[discussion] The Democratic Union

If DU nations wanted to join any new organisation then they'd probably need to leave DU.

Which would in fact be a decent basis for this new org. Several DU nations don't like the way the DU is heading and so break off, adding in a few non-aligned nations as well.
 
Bootsie:
Would members of the DU be invited to the new organization or would they be polar opposites?
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Honestly I don't know, i would like to hear what Narnia has to say.
As a menber of the DU i think i should leave it, but i think anyone who wants to join is welcome (WHILE THOSE WHO REMAIN WILL BE CRUSHED AHAHAH AHAHAH AHAHAHAH).
 
Depends on the organization's requirements. All I know is personally I'd rather stay in the DU.
 
Because of the Collective Defense Agreement, I think it'd be great if this organization was created. The DU's basically a NATO now. I think many nations might feel intimidated, and ally together to protect themselves. I am reminded of Russia's alliance with France against Germany ahead of WWI, the French & British pact with Poland in response to the German-Italian-Japanese alliance & those nations' expansionism, and the obvious NATO/Warsaw Pact comparison that only ended about 25 years ago.
 
Nessuno:
Bootsie:
Would members of the DU be invited to the new organization or would they be polar opposites?
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Honestly I don't know, i would like to hear what Narnia has to say.
As a menber of the DU i think i should leave it, but i think anyone who wants to join is welcome (WHILE THOSE WHO REMAIN WILL BE CRUSHED AHAHAH AHAHAH AHAHAHAH).
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It would kinda defeat the purpose of a competing organization if someone could be a member of the DU and the proposed alternate organization at once. To use the Cold War example nobody was in NATO and the Warsaw Pact at the same time. I think DU members should be allowed to be observer states but to be a full member they would have to renounce membership to the DU. From an OOC perspective this would allow the established community to play a role in building the new organization while still keeping an IC rivalry between the DU and whatever the new organization will be.
 
Alta Italia:
Because of the Collective Defense Agreement, I think it'd be great if this organization was created. The DU's basically a NATO now. I think many nations might feel intimidated, and ally together to protect themselves. I am reminded of Russia's alliance with France against Germany ahead of WWI, the French & British pact with Poland in response to the German-Italian-Japanese alliance & those nations' expansionism, and the obvious NATO/Warsaw Pact comparison that only ended about 25 years ago.
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Eh that is actually not as common as you think and both of your examples are not actually true. For instance the first was actually the product of almost a thousand years of noble and economic ties and had started a quarter century before any hostilities broke out. And everyone had some sort of pact with poland before WWII, Poland was actually closer allies with Germany before the invasion then it was with France, even having a German-Polish Non-Agression Pact.
 
Hitler intended to break the pact all along, though. I'm sure an invasion of Poland (providing Hitler's "living space") was included in Mein Kampf, and I believe Hitler told senior members of his government that he wished to ultimately invade Poland a few years before he actually did it. I can't remember the exact quote, though I think I could probably find it if I had to. Besides, Poland knew that Hitler wanted its land - especially the Polish Corridor (and Danzig, though that wasn't fully Polish at the time, if I'm not mistaken) - and was looking to London & Paris for reassurances that they would help in case of a Nazi invasion. Also, thousands of years of history existed between most nations in Europe in 1914. Nevertheless, when 22 nations enter into a military alliance, that can intimidate some nations, provoking them to ally together in defense; notwithstanding my examples, my point there is valid, correct?
 
Lord Lore:
Nessuno:
Lord Lore:
When it comes down to it taking names and organizational structure from starwars is just so tired among the top of the list of names taken from star wars is the CIS, Confederacy of Independent Systems and bastardized versions of said.
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In part is true, but i also thought that in opposition to a union we need a confederacy.
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But the Union itself is not a Federation, technically the DU itself is a Confederation. Also, you act as if a Confederation is inherently a bad thing or at least the imposition of democracy which it is not.
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I was really hoping for an Evil League of Evil...

How about The Greater North Pacific Co-Prosperity Sphere?
 
Piscivore:
Lord Lore:
Nessuno:
Lord Lore:
When it comes down to it taking names and organizational structure from starwars is just so tired among the top of the list of names taken from star wars is the CIS, Confederacy of Independent Systems and bastardized versions of said.
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In part is true, but i also thought that in opposition to a union we need a confederacy.
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But the Union itself is not a Federation, technically the DU itself is a Confederation. Also, you act as if a Confederation is inherently a bad thing or at least the imposition of democracy which it is not.
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I was really hoping for an Evil League of Evil...

How about The Greater North Pacific Co-Prosperity Sphere?
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Let's stay away from evil and Fascist names. If all you guys want is a blatantly evil punching bag for the DU then we shouldn't even bother with it. It will be doomed from the start and nobody would join it. I wouldn't join it if it was just some lame Axis rip-off.
 
Names don't really matter. What's more important is this new org having a charter and some reason to exist.

Everything else is just filler.
 
Nierr:
Names don't really matter. What's more important is this new org having a charter and some reason to exist.

Everything else is just filler.
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As has already been said, this organization is founded primarily to those nations that can't be admitted to DU, and also for those nation who want to join.

NPTO?
 
Or the Collective Universal Nations Tribunal? (sorry. this one has been in the back of my mind since names were started to be suggested. I had to get it out there.)
 
Nessuno:
Nierr:
Names don't really matter. What's more important is this new org having a charter and some reason to exist.

Everything else is just filler.
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As has already been said, this organization is founded primarily to those nations that can't be admitted to DU, and also for those nation who want to join.

NPTO?
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Why would those nations want to join a organisation, especially considering that the DU doesn't even offer them anything - except an island and some rules for warfare that put them at a disadvantage?

And again, names are meaningless at this point.
 
midtkandal:
Or the Collective Universal Nations Tribunal? (sorry. this one has been in the back of my mind since names were started to be suggested. I had to get it out there.)
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i c wot u did ther
 
But the ELE/GNPCPS/CNPS/NPTO/EVILNP/CUNT organization would need to have a purpose. I think the most obvious choices are either an organization of evil dictators dedicated to the destruction of democracy, and thus, the DU, or a general collective defense agreement, composed of nations regardless of their ideology, standing against the massive military alliance that the DU has quickly become. Plus, once we get the purpose down, names will be easier to come up with, I think.
 
Nierr:
Nessuno:
Nierr:
Names don't really matter. What's more important is this new org having a charter and some reason to exist.

Everything else is just filler.
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As has already been said, this organization is founded primarily to those nations that can't be admitted to DU, and also for those nation who want to join.

NPTO?
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Why would those nations want to join a organisation, especially considering that the DU doesn't even offer them anything - except an island and some rules for warfare that put them at a disadvantage?

And again, names are meaningless at this point.
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Because we need a rival organization, without it the DU is devoid of prupose.
As there is no light without darkness, good without evil, peace without war, there is no DU without a rival.
 
Alta Italia:
But the ELE/GNPCPS/CNPS/NPTO/EVILNP/CUNT organization would need to have a purpose. I think the most obvious choices are either an organization of evil dictators dedicated to the destruction of democracy, and thus, the DU, or a general collective defense agreement, composed of nations regardless of their ideology, standing against the massive military alliance that the DU has quickly become. Plus, once we get the purpose down, names will be easier to come up with, I think.
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But again as has been said no one wants an "evil organization" we do not in any way have those types of nations around in the numbers that would allow for such. NO ONE WOULD JOIN IT, especially when you set it up for fail.
Nessuno:
Because we need a rival organization, without it the DU is devoid of prupose.
As there is no light without darkness, good without evil, peace without war, there is no DU without a rival.
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The good-evil/yin-yang narrative is not the only one out there, you can make a rival without making a polar opposite. For instance SICA and NAFTA are rivals, both economic alliances in different parts of the world. Does that make SICA or NAFTA evil and the other good? Not in the slightest.
 
Alta Italia:
...or a general collective defense agreement, composed of nations regardless of their ideology, standing against the massive military alliance that the DU has quickly become.
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This is what I'm thinking. A looser collective defense organization that doesn't seek to add another layer of bureaucracy above a nation, maybe a good-hearted, friendly nation that just wants to do it some science, that is already subject to to the whims of the WA and the regional governments.
 
I'd like that as well. On that note, maybe we can see which nations' ideologies mesh well together, to see what a Anti-DU might focus on. For example, Alta Italia is big on education & the environment, though it tries to balance it with the economy, believes that the right to vote is sacrosanct, and is trying to beef up its military as well. It is basically a welfare state, has very high taxes, is religiously apathetic, and is left-wing. What qualities or ideals would you guys like to see in an "anti-DU?" What kind of organization would you want to join?
 
SICA and NAFTA are economical alliances, so they aren't the best example.
And then it is not true that no one wants an evil organization.
 
Nessuno:
Nierr:
Nessuno:
Nierr:
Names don't really matter. What's more important is this new org having a charter and some reason to exist.

Everything else is just filler.
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As has already been said, this organization is founded primarily to those nations that can't be admitted to DU, and also for those nation who want to join.

NPTO?
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Why would those nations want to join a organisation, especially considering that the DU doesn't even offer them anything - except an island and some rules for warfare that put them at a disadvantage?

And again, names are meaningless at this point.
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Because we need a rival organization, without it the DU is devoid of prupose.
As there is no light without darkness, good without evil, peace without war, there is no DU without a rival.
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The UD
 
It shouldn't just be about evilness. It should be for militaristic nations or nations that don't exactly embrace democracy. Other systems of government besides dictatorship and absolute monarchy would work too, such as socialism or [REDACTED]
 
Syrixia:
It shouldn't just be about evilness. It should be for militaristic nations or nations that don't exactly embrace democracy. Other systems of government besides dictatorship and absolute monarchy would work too, such as socialism or [REDACTED]
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pls b comunizm
 
Syixia and Cronaal. Socialism and Communism are socioeconomic policies. Why do you act like they are opposites of Democracy, which is a political system. You can easily have Communist or Socialist Democracies.
 
Syrixia:
Ah ok. But the point still stands. Every NATO needs a Warsaw Pact.
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Which is a false statement since there has not been a warsaw pact or anything close for going on 24 years

And dont even try to say the CSTO is its successor because the CSTO does absolutely nothing in practice. Their members fight all the time and refuse to help each other in any meaningful way, even letting one of their governments fall to a coup. And the only thing the CSTO actually does is destabilize its own members.
 
You're correct, Lord Lore, though just because the Pact is gone doesn't mean the metaphor I am using is now invalid. You should be able to tell what it means.

Also, Nessuno, before you accept members you should organize it, and I'd recommend you get a veteran nation with you to help you organize; you know. Make a structure, appoint a leader who is very familiar with legislation and leading international organizations, etc etc etc.
 
Syrixia:
You're correct, Lord Lore, though just because the Pact is gone doesn't mean the metaphor I am using is now invalid. You should be able to tell what it means.

Also, Nessuno, before you accept members you should organize it, and I'd recommend you get a veteran nation with you to help you organize; you know. Make a structure, appoint a leader who is very familiar with legislation and leading international organizations, etc etc etc.
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Thanks Syrixia but how i can organize something that doesn't exist?
First recruting members and then lay down the rules. Also is obvious that i'm the leader of this organization.
 
I was going to say you'd make a good leader for the organization as well, but I should advise you get a veteran nation to join so they can advise you and possibly fill a position.
 
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