafting into OOC Planning, but thinking about it I don't think that would work. So I'm happy to keep Factbook Drafting as a subforum of Factbooks.

I third Narnia's suggestion.

I'm not convinced on separating Nation RP and Diplomacy, but I'll defer to the majority opinion on that one, and I'm happy to keep 'Economics and Trade' as its own forum. That is on the grounds that storefronts are (and should be) a dime a dozen, and are generally significantly different to other forms of RP by enough that they warrant entirely different treatment.

I've never liked Embassy and Consulate forums for nation RP - they are somewhat contrived in my opinion, and don't add a huge amount. If you want to have an embassy with another nation, that's generally something which will exist as a result of the general goings-on of diplomacy.
 
As a note, probably going to see some movement on this shortly.
 
hmmm. good question. maybe that should be the DU Voting forum?
 
That would be OK, I guess.

I would like to see DU Laws outside DU Council as opposed to inside. I think that would be something outsiders would want to be able to see.
 
For the record, what was finally decided upon was this:

1. Factbooks
-> Factbook Stories
2. National RP
3. Negotiations
->Embassy Exchange
->Democratic Union (with the following subforums:
->DU Voting Chamber
->DU Laws)
->North Pacific Treaty Organisation (with the following subforums:
->NPTO Assembly
->NPTO Peacekeeping Forces)
4. Trade and Economics
5. The Lounge
6. Cartography

I will post a new topic for feedback and any problems after the changes are made.
 
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