Announcement from the Delegate

Flem and I were discussing how the great summer weather had apparently drawn a great crowd into his nice lounge known as "#tnp";
  1. Eras|away
  2. flemingovia
  3. Gaspo`afk
  4. LV[away]
  5. Neenee
  6. Agamemgone
  7. Buuyo
  8. Dali|away
  9. Darth-Zorn
  10. Eluvatar
  11. Isimud
  12. Jasque
  13. Korinna
  14. Limi|away
  15. meri
  16. Moo-Cows
  17. TGR
  18. Thyatira
  19. Wurzak
 
Well the North is fairly cold, relatively speaking. I hear a Typhoon is coming though, that should heat things up.
 
:ph34r:

I wish to note that I am always in the #tnp lounge; I did not just appear for this small spike on the horizon. And I, too, would prefer a date after the release of the Harry Potter book. God knows at the rate this is going it will be more interesting.
 
Hmm, how about Dali changes things around here a bit. The North Pacific will become Hogwarts. He'll be Dumbledore. Fulhead can be Doby. Gross Hermoine. FEC that kid that everyone likes but was only in 30 minutes of one of the installments.
 
TAO sees from the big Alert thingy at the top of the forum that TNP has decided to enter into a civil war instead of trying to negotiate through the problems.

TWP did the same thing when Eli took over ... with disastrous effects and hard feelings (even in RL) which lasted for months. This is really a pathetic turn of events and the path will only lead to frustration and hardship for the region. TAO had hoped the players pushing this idiocy would have learned from TWP's problems and example why this is such a dumb-F!SH idea. Even if it creates the DRAMA we all crave (and have been lacking in the game for months).
 
This is really a pathetic turn of events and the path will only lead to frustration and hardship for the region.
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But the red on blue does create a very pretty contrast of colours.

I'm still wondering why there are members of The West Pacific here who are (if not supporting) then advocating living with an illegal delegate. I also thought it was bad form to pass such blunt criticism of a way a government chooses to function. Personally I think it's a good move, even if it only shows that the Council are willing to attempt to act against a rogue Delegate if needs be.
 
Actually TAO is simply advocating that players try to do the "TNP unthinkable" ... realize that extreme actions will bring extreme consequences and try to stave off going to extremes.

Personally, TAO doesn't care how stupid TNP becomes (again ... this time). TAO just hates that these extremist actions will cause extremist events and end up involving every feeder.

And The West Pacific is wondering why The North Pacific can't see the slippery slope it is on and how these extreme actions will cause much un-game-ness. We in TWP thought that those in TNP ... cared ... to hear the opinions of others. But you prove that idea wrong, NC.
 
TAO:
Actually TAO is simply advocating that players try to do the "TNP unthinkable" ... realize that extreme actions will bring extreme consequences and try to stave off going to extremes.
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You do think too badly of us, I think. :(

Personally, TAO doesn't care how stupid TNP becomes (again ... this time).  TAO just hates that these extremist actions will cause extremist events and end up involving every feeder.
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But, but...our undying love! :cry:

And The West Pacific is wondering why The North Pacific can't see the slippery slope it is on and how these extreme actions will cause much un-game-ness. We in TWP thought that those in TNP ... cared ...  to hear the opinions of others.  But you prove that idea wrong, NC.
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Uh, for the record, NC is here from the Merit.

Heh, I guess it's time for me to urge our foreign guests to be patient with us. :P
 
Eluvatar:
mr_sniffles:
way to alleviate our paranoia over a rogue delegate  :headbang:

You've been trouble since the start Dali. You need to go.
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Nothing but trouble from the start?? :tb1:
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He tried to illegally ban BWII when he announced the creation of the LWU North "for the greater good" and all that. Obviously a symptom of someone who thinks he's above petty little things like democracy, the law, and hell anyone but him.
 
mr_sniffles:
Eluvatar:
mr_sniffles:
way to alleviate our paranoia over a rogue delegate  :headbang:

You've been trouble since the start Dali. You need to go.
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Nothing but trouble from the start?? :tb1:
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He tried to illegally ban BWII when he announced the creation of the LWU North "for the greater good" and all that. Obviously a symptom of someone who thinks he's above petty little things like democracy, the law, and hell anyone but him.
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Tried to?

Sorry if I sound, like MO, like a Dali apologist here, but if he "tried" BW would have landed in the RR XD
 
Well as Speaker, you can just check the threads on it yourself in the old Cabinet and SC archives. It should still be there under BWII or LWU North or something.
People had to step in and I threatened to serve the papers to court to have him indicted myself.

I just think it's another clear example of belligerence. (If you can't tell I'm obviously aiming for a position in his new government.)
 
TAO:
(If you can't tell I'm obviously aiming for a position in his new government.)
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:rofl: Now THIS is someone who is willing to listen.
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Sure I could kiss ass but there's nothing like extortion and blackmail!

And trust me, this isn't all I got! You know I still got the negatives from that night Dali...
 
Some Delegates were deemed heroes for banning nations from the region without trial or Constitutional grounds!! How times change!! Or rather, how interpretations change!! ;)
 
mr_sniffles:
Well as Speaker, you can just check the threads on it yourself in the old Cabinet and SC archives. It should still be there under BWII or LWU North or something.
People had to step in and I threatened to serve the papers to court to have him indicted myself.

I just think it's another clear example of belligerence. (If you can't tell I'm obviously aiming for a position in his new government.)
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No I know the threads. I'm arguing semantics.

He did not "try" to do so; he indicated intent to do so and was dissuaded from doing so.

If he had actually "tried" he would have done it. It's that simple with the UN delegacy.

That's just my personal opinion of how the UN system works.
 
Blah...blah...blah

Different site...Different time...Same rogue actions.

I guess it's time to get out my old NPU/NPC T-shirts.


Seriously, I think we really need to see what's going down. I have always and will always contend that a paper delegate only lasts as long as that paper delegate is willing to remain the same. I thought it ridiculous to make the TNP delegate some figurehead boob and while it took 2 years for (another) one to go rogue this was bound to happen because of how the constitution was established. If Flem would be delegate of TNP for life, ok you could have a figurehead...but the Democratic bent of this region opposes such long term stability...err...I mean, well I hope you know what I mean....

In any event, I want a reason why I should defend a stagnant constitution without first hearing about something new Dali may propose???
 
I have to agree. The governments we create need to recognize the realities of NS gameplay. The delegate has the inherent power of regional control. To deny that is foolish. To legislate it away via a constitution just doesn't work.
 
Please excuse me while I :rofl: at your little "hero" gag, Sniffles. I don't deny I indicated an irrational desire to see that nation (can't remember if it was BW or another, feel free to check for me as I can't obviously see my own posts anymore) be removed from the region. You weren't in the most rational state of mind either, if I recall. Probably would have chewed my leg off if I gave you the chance. However, I was committed (and still am) to defending the region. Yet, please, answer me this: Why was I re-elected without any opposition if I was such a boogyman from the start?
 
Lewis and Clark:
I have to agree. The governments we create need to recognize the realities of NS gameplay. The delegate has the inherent power of regional control. To deny that is foolish. To legislate it away via a constitution just doesn't work.
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Sounds like something I said 2 years ago!! :o

I too would like to hear what Dalimbar has to say before the thought-police shuffle him of to the gulags!!
 
Dalimbar:
Yet, please, answer me this: Why was I re-elected without any opposition if I was such a boogyman from the start?
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Excellent point! Frankly, that election bothered me at the time. I had nothing against you, Dal, but one-person elections bother me in principle.
 
Actually TAO is simply advocating that players try to do the "TNP unthinkable" ... realize that extreme actions will bring extreme consequences and try to stave off going to extremes. 

Personally, TAO doesn't care how stupid TNP becomes (again ... this time).  TAO just hates that these extremist actions will cause extremist events and end up involving every feeder.
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I don't understand how when I accidentally become Delegate, the WPLF pile in but when our Delegate goes rogue all we are 'stupid' for trying to get our region back. Well it is quite clear that although Dalimbar, although prepared to work with members of the old government, he does not want to work with the government. So what are we supposed to do? Just abandon the region and what it stands for?

Yet, please, answer me this: Why was I re-elected without any opposition if I was such a boogyman from the start?
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Delegates rarely get voted out in their second term because of the difficulties that Delegate handovers create.
 
QUOTE (Fulhead Land @ Jul 17 2007, 10:07 AM)
I believe its an old old wooden ship from the civil war era 


I do love that film 
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and you sir are my new best friend!



Though I refuse to play the house elf. Taht one anyway. I'll play Kreetcher the bitter twisted evil one mind...

RE: The statement...no criminal charges? There was a time when I, BW, a few others couldnt use an apostrophe without being charged as traitors! Not charging someone who blatantly disobeyed the law? Pfft.


On Dali himself.. still no plan. I do wonder if he'll ban FEC when she reaches him..

Either way worst.rogue.ever.

I personally think if we're going to go for activity lets either go to the matresses and fight him, or with him if he decides to do something and you feel so inclined.
 
Emperor Matthuis:
Actually TAO is simply advocating that players try to do the "TNP unthinkable" ... realize that extreme actions will bring extreme consequences and try to stave off going to extremes. 

Personally, TAO doesn't care how stupid TNP becomes (again ... this time).  TAO just hates that these extremist actions will cause extremist events and end up involving every feeder.
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I don't understand how when I accidentally become Delegate, the WPLF pile in but when our Delegate goes rogue all we are 'stupid' for trying to get our region back. Well it is quite clear that although Dalimbar, although prepared to work with members of the old government, he does not want to work with the government. So what are we supposed to do? Just abandon the region and what it stands for?
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That was before my time as Delegate/First Minister. I may not have intervened since you are such a loyal regional player and the big chair was not in any real danger from outside influences.

But how are you attempting to "get our region back"? By fomenting civil war? By forcing Dali to either look like a fool by forcing him into quiet resignation or look like a fool by forcing him into a purge? Who suffers in these events and who benefits?

Punk is correct about the eventual outcome inherent with a constitutional paper delegate figurehead. TWP did the same thing once ... the separation of powers to the point of ignoring the game's mechanics. Onsite and Offsite powers/balances have to be in place if you are looking for a truly playable model of government. TAO just doesn't see where a figurehead delegate and a constitution which takes longer to read than Gone with the Wind equals a balanced approach to governmental stability. Without some serious constitutional dialogue and even some serious constitutional change, TNP will continue to have this same problem with its delegate ... unless Flem is elected for life.
 
:lol: because Dali saving face is the most important thing.



Anyone else think that after the last TWP dictatorship collapsed in about 14 minutes they are out of practise? :lol:
 
But how are you attempting to "get our region back"? By fomenting civil war? By forcing Dali to either look like a fool by forcing him into quiet resignation or look like a fool by forcing him into a purge? Who suffers in these events and who benefits?
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What other options do we have? Negotiation doesn't seem likely, if there's a better way then we haven't found it yet. Like I said do you seriously expect the government to just resign and give-up? Is that what TAO would do if there was another coup in the West?

Punk is correct about the eventual outcome inherent with a constitutional paper delegate figurehead. TWP did the same thing once ... the separation of powers to the point of ignoring the game's mechanics. Onsite and Offsite powers/balances have to be in place if you are looking for a truly playable model of government. TAO just doesn't see where a figurehead delegate and a constitution which takes longer to read than Gone with the Wind equals a balanced approach to governmental stability. Without some serious constitutional dialogue and even some serious constitutional change, TNP will continue to have this same problem with its delegate ... unless Flem is elected for life.
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The system worked fine with every other Delegate since Pixiedance.
 
Poltsamaa:
Lewis and Clark:
I have to agree.  The governments we create need to recognize the realities of NS gameplay.  The delegate has the inherent power of regional control.  To deny that is foolish.  To legislate it away via a constitution just doesn't work.
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Sounds like something I said 2 years ago!! :o

I too would like to hear what Dalimbar has to say before the thought-police shuffle him of to the gulags!!
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Yes, I do seem to recall that as well. I have no problem saying that I was on the wrong side of that arguement previously. Time, circumstances, and experience have proven the importance of delegate authority.
 
What other options do we have? Negotiation doesn't seem likely, if there's a better way then we haven't found it yet. Like I said do you seriously expect the government to just resign and give-up? Is that what TAO would do if there was another coup in the West?
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You have the option of coming to the table and acting like statesmen, oops. I forgot, you actually WANT to be delegate and it is not in your best interest to say otherwise. Be cautious of what you say and where, things actually get around.

The system worked fine with every other Delegate since Pixiedance.
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Worked fine?

You have a Constitution, that by itself exceeds the length of all of the Constitution, Legal Code, Judicial Code, Vivacation, and rules of Senate Procedure in the West. Surely you do not say this is HEALTHY? It strikes me that your answer to problems instead of solving them, is to add to the Constitution.

By the actions you take, you had to have accepted the possibility of a bloodbath in which whomever is left standing was so weakened by the battle for the delegacy that they could not adequately defend the North. Who would be left? Haor Chall, Minnow? You? A Truckler? Ator People, another Minnow. Odd that the three of you, the weakest Influence people are screaming the loudest for this action. The raiders must indeed be licking the chops at your naivete.

So here you three stand.

HC- 220 Minnow (+3)
EM- 120 Truckler(+28)
AP- 75 (+14)
= +45

The rest of your list, responsible, capable and wise citizens of the North are a composite +5. Except for UWSS who is at +21.

For all of this fury and screaming, Chodean Kal is at a -5 for 334 endos

The numbers speak volumes Matthuis. This is a slow motion civil war.

~S
 
doze.jpg
 
:lol: Flem FTW.

I'm afraid I don't have Flem's wit, so:

Schwarzchild. No, I don't feel like being diplomatic or statesmen-like, as you are talking out of your anus. Go away.
 
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