Progressive Party

Whamabama:
Yes, I would have to agree with Grim here. Personal attacks, bullying, or poking fun of observers (plural) has not happened. Nor do I see it happening in the future.
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Considering how you called me a "rat shit" while I couldn't respond back Wham, that is an outright lie.

Proof:
(12-Oct-11 20:42:33) Wham: ya, I thought about warning to watch what you say, because Gov will rat you out like the rat shit he is
(12-Oct-11 20:42:39) Wham: and you left
(12-Oct-11 20:43:13) Agamemnon: lol
(12-Oct-11 20:43:15) Agamemnon: Technically everything we say in here can be logged and posted anyway.
(12-Oct-11 20:44:07) Agamemnon: Anyway, time to get dressed for work.
(12-Oct-11 20:44:14) Agamemnon: Hopefully I'll be able to get IRC working at the site.
(12-Oct-11 20:44:22) Agamemnon: Verizon is so fickle about it.
(12-Oct-11 20:45:37) Wham: ya that's why I didn't bother
(12-Oct-11 20:46:22) Wham: besides half the fun is making fun of the retard in the corner right?
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And today:

(16-Oct-11 17:19:20) Wham: this place has gotten quiet.
(16-Oct-11 17:19:45) Wham: Probably because we haven't taken the garbage out in a while...
(16-Oct-11 17:19:54) Wham: So when we banning Gov?
(16-Oct-11 17:20:04) Wham: the smell is getting bad
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(16-Oct-11 19:11:35) Blue_Wolf: "Taunting mute observers is egregiously poor form and frowned upon" <---- lulz
(16-Oct-11 19:12:41) RabbiCellophane: Gov isn't mute, he's in a state of involuntary silence.
(16-Oct-11 19:12:46) RabbiCellophane: :D
(16-Oct-11 19:12:53) Blue_Wolf: Kinky
(16-Oct-11 19:13:53) Agamemnon: o/
(16-Oct-11 19:14:07) Blue_Wolf: o/
(16-Oct-11 19:26:31) Wham: Gov is such an idiot
(16-Oct-11 19:26:54) Blue_Wolf: He's secretly a furry.
(16-Oct-11 19:27:16) RabbiCellophane: The Wrath and the Furry
(16-Oct-11 19:27:20) Wham: wouldn't shock me
(16-Oct-11 19:27:25) Agamemnon: Taunting mute observers is egregiously poor form and frowned upon <-
(16-Oct-11 19:27:36) Blue_Wolf: That's the joke
(16-Oct-11 19:28:45) Dali [~Dali@75.157.82.32] entered the room.
(16-Oct-11 19:28:45) mode (+v Dali) by ChanServ
(16-Oct-11 19:29:01) Wham: Besides if Gov didn't want us to talk the truth about him, he should know better than to come here
(16-Oct-11 19:29:11) RabbiCellophane: That's an awful big word there Ag.
(16-Oct-11 19:29:43) ***Dali looks at his wine glass, and figures he needs another if this is the topic.
(16-Oct-11 19:29:59) Wham: yes, it's the "I hate Gov hour"
(16-Oct-11 19:30:31) ***Wham hands out the I hate Gov" T-shirts
(16-Oct-11 19:30:40) ***Dali yawns
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Yea, you fail at lying Wham.

You have engaged in personal attacks at observers - me being the main observer.

You owe me an apology if you dare call yourself a mature human being. I haven't said or done anything to you, and you and Biyah were the ones that trolled me and got me banned from the #tnp channel by Dali, and now you personally attack me when I don't say anythign to you. You have no right.

Eluvatar has told you guys to knock it off and you don't even listen to your party leader. Grow the hell up and stop acting like a bully. No wonder people won't support your party goals because you peronally attack those who disagree with you.
 
Actually I have not lied. Though you do FAIL at reading.

I say again.

Yes, I would have to agree with Grim here. Personal attacks, bullying, or poking fun of observers (plural) has not happened. Nor do I see it happening in the future.
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You have engaged in personal attacks at observers - me being the main observer.
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You have posted logs without permission. I believe that is frowned upon in TNP, perhaps illegal.

Anyway the logs are there, I don't see "observers being insulted, just you. That's singular.

You got banned from #TNP because of your behaivor in there. It's the way you always behaive.

Also why as far as I am concerned your not welcome to observe. I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't want you in there, and until you are removed, it's going to continue to be an issue.
 
unibot:
Grosseschnauzer:
Personally. I have preferred reliance on the ingame status of the TNP nation and its presence in the region, and removal or suspension with CTE status, and having a continuous record of a player's WA nation to enforce the ”one player, one vote” rule.
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Then why do we have the most (?) strict guidelines out of all the feeders in regards to how one can maintain membership? (1) One must post on the forums every two weeks and (2) one must attend votes with two misses counting as a neglect of duties.. even though proper communication of votes hasn't even been formalized or mandated.

I think if these policies were applied to any other feeder, you'd see their assemblies reduced to a very small amount of people with the patience to log into the forum to do.. nothing at all and claim power. This dedication may be honourable, but it gets us nowhere if we're trying to develop a region and actually get it doing things as a community.
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Let's be clear. I am not the one who proposed.changing the activity requirement in the RA from.30 to 15 days. There are those who seem to think if you mandate activity then that will.forrce.it.to happen.
I haven.t been a paeticular supporter.of inactivity requirements. Communication with RA members, especially with the number who have active RL who reside in TNP,.is far more likely to.stimulate.activity. The problem has been that the move.from Jolt for the game, and the migration these forums made to Zetaboards cost.us two.ways of using email.to notif those who have retained a email.address in their member records here.
I do not agree with the perception that TNP membership rwquirement are restrictive, the issue is activity. For instance, from what I understnd, some of the.proponents of the constituent assembly want to allow.all WAs in Tnp to participate. What some of y'all are missing is that WAmembership of the TNP nation is not a requirement here. All we ask.is a record.of who.the player uses.as.a WA nation so that we can maintain a.one player, one vote rule. Keep in mind that the Bill of Rights prohibits requiring WA membership as a condition of participation in the governmenral authorities.of TNP. Therefore, limiting voters or participation in the consistuent assembly to those with a WA nations in TNP violates our Bill of Rights, period.
The real issue then is the activity requirement and how to assure a genuine intent of residency and participation in TNP.
This is the larger problem with the constituent assembly idea that makes it fundamentally flawed, it is why I take a position that the proposal is not ready for prime time, and why I think thr requirements to join is broader and not narrower than some have argued.
If you want to loosen the activity requirements, go for.it, as long as we're left with some way of not having a majority who are players who no one has seen and whose nations have CTE for a long time. That would look even worse.
 
Whamabama:
Actually I have not lied. Though you do FAIL at reading.

I say again.

Yes, I would have to agree with Grim here. Personal attacks, bullying, or poking fun of observers (plural) has not happened. Nor do I see it happening in the future.
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You have engaged in personal attacks at observers - me being the main observer.
Click to expand...

You have posted logs without permission. I believe that is frowned upon in TNP, perhaps illegal.

Anyway the logs are there, I don't see "observers being insulted, just you. That's singular.

You got banned from #TNP because of your behaivor in there. It's the way you always behaive.

Also why as far as I am concerned your not welcome to observe. I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't want you in there, and until you are removed, it's going to continue to be an issue.
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Eluvatar has said that logs may be posted publicly for TNPers to see, deal with it.

I was an observer, and yes I was insulted. You were out of line and you know it, period.

You got me banned from TNP for trolling me. Even Thel saw the logs and saw you were trolling.

You lied, and you owe me an apology for your inappropriate behaviour.

I don't care if don't like me. Get over it kid, act like an adult, not like a child, and learn to show some respect to every here like a proper decent human being.

Eluvatar doesn't mind my observing, and heactually warned you people twice from attacking people who observe, including myself. So yes, you were completely out of line in attacking me, despite being told by your own party leader not to.

You are in the wrong here, not me this time period. Learn to respect everyone and act like a mature adult to everyone, regardless of how you like them. It's called showing human decency and civility.

You and the others who insulted me owe me an apology and that's fact. You are in the wrong here, not me. So were the others.
 
You aren't in our party. You weren't granted permission. Yes our in session meetings are posted, but only when in session, and is done by party members.

Did I insult you? Of course I did. Though if you want me to say I am sorry, you are going to have to do more than demand it. You are going to have to deserve it first

And this is my last post on this subject. This subject is distracting to the real work that needs to be done.
 
Whamabama:
You aren't in our party. You weren't granted permission. Yes our in session meetings are posted, but only when in session, and is done by party members.

Did I insult you? Of course I did. Though if you want me to say I am sorry, you are going to have to do more than demand it. You are going to have to deserve it first

And this is my last post on this subject. This subject is distracting to the real work that needs to be done.
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You owe me an apology for your inappropriate behaviour and you know that for a fact.

Why don't you learn to be a man and admit you were wrong and be humble and apologise, and show some proper courtesy and decency for once, if you dare call yourself the pathetic human being you are?

Everyone deserves respect and courtesy here in this region and your attitude is unbecoming of what the party wants for the region. Be a man, grow up, be mature for once in your life and apologise for acting like a complete dick when it was completely unwarranted. Your actions were inappropriate and were uncalled for, that's fact. You have no right to tell me I do not deserve respect because everyone does in this region, so man up and act like an adult, not like a bullying child, period.
 
Govindia:
Whamabama:
You aren't in our party. You weren't granted permission. Yes our in session meetings are posted, but only when in session, and is done by party members.

Did I insult you? Of course I did. Though if you want me to say I am sorry, you are going to have to do more than demand it. You are going to have to deserve it first

And this is my last post on this subject. This subject is distracting to the real work that needs to be done.
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You owe me an apology for your inappropriate behaviour and you know that for a fact.

Why don't you learn to be a man and admit you were wrong and be humble and apologise, and show some proper courtesy and decency for once, if you dare call yourself the pathetic human being you are?

Everyone deserves respect and courtesy here in this region and your attitude is unbecoming of what the party wants for the region. Be a man, grow up, be mature for once in your life and apologise for acting like a complete dick when it was completely unwarranted. Your actions were inappropriate and were uncalled for, that's fact. You have no right to tell me I do not deserve respect because everyone does in this region, so man up and act like an adult, not like a bullying child, period.
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You don't get to flame me in a public regional forum, and get an apology. You may not have liked what I may have said, but at least I didn't do it in public for everyone to see. I don't or try not to do my dirty laundry in public.

I have not flamed you on a region forum, and I won't now. You can't say the same.
 
ADMIN hat on.

A report was made about this thread, but I'm not going to issue any warnings. The parts of the thead involving Govindia or about him seem to be something y'all need to take to PMs.

Their IRC channel is outside anyone's jurisdiction here just like the TNP's channel is.

Complaints about it do not belong in threads here. Likewise, the tone being used about Govindia could develop into a TOU problem. And one thing I will not tolerate is using these forums as a battleground for personal atacks IC or OOC over things that happen elsewhere.

As to those sorts of things, it is time to move on or move to PMs.

Takes ADMIN hat off.
 
I was just waiting to get to a computer to say exactly what you said Gross. Since this is an Admin created thread I will leave it to them as to whether they would like the off-topic posts split out.
 
Grosseschnauzer:
Grosseschnauzer:
*snip*
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Wow, you should get inebriated more often. I'd agree with you. :P

On your last point, "as long as we're left with some way of not having a majority who are players who no one has seen and whose nations have CTE for a long time", I disagree that this is really a problem, it's more just a frivolous problem brought up by people trying to justify restrictive inactivity policies. If people aren't active they're not affecting our assembly either way (unless we have quorum levels for something) and nobody is tallying up our members and checking to see who is inactive and who is not and giggling at the disparities .. not even TRR.. and if they do exist.. who gives a crap? Perhaps they'd prefer to try to stir some activity up instead as opposed to simply whining about activity.
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An update as to the party rolls:

1. Eluvatar
2. Gulliver
3. Dalimbar (Dali)
4. Whamabama
5. A Mean Old Man (AMOM)
6. Haxstree
7. Felasia
8. Greater Peterstan
9. Grimalkin (Agamemnon)
10. Blue Wolf II (Blue_Wolf)
11. Dyr Nasad (Dyr)
12. Oliver
13. Harmoneia
14. New Kervoskia (RabbiCellophane)
15. Todd McCloud
16. Moo-Cows with guns (MooCows)
 
Well, I've given up on our constituent assembly proposal.

Now I'm just directly proposing changes.

I'd like to call a Party Congress on Friday at 8 PM on the subject, unless a better time is suggested.
 
Eluvatar:
1: Anyone who is or has been in the RA may join. [OVERRIDEN]
2: Eluvatar is the chairman.
3: fundamental reform of the Constitution and Legal Code to be the top priority of the party
4: Party color is red.
5: Party name is Progressive Party (abbreviated ProP
6: The North Pacific ProP is working from the Taijitu ProP charter as a basis for discussion of its own charter ( http://wiki.taijitu.org/wiki/Charter_of_the_Progressive_Party )
7: Gulliver is tasked with coming up with a party logo ]COMPLETED]
8: A committee of Dalimbar, Gulliver, and Eluvatar are tasked with proposing a list of defined values for the party charter by Wednesday, October 12.
9: One needs 3 sponsorships to join the party, and may be removed by a 2/3 vote at any time. [SUPERSEDES 1]
10:
1. Any member may convoke a Party Congress with at least 72 hours warning, declaring the business and time of the Congress in advance, posting on the forums.
2. Party Congresses must be held in the official party channel, #ncpp on Esper.
3. No Congress may propose new business without 72 hours notice.
4. If multiple congresses are convoked to take place during the same period of time, they will be folded into one Congress which will address the combined list of business.
5. The deliberations of a Party Congress will be logged and publicly displayed on the forums. The deliberations may only be censored by vote of the Congress for personal privacy reasons.
6. If an absolute majority of all party members votes for the final statement of a Party Congress, it will immediately take effect.
7. Otherwise, the vote will be continued on the forum.
8. If a majority of the party votes for or against, the vote will end.
9. If a week has gone by since the Congress proposing the vote, the vote will close.
11:
Rmxgd.png
adopted as party logo.
12: The Party will propose http://pastebin.com/ssQWiwNG as an amendment to the Constitution. Alterations to the Amendment must be approved in a vote of the party to be considered friendly.
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Under resolution 10's provisions I am calling a party congress to take place in #ncpp on Esper at 0000 UTC Thursday March 29th (2000 EDT Wednesday March 28th ) . It is reachable to all North Pacificans by going to the forum's IRC page and typing "/j #ncpp".

The business for this congress shall be:

Agenda:
  • A Party Manifesto with regard to the ongoing special election and the approaching Judicial election. This manifesto may include party nominees for the Delegacy, Executive Offices, and Judicial Positions, as well as pledges exacted of said nominees and positions on matters of policy.
  • Revision of party rules including the procedure for calling Party Congresses and possible adoption of a cohesive party constitution or charter.
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For your convenience, the quote above is dated to the time the congress will begin.

New citizens of the North Pacific are invited to join the Congress, with the consent of three members. The Chair recognizes the below list of nations as current members.

1. Eluvatar
2. Gulliver
3. Whamabama
4. A Mean Old Man (AMOM)
5. Haxstree
6. Felasia
7. Grimalkin (Agamemnon)
8. Blue Wolf II (Blue_Wolf)
9. Dyr Nasad (Dyr)
10. Oliver
11. Todd McCloud
12. Moo-Cows with guns (MooCows)
 
Just now Earth22 (Earth) joined with sponsorship from Eluvatar, Grimalkin (Agamemnon), and Todd Mccloud.

Then, Hileville joined with sponsorship from Todd Mccloud, Eluvatar, and Earth22.
 
Updated membership rolls:

1. Eluvatar
2. Gulliver *
3. Whamabama *
4. A Mean Old Man (AMOM)
5. Haxstree *
6. Felasia
7. Grimalkin (Agamemnon)
8. Blue Wolf II (Blue_Wolf)
9. Dyr Nasad (Dyr)
10. Oliver *
11. Todd McCloud *
12. Moo-Cows with guns (MooCows) *
13. Earth22 (Earth)
14. Hileville
15. mcmasterdonia

Marked with a * ProP members who are not current Regional Assembly members.
 
The Fifth Party Congress has recessed, here are the deliberations so far:

#ncpp:
[28 Mar 20:01] <Eluvatar> The Fifth Congress of the Progressive Party of the North Pacific is hereby opened.
[28 Mar 20:01] --- Eluvatar changed mode: +vvv Hileville Evil_Wolf Earth
[28 Mar 20:02] <Evil_Wolf> Hail!
[28 Mar 20:02] --> Limi joined the channel
[28 Mar 20:02] --> Gulliver joined the channel
[28 Mar 20:02] --- Eluvatar changed mode: +v Gulliver
[28 Mar 20:02] <Gulliver> ???
[28 Mar 20:02] <Eluvatar> 20:01 <@Eluvatar> The Fifth Congress of the Progressive Party of the North Pacific is hereby opened.
[28 Mar 20:02] <Gulliver> Eluvatar, I have a Japanese project due on Friday D:
[28 Mar 20:03] <Earth> Limi does not get voice?
[28 Mar 20:03] <Eluvatar> let me check the membership roll again
[28 Mar 20:03] <Eluvatar> Nope not a member :(
[28 Mar 20:03] <Earth> Aww.
[28 Mar 20:03] <Earth> Okey.
[28 Mar 20:04] <Eluvatar> The members are:
[28 Mar 20:04] <Gulliver> Motion to voice Limi as honorary member
[28 Mar 20:04] <Earth> Seconded!
[28 Mar 20:04] --> AMOM joined the channel
[28 Mar 20:04] --- ChanServ changed mode: +v AMOM
[28 Mar 20:04] <Hileville> Third
[28 Mar 20:05] <AMOM> Ehhhhhhhh.
[28 Mar 20:05] <Eluvatar> Eluvatar, Gulliver, Wham, AMOM, Haxstree, Felasia, Agamemnon, Blue_Wolf, Dyr, Oliver, Todd_McCloud, and MooCows
[28 Mar 20:05] <Eluvatar> VOTE on voicing Limi as an honorary member:
[28 Mar 20:05] <Gulliver> Aye
[28 Mar 20:05] <Eluvatar> (Aye to voice, overriding standard procedure, Nay to not voice, and remain with standard procedure)
[28 Mar 20:05] <Eluvatar> (1:0:0:5:6)
[28 Mar 20:06] <AMOM> Aye.
[28 Mar 20:06] <Eluvatar> (2:0:0:5:5)
[28 Mar 20:06] <Evil_Wolf> Aye
[28 Mar 20:06] <Eluvatar> (decided to change order of present:absent from absent:present)
[28 Mar 20:06] <Eluvatar> (3:0:0:4:5)
[28 Mar 20:07] <Earth> Aye.
[28 Mar 20:07] --> Parhe joined the channel
[28 Mar 20:07] <Eluvatar> (4:0:0:3:5)
[28 Mar 20:07] <Eluvatar> Motion carries
[28 Mar 20:07] --- Eluvatar changed mode: +v Limi
[28 Mar 20:07] <Hileville> Umm... I thought I was a member
[28 Mar 20:08] <Eluvatar> oh crap
[28 Mar 20:08] <Eluvatar> I didn't add the new members in that list
[28 Mar 20:08] <Eluvatar> because I looked att he wrong post
[28 Mar 20:08] <Earth> me neither. :P
[28 Mar 20:08] <Eluvatar> because there are 2 pages of posts by me in that thread
[28 Mar 20:08] <Eluvatar> THE MEMBERS ACTUALLY ARE:
[28 Mar 20:09] <Eluvatar> Eluvatar, Gulliver, Wham, AMOM, Haxstree, Felasia, Agamemnon, Blue_Wolf, Dyr, Oliver, Todd_McCloud, MooCows, Earth, Hileville, and mcmasterdonia
[28 Mar 20:09] <Eluvatar> this also means there are 8 absent, not 5
[28 Mar 20:09] <Earth> .optout
[28 Mar 20:09] <Eluvatar> 0_o
[28 Mar 20:09] <Earth> ...oops. XD
[28 Mar 20:09] <Evil_Wolf> wut
[28 Mar 20:09] <Eluvatar> Evil_Wolf: blame FriarTuck
[28 Mar 20:09] <Eluvatar> apparently he has conditioned Earth to say .optout when her name is said in a large list of names
[28 Mar 20:10] <Earth> ^.
[28 Mar 20:10] <Eluvatar> Okay, moving on to the actual agenda of this Congress
[28 Mar 20:10] <Eluvatar> 1. A Party Manifesto with regard to the ongoing special election and the approaching Judicial election. This manifesto may include party nominees for the Delegacy, Executive Offices, and Judicial Positions, as well as pledges exacted of said nominees and positions on matters of policy.
[28 Mar 20:10] <Eluvatar> which can be restated as
[28 Mar 20:10] <Eluvatar> 1. A Party Manifesto with regard to the approaching special election and the approaching Judicial election. This manifesto may include party nominees for the Delegacy, Executive Offices, and Judicial Positions, as well as pledges exacted of said nominees and positions on matters of policy.
[28 Mar 20:11] <Eluvatar> 2. Revision of party rules including the procedure for calling Party Congresses and possible adoption of a cohesive party constitution or charter.
[28 Mar 20:11] <Eluvatar> That stated, let us take on item 1.
[28 Mar 20:12] <Eluvatar> Do we want to start with a discussion of policy or a discussion of possible nominees?
[28 Mar 20:12] <Eluvatar> Okay, I guess I'll start with nominees
[28 Mar 20:13] <Eluvatar> Assuming Evil_Wolf opens the elections at the latest possible date, Friday the 30th,
[28 Mar 20:14] <Eluvatar> the valid nominees for Speaker of the Regional Assembly are:
[28 Mar 20:14] <Evil_Wolf> I rule that Grosse sucks and we should mock him openly, all in favor?
[28 Mar 20:14] <Evil_Wolf> No, just me?
[28 Mar 20:14] * Evil_Wolf sits back down
[28 Mar 20:15] <Eluvatar> Grosseschnauzer, FALCONKATS, Felasia, Vilnoia1, Govindia, Unibot, A mean old man, Eluvatar, Dyr Nasad, Mahaj, Pasargad, Grimalkin, Haor Chall, Hileville, Atrigea, Romanoffia, Barbakiueria, flemingovia, and Jamie
[28 Mar 20:16] <Earth> I vote for Elu for everything.
[28 Mar 20:16] <Eluvatar> I don't particularly want to run for Speaker.
[28 Mar 20:16] <Eluvatar> In fact I'd rather not.
[28 Mar 20:17] <Eluvatar> I suspect AMOM does not want to run either.
[28 Mar 20:17] <Eluvatar> Is there anyone from that list who is present who is interested in running?
[28 Mar 20:17] <Eluvatar> I suspect Hileville has enough responsibilities to be going on with
[28 Mar 20:18] <Evil_Wolf> I motion that Hileville run for delegate, for the lulz.
[28 Mar 20:18] <Hileville> I would not want to run for Speaker.
[28 Mar 20:18] <Eluvatar> That's not for another month and a few days
[28 Mar 20:18] <Eluvatar> The special election btw is to serve as Speaker from, let's say, the thirteenth of April through the 17th of May
[28 Mar 20:19] <Eluvatar> Given that we don't appear to have any party members interested in the position
[28 Mar 20:19] <Eluvatar> I expect that this may come down to a choice between Grosseschnauzer and Govindia
[28 Mar 20:20] <Eluvatar> Is there a preference in the party between them?
[28 Mar 20:20] <Eluvatar> This seems to be a difficult topic.
[28 Mar 20:21] <Evil_Wolf> I prefer Abstain, or perhaps JAL.
[28 Mar 20:21] <Eluvatar> Courts!
[28 Mar 20:21] <Evil_Wolf> JAL it is
[28 Mar 20:21] <Eluvatar> Agamemnon has said he'll run for Chief Justice if no one else does.
[28 Mar 20:21] <Eluvatar> This refers to the term for April 17th - September 17th
[28 Mar 20:22] <Eluvatar> OH I should state who will be eligible for justice who is ineligible for SPeaker
[28 Mar 20:22] <Eluvatar> the list is:
[28 Mar 20:23] <Eluvatar> oh, no one <_<
[28 Mar 20:24] <Eluvatar> The current AJs are Dyr and Mahaj
[28 Mar 20:24] <Hileville> Mahaj has stated he won't run again
[28 Mar 20:24] <Eluvatar> yes
[28 Mar 20:24] <Earth> aw, 30 day rule :(
[28 Mar 20:24] <Eluvatar> and I was typing up something saying that and that Dyr doesn't appear to be around
[28 Mar 20:24] <Eluvatar> (much)
[28 Mar 20:24] <Eluvatar> He can be consulted of course.
[28 Mar 20:25] <Eluvatar> Could Jamie perhaps be a reasonable replacement for Mahaj?
[28 Mar 20:25] * Earth holds her tongue.
[28 Mar 20:25] <Eluvatar> Felasia?
[28 Mar 20:25] <Earth> I like Fel.
[28 Mar 20:25] <Eluvatar> he will be approached
[28 Mar 20:26] <Eluvatar> failing that, Unibot?
[28 Mar 20:26] <Evil_Wolf> I'd rather Fel
[28 Mar 20:26] <Eluvatar> I did force him to get somewhat acquainted with TNP law the other day
[28 Mar 20:26] <Eluvatar> well yes Fel has more experience with TNP law
[28 Mar 20:26] <Earth> TNP law is..expansive.
[28 Mar 20:27] <Eluvatar> That may be a good segue to Policy
[28 Mar 20:27] <Eluvatar> Any thoughts on the seven chapter structure I have proposed?
[28 Mar 20:27] <AMOM> 30 day rule is a joke
[28 Mar 20:27] <AMOM> It should have stayed at 15
[28 Mar 20:27] <Eluvatar> This isn't the activity rule
[28 Mar 20:27] <Eluvatar> this is the eligibility to run rule
[28 Mar 20:27] <AMOM> I was commenting
[28 Mar 20:27] <AMOM> Ah
[28 Mar 20:28] <AMOM> Pfft
[28 Mar 20:28] <AMOM> A stupid rule
[28 Mar 20:28] <AMOM> One of the many stupid rules
[28 Mar 20:28] <AMOM> TNP can't afford to freeze people out
[28 Mar 20:28] <Eluvatar> Apparently not yes
[28 Mar 20:29] <AMOM> and you're right, I'm not running for Speaker
[28 Mar 20:29] <Eluvatar> The seven chapters: Criminal Code, Penal Code, Juducial Law, Election and Appointment Procedure, Security Council Law, Government Regulations, and Cultural Declarations
[28 Mar 20:30] * Eluvatar waits for someone to propose dropping Chapter 5
[28 Mar 20:30] <Evil_Wolf> Sure.
[28 Mar 20:30] <Eluvatar> I disagree because I think some kind of organized body of high-influence nations is vitally necessary
[28 Mar 20:31] <Eluvatar> Let's have a minidebate
[28 Mar 20:31] <Eluvatar> Evil_Wolf: you have the floor
[28 Mar 20:32] <AMOM> Frankly, there are better things I could expend my effort on than an unappreciated and difficult position which receives little aid from the other areas of the government and forums
[28 Mar 20:32] <AMOM> I was in the middle of writing that when I was distracted. :|
[28 Mar 20:32] * Eluvatar nods
[28 Mar 20:32] <Eluvatar> Well the admins have been a bit better about helping the Speaker of late <_<
[28 Mar 20:32] <AMOM> There is very little incentive to participate in TNP's government because of how flawed it is
[28 Mar 20:32] <Eluvatar> But of course currently the Speaker has serious procedural issues to contend with.
[28 Mar 20:33] <Eluvatar> AMOM: please, point out a specific flaw
[28 Mar 20:33] <AMOM> I noticed Grosse suddenly became helpful when I lost the position. |:[
[28 Mar 20:33] <Eluvatar> Well as you recall he was supposed to not do adminy things while Delegate
[28 Mar 20:33] <Eluvatar> and he stopped being delegate ...
[28 Mar 20:33] <AMOM> I don't have any to rattle off off the top of my head at the moment, but the fact that so many positions rely on the actions of other positions just to function normally has been an issue
[28 Mar 20:33] <Evil_Wolf> Ahh! Don't say that word!
[28 Mar 20:34] <Evil_Wolf> "Recall" o_o
[28 Mar 20:34] <AMOM> lol.
[28 Mar 20:34] * Eluvatar laugsh
[28 Mar 20:34] <Eluvatar> *laughs
[28 Mar 20:34] <Hileville> 04[20:32] <@Eluvatar> 15But of course currently the Speaker has serious procedural issues to contend with.01 < That was because of a court ruling I didn't agree with. More reason I wouldn't touch the Speaker's position.
[28 Mar 20:34] <Eluvatar> Working on fixing that XD
[28 Mar 20:34] <AMOM> The position is a nightmare
[28 Mar 20:34] <Eluvatar> Perhaps the applicants should be dealt with by someone else?
[28 Mar 20:34] <AMOM> An admin.
[28 Mar 20:35] <AMOM> Like in TSP
[28 Mar 20:35] * Earth agrees.
[28 Mar 20:35] <AMOM> Because having to run them by two people is retarded
[28 Mar 20:35] <Eluvatar> ok that can be changed in the legal code
[28 Mar 20:35] <Eluvatar> but generally we don't like giving admins political power
[28 Mar 20:35] <AMOM> Too bad
[28 Mar 20:35] <Limi> but unlike TSP there are all kinds of methods for removal
[28 Mar 20:35] <Eluvatar> What if the Speaker were able to make a list of which admins he's ok with doing it?
[28 Mar 20:35] <Eluvatar> or something?
[28 Mar 20:35] <AMOM> No
[28 Mar 20:36] <Eluvatar> presumably the speaker would list all of them <_<
[28 Mar 20:36] <Eluvatar> Hm.
[28 Mar 20:36] <AMOM> There are some things TNP just needs to outright change entirely
[28 Mar 20:36] <Eluvatar> Go on
[28 Mar 20:36] <AMOM> I was talking about the Speaker/admin thing,
[28 Mar 20:36] <AMOM> . *
[28 Mar 20:36] <Eluvatar> okay
[28 Mar 20:37] <AMOM> I don't care what Grosse thinks, he doesn't run this region
[28 Mar 20:37] <Eluvatar> Well what if admins admit applicants but members can challenge applicants if they have reason to believe they shouldn't be masked?
[28 Mar 20:37] <AMOM> I see no issue with that
[28 Mar 20:37] <Eluvatar> OK that can be changed
[28 Mar 20:37] <Eluvatar> I should write it down on a slip of paper...
[28 Mar 20:37] <AMOM> notepad is an amazing thing
[28 Mar 20:38] <Eluvatar> done
[28 Mar 20:38] <Eluvatar> I have too many windows open >_>
[28 Mar 20:38] <Eluvatar> Anything else need to change for the Speaker
[28 Mar 20:38] <Eluvatar> Would written procedures help?
[28 Mar 20:38] <AMOM> Maybe
[28 Mar 20:38] <Eluvatar> As opposed to "figure out what the fudge your predecessors have been doing and then decide if you like it or not"
[28 Mar 20:38] <AMOM> I should have totally eliminated Prelim discussions when I was speaker
[28 Mar 20:38] <Eluvatar> "and pray to Luna nobody objects"
[28 Mar 20:38] <AMOM> and destroyed that precedent
[28 Mar 20:38] <AMOM> because it is stupid
[28 Mar 20:39] <AMOM> Just another way for shit in TNP to get tied up
[28 Mar 20:39] <Eluvatar> I have no objection to that
[28 Mar 20:39] <Eluvatar> Do we want written procedures for how a bill gets to a vote?
[28 Mar 20:39] <Eluvatar> so everyone knows how it happens?
[28 Mar 20:39] <AMOM> That would be good
[28 Mar 20:39] <AMOM> Because right now it's left up to the Speaker
[28 Mar 20:39] * Eluvatar nods
[28 Mar 20:40] <AMOM> and while people should have the ability to use their own good judgement on things, sometimes certain procedures do need to be set in stone
[28 Mar 20:40] <AMOM> like this SC nonsense
[28 Mar 20:40] <Gulliver> If can help codify the procedures
[28 Mar 20:40] <Gulliver> In a readable format if that's necessary
[28 Mar 20:40] <AMOM> and its obnoxious tendency to promote favoritism
[28 Mar 20:40] <Gulliver> That's about all I can contribute here
[28 Mar 20:40] <Eluvatar> OK
[28 Mar 20:40] <Eluvatar> wait favoritism?
[28 Mar 20:40] <Eluvatar> Let's get back to procedure in a moment because this I want to listen to
[28 Mar 20:41] <AMOM> Don't you remember my comments?
[28 Mar 20:41] <AMOM> On how the VD can choose whether or not he/she wants to remove crappy SC members?
[28 Mar 20:41] <AMOM> I think it was the SC
[28 Mar 20:42] <Eluvatar> that's passed
[28 Mar 20:42] * Eluvatar nods
[28 Mar 20:42] <AMOM> Oh, good.
[28 Mar 20:42] <AMOM> I seem to remember voting on it
[28 Mar 20:42] <Eluvatar> what we're changing SC-wise now is how the Order of Succession works
[28 Mar 20:42] <Eluvatar> instead of it being by seniority with approval of SC and RA (Which has never happened)
[28 Mar 20:42] <Eluvatar> I've proposed it being taken straight to the RA
[28 Mar 20:43] <Eluvatar> with Seniority an option but the RA able to set whatever order it likes
[28 Mar 20:43] <Eluvatar> for "shit hit fan" situations
[28 Mar 20:43] <Eluvatar> Back to procedure if no one minds
[28 Mar 20:43] <Eluvatar> So I think we're fine with just needing a Second to bring something to a vote yes?
[28 Mar 20:43] <Eluvatar> Since the you-can't-join-the-RA-while-there's-a-vote thing is going away
[28 Mar 20:44] <Eluvatar> A motion to vote and a second, with consent of the author?
[28 Mar 20:44] <Eluvatar> (who can motion or second themselves)
[28 Mar 20:44] <Gulliver> But I want to change that no one can join during a vote
[28 Mar 20:44] <Gulliver> To no one can vote in a vote ongoing when they joined
[28 Mar 20:44] <Eluvatar> Gulliver: it's being changed
[28 Mar 20:44] <Eluvatar> Yes
[28 Mar 20:44] <AMOM> Order of Succession?
[28 Mar 20:44] <Gulliver> Well you seemed to be bringing it up in discussion of how it justifies other procedures or something
[28 Mar 20:45] <Eluvatar> Gulliver: I'm bringing up the change I'm going to propose
[28 Mar 20:45] <Gulliver> I'm only half paying attention so I might have missed something
[28 Mar 20:45] <Eluvatar> as a reason why it's okay to let it be easy to bring something to a vote
[28 Mar 20:45] <Gulliver> Aha
[28 Mar 20:45] <AMOM> Oh, that.
[28 Mar 20:45] <Gulliver> Oh I missed
[28 Mar 20:45] <Gulliver> "Going away" XD
[28 Mar 20:45] <Eluvatar> That will go away.
[28 Mar 20:45] <Gulliver> Now I understand
[28 Mar 20:46] <AMOM> Ugh. It has been a while since I thought about TNP.
[28 Mar 20:46] <Eluvatar> The Order of Succession is part of my omnibus I'm proposing
[28 Mar 20:46] <Eluvatar> for before-consty-replacement
[28 Mar 20:46] <AMOM> Link me
[28 Mar 20:46] <Eluvatar> the omnibus currently is that, Limi's Executive idea, and allowing abstentions
[28 Mar 20:46] <Eluvatar> http://forum.thenorthpacific.org/single/?p=8044952&t=6896911
[28 Mar 20:46] <Eluvatar> needs a couple more edits for abstention-allowing
[28 Mar 20:47] <AMOM> Hahaha
[28 Mar 20:47] <AMOM> This law is a joke
[28 Mar 20:47] <AMOM> The old one
[28 Mar 20:47] <Eluvatar> yes
[28 Mar 20:47] <AMOM> "The order of succession shall be determined first, by length of current service on the Council, and if necessary, then by influence level, and then by endorsement level of Council members who have equal levels of service and then, of equal influence level."
[28 Mar 20:47] <AMOM> Give me a fucking break
[28 Mar 20:47] <AMOM> How about whoever is most active
[28 Mar 20:47] <Eluvatar> That was Grosse's attempt to measure who's most active
[28 Mar 20:47] <Eluvatar> as I understand it...
[28 Mar 20:48] <AMOM> Well, he failed
[28 Mar 20:48] <Evil_Wolf> That was Grosses attempt to get himself at the top of the list
[28 Mar 20:48] <Eluvatar> And/or that
[28 Mar 20:48] <Evil_Wolf> as *I* understand it :P
[28 Mar 20:48] <Eluvatar> I can see that argument Evil_Wolf
[28 Mar 20:48] <Eluvatar> and I'm perfectly in agreement with changing things so that isn't necessarily how it works.
[28 Mar 20:48] <Eluvatar> SO that's going to be changed within a couple weeks I hope.
[28 Mar 20:49] <Eluvatar> The other part of the omnibus is letting the RA fill vacant ministries
[28 Mar 20:49] <Eluvatar> also letting it recall ministers by a simple majority >.>
[28 Mar 20:50] <Eluvatar> AMOM: any other complaints about the Speaker position?
[28 Mar 20:50] <AMOM> Not at the moment
[28 Mar 20:50] <Eluvatar> ok
[28 Mar 20:50] <AMOM> I wonder if all these loopholes were deliberately worked into the Constitution
[28 Mar 20:50] <Eluvatar> No
[28 Mar 20:50] <Eluvatar> MOnte Ozarka wrote the original version of this consty trying to make it short
[28 Mar 20:51] <Eluvatar> (and simple)
[28 Mar 20:51] <Evil_Wolf> Oh MO, how I miss him
[28 Mar 20:51] <Eluvatar> some inconsistencies were created by repeated amendments over the course of the last 4 years
[28 Mar 20:51] <AMOM> Hahaha
[28 Mar 20:51] <AMOM> O, how his efforts were so perverted
[28 Mar 20:51] <Eluvatar> Well Grosse argues that that short original had many ambiguities
[28 Mar 20:52] <AMOM> Grosse needs to sit down
[28 Mar 20:52] <Eluvatar> it wasn't _all_ that short either.
[28 Mar 20:52] <Eluvatar> I can find it for you later if you like.
[28 Mar 20:52] <Eluvatar> The previous constitution was... longer.
[28 Mar 20:52] <AMOM> Grosse might be a decent delegate, but he is a horrible legislator
[28 Mar 20:52] <Eluvatar> Longer than the current one by.. a great amount.
[28 Mar 20:53] <Eluvatar> Now, moving on from the Speaker position,
[28 Mar 20:53] <Eluvatar> we've cause to discuss the Courts
[28 Mar 20:53] <Eluvatar> I think that the fact that they have never ever convicted anyone
[28 Mar 20:53] <AMOM> Three Justices = shit
[28 Mar 20:53] <AMOM> Always has
[28 Mar 20:53] <Eluvatar> is... a problem
[28 Mar 20:53] <Eluvatar> AMOM: to be fair, the process is that a criminal case is supposed to be tried by _one_ justice
[28 Mar 20:53] <AMOM> TNP's Court system is a toothless joke
[28 Mar 20:53] <AMOM> And yet they all end up tripping over each other
[28 Mar 20:53] <Eluvatar> The FALCONKATS court was... odd
[28 Mar 20:53] <AMOM> Like in the JAL case
[28 Mar 20:54] <Evil_Wolf> Hey, don't look at me, I tried to fix that :P
[28 Mar 20:54] <Hileville> You gust need to find the right Chief Justice to bring the court back to some kinda legitamacy
[28 Mar 20:54] <Eluvatar> Mayhaps
[28 Mar 20:54] <AMOM> The Court does need the right person
[28 Mar 20:54] <Eluvatar> Do I hear a volunteer? :P
[28 Mar 20:54] <AMOM> But its system right now is a mess
[28 Mar 20:54] <Gulliver> I'm not eligible
[28 Mar 20:54] <Gulliver> :|
[28 Mar 20:54] <Evil_Wolf> Most of us aren't
[28 Mar 20:55] <Eluvatar> :(
[28 Mar 20:55] <Eluvatar> Hileville is I believe
[28 Mar 20:55] <AMOM> I am
[28 Mar 20:55] <AMOM> BUT...
[28 Mar 20:55] <Evil_Wolf> Actually, that might be a bigger problem than the Courts :P
[28 Mar 20:55] <Eluvatar> yes
[28 Mar 20:55] <Eluvatar> and... I suppose
[28 Mar 20:55] <Evil_Wolf> Disenfranchisement
[28 Mar 20:55] <AMOM> This 30 day eligibility thing is a serious issu
[28 Mar 20:55] <AMOM> issue*
[28 Mar 20:55] <Eluvatar> But on the flipside isn't it understandable why someone would stick in a rule against someone coming in and running the next day?
[28 Mar 20:56] <Eluvatar> no?
[28 Mar 20:56] <Eluvatar> or are we against it entirely?
[28 Mar 20:56] <AMOM> It is
[28 Mar 20:56] <Evil_Wolf> The fact that "citizenship" isn't worth jack and has no voice in the region at all.
[28 Mar 20:56] <Earth> THe next day sure, but 30 days is a bit..
[28 Mar 20:56] <AMOM> But TNP has a lot of problems
[28 Mar 20:56] <Eluvatar> I mean I've heard that this some mean old man proposed a 15 day no-voting rule in TSP
[28 Mar 20:56] <Hileville> 30 is a lot
[28 Mar 20:56] <Eluvatar> how about a 15 day rule?
[28 Mar 20:56] <AMOM> and forcing people to sit back and masturbate for 30 days while the rest of the government putzes around isn't helping anything
[28 Mar 20:56] <Earth> 15 is ine
[28 Mar 20:56] <Earth> fine*
[28 Mar 20:56] <Eluvatar> That seems more manageable
[28 Mar 20:56] <Hileville> 15 is okay
[28 Mar 20:56] <Earth> ...AMOM, you are great.
[28 Mar 20:56] <Gulliver> 15 is fine
[28 Mar 20:56] <Evil_Wolf> How about no voting if the vote was going on when you can in :P
[28 Mar 20:56] <AMOM> I'm not bothering with tact right now
[28 Mar 20:57] <AMOM> I think everyone knows how I feel about TNP
[28 Mar 20:57] <Eluvatar> Written down.
[28 Mar 20:57] <Evil_Wolf> Also the law prohibiting accepting new RA members during a vote is equally retarded
[28 Mar 20:57] <Gulliver> That's being changed
[28 Mar 20:57] <Gulliver> Elu says
[28 Mar 20:57] <Eluvatar> Evil_Wolf: that's being changed in my revamped legal code
[28 Mar 20:57] <Eluvatar> which will hopefully be next on the RA agenda after the Omnibus
[28 Mar 20:57] <AMOM> Although in TSP ... :P
[28 Mar 20:57] <Hileville> TSP is a differnt issue
[28 Mar 20:57] <Evil_Wolf> In TSP, you eat bear!
[28 Mar 20:57] <Eluvatar> brb 2min
[28 Mar 20:58] <AMOM> But the same thing could hypothetically happen anywhere.
[28 Mar 20:58] <Hileville> It could
[28 Mar 20:58] <AMOM> So perhaps there should be a rule that citizens cannot vote on something that was taking place when their application was accepted.
[28 Mar 20:58] <Hileville> ^^^
[28 Mar 20:58] <AMOM> If this was the case, we'd want all the admins in charge of citizenship
[28 Mar 20:59] <AMOM> because if it was just one, he/she could pick and choose who gets to vote on what
[28 Mar 20:59] <Eluvatar> bk
[28 Mar 20:59] <Eluvatar> well
[28 Mar 20:59] <Eluvatar> if any admin can mask a citizen
[28 Mar 20:59] <Eluvatar> then that solves that
[28 Mar 20:59] <Eluvatar> don't add in a requirement for 2/3 admins to agree or something
[28 Mar 20:59] <Eluvatar> please
[28 Mar 20:59] <Evil_Wolf> That would be retarded
[28 Mar 21:00] <Eluvatar> mh
[28 Mar 21:00] <Evil_Wolf> All in favor? :P
[28 Mar 21:00] <Eluvatar> Evil_Wolf: I'd like to make one big resolution at the end
[28 Mar 21:00] <Eluvatar> so we don't waste a great deal of time voting
[28 Mar 21:01] <Eluvatar> a Manifesto, even.
[28 Mar 21:01] <Evil_Wolf> I was joking XP
[28 Mar 21:01] <Eluvatar> ah ok
[28 Mar 21:01] <Eluvatar> so for Courts we're prepared to try pretty much the current system looking for better justices?
[28 Mar 21:02] <Hileville> I think that would work okay
[28 Mar 21:02] <Eluvatar> Hileville: what do you say to my hint about you being eligible :$
[28 Mar 21:02] <Eluvatar> You have too many responsibilities?
[28 Mar 21:03] <Hileville> What is the term
[28 Mar 21:03] <Eluvatar> 6 months :$
[28 Mar 21:03] <Hileville> Starting the middle of April?
[28 Mar 21:03] <Eluvatar> yep
[28 Mar 21:03] <Eluvatar> That note
[28 Mar 21:03] <Eluvatar> *noted
[28 Mar 21:03] <Eluvatar> hardly any Court official has ever actually served out their term
[28 Mar 21:03] <Eluvatar> when there was stuff >_<
[28 Mar 21:04] <Eluvatar> The judicial terms should probably be shortened >_>
[28 Mar 21:04] <Hileville> I guess I can run. I don't plan on running for a second term as Lawspeaker in Balder so that ends in May.
[28 Mar 21:04] <Earth> that's longg.
[28 Mar 21:04] <Eluvatar> YEs
[28 Mar 21:04] <Eluvatar> Okay, for CJ or AJ?
[28 Mar 21:04] --> Agamemnon joined the channel
[28 Mar 21:04] --- ChanServ changed mode: +v Agamemnon
[28 Mar 21:04] <Eluvatar> hi Agamemnon
[28 Mar 21:04] <Agamemnon> hi
[28 Mar 21:04] <Eluvatar> we're just talking about replacing you :P
[28 Mar 21:04] <Eluvatar> well you said you didn't want to be CJ I think actually <_<
[28 Mar 21:04] <Agamemnon> heh
[28 Mar 21:05] <Agamemnon> Should I leave then?
[28 Mar 21:05] <Earth> Aga!
[28 Mar 21:05] <Earth> no, stay!
[28 Mar 21:05] * Earth hugs her hubby!
[28 Mar 21:05] <AMOM> Scrap all of this, let's establish the Farceocracy.
[28 Mar 21:05] <Hileville> I would run for whatever is needed
[28 Mar 21:05] * Agamemnon hugs
[28 Mar 21:05] <Eluvatar> Agamemnon: could you please run for AJ?
[28 Mar 21:05] <Agamemnon> I don't care. If no one else wants CJ, I'll do it again.
[28 Mar 21:05] <Agamemnon> Whatever.
[28 Mar 21:05] <Eluvatar> no pleaes do stay all sorts of things being discussed
[28 Mar 21:05] <Eluvatar> Good man
[28 Mar 21:05] <AMOM> No citizen shall be admitted without 2/3 approval from all admins after being recommended to these admins by the Speaker after the Speaker runs the request by two of the three Court Justices, including the Chief Justice.
[28 Mar 21:06] <Eluvatar> Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
[28 Mar 21:06] <Hileville> NO
[28 Mar 21:06] <Evil_Wolf> Heh
[28 Mar 21:06] <Earth> AMOM, what if an admin is absent..
[28 Mar 21:06] <Earth> oh
[28 Mar 21:06] <Earth> kidding
[28 Mar 21:06] <Earth> thank god
[28 Mar 21:06] <Eluvatar> xD
[28 Mar 21:06] <Earth> that was a bit terrifying for a second.
[28 Mar 21:06] <Evil_Wolf> Also, all three Admins must vote :P
[28 Mar 21:06] <AMOM> If the Chief Justice is not present, a special election shall be held to determine who shall stand in for the Speaker. If two admins are not present, the flag must be replaced with a picture of Rick Astley.
[28 Mar 21:07] <Eluvatar> I recall your joke xD
[28 Mar 21:07] <Evil_Wolf> I can do that now :P
[28 Mar 21:07] <Eluvatar> ILLEGAL
[28 Mar 21:07] <Evil_Wolf> AHH!
[28 Mar 21:07] <Eluvatar> :P
[28 Mar 21:07] * Evil_Wolf covers his ears
[28 Mar 21:07] <Eluvatar> I should sue Grosse for flying the schnauzer flag >.>
[28 Mar 21:07] <Eluvatar> <.<
[28 Mar 21:07] <Evil_Wolf> DO IT!
[28 Mar 21:07] <Evil_Wolf> I should fly the LWU flag then watch him bitch
[28 Mar 21:07] <Eluvatar> He only flew it for like 2 days, to be fair
Click to expand...
 
#ncpp:
[28 Mar 21:08] <Eluvatar> Continuing.
[28 Mar 21:08] <Eluvatar> Evil_Wolf: you wished to challenge Chapter 5: Security Council?
[28 Mar 21:08] <Evil_Wolf> YUS!
[28 Mar 21:08] <Evil_Wolf> It sucks :P
[28 Mar 21:08] <Eluvatar> Care to explain why you think it sucks?
[28 Mar 21:09] <Evil_Wolf> And dats alls I gots to says abouts Veit-nams.
[28 Mar 21:09] <Eluvatar> I believe as a Progressive that we should examine a policy based on its pluses and minuses and select the alternative with the best net result.
[28 Mar 21:10] <Evil_Wolf> Well, besides the fact that it gives a select few absolute power based only on the fact they have been in the region for a long while?
[28 Mar 21:10] <Eluvatar> It seems to me that the benefit of having a wall against, ah, shall we say, Feudal Lords
[28 Mar 21:10] * Eluvatar facepalms
[28 Mar 21:10] <Eluvatar> Name one power of the Security Council
[28 Mar 21:10] <Evil_Wolf> Endotard really close to the delegate :P
[28 Mar 21:11] <Evil_Wolf> Reject entry of qualifying members into the SC
[28 Mar 21:11] <Eluvatar> Yeah..
[28 Mar 21:11] <Eluvatar> You believe Romanoffia should be in the SC?
[28 Mar 21:11] <Eluvatar> Note the RA can override that
[28 Mar 21:11] <Evil_Wolf> I believe the SC should be more open, or not exist.
[28 Mar 21:11] <Eluvatar> <_<
[28 Mar 21:12] <Eluvatar> okay, so what should be opened up
[28 Mar 21:12] <Evil_Wolf> I believe membership in the SC should go beyond "has a lot of influence"
[28 Mar 21:12] <Eluvatar> the Influence requirement?
[28 Mar 21:12] <Evil_Wolf> I'm that high speed :P
[28 Mar 21:12] <Eluvatar> An uninfluential SC member isn't very useful at its primary mission
[28 Mar 21:12] <Eluvatar> --- enforcing recall of delegate
[28 Mar 21:12] <AMOM> lol
[28 Mar 21:12] <AMOM> Endotard
[28 Mar 21:12] <Evil_Wolf> Who was our last rouge delegate taken out by?
[28 Mar 21:12] <Evil_Wolf> And what influence level did that individual have? :P
[28 Mar 21:12] <AMOM> ^
[28 Mar 21:13] <Eluvatar> Elected Vice-Del apparently
[28 Mar 21:13] <AMOM> poop
[28 Mar 21:13] <AMOM> I don't think Roman should be in the SC
[28 Mar 21:13] <Eluvatar> I'm not sure if the SC existed then though
[28 Mar 21:13] <AMOM> But I don't think it should be their private little club either
[28 Mar 21:13] <Eluvatar> in practice
[28 Mar 21:13] <AMOM> Uh
[28 Mar 21:13] <AMOM> It did
[28 Mar 21:13] <AMOM> Didn't it?
[28 Mar 21:13] <Evil_Wolf> SC did exist then, I ignored it outright :P
[28 Mar 21:13] <Eluvatar> Legally yes
[28 Mar 21:13] <AMOM> This wasn't THAT long ago
[28 Mar 21:13] <Eluvatar> but I think it might have been empty
[28 Mar 21:14] <Evil_Wolf> I do recall people asking for membership in it...
[28 Mar 21:14] <AMOM> The SC is designed so that the current members can blackball anyone they don't like who wants to join it
[28 Mar 21:14] <Eluvatar> but the RA is explicitly empowerd to override them if its' abused
[28 Mar 21:14] <Evil_Wolf> Basically, and the requirements are neigh impossible to meet
[28 Mar 21:14] <Eluvatar> nigh impossible?
[28 Mar 21:14] <Eluvatar> We had 5 members until BS resigned
[28 Mar 21:14] <Evil_Wolf> I've been in TNP since 2005, I can't join >_>
[28 Mar 21:14] <AMOM> No, neigh
[28 Mar 21:15] <AMOM> http://www.horsebreedsinfo.com/images/brown_horse.jpg
[28 Mar 21:15] <Eluvatar> But your WA is hardly ever in TNP lol
[28 Mar 21:15] <Evil_Wolf> I still have enough influence to ban half of the region :P
[28 Mar 21:15] <Eluvatar> by nation count I suppose so
[28 Mar 21:15] <Eluvatar> probably most.
[28 Mar 21:15] <AMOM> Alright, Durk
[28 Mar 21:15] <AMOM> :P
[28 Mar 21:16] <Evil_Wolf> Point proven, and Durk hardly had any influence at all
[28 Mar 21:16] <Eluvatar> Do you want to relax influence requiremetns (which only became possible recently)
[28 Mar 21:16] <Evil_Wolf> We don't need people with large amounts of influence, we need trusted and active members.
[28 Mar 21:16] <Eluvatar> or get rid of them altogether?
[28 Mar 21:16] <Eluvatar> We need both I would say.
[28 Mar 21:16] <Evil_Wolf> People who are really good at endoswapping.
[28 Mar 21:17] <AMOM> The SC right now is a lump
[28 Mar 21:17] <Eluvatar> The influential people tend to be that.
[28 Mar 21:17] <Eluvatar> a lump?
[28 Mar 21:17] * Eluvatar confused
[28 Mar 21:17] <Evil_Wolf> Like cancer? :P
[28 Mar 21:17] <AMOM> The influential people also tend to be good at sitting around :P
[28 Mar 21:17] <Eluvatar> D:
[28 Mar 21:17] <AMOM> No, like filter-feeding sponges
[28 Mar 21:17] <AMOM> Which is redundant; all sponges filter-feed
[28 Mar 21:17] <Evil_Wolf> Like Grosse? XP
[28 Mar 21:18] <AMOM> Grosse does a lot more than most of them
[28 Mar 21:18] <AMOM> Grosse and Pasargad seem to be the only members of the SC who are worth anything
[28 Mar 21:18] <Eluvatar> D:
[28 Mar 21:18] <Agamemnon> Meh Pasargad
[28 Mar 21:19] <Eluvatar> 21:16 <@Eluvatar> Do you want to relax influence requiremetns (which only became possible recently)
[28 Mar 21:19] <Eluvatar> 21:16 <@Eluvatar> or get rid of them altogether?
[28 Mar 21:19] <AMOM> Pasargad only because he held the delegacy while EW was sleeping
[28 Mar 21:19] <Evil_Wolf> That coma was *intense*
[28 Mar 21:20] <Eluvatar> I"ll be back in 10 minutes or so
[28 Mar 21:21] <Eluvatar> if Evil_Wolf could expound on his thoughts on that that'd be helpful
[28 Mar 21:21] --- Eluvatar changed mode: +o AMOM
[28 Mar 21:21] <Evil_Wolf> By the way, we can hear you, and no, don't talk to us, the last thing people in comas want to hear is the sobs of loved ones, put on some heavy metal or something, mix it up.
[28 Mar 21:21] <Eluvatar> deputy chair
[28 Mar 21:21] * AMOM bans everyone
[28 Mar 21:21] * Evil_Wolf spins in the chair
[28 Mar 21:21] <Evil_Wolf> Weeeeee!
[28 Mar 21:21] <AMOM> Wait, were you in a coma?
[28 Mar 21:22] <Evil_Wolf> Huh?
[28 Mar 21:23] <Evil_Wolf> Anyway, I've found the most useless page ever!
[28 Mar 21:23] <Evil_Wolf> http://forum.thenorthpacific.org/pages/laws/
[28 Mar 21:23] <AMOM> lolol
[28 Mar 21:25] <Evil_Wolf> 3. Assembly members may apply to join the Council if they meet the minimum Influence and endorsement levels prescribed by law. Other trusted members of The North Pacific who meet the minimum influence and endorsement levels prescribed by law may also apply to join the Council if the Regional Assembly grants an exemption to the Regional Assembly membership
[28 Mar 21:25] <Evil_Wolf> requirement by a two-thirds supermajority vote.
[28 Mar 21:25] <Evil_Wolf> What is it with TNP and 2/3 super-majority votes?
[28 Mar 21:26] <Hileville> Thought it sounded good when it was written so they just kept it
[28 Mar 21:26] <AMOM> of members present?
[28 Mar 21:26] <Evil_Wolf> No idea
[28 Mar 21:26] <Evil_Wolf> Also, someone please explain to me what this means
[28 Mar 21:26] <Evil_Wolf> "6. The Assembly may terminate an exemption of a particular Council member from Regional Assembly membership for a stated reason by a two-thirds supermajority vote."
[28 Mar 21:27] <Evil_Wolf> Terminate an exemption...wut...
[28 Mar 21:27] <Hileville> It is something about terminating an exemption with a 2/3 super-majority vote.
[28 Mar 21:28] <Evil_Wolf> Thanks, that was helpful :P
[28 Mar 21:28] <Agamemnon> A provision for terminating the exemption granted in Subsection 3 that was quoted above.
[28 Mar 21:29] <AMOM> It's one of the Farceocratic rules
[28 Mar 21:29] <AMOM> I've been working on Farceocracy
[28 Mar 21:29] <AMOM> I should design a Farceocratic Constitution
[28 Mar 21:29] <Evil_Wolf> So...if the RA votes 2/3 yes, a member can become a SC member, but if the SC votes 2/3 no, that member is rejected and there is nothing the RA can do about it...
[28 Mar 21:29] <Evil_Wolf> That seems fair.
[28 Mar 21:30] <Evil_Wolf> and since there are way more members of the RA than the SC, its totally balanced
[28 Mar 21:31] <Evil_Wolf> Section 2: Powers - 1. The Council shall enforce any approved motion of the Assembly to recall the Delegate.
[28 Mar 21:31] <Evil_Wolf> lulz fail.
[28 Mar 21:33] <Eluvatar> censored
[28 Mar 21:34] <Eluvatar> what
[28 Mar 21:34] <Eluvatar> fuck
[28 Mar 21:34] <Earth> O.o
[28 Mar 21:34] <Evil_Wolf> Heh
[28 Mar 21:34] <Eluvatar> welp, time to change *that* password
[28 Mar 21:34] <Evil_Wolf> HEH
[28 Mar 21:34] <Eluvatar> thankfully none of you have the opportunity to access my screensaver program <_<
[28 Mar 21:34] <Eluvatar> but nevertheless
[28 Mar 21:34] <Eluvatar> Motion to censor that from the record, anyway
[28 Mar 21:34] <Earth> Seconded.
[28 Mar 21:35] --- Eluvatar changed mode: -o AMOM
[28 Mar 21:35] <Eluvatar> All in favor say aye
[28 Mar 21:35] <Eluvatar> AYE
[28 Mar 21:35] <Earth> AYE
[28 Mar 21:35] <Evil_Wolf> ...
[28 Mar 21:35] <Agamemnon> aye
[28 Mar 21:35] <Evil_Wolf> Aye :P
[28 Mar 21:35] <Eluvatar> (4:0:0:4:7)
[28 Mar 21:35] <Eluvatar> oh wait Gulliver left
[28 Mar 21:35] <Eluvatar> then it's 4 aye 3 present, passes
[28 Mar 21:35] <Eluvatar> MOVING ON
[28 Mar 21:36] <Evil_Wolf> Lets just make a general rule that if you accidentally post your password, it doesn't get recorded :P
[28 Mar 21:36] --> Todd_McCloud joined the channel
[28 Mar 21:36] --- ChanServ changed mode: +v Todd_McCloud
[28 Mar 21:36] <Eluvatar> no objection
[28 Mar 21:36] <Eluvatar> seconded
[28 Mar 21:36] <Eluvatar> 21:36 <+Evil_Wolf> Lets just make a general rule that if you accidentally post your password, it doesn't get recorded :P
[28 Mar 21:36] <Eluvatar> AYE
[28 Mar 21:36] <Eluvatar> (1:0:0:7:7)
[28 Mar 21:36] <Evil_Wolf> Aye
[28 Mar 21:36] <Hileville> Aye
[28 Mar 21:36] <Eluvatar> (3:0:0:5:7)
[28 Mar 21:36] <Agamemnon> We have to vote on that, too? Really? Aye.
[28 Mar 21:36] <Eluvatar> (4:0:0:4:7)
[28 Mar 21:37] <Eluvatar> one more :$
[28 Mar 21:37] <Agamemnon> Earth
[28 Mar 21:37] <Evil_Wolf> Vote nay! Dooooo eeeeiiit :P
[28 Mar 21:37] <Earth> Aga?
[28 Mar 21:37] <Earth> Aye
[28 Mar 21:38] <Eluvatar> motion carries
[28 Mar 21:39] <Eluvatar> 21:29 <+Evil_Wolf> So...if the RA votes 2/3 yes, a member can become a SC member, but if the SC votes 2/3 no, that member is rejected and there is nothing the RA can do about it...
[28 Mar 21:39] <Eluvatar> no
[28 Mar 21:39] <Eluvatar> the RA can change its mind about letting someone who isn't an RA member be in the SC with another 2/3 majority vote
[28 Mar 21:39] <Eluvatar> is what the stuff you quoted said
[28 Mar 21:39] <Evil_Wolf> That's...retarded.
[28 Mar 21:39] <Eluvatar> 2/3 of the RA can do whatever it wants to the SC
[28 Mar 21:39] <Eluvatar> What would you suggest?
[28 Mar 21:39] <Evil_Wolf> Besides not having the SC? :P
[28 Mar 21:40] <Eluvatar> The SC was relevant in the Shoeless Joe coup :
[28 Mar 21:40] <Evil_Wolf> Making the law which declares the RA can add members and the law that says they can remove them into one law.
[28 Mar 21:40] <Eluvatar> it's all in the constitution which is one law 0_o
[28 Mar 21:41] <Evil_Wolf> How was it relevant? He quit the game after, like, one day as delegate :P
[28 Mar 21:41] <Evil_Wolf> Well its not a very clear law, then is it? XP
[28 Mar 21:42] <Eluvatar> OK motion to add repealing the SC to the manifesto
[28 Mar 21:42] <Eluvatar> is there a second on putting that to a vote?
[28 Mar 21:42] <Evil_Wolf> Second
[28 Mar 21:43] <Eluvatar> Vote Aye to adding the plank "repeal the SC, do not replace", vote Nay to not add it
[28 Mar 21:43] <Eluvatar> I vote nay
[28 Mar 21:43] <Eluvatar> (0:0:1:7:7)
[28 Mar 21:43] <Eluvatar> er
[28 Mar 21:43] <Evil_Wolf> Aye :P
[28 Mar 21:43] <Eluvatar> (1:1:0:6:7)
[28 Mar 21:43] <Eluvatar> my bad with the first count >_>
[28 Mar 21:43] <Hileville> Nay
[28 Mar 21:43] <Eluvatar> (1:2:0:5:7)
[28 Mar 21:44] <Eluvatar> The question is, does the organization serve a purpose?
[28 Mar 21:44] <Earth> abstain
[28 Mar 21:44] <Eluvatar> Which use of use
[28 Mar 21:44] <Eluvatar> (1:2:1:4:7)
[28 Mar 21:45] <Eluvatar> er what
[28 Mar 21:45] <Eluvatar> 21:44 <@Eluvatar> Which use of use
[28 Mar 21:45] <Eluvatar> not sure what that was about
[28 Mar 21:45] <Agamemnon> Aye
[28 Mar 21:46] <Eluvatar> 0_o
[28 Mar 21:46] <Eluvatar> (2:2:1:3:7)
[28 Mar 21:46] <Eluvatar> You believe the organization does not serve a purpose?
[28 Mar 21:47] <Agamemnon> I really have no idea what we're voting on, I just wanted to tie it up
[28 Mar 21:47] <Eluvatar> Oh
[28 Mar 21:47] <Eluvatar> Evil_Wolf wants to get rid of the SC and not replace it
[28 Mar 21:47] <Eluvatar> that's what the Aye option is; adding that to the Manifesto
[28 Mar 21:47] <Evil_Wolf> Well, that last bit is deceptive
[28 Mar 21:47] <Eluvatar> fine
[28 Mar 21:47] <Eluvatar> get rid of it
Click to expand...
 
#ncpp:
[28 Mar 21:47] <Eluvatar> What would you want to replace it with Evil_Wolf ?
[28 Mar 21:48] <Evil_Wolf> A fucking military :P
[28 Mar 21:48] <Eluvatar> That's not a replacement that's something with nothing in common
[28 Mar 21:48] <Evil_Wolf> It is when the military protects the region
[28 Mar 21:48] <Eluvatar> I don't think you could get more than 1 SC member involved in a military, really
[28 Mar 21:49] <Eluvatar> (a mobile one anywho)
[28 Mar 21:49] <Evil_Wolf> Because they're terrible, I know.
[28 Mar 21:49] <Eluvatar> and I don't think the people who like military people generally want to do what the SC does
[28 Mar 21:49] <Evil_Wolf> Then a National Guard.
[28 Mar 21:49] <Todd_McCloud> Aye
[28 Mar 21:49] <Evil_Wolf> which is the same as a Military but in the region only
[28 Mar 21:49] <Eluvatar> That's not what's usually understood by military
[28 Mar 21:49] <Todd_McCloud> ((that's for gettin rid of the SC right?))
[28 Mar 21:49] <Eluvatar> :|
[28 Mar 21:49] <Eluvatar> Yes....
[28 Mar 21:49] <Todd_McCloud> I think it needs reformed
[28 Mar 21:50] <Eluvatar> Reform != repeal
[28 Mar 21:50] <Eluvatar> this is for simply getting rid of it
[28 Mar 21:50] <Evil_Wolf> Not my fault people have preconceived notions of what a military is and should do, Elu :P
[28 Mar 21:50] <Todd_McCloud> well but I'd do it so it wasn't its own body
[28 Mar 21:50] <Eluvatar> What do you mean
[28 Mar 21:50] <Eluvatar> ?
[28 Mar 21:50] <Evil_Wolf> To whom?
[28 Mar 21:50] <Eluvatar> Todd_McCloud:
[28 Mar 21:50] <Todd_McCloud> they're just allowed to go over the cap and be there in case they're needed. No government body, no government control, etc.
[28 Mar 21:50] <Todd_McCloud> And only 3 of them
[28 Mar 21:51] <Evil_Wolf> Four, I think
[28 Mar 21:51] <Eluvatar> The SC doesn't have government control
[28 Mar 21:51] <Todd_McCloud> Four is fine but really you all have multiple high influence people there.
[28 Mar 21:52] <Eluvatar> it doesn't even set the endocap because Evil_Wolf pocket-vetoed that bill
[28 Mar 21:52] <Todd_McCloud> oh you
[28 Mar 21:52] <Evil_Wolf> Aren't I a bastard? :P
[28 Mar 21:52] <Todd_McCloud> endocaps man
[28 Mar 21:52] <Todd_McCloud> need them
[28 Mar 21:52] <Evil_Wolf> I can set my own, thank you :P
[28 Mar 21:52] <Eluvatar> That's not a legal cap..
[28 Mar 21:52] <Evil_Wolf> Actually, there is a legal endocap
[28 Mar 21:53] <Evil_Wolf> Its in the Constitution
[28 Mar 21:53] <Todd_McCloud> What about this? http://theeastpacific.com/index.php?showtopic=6486
[28 Mar 21:54] <Eluvatar> The vice del's endos yes
[28 Mar 21:54] <Evil_Wolf> I like the part where it says "the *Delegate* may"
[28 Mar 21:54] <Todd_McCloud> delegate can raise it. To lower you need the legislature
[28 Mar 21:54] <Todd_McCloud> fair compromise
[28 Mar 21:55] <Evil_Wolf> Did that vote pass yet? :P
[28 Mar 21:55] <Todd_McCloud> yeah it's been a law since 09
[28 Mar 21:56] <Evil_Wolf> No, not that one, the one we're voting on
[28 Mar 21:56] <Todd_McCloud> oh
[28 Mar 21:56] <Todd_McCloud> unno
[28 Mar 21:57] * Evil_Wolf yawns
[28 Mar 21:58] <Eluvatar> We were talking about the SC's lack of government control
[28 Mar 21:59] <Eluvatar> assuming my omnibus bill passes it won't be involvedin order-of-succession-beyond-the-vicedel either
[28 Mar 21:59] * Todd_McCloud doesn't think he's a bona-fide RA member yet
[28 Mar 22:00] <Eluvatar> the 29th Todd_McCloud
[28 Mar 22:00] <Evil_Wolf> I think everyone else has lost interest :P
[28 Mar 22:00] <Eluvatar> Manifesto: Repeal the SC is still at vote in this congress
[28 Mar 22:01] <Eluvatar> stands at Evil_Wolf Agamemnon and Todd_McCloud for repeal,
[28 Mar 22:01] <Eluvatar> Eluvatar and Hileville against,
[28 Mar 22:01] <Eluvatar> Earth abstaining,
[28 Mar 22:01] <Eluvatar> and AMOM, Wham, and MooCows present
[28 Mar 22:02] <AMOM> Ach
[28 Mar 22:02] <AMOM> What is being voted on now
[28 Mar 22:02] <AMOM> I've not been watching for a while
[28 Mar 22:02] <Eluvatar> Evil_Wolf wants the plank "repeal the Security Council"
[28 Mar 22:02] <Eluvatar> I'm not sure how strongly for Agamemnon is
[28 Mar 22:02] <Eluvatar> Todd_McCloud seems to be under the misapprehension that the SC is a legal "COre" of some kind
[28 Mar 22:03] <Evil_Wolf> Quit justifying why you think people "accidentally" voted for :P
[28 Mar 22:03] --> Anus-Sanus joined the channel
[28 Mar 22:03] * Evil_Wolf attacks AS
[28 Mar 22:03] --- Eluvatar changed mode: +v Anus-Sanus
[28 Mar 22:03] <Eluvatar> now also "Present"
[28 Mar 22:04] <Eluvatar> Anus-Sanus: voting on adding "repeal the SC" to the manifesto
[28 Mar 22:04] <Evil_Wolf> Oh, nevermind then :P
[28 Mar 22:04] <Eluvatar> 3 aye 2 nay 1 abstain 4 present
[28 Mar 22:04] <Eluvatar> Evil_Wolf: Agamemnon actually said though,
[28 Mar 22:04] <Eluvatar> 21:47 <+Agamemnon> I really have no idea what we're voting on, I just wanted to tie it up
[28 Mar 22:04] <Anus-Sanus> oh i forgot about this
[28 Mar 22:05] <Anus-Sanus> Anur isn't here right now
[28 Mar 22:05] <Evil_Wolf> That's Aggy speak for "Aye", Elu :P
[28 Mar 22:06] <Eluvatar> ?
[28 Mar 22:06] <Eluvatar> Todd_McCloud: are you still here
[28 Mar 22:06] <Eluvatar> You haven't responded to my explanation that the SC does not have governmental powers
[28 Mar 22:07] <Hileville> I think he got pulled into TSP to make a few comments.
[28 Mar 22:09] <AMOM> Heh
[28 Mar 22:09] <AMOM> Anus-Sanus
[28 Mar 22:09] <AMOM> I invented that while drunk
[28 Mar 22:09] <Evil_Wolf> Heh
[28 Mar 22:09] <Haxburger> Oh.....it was you!
[28 Mar 22:09] <Evil_Wolf> He thought it was Biyah
[28 Mar 22:09] <Haxburger> I thought it was Biyah
[28 Mar 22:09] <Evil_Wolf> Jinx
[28 Mar 22:09] <Haxburger> oooooooohhhhhhhhhhhh
[28 Mar 22:09] * Haxburger hugs mom
[28 Mar 22:10] <AMOM> That's weird
[28 Mar 22:10] <Evil_Wolf> lolwut
[28 Mar 22:10] <AMOM> Maybe Biyah and I both generated it separately
[28 Mar 22:10] <Haxburger> no no
[28 Mar 22:10] <Haxburger> I remember now
[28 Mar 22:10] <AMOM> Because I remember being drunk, looking at "Anur-Sanur,"
[28 Mar 22:10] <Eluvatar> <_<
[28 Mar 22:10] <Haxburger> Biyah didn't react when I changed it trying to please him
[28 Mar 22:10] <AMOM> and just typing in #the_south_pacific "Anus-Sanus"
[28 Mar 22:10] <Haxburger> it was you
[28 Mar 22:10] <Eluvatar> OFF TOPIC
[28 Mar 22:10] <AMOM> lol
[28 Mar 22:10] <Eluvatar> I don't think we're getting somewhere here
[28 Mar 22:10] <Haxburger> somewhere
[28 Mar 22:11] <Haxburger> over the rainbow
[28 Mar 22:11] <Haxburger> la la laaaa
[28 Mar 22:11] <Evil_Wolf> This vote has died, long live the vote!
[28 Mar 22:11] <Haxburger> long live the pope and his wonderful hat
[28 Mar 22:11] <Evil_Wolf> The one the Mexican's gave him?
[28 Mar 22:11] <Haxburger> lol no
[28 Mar 22:12] <Haxburger> the pope hat
[28 Mar 22:12] <Earth> I change vote to Aye, I think
[28 Mar 22:12] <Earth> Oh, nevermind.
[28 Mar 22:12] <Evil_Wolf> http://cdn.slacktory.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/sombrero-pope-1a.jpeg
[28 Mar 22:12] <Earth> I vote Nay.
[28 Mar 22:12] <Eluvatar> 0_p
[28 Mar 22:12] <Haxburger> I know a sombreero
[28 Mar 22:12] <Eluvatar> The votes stand at 3 aye, 3 nay, 4 present
[28 Mar 22:12] <Haxburger> hmmmmm
[28 Mar 22:12] <Haxburger> Did Hileville vote?
[28 Mar 22:13] <Eluvatar> Yes, nay
[28 Mar 22:13] <Hileville> I voted Nay
[28 Mar 22:13] <Agamemnon> I change my vote to Nay, let's just get this over with.
[28 Mar 22:13] <Haxburger> What did you vote Elu?
[28 Mar 22:13] <Eluvatar> 2 aye, 4 nay, 4 presnet
[28 Mar 22:13] <Eluvatar> *present
[28 Mar 22:13] <Eluvatar> I voted nay...
[28 Mar 22:13] <Haxburger> Okay
[28 Mar 22:13] <Haxburger> I vote Nay
[28 Mar 22:13] <Eluvatar> 0_o
[28 Mar 22:13] <Eluvatar> WHAT IS THIS D:
[28 Mar 22:13] <Haxburger> Two smart cookies are enough for me
[28 Mar 22:13] <Earth> I started a trend!
[28 Mar 22:13] <Haxburger> I like cookies
[28 Mar 22:13] <Eluvatar> 2 aye, 5 nay, 4 present
[28 Mar 22:13] <Eluvatar> er, 3 present
[28 Mar 22:13] <Eluvatar> yes <_<
[28 Mar 22:13] <AMOM> abstain...
[28 Mar 22:13] <Eluvatar> I can't count
[28 Mar 22:14] <Eluvatar> 2 aye, 5 nay, 1 abstain, 2 present
[28 Mar 22:14] <Evil_Wolf> Numbers are hard
[28 Mar 22:14] <Eluvatar> Motion failes.
[28 Mar 22:14] <Eluvatar> *fails
[28 Mar 22:14] <Eluvatar> Spelling too D:
[28 Mar 22:14] <Haxburger> lol
[28 Mar 22:14] <Eluvatar> Now, that leaves REFORM
[28 Mar 22:14] <AMOM> wasn't paying enough attention to be able to vote on that one
[28 Mar 22:14] <Haxburger> oooh yay
[28 Mar 22:14] <Eluvatar> REFORM already on the planned manifesto:
[28 Mar 22:14] <Haxburger> REFORM!
[28 Mar 22:14] <Eluvatar> > RA decides order of succession within the SC
[28 Mar 22:14] * Haxburger reforms Evil Wolf's face
[28 Mar 22:14] <Eluvatar> Possible additional reforms:
[28 Mar 22:14] <Evil_Wolf> Why do we have to pick from the SC? :P
[28 Mar 22:15] <Eluvatar> Because they're people expected to be in the region with lots of endos
[28 Mar 22:15] <Eluvatar> > Loosen eligibility requirements
[28 Mar 22:15] <Evil_Wolf> Which most SC members don't actually have and don't need :P
[28 Mar 22:15] <Evil_Wolf> 100 endorsements is nothing
[28 Mar 22:15] <Eluvatar> > change the majorities needed in RA votes to force admission / removal / give RA membership exemption
[28 Mar 22:15] <Earth> 100 endorsements..rawr
[28 Mar 22:15] * Earth whaps EW.
[28 Mar 22:16] <Haxburger> wat
[28 Mar 22:16] <Haxburger> what's rawr got to do with this?
[28 Mar 22:16] <Evil_Wolf> She has less than 100 endorsements and is delegate of a sinker, Hax
[28 Mar 22:16] <Evil_Wolf> Because TNP can eat Sinkers for lunch :P
[28 Mar 22:17] <Haxburger> oh I see
[28 Mar 22:17] <Evil_Wolf> AND IT WOULD BE A LIGHT LUNCH TOO o_o
[28 Mar 22:17] <Haxburger> now I have what's love got to do with it in my head though
[28 Mar 22:17] <Eluvatar> snerk
[28 Mar 22:18] <Eluvatar> Evil_Wolf: a one hundred endo delegate pretty much can't be invaded
[28 Mar 22:18] <Eluvatar> so no it's not nothing
[28 Mar 22:18] <Eluvatar> also with a set order of succession perhaps the SC members higher up in it would make sure they were closer behind the Vice Del
[28 Mar 22:18] <Haxburger> excuse me
[28 Mar 22:18] <Haxburger> I thought we were going to nuke the hold constitution
[28 Mar 22:19] <Evil_Wolf> *whole :P
[28 Mar 22:19] <Eluvatar> Haxburger: yes that is the plan
[28 Mar 22:19] <Haxburger> when did we abandon that to get into the provisions of the SC
[28 Mar 22:19] <Eluvatar> but should the new consty have an SC?
[28 Mar 22:19] <Haxburger> are we writing a new one?
[28 Mar 22:19] <Eluvatar> I have drafted one
[28 Mar 22:19] <Haxburger> oooooh
[28 Mar 22:19] <Eluvatar> there are alot of changes that may be made
[28 Mar 22:19] <Haxburger> good on you
[28 Mar 22:19] <Evil_Wolf> But it seems the SC stays
[28 Mar 22:19] <Evil_Wolf> For some strange reason
[28 Mar 22:19] <Eluvatar> My plan for the end of the congress is to try to get a list of things we want in it
[28 Mar 22:20] <Eluvatar> The reason being that people agree it serves a purpose?
[28 Mar 22:20] <Evil_Wolf> Which is?
[28 Mar 22:20] <Eluvatar> Security...
[28 Mar 22:20] <Eluvatar> kind of in the name...
[28 Mar 22:21] <Hileville> We are back on the SC thing?
[28 Mar 22:21] <Evil_Wolf> Which we wouldn't have to worry about if we hadn't nuked our military program in 2007
[28 Mar 22:21] <Haxburger> yeah
[28 Mar 22:21] <Haxburger> make a military
[28 Mar 22:21] <Haxburger> feeder militaries
[28 Mar 22:21] <Haxburger> Hear, hear!
[28 Mar 22:21] * Haxburger gives mom a baton
Click to expand...
 
#ncpp:
[28 Mar 22:21] <Eluvatar> Evil_Wolf: our lack of a military is totes your fault
[28 Mar 22:21] <Eluvatar> <_<
[28 Mar 22:21] <Haxburger> lead us to glory
[28 Mar 22:22] <Evil_Wolf> Yeah, I'm the one who made TNP not have a military for 5 years :P
[28 Mar 22:22] <Haxburger> why is it wooly's fault?
[28 Mar 22:23] <Evil_Wolf> Cause.
[28 Mar 22:23] <Haxburger> I can make army
[28 Mar 22:24] <Haxburger> Vote 4 me :D
[28 Mar 22:24] <Eluvatar> Haxburger: he was the last minister of defense, basically
[28 Mar 22:24] <Haxburger> oh
[28 Mar 22:24] <Evil_Wolf> Your hired, Hax :P
[28 Mar 22:24] <Eluvatar> late 2007
[28 Mar 22:24] <Haxburger> yay
[28 Mar 22:24] <Haxburger> who was the delegate
[28 Mar 22:24] <Eluvatar> Haxburger: rejoin the RA though
[28 Mar 22:24] <Haxburger> delegate needs to be taskmaster
[28 Mar 22:24] <Eluvatar> Haxburger: Tresville
[28 Mar 22:24] <Evil_Wolf> I thought there was someone after me
[28 Mar 22:24] <Eluvatar> maybe
[28 Mar 22:24] <Haxburger> delegate must crack whip
[28 Mar 22:24] <Eluvatar> I don't remember either of you doing anything though >_>
[28 Mar 22:24] <Evil_Wolf> HEH, yeah, Tressy loved the idea of a non-defender military
[28 Mar 22:24] <Evil_Wolf> He was all over supporting that
[28 Mar 22:24] <Haxburger> Tressy
[28 Mar 22:25] <Haxburger> must be b4 I played
[28 Mar 22:25] <Haxburger> or back when I was noobin it up
[28 Mar 22:25] --> Gulliver joined the channel
[28 Mar 22:25] <Evil_Wolf> Anyway, I declare Hax the new Minister of Defender for TNP
[28 Mar 22:25] <Evil_Wolf> Please mask accordingly :P
[28 Mar 22:26] --- ChanServ changed mode: +v Gulliver
[28 Mar 22:26] <Haxburger> yay
[28 Mar 22:26] <Haxburger> Can I hand out batons?
[28 Mar 22:26] <Eluvatar> Evil_Wolf: he needs RA membership
[28 Mar 22:27] <Evil_Wolf> Its not a Cabinet postition
[28 Mar 22:27] <Evil_Wolf> Position even
[28 Mar 22:27] <Haxburger> only the cabinet gets batons? :(
[28 Mar 22:28] <Haxburger> Elu
[28 Mar 22:28] <Haxburger> I forgot my TNP password
[28 Mar 22:28] <Haxburger> please help :)
[28 Mar 22:28] <Evil_Wolf> Only the Cabinet must be RA, even if they are TNP citizens, because TNP citizenship doesn't count for shit :P
[28 Mar 22:28] <Haxburger> oh
[28 Mar 22:28] <Haxburger> nevermind
[28 Mar 22:28] <Evil_Wolf> "Forgot your password" Hax :P
[28 Mar 22:28] <Haxburger> wat
[28 Mar 22:28] <Haxburger> it's true
[28 Mar 22:28] <Haxburger> too many forums
[28 Mar 22:28] <Evil_Wolf> No, click "forgot your password?"
[28 Mar 22:28] <Haxburger> oh
[28 Mar 22:28] <Haxburger> idk which email it is
[28 Mar 22:29] <Haxburger> making ELu do it is easier :P
[28 Mar 22:29] <Evil_Wolf> >_>
[28 Mar 22:29] <Eluvatar> D:
[28 Mar 22:29] <Eluvatar> Shouldn't you know when any of your emails gets an email?
[28 Mar 22:29] <Haxburger> how would I know that?
[28 Mar 22:29] <Haxburger> I'd have to check all of them
[28 Mar 22:29] * Eluvatar facepalms
[28 Mar 22:30] <Eluvatar> FORWARDING
[28 Mar 22:30] <Haxburger> lol I don't set that up
[28 Mar 22:30] <Eluvatar> Let's take this outside this publicly logged Congress
[28 Mar 22:30] <Eluvatar> and discuss your emails later
[28 Mar 22:30] <Haxburger> no one is reading this :P
[28 Mar 22:30] <Haxburger> hello public! :D
[28 Mar 22:31] <Eluvatar> It's going to be posted in TNP's forum
[28 Mar 22:31] <Evil_Wolf> To #TNP
[28 Mar 22:31] <-- Agamemnon left the channel
[28 Mar 22:31] <-- Earth left the channel
[28 Mar 22:31] <Eluvatar> bah
[28 Mar 22:32] <Hileville> I have an election to start in about 25 min so can we move on?
[28 Mar 22:32] <Haxburger> election?
[28 Mar 22:32] <Eluvatar> Balder.
[28 Mar 22:32] <Haxburger> oh
[28 Mar 22:32] <Haxburger> boring :P
[28 Mar 22:32] <Eluvatar> It seems we're winding down here.
[28 Mar 22:33] <Eluvatar> MOTION:
[28 Mar 22:34] * Haxburger prepares to say Aye
[28 Mar 22:34] <Eluvatar> That the ProP Manifesto declare that we wish to see a competent court in the coming election and hope that Hileville will stand as Chief Justice, that Agamemnon will stand as Associate Justice, and that Dyr Nasad or Felasia will stand as Associate Justice;
[28 Mar 22:35] <Haxburger> Aye
[28 Mar 22:35] * Haxburger slaps Evil_Wolf around a bit with a large trout
[28 Mar 22:35] <Haxburger> say aye wooly
[28 Mar 22:35] <Evil_Wolf> aye
[28 Mar 22:35] <Haxburger> :D
[28 Mar 22:36] <Haxburger> Hileville say aye
[28 Mar 22:36] <Eluvatar> that we support the revamped legal code as drafted, with additional changes as discussed in this congress (will be clarified);
[28 Mar 22:36] <Haxburger> oh there is more D:
[28 Mar 22:36] <Eluvatar> and that we support replacing the constitution in general and specifically changing it to have a 15 day eligibility rule, on top of hte changes applied by the omnibus amendment;
[28 Mar 22:36] <Eluvatar> IS THERE A SECOND?
[28 Mar 22:37] <Hileville> Second
[28 Mar 22:37] <Haxburger> I believe Evil Wolf seconded me
[28 Mar 22:37] <Eluvatar> OK
[28 Mar 22:37] <Eluvatar> ALL IN FAVOR?
[28 Mar 22:37] <Eluvatar> Aye
[28 Mar 22:37] <Gulliver> What are we in favor of
[28 Mar 22:37] <Haxburger> just say aye
[28 Mar 22:37] <Gulliver> Aye
[28 Mar 22:37] <Hileville> Aye
[28 Mar 22:37] <AMOM> Pie?
[28 Mar 22:37] <Haxburger> Aye
[28 Mar 22:37] <Evil_Wolf> Aye
[28 Mar 22:37] <Haxburger> no mom
[28 Mar 22:37] <Haxburger> AYE
[28 Mar 22:37] <AMOM> Eye?
[28 Mar 22:37] <Haxburger> no
[28 Mar 22:37] <Haxburger> AYE
[28 Mar 22:38] <AMOM> I?
[28 Mar 22:38] <Haxburger> no no
[28 Mar 22:38] <Haxburger> AYE
[28 Mar 22:38] <AMOM> Lye?
[28 Mar 22:38] <AMOM> Sky?
[28 Mar 22:38] <AMOM> Dry?
[28 Mar 22:38] <Evil_Wolf> rye
[28 Mar 22:38] <AMOM> Fly?
[28 Mar 22:38] <Eluvatar> (5:0:0:3:6)
[28 Mar 22:38] <AMOM> Die?
[28 Mar 22:38] <AMOM> Pry?
[28 Mar 22:38] <Haxburger> no
[28 Mar 22:38] <AMOM> Fry?
[28 Mar 22:38] <Haxburger> NO
[28 Mar 22:38] <Haxburger> LOOK
[28 Mar 22:38] <AMOM> Eli?
[28 Mar 22:38] <Haxburger> AYE
[28 Mar 22:38] <Haxburger> AYE AYE AYE
[28 Mar 22:38] <AMOM> Ali
[28 Mar 22:38] <Evil_Wolf> lulz
[28 Mar 22:38] <Haxburger> mom votes AYE
[28 Mar 22:38] <Haxburger> I do declare
[28 Mar 22:38] <Eluvatar> For it to be the true manifesto at this stage we would requir ea forum vote
[28 Mar 22:38] <Eluvatar> actually there are 7 absent I believe
[28 Mar 22:38] <AMOM> Ayyy....
[28 Mar 22:38] <AMOM> AAAaaaaayyy...
[28 Mar 22:38] <AMOM> AAAAAAAAAAAAYYY...
[28 Mar 22:38] <Haxburger> oh man
[28 Mar 22:39] <AMOM> Nay
[28 Mar 22:39] <AMOM> jk
[28 Mar 22:39] <Haxburger> DAMN IT
[28 Mar 22:39] <AMOM> AYE
[28 Mar 22:39] * Haxburger throws pie at mom's face
[28 Mar 22:39] <Eluvatar> I count myself, Gulliver, Hileville, Evil_Wolf, Haxburger, and AMOM in favor
[28 Mar 22:39] <Eluvatar> is there anyone else with a vote?
[28 Mar 22:39] <Haxburger> don't think so Elu
[28 Mar 22:40] <Eluvatar> PRESENT: Todd_McCloud, Wham, MooCows
[28 Mar 22:40] <Eluvatar> I don't think all 3 will agree
[28 Mar 22:40] <Eluvatar> therefore this will face further deliberation
[28 Mar 22:40] <Haxburger> urgh
[28 Mar 22:40] <Eluvatar> Motion to recess
[28 Mar 22:40] <Eluvatar> the Congress will be continued at a convenient time
[28 Mar 22:40] <Evil_Wolf> second
[28 Mar 22:40] <Eluvatar> (this is procedural so as to avoid another 72 hour announcement period)
[28 Mar 22:40] <Eluvatar> all in favor say aye
[28 Mar 22:40] <Eluvatar> AYE
[28 Mar 22:40] <Evil_Wolf> aye
[28 Mar 22:40] <Haxburger> AYE
[28 Mar 22:40] <Eluvatar> 3 in favor..
[28 Mar 22:41] <Hileville> AYE
[28 Mar 22:41] <Haxburger> do it right this time mom
[28 Mar 22:41] <Eluvatar> 4 in favor..
[28 Mar 22:41] <Eluvatar> needs 5 to carry, unless there's an abstain
[28 Mar 22:41] * Haxburger slaps AMOM around a bit with a large trout
[28 Mar 22:41] <AMOM> Aye
[28 Mar 22:41] <AMOM> dammit
[28 Mar 22:41] <Haxburger> yay
[28 Mar 22:41] <Eluvatar> MOTION CARRIES
[28 Mar 22:42] <Eluvatar> CONGRESS IS RECESSED
Click to expand...

Also, Abbey Anumia (Abbey) has been sponsored by Agamemnon, Eluvatar, and Todd McCloud and has joined the party.

Edit: Jamie has been sponsored by Hileville, Abbey Anumia, and Todd McCloud, and has joined the party.

1. Eluvatar
2. Gulliver *
3. Whamabama *
4. A Mean Old Man (AMOM)
5. Haxstree *
6. Felasia
7. Grimalkin (Agamemnon)
8. Blue Wolf II (Blue_Wolf)
9. Dyr Nasad (Dyr)
10. Oliver *
11. Todd McCloud *
12. Moo-Cows with guns (MooCows) *
13. Earth22 (Earth)
14. Hileville
15. mcmasterdonia
16. Abbey Anumia (Abbey) *
17. Jamie
 
The Fifth Congress's Second Session will take place between 2100 UTC Saturday March 31st and 0000 UTC Sunday April 1st.

That's between 1700 and 2000 EDT Saturday March 31st.

That's between 2200 BST Saturday March 31st and 0100 BST Sunday April 1st.

The Congress may recess early if that is judged appropriate.
 
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