TAO for delegate

TAO:
EM ... Finding Guardians that can be trusted is a most difficult task. There are few players out there with such integrity but they do exist. While it might appear they are all in TWP, I believe there are many here in TNP as well who simply need an opportunity to prove it.
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And, err, the other important points I raised?
 
TAO:
But again I will say ... Perhaps this is the under-pinning problem in TNP ... too few are noble enough to serve selflessly and/or with distinction. If all you crave is the cream without regard for the milk or the whey, then with your perceived level of agitation, the cream is becoming only whipped fluff.
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Allow me to summarize your position, and my position.

Your position: "Put me in charge of the only position that has any real effect on the game, because I'm so damned noble, and everyone here is a failure."

My position: The following governmental posts can be equated in real life terms as this:

President/Prime Minister: Mom
Judge: Dad
Ministers: Grandparents
Citizens: College students
Delegate: President of the United States
 
Emperor Matthuis:
TAO:
EM ... Finding Guardians that can be trusted is a most difficult task.  There are few players out there with such integrity but they do exist.  While it might appear they are all in TWP, I believe there are many here in TNP as well who simply need an opportunity to prove it.
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And, err, the other important points I raised?
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Let's see, there are a lot of us here that have never gone traipsing off to do the bidding of a rogue Delegate, and even more of us who have never been rogue Delegates.

But, nonetheless, your and Tao's statements have brought to mind a few interesting aspects on how to deal with the Guardian issue and refine it. And it also brings to mind a way in which the "Guardians" can keep a watchful eye that prevents a rogue situation yet prevents the Guardians from mounting a successful coup against the government itself. And it would fairly eliminate the issue of bad forum administration should that issue arise.

Here's how it would work:

We have a general and government forum, i.e: this particular forum as it has been the longest running forum and heir to every other forum for this region. You can even make the Delegate the admin of the government forum.

Then we establish an independent "Guardians" forum, that has no overlapping administration with the government forum. Then, the Guardians are specifically solicited from those individuals who are endorsing the Delegate at any given time, and they register on the Guardian forum under their nation's name. The purpose of the guardian forum is to coordinate endorsement actions for normal changes of Delegates or removal of rogue Delegates. The Delegate and The Government would then be required to solicit nations endorsing the Delegate to become member of the "Guardians". In short order, you have a substantial body of individuals that can rapidly act in the event a Delegate goes rogue or an election installs a new delegate.

The fact that the Delegate is an admin on the normal forum for the government decreases the likelyhood that the Delegate would go rogue and the government forum would be arbitrarily changed because the Guardians would then take action. Since the administration of the Guardian forum is mutually exclusive to the administration of the government forum, a coup would be very hard to conduct. The only real activity of the Guardians and the corresponding forum would be to coordinate endorsement actions and to take occasional role calls as needed to see how many members can be raised in an instant.

The Delegate would be required to post the address of the government forum and guardian forum in the WFE at all times, and both forums would be required to post links to the other. Think of the Guardians as a Senate that doesn't legislate but can remove a rogue delegate if needed.

The potential for a coup is decreased with the involvement of the largest number of people because you can be fairly sure that the larger the body of people that wields one single power, the less chance for it to be corrupted by the egomania of a dozen or so individuals.

Any thoughts? Comments? Constructive ideas?
 
Delegates coup and create new forums to get away from administrators who are opposed to them. As long as forum administration can be taken away from them (by root admin) in response to their politics, making the Delegate an admin will only decrease frustration at regular admin inactivity.

The Guardians idea would be promising if you had a way to get more than a handful of people on the forum. It's hard enough to get nations to join one set of forums, let alone a second whose sole purpose would be to control whom they're allowed to endorse and when. If you can't accomplish this through a subforum on the regular boards, you won't be able to accomplish it at all - separate administration won't change a thing.
 
We have generally preferred in TNP to keep forum administration and delegacy separate. When I was delegate, some may remember I stepped down from the administration of the forum during my term of office.
 
Personally,

I find it childish that people have in the past not been able to lose gracefully if their supported candidate does not win.

What's better a rogue delegate on a different forum, or a rogue delegate on a forum that has been used for quite some time. I know twoslit went belly up, but think of the history we'd still have encapsulated in one place is forum administration had been done with blinders on.

Perhaps a bit idealistic on my part, but I think forum administration has too often been used as a tool to control things versus administrating the forum of the region in a way that doesn't dive into the political leanings of the day.
 
I see in Kark's post that TAO posted that he was engaging in a cooperative effort with Gatesville - and did so on L&Cs rogue forum.

Please explain that to us, TAO.
 
punk d:
Personally,

I find it childish that people have in the past not been able to lose gracefully if their supported candidate does not win.

What's better a rogue delegate on a different forum, or a rogue delegate on a forum that has been used for quite some time. I know twoslit went belly up, but think of the history we'd still have encapsulated in one place is forum administration had been done with blinders on.

Perhaps a bit idealistic on my part, but I think forum administration has too often been used as a tool to control things versus administrating the forum of the region in a way that doesn't dive into the political leanings of the day.
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1. Our delegate is Constitutional.
2. Our delegate is much more responsible.
3. Our forum administration isn't in the hands of the government, meaning that government tyranny won't affect how the forum is run.
4. Our forum wasn't abolished.
5. Our delegate isn't rogue.
6. Our delegate won't undermine TNP with a secret coup plot.
7. Our delegate didn't plan on destroying TNP from before he even took office.
8. Our delegate didn't sell us out to Equilism.
9. Our forum has better smileys.
10. Our members are better than yours in quality.
 
How can a delegate that nullified a constitution be constitutional?!
 
Romanoffia:
I see in Kark's post that TAO posted that he was engaging in a cooperative effort with Gatesville - and did so on L&Cs rogue forum.

Please explain that to us, TAO.
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Actually, TAO was not on the forum at all. Some rather untrustworthy people only claimed that they were making progress towards getting TAO on their side.
 
Southwest Asia:
1. Our delegate is Constitutional.
2. Our delegate is much more responsible.
3. Our forum administration isn't in the hands of the government, meaning that government tyranny won't affect how the forum is run.
4. Our forum wasn't abolished.
5. Our delegate isn't rogue.
6. Our delegate won't undermine TNP with a secret coup plot.
7. Our delegate didn't plan on destroying TNP from before he even took office.
8. Our delegate didn't sell us out to Equilism.
9. Our forum has better smileys.
10. Our members are better than yours in quality.
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1. Nothing in your abolished constitution said that the speaker have the right to appoint a delegate.
2. Responsible? I haven't see evidence that indicates that GBM is more responsible than L&C.
3. Your Speaker of the RA is an Admin.... not a cabinet position, but you see how quick he gets the job done.
4. Yes, this forum was abolished
5. Yes, you don't have any Delegate yet. Just Rogue Delegate Wannabe.
6. If by undermine, you mean create an enimous amount of activity in the region than yes, guilty as charge.
7. He didn't plan on the revolution until the situation is dying in the region.
8. Well, he didn't sell TNP to us.
9. lol, I'lll skip this one.
10. lol, do you really believe what you just said? No offense to some "real quality" member like GBM, Sydia, and Flem.
 
Actually, z13 doesn't have a delegate. It has a provisional government and a candidate for the delegacy (or acting delegate if you want to call it that), but no delegate.

I say that it needs a new constitution before it succeeds in this struggle so that it can hit the ground running.
 
I think Gross appoint GBM as Interim Delegate here and GBM start appointing government in waiting, interim government, shadow cabinet, rogue cabinet or whatever the name it is.
 
Felasia:
Southwest Asia:
1. Our delegate is Constitutional.
2. Our delegate is much more responsible.
3. Our forum administration isn't in the hands of the government, meaning that government tyranny won't affect how the forum is run.
4. Our forum wasn't abolished.
5. Our delegate isn't rogue.
6. Our delegate won't undermine TNP with a secret coup plot.
7. Our delegate didn't plan on destroying TNP from before he even took office.
8. Our delegate didn't sell us out to Equilism.
9. Our forum has better smileys.
10. Our members are better than yours in quality.
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1. Nothing in your abolished constitution said that the speaker have the right to appoint a delegate.
2. Responsible? I haven't see evidence that indicates that GBM is more responsible than L&C.
3. Your Speaker of the RA is an Admin.... not a cabinet position, but you see how quick he gets the job done.
4. Yes, this forum was abolished
5. Yes, you don't have any Delegate yet. Just Rogue Delegate Wannabe.
6. If by undermine, you mean create an enimous amount of activity in the region than yes, guilty as charge.
7. He didn't plan on the revolution until the situation is dying in the region.
8. Well, he didn't sell TNP to us.
9. lol, I'lll skip this one.
10. lol, do you really believe what you just said? No offense to some "real quality" member like GBM, Sydia, and Flem.
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*hugs*

Yeah, I've long since stopped caring about internet politics SA (I mean, seriously? You guys still get worked up about this?), but your argument pretty much amounts to the plot of West Side Story, but without the music.

*breaks into song*
Puerto Rico,
You lovely island . . .
Island of tropical breezes.
Always the pineapples growing,
Always the coffee blossoms blowing . . .

Puerto Rico . . .
You ugly island . . .
Island of tropic diseases.
Always the hurricanes blowing,
Always the population growing . . .
Except with forums...instead of Puerto Rico...yeah, I'm not sure where I'm going with this. Anyway, the point is, I've been at this forum since forever, it's got a buttload of history, and a buttload of quality people. Of course, if I had my way we'd go back to the old, old forums...If it weren't clogged up with filth.
 
Felasia:
1. Nothing in your abolished constitution said that the speaker have the right to appoint a delegate.
2. Responsible? I haven't see evidence that indicates that GBM is more responsible than L&C.
3. Your Speaker of the RA is an Admin.... not a cabinet position, but you see how quick he gets the job done.
4. Yes, this forum was abolished
5. Yes, you don't have any Delegate yet. Just Rogue Delegate Wannabe.
6. If by undermine, you mean create an enimous amount of activity in the region than yes, guilty as charge.
7. He didn't plan on the revolution until the situation is dying in the region.
8. Well, he didn't sell TNP to us.
9. lol, I'lll skip this one.
10. lol, do you really believe what you just said? No offense to some "real quality" member like GBM, Sydia, and Flem.
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1. He was the highest ranking executive authority in the region, thus he was the government.
2. Well, she didn't disregard a constitution that was merely 2 months old.
3. Efficiency for the sake of tyranny is useless.
4. Really? When did that happen in the .info government? Never.
5. If your foreign supporters weren't in TNP, L&C wouldn't be the Delegate. Hence in terms of purely native votes, GBM is the Delegate.
6. Let's split this:
a. Enimous isn't a word.
b. I don't see the massive activity on your forum.
c. Any idiot can "create activity" if it means purposely destroying a region.
d. Your activity isn't permanent because you offer nothing new.
7. Split again:
a. This is not a grammatically valid sentence.
b. He did no such thing. He used the inactivity as a pretense for taking over our region for Equilism.
8. He sure planned on doing so, had we not decided to, you know, resist.
10. Yep.
 
1. He was the highest ranking executive authority in the region, thus he was the government.
2. Well, she didn't disregard a constitution that was merely 2 months old.
3. Efficiency for the sake of tyranny is useless.
4. Really? When did that happen in the .info government? Never.
5. If your foreign supporters weren't in TNP, L&C wouldn't be the Delegate. Hence in terms of purely native votes, GBM is the Delegate.
6. Let's split this:
a. Enimous isn't a word.
b. I don't see the massive activity on your forum.
c. Any idiot can "create activity" if it means purposely destroying a region.
d. Your activity isn't permanent because you offer nothing new.
7. Split again:
a. This is not a grammatically valid sentence.
b. He did no such thing. He used the inactivity as a pretense for taking over our region for Equilism.
8. He sure planned on doing so, had we not decided to, you know, resist.
10. Yep.
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1. So that make everything he said legitimate? Regarless of the fact in your constitution?
2. Your "highest ranking executive authority in the region" just disregrad the constitution. *See number 1*
3. Democracy within a limted group of peoples that later on resulting in inactivity is useless.
4. Don't understand what you said.
5. If you decide not to call in Foreign Support and act rebelly aganist the legitimate delegate then we would never need to call for outside help. The election clearly said that L&C is winner and GBM isn't even a part of the election.
6. My apologies, it's too early when I posted the word enormous.(I should have get coffee first :P) Anyway, when you said any idiot can create acitivity than why do I see you came back only after this revolution and not before? Our activity in the new forum is far more than just a spam in the games section. Our Regional Defence Force is active, The University provide a terrific study for everyone, Our House of Lord is full of new idea, even our spam section is better...
7. If you have a look around this forum before the revolution then you will realized that what you said is not true. (My apologies for the grammar error, I'm trying very hard to improve it, but the problem is that I'm addicted to NS :lol:")
8. Resist..... If he're going to sell TNP to Equilism then I don't think any resistance can stop him.
10. <_< Please don't let me say names......
 
Cut a community in two, is a shame!
Think that you are only savior of NS, is crazy!
To ally with raiders to take control of a Feeder, is a crime!

That is not difficult to understand, Democracy cannot answer for this act. Felasia, It's seem you where a defender and a good person, Why do you choose this way?
 
I'm a defender and if you check the E-Army public announcement or talk to FRA or TITO then you will learn that we're still actively defending and liberating region unlike the NPA..... The fact that we agreed with TLK and Gatesville to help TNP legitimate delegate doesn't means that we will turn into invaders.

I believe in change when it's necessary. It's not a questions of whether you're defender or invader or neutral. It's about the question of how far you will go to help NS and TNP from inactivity. We do not think we're the savior of NS, but we're the only group that act when others decide that any change that threaten their power aren't "proper" for TNP. We don't sit and watch TNP fade away. We act to defend it.

As a note: Khark is an invader and he agree with z13, shouldn't that mean that z13 is bad?

We're not the one who cut the community in two; it's some of you that decide to split it. We're willing to accept all of you back without trial or grudge. We want to reunited TNP and move forward.
 
We're not the one who cut the community in two; it's some of you that decide to split it. We're willing to accept all of you back without trial or grudge. We want to reunited TNP and move forward.
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Then I move back the Question for you, Are you willing to drop your own forum and your citizenship of Equilism to get people back together? Are you willing to trust people you seem to call old guard again? Are you willing to risk everything for TNP?

What come first Equilism or TNP?

Khark is an invader and he agree with z13, shouldn't that mean that z13 is bad?
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Hum...Did he say he agree with z13? I dont think so.

It's about the question of how far you will go to help NS and TNP from inactivity.
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Hum...so far...To ally yourself with Raiders. To throw aways all your past achievement to gain one victory, TO forget that you fight against them many time. It's seem the one who need to know how far he need to go, Its' you!

Look in yourself! NS can survive without this act of dishonor. We can all work together, why did you need to this? Change must be made by the people not by a cabal of person or by the hand of one King. It's seem that you dont trust anymore people. When people are working together for one goal nothing can stop them.
 
The fact that we agreed with TLK and Gatesville to help TNP legitimate delegate doesn't means that we will turn into invaders.
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No. It means that you have turned into much worse. Tools.

A casual glance at the papers Khark revealed shows that what we have always claimed is true: This was not an altruistic attempt at reviving TNP. It was a coolly calculated power grab, aimed at control of first one feeder then others. as Nevadar put it:

Lewis and Clark goes rogue (her word, not mine)
Consolidate
Move on and repeat.

Before the coup, activity was already well up and rising (I will happily send you the post stats by PM if you wish). Inactivity was the excuse used for the coup; it was not the reason. Reasons are more likely given in secret, smoke-filled rooms than in rhetoric trumpeted for the gullible masses to swallow.

If activity was really the issue, WW would have stayed here and kept the community together. The leaked papers show exactly what this is about: Power. Not for the sake of the region; but for the sake of a small cabal of players looking to control the game.

Take a look at Westwind's forum. If activity was REALLY the issue, do you not think he would have put as much effort into what is happening there now as he did plotting to gain power? as it is it took barely a fortnight for the Crimson Order to lapse into virtual inactivity - as members of the order privately will admit.

Wake up and smell the roses. You do not build this way. Somewhere deep down, I am sure you know this.
 
Look in yourself! NS can survive without this act of dishonor. We can all work together, why did you need to this? Change must be made by the people not by a cabal of person or by the hand of one King. It's seem that you dont trust anymore people. When people are working together for one goal nothing can stop them.
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The trick is to get any of them to work at all. Try it sometime. :P There's a reason TAO is so well-respected for what he's accomplished. Let's try to stick to that topic; there are plenty of other places where people can bring up Equilism's politics.
 
The trick is to get any of them to work at all. Try it sometime.  There's a reason TAO is so well-respected for what he's accomplished. Let's try to stick to that topic; there are plenty of other places where people can bring up Equilism's politics.
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TAO is respected and It's seem his idea are good BUT...If a solution is made is not by willingness of someone exterior but inside TNP. Like he said with his own words, someone who is noble and will not take the deleguacy for power.

The problem is now Equilism Politic are linked with TNP politic is a fact now, Read the post of Khark is not like WW dont tell he has the power on the two. For me, you have no independance.
 
Karastot:
The problem is now Equilism Politic are linked with TNP politic is a fact now, Read the post of Khark is not like WW dont tell he has the power on the two. For me, you have no independance.
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That's nice that you think so. As Head of Government, I disagree.

There is no reason for Equilism politics to be discussed in a thread about TAO, unless you think that TAO would have some reason to include us in his plans for TNP? :eyebrow: I would be most surprised if that were the case.

If you feel that strongly about the issue, I would be happy to discuss it in a separate thread.
 
Then I move back the Question for you, Are you willing to drop your own forum and your citizenship of Equilism to get people back together? Are you willing to trust people you seem to call old guard again? Are you willing to risk everything for TNP?

What come first Equilism or TNP?
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Yes, I trust and respect some members of this forum (ex: Flem, GBM, Sydia etc.), but some of you don't deserve the respect and the trust I have. I already risk everything for TNP right now and I'm going to continue. I will do whatever it takes to make TNP active again.

As long as Equilism and TNP policy is in agreement than I don't see the need to choose. If their policy become different then I will make the decision when the time come.

Hum...Did he say he agree with z13? I dont think so.
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heh, ask some of your member about that secret file.

Hum...so far...To ally yourself with Raiders. To throw aways all your past achievement to gain one victory, TO forget that you fight against them many time. It's seem the one who need to know how far he need to go, Its' you!

Look in yourself! NS can survive without this act of dishonor. We can all work together, why did you need to this? Change must be made by the people not by a cabal of person or by the hand of one King. It's seem that you dont trust anymore people. When people are working together for one goal nothing can stop them.
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What did I forget? What did I fight aganist? Do you really think the world is black and white? Just because they are raider doesn't means that they're satan.....

Tell me this, have you seen NS this active before the revolution? Change is being made by a people and we're not stucking with a cabal of old guard here. I think you're the one who don't trust anyone anymore.

And Yes, when people are working together for one goal nothing can stop them. That is exactly what the Crimson Order is doing.

There is no reason for this to be discussed in a thread about TAO. If you want to continue this then PM me because I will be happy to share my view with you.
 
Felasia:
1. So that make everything he said legitimate? Regarless of the fact in your constitution?
2. Your "highest ranking executive authority in the region" just disregrad the constitution. *See number 1*
3. Democracy within a limted group of peoples that later on resulting in inactivity is useless.
4. Don't understand what you said.
5. If you decide not to call in Foreign Support and act rebelly aganist the legitimate delegate then we would never need to call for outside help. The election clearly said that L&C is winner and GBM isn't even a part of the election.
6. My apologies, it's too early when I posted the word enormous.(I should have get coffee first :P) Anyway, when you said any idiot can create acitivity than why do I see you came back only after this revolution and not before? Our activity in the new forum is far more than just a spam in the games section. Our Regional Defence Force is active, The University provide a terrific study for everyone, Our House of Lord is full of new idea, even our spam section is better...
7. If you have a look around this forum before the revolution then you will realized that what you said is not true. (My apologies for the grammar error, I'm trying very hard to improve it, but the problem is that I'm addicted to NS :lol:")
8. Resist..... If he're going to sell TNP to Equilism then I don't think any resistance can stop him.
10. <_< Please don't let me say names......
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1. The Constitution had no provisions for both Del and Vice Del leaving, so essentially what he didn't wasn't against the Constitution. The fact that he appointed an interim Del is completely Constitutional because it did not violate the Constitution.

Abolishing it without a vote, however, is very clearly unConstitutional.

2. There was no part of the Constitution to disregard, n00b. Yours, however, blatantly violated the Constitution.

3. Your group is limited, not democratic, and has resulted in inactivity.

4. You never abolished our forums. Yours are therefore illegitimate.

5. You called in outside help long before we did.

6. Split:

a. I came back because I finished college applications, not because of your lack of wit and brevity.

b. Your "activity" consists of posts establishing your new government, so those posts will die down, and it consists of the occasional insult towards us. That's about it.

c. Your regional defense force raids.

d. You have yet to show the world that you even have classes, and thus I'm going to assume you're lying until otherwise noted.

e. Your only new "idea" in the HoL was to kick Khark out.

7. If you look at the posted documents by Khark from the Crimson Order forum, it's pretty clear he did use the inactivity as a pretense.

8. If he were competent, then I'd be worried. Note, however, that this guy lead the ADN to its glorious decline. I'm not the least bit worried.

10. Like what, Agamemnon?
 
Romanoffia:
I see in Kark's post that TAO posted that he was engaging in a cooperative effort with Gatesville - and did so on L&Cs rogue forum.

Please explain that to us, TAO.
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Wow ... first Lazarus and now TNP. :lol: TAO has been accused of many things in four years of game playing so nothing surprises me any more.

I guess I was ~hoping~ to cooperate with Gatesville. I had hoped the GV crew could move me a hundred or so endos closer to my 1K goal. If by helping me I was able to help them, that would be fair. And come on ... who outside The Pacific doesn't want to be the one known for taking The Pacific? As for TNP ... I was aware of what was going on (little passes by unknown to TAO) but not a participant. I even suggested to L&C his plan would take months (into years) to pull off if he tried while a Minnow.

I will also say that both Gates and L&C TGed me in game to apologize for tying up everyone and his brother in TNP during my Endo Events. I really do think I could have reached 750 or so had TNP not been all pouchy. Admittedly, 1000 endos was a dream ... but it was a good dream ... not like the dreams that others have.

Regardless of Polts' position regarding TAO, I would still be willing to serve TNP as a compromise delegate in a new (simpler, less bureaucratic) government. And I would guarantee I would serve ~at least~ three months and ~at most~ six months and then peacefully transition the region over to the next regionally selected delegate. The exact terms for such a compromise could be discussed later, if accepted. And if such a compromise could be negotiated, TNP would be saved months of stalemate.

Of course, TAO is just as happy not being anyone of importance. And I have to admit, I like the arcade games in the other forum. As silly as it sounds, I have never played such games online before ... they are kinda fun. Could a forum like this one host such a thing?
 
I believe GBM had been appointed Vice-Delegate by Lewis and Clark himself. Grosse simply recognized that.
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Yes, but it doesn't mean that vice-delegate can takeover when the delegate is still here and it is aganist every democracy ideal you have in this region.

1. The Constitution had no provisions for both Del and Vice Del leaving, so essentially what he didn't wasn't against the Constitution. The fact that he appointed an interim Del is completely Constitutional because it did not violate the Constitution.

Abolishing it without a vote, however, is very clearly unConstitutional.

2. There was no part of the Constitution to disregard, n00b. Yours, however, blatantly violated the Constitution.

3. Your group is limited, not democratic, and has resulted in inactivity.

4. You never abolished our forums. Yours are therefore illegitimate.

5. You called in outside help long before we did.

6. Split:

a. I came back because I finished college applications, not because of your lack of wit and brevity.

b. Your "activity" consists of posts establishing your new government, so those posts will die down, and it consists of the occasional insult towards us. That's about it.

c. Your regional defense force raids.

d. You have yet to show the world that you even have classes, and thus I'm going to assume you're lying until otherwise noted.

e. Your only new "idea" in the HoL was to kick Khark out.

7. If you look at the posted documents by Khark from the Crimson Order forum, it's pretty clear he did use the inactivity as a pretense.

8. If he were competent, then I'd be worried. Note, however, that this guy lead the ADN to its glorious decline. I'm not the least bit worried.

10. Like what, Agamemnon?
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1. A bullshit democratic in my opinion then.... You claim that you are democratic yet you select peoples within your circle?

2. Calling me noobs... I'm flatter. :D This is clearly the answer for number 10. I might not have been in z13 forum very long, but my nations have been in TNP for 1+1/2 Years that I play NS and I've only play NS for 2 years and I still have much to learn. Building yourself up by tearing me down is something I really enjoy seeing people try, but that doens't mean I'm going to let you do it. <_<

He disregard the abolishes constitution that the delegate must be elected by the peoples and not by one man with the most authority in this z13 government.

3. Please don't tell me that your group of nations here are democratic when you selected the delegate and also appointed minister to position like we're.

4. The delegate abolishe your forum. It's just my view that I no longer recognize this forum.

5. Have you ever considered joining the "real forum" before answer this question? Our university is currently open with many course like NS history, Physics, Greek and a couple lessons had already start.

Our RDF have been in a defence mission with TITO unlike the NPA...........

HOL - check it before you talk

Activity - we have balls, HOL, "real" army, so compare it to the current state of your government...

7. Khark posted it because he's not happy that we decide to start on going a little more "democracy" because he want the power to himself.

8. ADN was at the peak when he is still a member. Can you claim that you're the one who lead the only successful feeder liberation in the history? He left the ADN before it decline.

10. Check #2 because that's the first name I'm going to give you.
 
Tell me this, have you seen NS this active before the revolution? Change is being made by a people and we're not stucking with a cabal of old guard here.
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Yes I have seen change before this event, you are just blinb or it's just you think you are the only WORTHY people who can bring change? Come on, you know that with time the people will have obligated to change. You just made it faster and painful, and surely in vain. When the emotion will be down nothing will have change.
 
Hey, Felasia, noone asked you to come by.

If any of z13 wanted to have a mindless debate with you, they'd go over to Westwind's forum.

Now, please go back to northpacific.info so you can have your mindless banter with the rest of the folks over there and talk about how great it is that you all agree on everything.
 
Hey, Felasia, noone asked you to come by.

If any of z13 wanted to have a mindless debate with you, they'd go over to Westwind's forum.
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Like you, Karkh! Not because you released this info that you are now a GOOD FRIEND and ally of Z13. Come on Khark, you are responsible like everyone that you have pointed. Dont act like you have done nothing.
 
Oh, I've admitted I made the wrong choice when I initially went over to Westwind's forum.

Also, I made sure not to say "we", but instead "z13" because I'm not officially part of this group. Not at the moment anyways.
 
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