TAO for delegate

L&C can never catch up to GBM in influence, ever.
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Roman, I want this to be true, but in the face of all data that we have, it seems to be false. Do you have the formula that calculates influence? I don't, but I do know that implementing a system in which this would be true would be counter-productive to what the moderators wish to achieve. Part statistics, part psychology - the idea of the influence system is to stabilize regions, not make them stagnate.

It takes a long time, and LAC would have to stay away from banning people in the mean time, but he'll get there unless we beat him first. Telling ourselves anything else encourages a hedging strategy that could well cost us the victory. For the moment, time is on their side while speed is on ours. We need to get those 40 endorsements together, not wait for LAC to give up.

2. If he stops ejecting nations, he would be gone in 72 hours, tops.
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His last banjection was more than 48 hours ago, and unfortunately the gap has not significantly changed since then. It has been as low as 36, but varied between there and 41 without further bannings.

Further evidence that waiting will not achieve a thing. We have to do this or it won't happen.

Which brings me to the next point

We can take out L&C in one update if we do what I have laid out. It's very simple and all we have to do is to do it.
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PM me?
 
I know exactly how to manipulate game mechanics to remove L&C in one fell swoop if anyone would listen to me. We have the numbers and we have the means to do it. It can also be cone in one update and there's nothing he can do to stop it.

We can take out L&C in one update if we do what I have laid out. It's very simple and all we have to do is to do it.
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It doesn't involve Stars of Sky or the Illuminati again does it? :eyeroll:

Edit: Quote tags.
 
I think he may be talking about "The Puppet Mistress."

Ok, I just got a wrong image in my head.

EDIT: Whoops! I didn't mean to contribute to the off-topicness of the TAO thread. Sorry!
 
Emperor Matthuis:
I know exactly how to manipulate game mechanics to remove L&C in one fell swoop if anyone would listen to me. We have the numbers and we have the means to do it. It can also be cone in one update and there's nothing he can do to stop it.

We can take out L&C in one update if we do what I have laid out. It's very simple and all we have to do is to do it.
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It doesn't involve Stars of Sky or the Illuminati again does it? :eyeroll:

Edit: Quote tags.
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Actually, it's doesn't although those two methods would suffice. I just thought it would be more entertaining to rub some salt into L&C's wounds when this is all over.

Revenge is a meal best served cold. In this case it will be served with the best wine available. ;D
 
Eluvatar:
Romanoffia:
Revenge is a meal best served cold. In this case it will be served with the best wine available. ;D
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Revenge is a meal best not eaten. It's bad for you.
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Not at all - revenge is especially sweet when seasoned with Justice and Retribution. :w00t:

But mostly Justice.

My one fault is that I tend to forgive people too easily and tend to let bygones be bygones. I even went to bat for cathyy and IP with the intent of trying to make things better. And even Ivan. In those cases my instincts were correct. Not so with L&C because mainly his followers are the usual suspects who are constantly in the background supporting rogue elements like L&C.

Watching the parade of rogue delegates prattle through TNP is beginning to take its toll on my good disposition. If there is one mark I ever intend to make upon NS and this region it is now to soundly and forever dispense with those who persistently frig around and make life a misery for everyone. I am now converted over to the ideal that those like L&C and The Criminal Disorder need to be served up the same exact treatment they dished out and right down to the last parsnip - but with a cherry placed on top. :evil:

I have one personal and very simple rule to abide by from now on: I believe in reducing a fight to the lowest common denominator and if someone violates the order of common decency I no longer am required to abide by any ethics, morality or orders of fair play in combating them. If someone stabs you in the back with a knife your don't stab them back - you drop a nuke on their asses.

We're all to nice and being too nice will get you walked all over. I just don't want to defeat the enemy, I want to utterly abuse the enemy so badly that their ancestors will feel it in their graves. I want Nuremberg style trials for L&C and his treasonous buddies without any form of forgiveness for their treasonous transgressions.

I stated a while back that God help NS if I ever decided to stop playing Mr. Nice Guy. Well, no more Mr. Nice Guy. The gloves are off and the kidney punches are on their way.
 
I disagree.

Some who sided with Lewis and Clark did so because they honestly thought it would be better for the region. Many of them of course have at this point become inactive on his side.

I do not want TNP to stay in conflict after this war ends. I certainly think it's wrong to abandon all morals in combating Lewis and Clark.
 
Eluvatar:
Some who sided with Lewis and Clark did so because they honestly thought it would be better for the region. Many of them of course have at this point become inactive on his side.
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I've been trying to get a few of those guys to come back here, but they still aren't completely convinced you trust us, or are just sick of TNP in general.
 
Eluvatar:
I disagree.

Some who sided with Lewis and Clark did so because they honestly thought it would be better for the region. Many of them of course have at this point become inactive on his side.

I do not want TNP to stay in conflict after this war ends. I certainly think it's wrong to abandon all morals in combating Lewis and Clark.
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L&C did so out of his own lust for power, nothing more, nothing less.

The only way to end the conflict is to totally eliminate the enemy and assure they never contaminate the region again. It's the same 'old guard' of power mongers that support L&C right back to the Pixiedance fiasco. The same group. Eliminate that group from ever getting in here again and you solve the problem.

Everyone fails to see that we constantly forgive the transgressors and traitors, let them back in again and then we all wonder why we end up with another rogue delegate.

What we need to do is to dispense with L&C as fast as possible and then utterly marginalize and stomp at every opportunity any threats to the freedom of this region. It sounds harsh, but until we stamp out the rogue elements we will go through this until the end of time.
 
No Romanoffia, it's attitudes like yours right now which cause repeated some Rogue Delegacies. Sure Lewis and Clark may have done this out of selfish reasons, not for TNP, but I do believe Dalimbar for instance was simply disgusted with the system and with attitudes like the one you just displayed.
 
TAO thinks the Influence awarder is an exponential equation. Still thinking through the details but time in region, number of nations (total) in region, and endos are the main positive values. In my thinking, for f(I) < 2, you are a minnow, f(I) < 3, you are a vassal, etc. The equation itself would be something like f(I)= 1/N(1 + E)^t, where N = nations in region, E = endos, and t = time in region. (added note: This is still in the thinking stage ... don't quote me about a formula just yet.)

Eh - L&C can never catch up to GBM in influence, ever. And that matter is made worse because L&C has to eject so many nations to stay in power.
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IF ... If L&C keeps ejecting nations to ward off a GBM attack, then TAO agrees. If this were not the case, then with a greater endo count, L&C would eventually approach, equal, and surpass even GBM in Influence.
 
TAO:
TAO thinks the Influence awarder is an exponential equation.  Still thinking through the details but time in region, number of nations (total) in region, and endos are the main positive values.  In my thinking, for f(I) < 2, you are a minnow, f(I) < 3, you are a vassal, etc.  The equation itself would be something like f(I)= 1/N(1 + E)^t, where N = nations in region, E = endos, and t = time in region.  (added note: This is still in the thinking stage ... don't quote me about a formula just yet.)

Eh - L&C can never catch up to GBM in influence, ever. And that matter is made worse because L&C has to eject so many nations to stay in power.
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IF ... If L&C keeps ejecting nations to ward off a GBM attack, then TAO agrees. If this were not the case, then with a greater endo count, L&C would eventually approach, equal, and surpass even GBM in Influence.
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I think TAO is largely correct except that rather than calculating influence at each update based on endorsements and time in the region I think that there is a constant accumulation of influence points based on endorsements.
 
OK, I left something out. Try this on for thought.

I = 1/N (1 + E/WA)^t

Example, Region Pouchy has 3600 nations with 500 WAs. Wombat Warriors has been in the region for 20 days and has 280 endos.

Using the formula, after the 20 days, WW is a VASSAL. This is pretty close to what really happened with me in TWP.
 
Eluvatar:
Is this with the assumption that for the time t the nation in question has always had the same E?
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It doesn't have to ...

But STILL this isn't feeling right ... even to me. Maybe we should split this thread and go into a formula thinktank thread. :)
 
Eluvatar:
No Romanoffia, it's attitudes like yours right now which cause repeated some Rogue Delegacies. Sure Lewis and Clark may have done this out of selfish reasons, not for TNP, but I do believe Dalimbar for instance was simply disgusted with the system and with attitudes like the one you just displayed.
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:clap:
 
Haor Chall:
Eluvatar:
No Romanoffia, it's attitudes like yours right now which cause repeated some Rogue Delegacies. Sure Lewis and Clark may have done this out of selfish reasons, not for TNP, but I do believe Dalimbar for instance was simply disgusted with the system and with attitudes like the one you just displayed.
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:clap:
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:agree: :clap:
 
Romanoffia:
The only way to end the conflict is to totally eliminate the enemy and assure they never contaminate the region again. It's the same 'old guard' of power mongers that support L&C right back to the Pixiedance fiasco. The same group. Eliminate that group from ever getting in here again and you solve the problem.

[...]

What we need to do is to dispense with L&C as fast as possible and then utterly marginalize and stomp at every opportunity any threats to the freedom of this region. It sounds harsh, but until we stamp out the rogue elements we will go through this until the end of time.
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I'm very sorry for this, Roman, and I hope we can continue to be friends personally, but I feel that I must formally distance myself from what you're advocating above.

An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind. A total war has no winner. Eliminate, marginalize and stomp all you will; you won't get anything but ash and scorched earth.

This is a battle for the hearts of the region. There are many who have been misguided by Westwind. That there is, at the top, a cabal of Gatesville invaders, does not stop the problem that people are actively being told we are their enemy, and we need to convince them otherwise. I need not stress how harmful it would be for this cause if they encounter this hostility.
 
Eluvatar:
TAO:
TAO thinks the Influence awarder is an exponential equation.  Still thinking through the details but time in region, number of nations (total) in region, and endos are the main positive values.  In my thinking, for f(I) < 2, you are a minnow, f(I) < 3, you are a vassal, etc.  The equation itself would be something like f(I)= 1/N(1 + E)^t, where N = nations in region, E = endos, and t = time in region.  (added note: This is still in the thinking stage ... don't quote me about a formula just yet.)

Eh - L&C can never catch up to GBM in influence, ever. And that matter is made worse because L&C has to eject so many nations to stay in power.
Click to expand...
IF ... If L&C keeps ejecting nations to ward off a GBM attack, then TAO agrees. If this were not the case, then with a greater endo count, L&C would eventually approach, equal, and surpass even GBM in Influence.
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I think TAO is largely correct except that rather than calculating influence at each update based on endorsements and time in the region I think that there is a constant accumulation of influence points based on endorsements.
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You would be wrong, influence is only accumalated at each of the two daily updates.
 
That would make more sense, yes. Keep in mind that the game is specifically coded such that mass updates are run in bulk to avoid performance problems. Updating influence in tiny increments constantly just is not feasible.

But Al Homa, are you sure that the second update increases influence? Just wondering if this has been observed.
 
Yes it does, if you want proof, just ask any invader or defender. They run out of influence after the main update from banning and ejecting each other and then recieve another batch of influence at the midday update.
 
Sorry I didn't mean continuously, I meant at each update-- my point was that Influence is accumulated rather than recalculated.
 
TAO:
TAO thinks the Influence awarder is an exponential equation. Still thinking through the details but time in region, number of nations (total) in region, and endos are the main positive values. In my thinking, for f(I) < 2, you are a minnow, f(I) < 3, you are a vassal, etc. The equation itself would be something like f(I)= 1/N(1 + E)^t, where N = nations in region, E = endos, and t = time in region. (added note: This is still in the thinking stage ... don't quote me about a formula just yet.)

Eh - L&C can never catch up to GBM in influence, ever. And that matter is made worse because L&C has to eject so many nations to stay in power.
Click to expand...
IF ... If L&C keeps ejecting nations to ward off a GBM attack, then TAO agrees. If this were not the case, then with a greater endo count, L&C would eventually approach, equal, and surpass even GBM in Influence.
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And if L&C stops ejecting nations as he is doing now, he's toast.


He gets coming to him, both ways and the inevitable end result is the same - he falls with a resounding thump.
 
Eluvatar:
No Romanoffia, it's attitudes like yours right now which cause repeated some Rogue Delegacies. Sure Lewis and Clark may have done this out of selfish reasons, not for TNP, but I do believe Dalimbar for instance was simply disgusted with the system and with attitudes like the one you just displayed.
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Addendum:

Not really. The cause of rogue delegates is the direct result of the fact that we are too idealistic to do what is necessary to preserve freedom and democracy in TNP. We simple let a dictator take over by letting him use our own system as a tool to overthrow the system.

We saw all the warning signs, some of us even knew what L&C was planning yet the rest didn't listen and clung foolishly to the belief that no one would dare go rogue.

IOW, the majority of people here lacked the will and desire to do anything to stop the overthrow of our own government by someone raping the Constitution and then using convoluted and demented 'logic' to justify that overthrow. IOW, we displayed weakness and someone took advantage of it.

We should never let that happen again and we can prevent it from happening again but that requires that we be more brutal in our dealings with those who try to and do steal TNP for their own self-aggrandizement like L&C did.

Being nice to enemies you defeat does nothing to prevent them from coming back and trying the same thing again. Soundly thumping them until they can't walk for a year does.

Instead of actually doing something to remove L&C, we all just sit here and argue the finer esoteric points of screwing someone via tired and constantly used tactics that take too long to work.

We are going to get our act together and do what needs to be done as quickly as it can be done. And we will remove L&C and his criminal gang and do it promptly. And once they are removed we need the will to not be very forgiving about the backstabbing we were given.

What you have failed to see is that the very attitude of what we have been doing every time (i.e.: being forgiving and welcoming back former enemies) is exactly what leads to repeat rogue delegates.
 
We saw all the warning signs, some of us even knew what L&C was planning yet the rest didn't listen and clung foolishly to the belief that no one would dare go rogue.
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Care to point out the posts warning of L&C rogue tendencies?

IOW, the majority of people here lacked the will and desire to do anything to stop the overthrow of our own government by someone raping the Constitution and then using convoluted and demented 'logic' to justify that overthrow. IOW, we displayed weakness and someone took advantage of it.
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I agree, if more people had told L&C he was being very naughty when he suspended the constitution, I'm sure he'd of given it back and said sorry.

Instead of actually doing something to remove L&C, we all just sit here and argue the finer esoteric points of screwing someone via tired and constantly used tactics that take too long to work.
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That is an interesting argument from someone who has contributed more to the word count here in the last month than most of the rest of us combined. Also, I thought there wasn't anything to be done? After all, in L&C is "toast", regardless of whether he continues to banject or not. He is finished either way. The war is already won. Isn't it?
 
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