The Point

Fulhead Land:
Democracy, Now!

i look forward to the part where Roamnoffia Brando shouts "the horror, the horror!"


mean, face it, the invader/defender dynamic was at the center of this game. You either replace it immediately with something or try and repair it, but trying to build up activity without a reason to do so is a futile task at best.
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Do go on. How would you, SWA, fix the game? Long winded constitutions and pathetic arguements?
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Tsk, tsk, tsk. Elected or not, any delegate who goes rogue by declaring the Constitution null and void and then goes and declares himself king is either a nutcase, a fool or both - and a tyrant and tin-horn in any case. :lol:

L&C or Break Wind or whatever the Crimson Kriminal calls himself these days must have designed his forum with the doctrine of "Design something so simple even an idiot can use it and only and idiot will use it". But Christalmighty, does he have to bore people to death in the process?

He reminds me of Robespierre, and we know how he got hoisted on his own petard.

For God's sake - torture me, shoot me, draw and quarter me, but PLEEEEEEZE don't bore me. :lol:

The sad part is that L&C could have really accomplished great things if he just adhered to the Constitution he swore to uphold instead of spitting in everyone's face, including yours. When he falls in a couple of weeks, I will do a happy dance, naked, with bells on, across the regional forum. That's if I can stop laughing long enough at L&C making a total jackass of himself and his co-conspirators.

Tea, anyone? Perhaps some Earl Grey?

:bunny:
 
Haor Chall:
Southwest Asia:
You assume that the game needs fixing because big long words are too much for you. Well guess what? The purpose of this game is to create the best region possible, and that means through a democratic process.
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That is an interesting supposition. Which, in of itself highlights the underlying flaw with your position. Your answer to the question hinges on this single assumption, without any adequate explanation of why. Therefore, with this initial premise unproven, one must query whether your answer is, in fact, flawed.
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A democratic process solves for two things:

1. Inactivity. If you have people participating in the process, then they're not being inactive.
2. Purpose. This game, after all, is a political simulation. Games simulating dictatorships aren't much fun unless you're constantly destroying said dictatorships, which seems to be an unstable proposition given the fact that constant destruction would turn off gamers who wanted some form of progress.
 
If I may interject...

I agree with both counts.

Strong Democratic process keeps people involved.
As the new Prime Minister of TLK and long time head of Parliament , I've been pushing HUGE reforms in process. The Last Kingdom isn't even a kingdom anymore, heh.

Secondly, military action also keeps OTHER players interested. Those with the interest in taking over regions. In an attempt to keep senseless raiding into a more moral argument, TLK invades obviously Inative regions, TGs every nation asking them to relocate to a more active region, and offering them shelter in TLK.

What I"m attempting to get at (without sounding like an advertisement) is that A defender/raider dynamic topped with a democratic process, as well as another thing not mentioned here that I've been trying to implement in TLK is a larger General Discussion area where everyone, regardless of interest can post as a community.

It isn't about the game. It's about the community. For those of you who've visited the TLK embassy and listened to my inaugural address, I think we can all agree. Activity can come in all these forms. There is no one better than the other in terms of activity, and the raider/fender argument is one that can be played out in however one sees fit. It's all game dynamic.

Can I get a hear hear?
 
rykkland:
If I may interject...

I agree with both counts.

Strong Democratic process keeps people involved.
As the new Prime Minister of TLK and long time head of Parliament , I've been pushing HUGE reforms in process. The Last Kingdom isn't even a kingdom anymore, heh.

Secondly, military action also keeps OTHER players interested. Those with the interest in taking over regions. In an attempt to keep senseless raiding into a more moral argument, TLK invades obviously Inative regions, TGs every nation asking them to relocate to a more active region, and offering them shelter in TLK.

What I"m attempting to get at (without sounding like an advertisement) is that A defender/raider dynamic topped with a democratic process, as well as another thing not mentioned here that I've been trying to implement in TLK is a larger General Discussion area where everyone, regardless of interest can post as a community.

It isn't about the game. It's about the community. For those of you who've visited the TLK embassy and listened to my inaugural address, I think we can all agree. Activity can come in all these forms. There is no one better than the other in terms of activity, and the raider/fender argument is one that can be played out in however one sees fit. It's all game dynamic.

Can I get a hear hear?
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I give you a semi-hear, hear.

The problem is that total and absolute democracies end up in apathy an inactivity, and that' why republics are instituted.

Our current situation is a perfect illustration of why the cost of freedom is eternal vigilance. The minute you even blink, a dictator comes along and takes over.

The power lies in the people and if the people go to sleep, then a handfull of kooks can take over like we see now with King Krimson Kriminal, aka, L&C.

If the people fall asleep, hopefully a handful of true libertarians till hold the line until the people get off their asses and do something about it.

And that's why representative governments (i.e. Repbublics) are superior to pure democracies.


R
 
TLK does both.
All citizens are members of the House of Commons. They Elect Representatives to the House of Lords, and we have an appointed Cabinet for the Founder/King.

We have Imperial, Representative, and Democratic ideals
 
Romanoffia:
Music Pirate:
Well, frankly I don't see a problem with atleast giving the whole system another run through and see how the results pan out. I mean it was Gore who called for a recount afterall, so even if you are calling him out for supporting Bush, CK is the Gore in this case... minus the movie... and the nobel prize
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Point being, that when the Constitution didn't give the dictator rogue delegate any such authority, he 'nullified' the constitution without any democratic process. He thinks he can seize power with impunity and have no one resist him. He is wrong and Democracy will take him down.
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Like when you and the rest of the then cabinet blocked people from joining the RA because they did not agree with you or you didn't like them?!
 
Poltsamaa:
Romanoffia:
Music Pirate:
Well, frankly I don't see a problem with atleast giving the whole system another run through and see how the results pan out. I mean it was Gore who called for a recount afterall, so even if you are calling him out for supporting Bush, CK is the Gore in this case... minus the movie... and the nobel prize
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Point being, that when the Constitution didn't give the dictator rogue delegate any such authority, he 'nullified' the constitution without any democratic process. He thinks he can seize power with impunity and have no one resist him. He is wrong and Democracy will take him down.
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Like when you and the rest of the then cabinet blocked people from joining the RA because they did not agree with you or you didn't like them?!
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I never blocked anyone from joining the RA and I defy you to prove that I ever did. And when did I ever have the magical powers to do such a thing? :blink:
 
Agamemnon Mustang:
Please, we don't need someone like you to know the legitimacy of our government.
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Your supposed government gave up all claims of legitimacy as soon as you tried to force people into using the new forums, then posted email addresses and ip addresses of those who posted anything other than that which was wanted by yourselves.

Just out of curiosity, how long has this been planned for then? (looking at the date of registration on the domain those forums are hosted on (forums I'd advise everybody to avoid) it's been a while to say the least)
 
I don't know who you are, but this game CLT plays is getting old. They insist that any forum that belongs to one of their target invasions is a phishing scheme. It gives them an excuse to smash the community and put in one of their puppets.
 
Right now I feel like I'm suffering from some mental confusion. I can't even remember the point of this thread.

Dark, I have no idea what you're talking. None. Really. Who are CLT puppets? Do I know any of them? Please let me know so I can watch out for them.

Mental Confusion, this is the first I've heard of IP and e-mail addresses being posted on L&C's forum. Frankly, in the absence of further verification, I don't believe it.

Polts, we understand being denied acceptance into the RA in the wake of the Pixiedance affair was upsetting to you. Please check the voting records, but I believe I voted in favor of granting RA status. IIRC given the political climate, it was not an easy choice to make. But I believed then, as I do now, that it was the fair thing to do.
 
Great Bights Mum:
Mental Confusion, this is the first I've heard of IP and e-mail addresses being posted on L&C's forum. Frankly, in the absence of further verification, I don't believe it.
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Well I cannot say I disagree with your taking that stance, in fact I applaud it.

I can say that I would much prefer that attitude to prevail than one of instant condemnation without proof being produced, which unfortunately I cannot provide you with.
 
Great Bights Mum:
Right now I feel like I'm suffering from some mental confusion. I can't even remember the point of this thread.

Dark, I have no idea what you're talking. None. Really. Who are CLT puppets?
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Sadly, you are about to become one. I refer to puppet governments rather than the in-game reference to alternate nations.

I'm icing my hands right now, but maybe tomorrow we can get together in IM and talk. My addy is listed in my profile.
 
Gates is looking for a puppet, CLT is looking for a puppet, probably Geppeto World Dominance is looking for a puppet too. I think you may have forgotten who you are talking to. When I am Delegate, any alliances, treaties, military pacts, etc. will be entered into by a consent of the people, not through any backroom deals or strong-arm tactics.

Icing your hands, dear? Is it chocolate icing? ;) Hope you're ok! :hug:
 
I do agree its likely CLT wouldnt mind a puupet governemnt here but i highly doubt they will get it. CLT having a hand in government here would be met with the same anger as gates and equilism are currently being treated to.
 
I think i can state categorically that CLT have not been offered, and will not receive, influence over the government here in TNP in return for assistance they may be giving to restoring the delegacy to democratic control.
 
think i can state categorically that CLT have not been offered, and will not receive, influence over the government here in TNP in return for assistance they may be giving to restoring the delegacy to democratic control.
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Who actually says though "help me out, I'll offer you influence."

Polts, we understand being denied acceptance into the RA in the wake of the Pixiedance affair was upsetting to you. Please check the voting records, but I believe I voted in favor of granting RA status. IIRC given the political climate, it was not an easy choice to make. But I believed then, as I do now, that it was the fair thing to do.
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Hi. That was me and several others. unilateraly. because I was going to be elected Vice Delegate.


I havent seen any IP addresses posted. For the record.



GBM you intrigue me. You call for democracy and as well as inviting in outsiders to force you into the delegacy you also talk about "your delegacy" and "when you are delegate". No elections then?
 
No intrigue here. Just straight-up, get-the-job-done management of the affairs of a post-war region. I anticipate achieving the Delegacy again. It is a goal we are working for to re-establish democracy in the region.

I still recognize the Constitution and Bill of Rights we recently passed as the law of the land. I believe the election schedule we voted on calls for elections in April. So elections we shall have.

I am appreciative of the support we have recieved from around the globe. I had offered Lewis & Clark the opportunity to bi-laterally dismiss foregn troops but he declined to respond. He had no answer because he knows that without Gatesville troops, he has fewer native endorsements than I do.

I know who was here before all this started. I had not exchanged endorsements in weeks, so that L&C could take the Delegate's seat. Once I saw Gatesville troops pouring in, I endorsed and TGed HUNDREDS of TNP nations. That effort has paid off. Without Gatesville, L&C would no longer be Delegate.

Now there have been quite enough oblique accusations of the Government-in-Waiting having made some type of deal in order to gain outside help. I am personally outraged and outraged on behalf of those regions who have been so kind to assist us. Not once has anyone said to me, "We'll help, but only if you'll ______ ." Oh wait, I was asked to send Gatesville packing once I became Delegate, but I fully intend to do that anyway.

Curiously, folks are silent on whether Lewis & Clark offered anything in exchange for Gatesville's support. Our UN votes, perhaps?
 
I'm curious, will you ever reach a point where you just get sick of the elected delegates launching coups and just stay there permanently?

I'm pretty sure Westwind said on their forums that he had promised UN votes, but giving that UN resolutions are so meaningless now; I doubt anyone cares.
 
Romanoffia:
I never blocked anyone from joining the RA and I defy you to prove that I ever did. And when did I ever have the magical powers to do such a thing? :blink:
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You were in the cabinet discussing ways to circumvent the Constitution to deny certain people RA membership, there is the infamous transcript from said cabinet meeting that was quickly removed from public view!! I think Fulhead has a copy of it if you'd like him to post it to refresh your memory?!

GBM, I was never denied RA membership!! Under the reign of Tresville the "old guard" denied a number of people RA membership because they did not like them or felt they did not share their own views on the direction of the region!!
 
Poltsamaa:
GBM, I was never denied RA membership!! Under the reign of Tresville the "old guard" denied a number of people RA membership because they did not like them or felt they did not share their own views on the direction of the region!!
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Hey, I think I remember that.


Oh, wait....that was me! :pinch:
 
Once again Roman, congratulations on an intelligent and reasoned debate. The maturity of your arguements amazes and astounds me.


If Roman is the "GIW"'s leadership and hope, good luck to you
 
Fulhead Land:
Once again Roman, congratulations on an intelligent and reasoned debate. The maturity of your arguements amazes and astounds me.


If Roman is the "GIW"'s leadership and hope, good luck to you
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What the hell are you babbling on about? "GIW"? What the hell is that? What's it stand for? Gibbering Idiot Westinds? Gorillas in Wigs? Grossly Inane Windbags? Pfffft.

My point is that this is just another boring coup by another boring rogue delegate and it's just a matter of time before he blinks and falls. Intellectualizing about thugs is a waste of time. They cannot be reasoned with, they are driven by the need to obtain power at any cost and, in the end, their own arrogance takes them down. All any of us have to do is to sit back and let him crumble.

To be honest with you, I don't spend very much time even thinking about L&C or his rogue delegacy. In fact, I largely ignore him altogether. He will be out of power soon enough once he serves whatever purpose his handlers want him too.

Now excuse me. I'm going to attend to more important matters.
 
Romanoffia:
What the hell are you babbling on about? "GIW"? What the hell is that? What's it stand for? Gibbering Idiot Westinds? Gorillas in Wigs? Grossly Inane Windbags? Pfffft.
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Judging by your recent posts, the latter may have some merit!!
 
Um... If I'm not mistaken, GIW stands for Government in Waiting, which is what you are calling yourselves, Roman.

*chuckles*
 
Darkesia:
Um... If I'm not mistaken, GIW stands for Government in Waiting, which is what you are calling yourselves, Roman.

*chuckles*
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Hehe.

This is all boring and unproductive. Discussion is entirely useless and no progress will be made until L&C is removed. He is a jackass.
 
Yes.... Its only a matter of time before Gatesville realizes their attempt is futile, pulls out, and GBM retakes the delegacy.

So in the meantime, let's simply party.
 
What the hell are you babbling on about? "GIW"? What the hell is that? What's it stand for? Gibbering Idiot Westinds? Gorillas in Wigs? Grossly Inane Windbags? Pfffft.

My point is that this is just another boring coup by another boring rogue delegate and it's just a matter of time before he blinks and falls. Intellectualizing about thugs is a waste of time. They cannot be reasoned with, they are driven by the need to obtain power at any cost and, in the end, their own arrogance takes them down. All any of us have to do is to sit back and let him crumble.

To be honest with you, I don't spend very much time even thinking about L&C or his rogue delegacy. In fact, I largely ignore him altogether. He will be out of power soon enough once he serves whatever purpose his handlers want him too.

Now excuse me. I'm going to attend to more important matters.
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This is all boring and unproductive. Discussion is entirely useless and no progress will be made until L&C is removed. He is a jackass
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GIW- Gov. In Waiting. Get pillows.

For someone who spends no time thinking about this you spend an awful lot of time and precious amounts of server space ranting in a boring confused way about it.

I dont suppose you would understand why intellectualising about anything is not a waste of time as you appear at least inneffective at it but at least try and raise your game above "LOLZ Westwind is stoopid". Your a grown man Roman, not the 12 year old you act like.
 
Blue Wolf II:
Poltsamaa:
GBM, I was never denied RA membership!! Under the reign of Tresville the "old guard" denied a number of people RA membership because they did not like them or felt they did not share their own views on the direction of the region!!
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Hey, I think I remember that.


Oh, wait....that was me! :pinch:
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I think there was a pretty legitimate reason to try and deny individuals who played invaders membership RA status. Your current actions seemed to have justified this.

I mean, if you consider "players whose game rules are literally the opposite of the stated goals of TNP as a defender" as people who didn't share their own views on the direction of the region, I think that it would be pretty legitimate. It would be like denying Osama Bin Laden US citizenship.
 
Southwest Asia:
Blue Wolf II:
Poltsamaa:
GBM, I was never denied RA membership!! Under the reign of Tresville the "old guard" denied a number of people RA membership because they did not like them or felt they did not share their own views on the direction of the region!!
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Hey, I think I remember that.


Oh, wait....that was me! :pinch:
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I think there was a pretty legitimate reason to try and deny individuals who played invaders membership RA status. Your current actions seemed to have justified this.

I mean, if you consider "players whose game rules are literally the opposite of the stated goals of TNP as a defender" as people who didn't share their own views on the direction of the region, I think that it would be pretty legitimate. It would be like denying Osama Bin Laden US citizenship.
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A fairly accurate assessment.

All in all, Legitimate Government is what I call us.

Personally, I think sitting back and partying until Gatesville decides they are wasting their time propping up L&C is the best course. Biz as usually. The weather will change and the pests will die off with the climate change.

It always happens. Everyone knows it. Why do they insist on this fools errand of trying to go rogue every so often? :lol:

This windbag is going to the fridge for another beer. Guinness Stout to be exact. I expect that L&C and his Crimson Dysentery will have been purged from the region like the Evacuation of Corrinth (google that term sometime - a WWI expression. :P ) before too long.
 
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