Announcement from the Delegate

This message repeated in the NPO Embassy thread.

It has come to our attention that a few ADMINless TNP political lackeys desire a position statement from the NPO concerning the internal mess in TNP.  Despite its unenlightened, barbaric state, TNP is a sister feeder.  Because of this one redeeming quality, the Glorious Emperor Bovinus I wills a statement be made on his behalf.



The situation in The North Pacific is a result of the blasphemous and heretical worship of a monstrous labrynth document and the false political system it enshrines.  The Pacific people will continue to hope for the enlightenment of the people in our sister feeder in the North.  Until that bright day when TNP finds its way to ADMIN and his Holy FAQ, these internal thrashings are of no consequence.


Executive summary:

We don't care.
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Darkesia:

The Foreign Minister of the West has an "Executive Summary" for the NPO in regards to the North's "situation."

But out of courtesy and good taste he will not repeat it here. It is hardly productive to call one of the jewels your government jealously covets as an addition to your crown, barbaric.

In point of fact, perhaps a studied, continued indifference might be best from the NPO.

Regards,

Sir Geoffrey A. Gosford; KGCB, KGCMG
Prime Minister of Schwarzchild
Foreign Minister, The West Pacific
 
Schwarzchild:
Darkesia:

It is hardly productive to call one of the jewels your government jealously covets as an addition to your crown, barbaric.
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:rofl: (Thank you for the giggle)

Which part of "We don't care" did you misinterpret, my barbaric Western cousin? I will only be too happy to help with the translation. It is important to me that all be given a fair chance to understand our Glorious Emperor's will. Afterall, his will is the Will of ADMIN.
 
Just to head things off, perhaps spats between our honourable colleagues from the West and from the Pacific may be conducted elsewhere?
 
:rofl:

No resolution needed. I find the comments by the NPO representative laughable, but pursuit of further commentary is not my desire, I think their arrogance speaks volumes and I do not need to further clarify my opinion.

Thank you for you kindness, Monte.

~S
 
Message reposted from the Equilism Embassy thread...

Equilism Statement Regarding the Events in The North Pacific

The Foreign Affairs Chancellory of The Realm of Equilism has been monitoring the unfolding events in The North Pacific with concern for our friends and neighbors.  It is our long-held belief that all regions have the right to self-determination without outside interference in their internal affairs.  However, it is also true that the events in great regions such as TNP can affect and concern regions throughout NationStates.

Our greatest concern is for the well-being of the people of TNP, and the stability of the region.  And it is our true hope, that all parties concerned in the current situation will place the best interests of the region above personal agendas.  Our own experience has taught us that there are times when a region must come together and overcome strong differences in order to create a new path that leads to a rejuvenated future.  We fail ourselves when we don't change and adjust to new realities and situations.

It has always been Equilism's policy to support the legitimate government of any given region, and we will not depart from that policy in this situation.  We support the constitutionally elected government of The North Pacific.

We also recognize that a constitution must serve the region it is written for.  A region should not suffer to serve a constitution.  When a time comes that a Constitution becomes a burden, rather than an enabler of activity and progress, it is time to seriously consider what needs to be done in order to ensure the viability of the government and the vitality of the region.

It is encouraging to us that the Prime Minister and UN Delegate have engaged in discussions concerning the situation, rather than moving to an immediate state of all-out civil war.  The North Pacific has particularly suffered through too many delegate/government crises in its long history.  Open and frank discussions among the concerned parties will hopefully lead to a new and bright future for the region.

We have also taken notice of the deployment of troops from Gatesville into TNP.  We are not aware of any specific or official requests for military support from any authority within the region, and look forward to the quick withdrawal of our friends in Gatesville from TNP, in order to de-escalate an already difficult situation.  We know that Gatesville has a long history itself of supporting the right of self-determination in the internal affairs of each and every region.

In conclusion, Equilism supports The North Pacific, and wishes only the best for the present and the future of all.  Times such as these are very difficult, and bring out strong emotions on all sides.  We hope that a mutually amicable resolution will leave TNP a stronger region than before.  If there is any way in which we may be of assistance to the region in securing stability, we would be honored to be of help.

Equilism Foreign Affairs Chancellory
21st Day of July 2007

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Executive Summary of The Monarch:

Short version:  We love you guys. Stop fighting.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
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1) I am still sorting out how I feel about Dalimbars recent actions. I must admit I share his feelings. I have taken a back seat in TNP not because I dislike the region or most of the people here, but because things have grown idle more and more by the day and things seem to take forever to actualize.

I am not bashing our 'democracy', and democracy and freedom of speech and action are important qualities. But, when they start to kill off activity because we have created a bloated beaurocracy then we need to examine the state of our affairs.

2) Occasionally extreme actions are need to waken folks up from their malaise. Calling in Gatesville was probably a bad move. Did anyone who was in opposition to Dalimbar's move call in reinforcements to support the vice delegate and depose Dalimbar? Just asking.

3) What has happened since UK and Dalimbar wrote the joint statement? Has any headway been made?

- Bhagavan
 
Mum, it's obvious you skipped during your Invading classes. For shame.

Absolute power in any region rests solely with the Delegate. The concept of rule by consent of the people is outmoded, and exactly what is causing the stagnation of Nationstates.
 
Byardkuria:
Mum, it's obvious you skipped during your Invading classes. For shame.

Absolute power in any region rests solely with the Delegate. The concept of rule by consent of the people is outmoded, and exactly what is causing the stagnation of Nationstates.
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I actually agree with Byard on this one. ^_^

While the UN delegate may not have power here on the forum due to the lack of admin power. In NS his power is supreme and cannot decide who stays and who gets ejected,
 
NS life-lessons have proved that invaders and rogues often suffer from two fatal flaws. The first is how to answer the question, "Now what?" If that question happens to be addressed with some sort of top-down solution, the NIH resistance is inevitable.

Now, who gets to pick the next Delegate?
 
Joshua:
Byardkuria:
Mum, it's obvious you skipped during your Invading classes.  For shame.

Absolute power in any region rests solely with the Delegate.  The concept of rule by consent of the people is outmoded, and exactly what is causing the stagnation of Nationstates.
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I actually agree with Byard on this one. ^_^
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Wow, if only I agreed with Byard we'd be in business.
 
Joshua:
While the UN delegate may not have power here on the forum due to the lack of admin power. In NS his power is supreme and cannot decide who stays and who gets ejected,
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The Delegate's power is not supreme, his power is only for as long as he has the influence to wield it.
 
I would like to hear an update on the current status of discussions between Dali and UK. It might be helpful to keep some momentum towards activity around here. Communication is a wonderful thing. :P

The gameplay reality is that the Delegate is the highest authority in the region. Anything beyond that must be with the consent of the delegate.

I don't think it should be too difficult to put together a working system to get things going again. Both 'sides' should be working towards a common goal in the best interests of TNP.
 
For the cease fire to continue, we need a Delegate willing to handover power. The peaceful handover of power is the true testament of any democracy. If anything, we need new ministers to enact the real changes that are needed;if any.
 
The silence is really killing me. I think a statement from UK or Dali stating we're still in discussions would suffice.

I'm sure there is plenty going on, I'm (the rest of us) just not aware of it.

There will always be a chance a delegate goes rogue. If you make a completely powerless one as we have in TNP that chance goes up greatly. I really believe we need to restructure our government so that the Delegate has real authority within the government because he/she is the ONLY authority within the game. If we do that, then I believe it mitigates the risk of rogue delegates because they have something to do other than casting UN votes an ejecting the garden variety invader or two.
 
punk-d, the history of tThe North Pacific would suggest otherwise.

Change in the structure of the region should never br brought about by blackmail, which i what Dalimbar is trying to do.

Our system rquires a brad consensus for constitutional change or modification, and it is telling that in his six months as Delegate, Galimbr never made one proposal for amending the Constitution in the Regional Assembly. Since he never attempted to do so, he does not hae the high road to stand on now. Nor does he have the low road, because he violated his oath to region in acting as he did.

I have ried to say as little as possible, because if I hadn't, the rant I'd be posing would be the longest post in the history of the region. Suffice it to say that I am p***ed off at Dalimbar over his actions, and i is going to ake a hell of a lot to persuade me otherwise.

Meanwhile, I have some real life work to finish before Monday, and i would like to be able to enjoy my birthday tomorrow without getting p***ed off all over again.
 
I think that UK said something about having spotty power sometime ago. With the flooding in the UK and all, I guess we must urge patience, even if we're getting more and more impatient.
 
Grosseschnauzer:
punk-d, the history of tThe North Pacific would suggest otherwise.

Change in the structure of the region should never br brought about by blackmail, which i what Dalimbar is trying to do.

Our system rquires a brad consensus for constitutional change or modification, and it is telling that in his six months as Delegate, Galimbr never made one proposal for amending the Constitution in the Regional Assembly. Since he never attempted to do so, he does not hae the high road to stand on now. Nor does he have the low road, because he violated his oath to region in acting as he did.

I have ried to say as little as possible, because if I hadn't, the rant I'd be posing would be the longest post in the history of the region. Suffice it to say that I am p***ed off at Dalimbar over his actions, and i is going to ake a hell of a lot to persuade me otherwise.

Meanwhile, I have some real life work to finish before Monday, and i would like to be able to enjoy my birthday tomorrow without getting p***ed off all over again.
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Consensus, democracy, and a say in regional happenings is great. But, the last thing we need to engage is a large, cumbersome, and time consuming process for bring about regional changes that need to happen. I would bet that most if not half the people here feel to some degree that the government has become bloated and sluggish in the way it gets things done.

The last thing folks wish to deal with is a sluggish and large bureaucratic machine. It puts people off from getting involved. People get impatient, then bored and then stop coming around.

Don't get rid of the democracy, just improve and streamline our system as soon as possible.
 
A system not developed in a democraic deliberative and open manner, such as throug election of the current offfices, and the Regional Assembly, would require a dictatorship, and I promise you, such a course would be entirely unacceptable to the majority of the region.

he constitution were have here is the most-openly pro-democracy document even used to govern a region in Nationstates. Whatever the motives of others for wanting something else, it does not appear that having an open democratic system is among them. I note that none of them have put anything forward, and I'm not inclined to do it for them.

If I were to suggest anything it would be to undo the mischief caused by eliminaing the register voters as a distinct group outside of the RA. I still believe that the assignment of responsibility as it originally existed when he came out of the Constitutional Convntion worked better and crayed less problems than the "merger." I didn't support the merger when it was proposed by hersfold, and I feel that change was a mistake, I would love to see it reverted back to the prior separation.
 
The Constitution has failed us, Grosseschnauzer, democracy itself has failed The North. Surely even you must be able to see that now, although you choose to deny it.
 
I am no great expert on your region, Grosse. I won't even pretend it. No sermon upcoming, just the observation of a friendly person on the outside looking in and NOT in my official capacity.

It is clear that a number of people, while supporting democracy in your deliberative processes here, think that the exceptional amount of law and the enormous size of your Constitution is hurting your region's ability to govern in a responsive way. They have an excellent point.

I will support the eventual peaceful (hopefully) resolution of this matter as a private citizen as a matter of trust, but I think you do yourself and your region a grave disservice by denying the lack of flexibility and excessive bureacracy the North currently exhibits.

Do not compromise on the concept of democratic governance. But you need to seriously consider getting rid of some of your bureacratic excesses. Your unwillingness to even concede that a goodly number of your problems here are the result of rampant overlegislation and the bloat of large bureacracy, does you and your government serious harm.

It has always been my hope to see Feeders thrive and enjoy cooperative, mutually beneficial relationships. So...consider...

The document does not come before the people, the document serves the people. If it does not do so, then change is needed.

Most respectfully,

~S
 
Schwarzchild that is how many of us feel, at least that is my hunch.

We cannot use scapegoats and elections to cure our problems. Dalimbar is not the reason we have no activity in our forum. The problem is rooted much deeper then that and you know that Grosse. Grosse your denial of the fact that our system has failed and needs revamping is exactly one of the symptoms of our ailments. Lack of will to except and remedy our problems.

I saw this with the trial of Mesian.

You cannot keep jamming the circle into the square hole and hope that it will fit one day. You cannot keep doing the same things and expect a different outcome. Things just do not work that way.

As I said I support democracy, but when democracy becomes a huge, bloated bureaucracy that is choking our activity levels and is causing folks to feel bitter then I say we have some problems to deal with. Problems that a simple election will not fix and make them go away like they never, ever happened.

- Joshua
 
OK, has anything interesting happened since this all kicked off?

I tried reading the thread, but a got bored about 5 pages in.
 
Let's be clear I do not support and will never advocate anything that is not a democratic government in which the ultimate and final power is vested in the people. Period. A delegate-centric system has failed The North Pacific too many times, and I am not willing or prepared to support a regression back to those sorts of failures.

The Constitution has provided over two years of stability which is more than anyone can say about the two years that preceded it.

And given the total lack of leadership and follow-through from Dalimbar in support of his ill-conceived plan, it will end up being the government, under the COnstitution, that will end up being the means and mechanics of resolving this situation.

(And I do find it interesting that it is those who dislike democracy to begin or who just like to meddle in other people's business with that have been the strongest supporters of Dalimbar's ill conceived plan.)
 
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