World War Looming?

Hersfold

Hersfold

TNPer
I just recieved (and sent the following reply) to Posul:
Hello there Prime Minister, I am Posul, but I speak to you in a different sense today. I am officially representing the ACCEL and unofficially the Meritocracy aswell.

The NPO have been getting a little bit big for their boots at the moment as far as we can see. They have tried to rattle, the ACCEL, the Meritocracy, TWP and we can see that you have had some problems with them aswell.

I and others believe that we have to start getting some form of loose coalition to help make sure that we don't lose out here. Independently we are much weaker, but if we back each other up and work together on a co-ordinated diplomatic plan of action. We can help to curb some the NPO.

I am of course eager for your reply.

Yours,

Posul
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Posul:

Thank you for contacting me concerning this matter. At the moment, we don't really consider the NPO to be much of a threat - Pierconium is known for talking with more assertion than he actually has the power to back up.

I will present your proposal to the Cabinet and see what they have to say on the matter. Such a decision is too much for one person to make, and unfortunately it will probably have to be ratified by the Regional Assembly if we do end up agreeing to this. If your intentions are to keep this quiet, I would not recommend including us in the loop. I hope to talk to you again soon.

The United Federation of Hersfold
Prime Minister of The North Pacific
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That response does not really reflect my opinions on this "alliance" - it was specifically intended to be wishy-washy so we could discuss this without getting his hopes up.

This sounds potentially dangerous to me. If we do engage in an alliance against the NPO, things could begin spiralling downhill even faster than they already are. If they're all worried about the Pacific Army, what is their reaction going to be when they hear that the Merit, ACCEL, and possibly a feeder have stepped up against them?

But then at the same time, our relations are already beginning to suffer - largely through no fault of our own, but if the NPO is willing to make threats against us (requests, as Pierconium is calling them), do we need to protect ourselves? The ADN is practially gone now - we didn't recieve a bit of help in the recent Utopian Islands liberation, despite repeated assurances that we would get it. The RLA is still in existance, and we do technically have a pact with them, but it's only one remaining ally - will they be enough to hold off the combined forced of the NPO and Gatesville? Or do we need to start looking for more allies simply for our own well-being?

This is seeming strangely familiar to World War I - nations (regions) forming alliances to protect each other, with only a simple spark needed to set them off into war. What I want to know is: who's going to be Archduke Ferdinand?
 
mmm... I have no desire to join an organization that invited the NPO to join them and then backed away from that. You *really* want to see the NPO get their knickers in a twist?

Do I think we could withstand the NPO and Gatesville attacking us? Probably as much as they could withstand the opposite. However, I believe that TP has no intention of attacking us. I don't think happy/cozy relations are in our future, but we're not considered a threat to them in any way. Joining two groups that are on the NPO's shit list.... NOT a good idea
 
That the ACCEL is on the NPO's shitlist is irrelivent in my eyes. What is important is that the ACCEL itself is an imperialist organization (look at their actions in the West) that is also in a constant state of tension with our allies in the RLA.

I believe Dalimbar is looking for a stronger unification of the democratic Pacifics. We could also seek alliances with some powerful, trustworthy UCRs. This sounds better than the ACCEL.

What is more of a concern than a direct military attack is a coup. We should watch our next delegate election with vigilence and not allow a random newbie to run unchallenged a la UPS Rail. Anyway, the more allies we have, the higher our chances would be to take the region back from a rogue delegate.

As far as Gatesville is concerned, they will never attack a sitting delegate. What they will do is recognize the legitimacy and defend a rogue. We saw it with their Mutual Defense Pact with our friends at the NPD...
 
The region "Pacific Army" that Perc is having a hissy fit over is nothing more than a handful of nations and a puppet warehouse. It's no threat to anyone from what I know. I think it's just a pawn in some kind of NPO scheme to instigate troubles - just around election time.

I think it wise to be neutral and not get involved in any kind of alliances that may result in us being required to engage in anything other than defending ourselves or defending others acting in self defense.

The WWI analogy is apropopriate here.
 
I think joining such an alliance will make war inevitable, creating two large opposing power bases. Some might think this is needed since the disintegration of the ADN but I think peace is a much more worthy cause. Like it or not Moldavi now runs the Pacific, which given the circumstances better the devil we know.

I'm against joining such an alliance and think Dalimbar's proposal of creating more dialogue with the democratic feeders will be more worthwhile.
 
mr_sniffles:
I think joining such an alliance will make war inevitable, creating two large opposing power bases. Some might think this is needed since the disintegration of the ADN but I think peace is a much more worthy cause. Like it or not Moldavi now runs the Pacific, which given the circumstances better the devil we know.

I'm against joining such an alliance and think Dalimbar's proposal of creating more dialogue with the democratic feeders will be more worthwhile.
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All things considered, IMHO, it would be immensely more preferable to maintain peaceful relations with other feeder regions and avoid hostilities.

Given that Pacific Army is not really a threat to The Pacific, perhaps we could intercede and broker a deal that would satisfy all parties - the NPO, Pacific Army and those of us who believe in not sacrificing diplomatic channels with anyone?

Here's the idea:

If we could convince Pacific Army to make a clear statement that they have no intent of engaging in hostile acts with The Pacific, it would defuse the entire situation as the NPO would have no claims of a hostile Pacific Army.

The logic is simple - given that Pacific Army does not have the capability to inflice even the slightest damage to The Pacific, there should be no reason why Pacific Army shouldn't make a public statement renouncing any hostile stance to The Pacific or its ruling party, the NPO.

This puts an end to the whole matter. The NPO can untwist its knickers and we all can live happily ever after.

R
 
The PA actually posted a statement in our Consolate early this morning. Nobody noticed I guess:

The Pacific Army regrets the actions taken by the New Pacific Order over the past week regarding our consulate and embassy in the North Pacific and West Pacific, respectively. It disturbs us not only that the NPO has sought to isolate us from greater Nationstates, but also that their tactics include coercion and intimidation. We hope that in the future the NPO will be more tolerant of us as well as the sovereignty of the other feeders.

The Pacific Army remains committed to communicating with as many regions of possible. Because of this, we are more than happy to open relations with those who also have relations with the NPO. Since it is of no concern to us whether or not a region has relations with the NPO, we wonder why the NPO will not make a similar effort to coexist. Pierconium insists that it is our goal to overthrow his delegacy. However, times have changed. The general membership of the Pacific Army is now comprised largely of newer nations with little knowledge or concern about the Pacific. It is sad to us that the NPO has resorted to conjecture about game glitches and other what-if's to explain their dislike of us, while we in fact do not seek to oppose them, but rather to simply defend.

We hope this ordeal with the NPO is over and that we can get back to what we love most: defending. We would also like to thank the governments of the North and West Pacifics for their patience during these times. Thank you.
 
Tiberius and Caligula. Can you see the similarities in the NPO?

I say we just ignore the rantings of their 'emporer' and his manifold personae and watch the NPO self destruct in an orgy of egomaniacal paranoiac splendor.

R
 
So true.

Does anybody else find it blissfully ironic that Moldavi might just destroy the NPO unintentionally, and thus fulfill his original purpose given to him by the ADN when he first entered the Pacific? Heh.
 
Indeed. He eventually does it in every region he blights.

R
 
There is little need for us to do something like that. I agree. It is best we simply ignore them, and concentrate with the threats coming from within.

Contrary to blatant and rather irritating accusations that I am a warmonger, what has been stated and proposed is not along the lines of what I had in mind in my own campaign thread. Regardless of how other regions feel about the NPO, we have no relations with them whatsoever, by their own choice, and at this point, no words are good words with them.

And if/when they have something to say about something we're doing, we can point and say "You closed relations with us. We don't care what you have to say, because you do not have the will or honor to maintain proper diplomatic channels with us. This is not our fault, and perhaps when you rebuild that which you destroyed, we could consider your requests in a different light."

If others want to start a conflict with them, let them. In our current position, we can afford to ignore their infantile thrashings.
 
I swear I'm going to tweak soon...

Firstly, a "World War" is one of the most idiotic things I have heard this week. Congrats, you win.

Now, the position I am wanting TNP in is a pacific that is alternative to the NPO. We will be the main pacific region, the one where regions of various ideologies, beliefs, ect ect can go to for relations and we can work together with them. To state this bluntly, I am not entering, unless forced to by a mandate from the Regional Assembly, into any other alliance than a Pacific Community. At this point, that community will not have the NPO or any other representation from The Pacific.

Next, if ACCEL wants relations with us, they will have it. I don't care if NPO doesn't like it, I didn't care that they didn't like it when I allowed PA a consulate. As I say, we are not the NPO, we are our own region.
 
"World War" was just an analogy. I doubt it will actually happen, but you can't help but notice the interesting similarity.

Anyway, it sounds like most of the Cabinet is against joining this alliance thing. I'd have to agree - the disadvantages far outweigh any possible benefits. I'll leave this to sit a couple days in case the NPO goes berzerk, or something else comes up.
 
Just so everyone is up to date, Posul's coalition was leaked by The East Pacific. God only knows why Posul invited them. After much badgering by NPOers, both Meritocrats and non-Senators, Posul resigned his positions in the Meritocracy. Agyres and others convinced him to come back hours later, and he came back. He's running to be the Meritocracy's foreign affairs advocate (they have some Latin name for it, Quester or something). There are accusations of NPO interference in the Merit and increased anti-NPO resentment. It's all very interesting, especially given their huggly relationship with the PRP just a few months ago, heh.
 
John Ashcroft Land:
Just so everyone is up to date, Posul's coalition was leaked by The East Pacific. God only knows why Posul invited them. After much badgering by NPOers, both Meritocrats and non-Senators, Posul resigned his positions in the Meritocracy. Agyres and others convinced him to come back hours later, and he came back. He's running to be the Meritocracy's foreign affairs advocate (they have some Latin name for it, Quester or something). There are accusations of NPO interference in the Merit and increased anti-NPO resentment. It's all very interesting, especially given their huggly relationship with the PRP just a few months ago, heh.
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Sounds like a bloody soap opera. So this basically decides the whole issue for us, then. Any coalition is kaput, not that we were interested anyway.

TNP isn't being attached to this in anyway, is it?
 
John Ashcroft Land:
Just so everyone is up to date, Posul's coalition was leaked by The East Pacific. God only knows why Posul invited them. After much badgering by NPOers, both Meritocrats and non-Senators, Posul resigned his positions in the Meritocracy. Agyres and others convinced him to come back hours later, and he came back. He's running to be the Meritocracy's foreign affairs advocate (they have some Latin name for it, Quester or something). There are accusations of NPO interference in the Merit and increased anti-NPO resentment. It's all very interesting, especially given their huggly relationship with the PRP just a few months ago, heh.
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Like I said, Ivan will bring down the NPO on his very own. He must be wanting to go out with a bang!

Ivan's tactics are lost as a result of the changed game rules and attitudes in the NS world. He's passe and the NPO is going down like a lead balloon by its own hands.




R
 
What I would recommend if you are thinking of bringing them down quickly is to perhaps secretly (definently not such a clear cut "coalition" or whatever) meet with anti-NPO or neutral regions to the NPO regime, and convince them to reconsider even speaking to the NPO. As most of you are aware, the NPO thrives on being attacked, on being recognized as the bad guy, ect. To ignore them is to kill them, which is something we must do.

Though I'm still on sabbatical for a while, heh.
 
So our official External Affairs policy is to sabotage and destroy the NPO?!

And, JAL, is there any statement from Pacific Army recognising the current government in The Pacific as legitimate?!
 
John Ashcroft Land:
I do not believe the PA has an opinion one way or the other as far as legitimacy is concerned.
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ohrly.gif
 
?

Anyway, the whole question of legitimacy raises some interesting questions. Especially considering that the Pacific has refused to recognize the government of the Proletariat Coalition (a friend via embassy and ally via Lion Star Pact) as legitimate. So if we're going to bust the PA's balls about it let's bust the NPO's as well :P
 
John Ashcroft Land:
?

Anyway, the whole question of legitimacy raises some interesting questions. Especially considering that the Pacific has refused to recognize the government of the Proletariat Coalition (a friend via embassy and ally via Lion Star Pact) as legitimate. So if we're going to bust the PA's balls about it let's bust the NPO's as well :P
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I'm not looking to bust anyone's balls, just trying to clarify the PA's brand new stance on the NPO!! Seeing as this was raised in this topic!!

I would have thought you'd be in the know on their stance with regards to the legitimacy of the NPO as government of the Pacific!!

I have asked them in their Embassy, hopefully they can answer the question for me!! I think it is important to know with respect to the revelations you have presented by way of PA announcements!!

The "emoticon" is an "ohrly?" emoticon!!
 
It is ovbious that our IA minister is pro-NPO. Situate your loyalties and reconsider them before I have you recalled for that, and your conduct. You're a government minister and you seriously need to learn how to act like one.

As far as I've seen, and had you been listening, TNP's position is as I have stated, they broke off relations with us, we're ignoring them except on a citizen-by-citizen level.

What, exactly, while in this position, do we care about anyone's legitimacy, much less their relations with a region we have no formal relations with?
 
lol

Fair enough, but I don't think you'll get a different answer out of Levana Liberty. Although I am looking to retire from the PA (actually, my PA nation doesn't even exist anymore...) I was an Officer since its refounding and I can say that the last time the PA seriously considered the Pacific was when the PRP declared Nasicournia to be enemies for opening an embassy with the PA. The topic of legitimacy hasn't come up since I've been an officer IIRC.
 
Cthul Murgos:
It is ovbious that our IA minister is pro-NPO. Situate your loyalties and reconsider them before I have you recalled for that, and your conduct. You're a government minister and you seriously need to learn how to act like one.
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Then recall me or shut up!! Your brainfarts are depleting the Cabinet of precious oxygen!!

As far as I've seen, and had you been listening, TNP's position is as I have stated, they broke off relations with us, we're ignoring them except on a citizen-by-citizen level.
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Who has been talking about TNP, JAL was talking about PA's stance on the NPO/The Pacific!! Perhaps you need to practise what you preach and listen!!
If you are referring to my question to Dalimbar, then read his post, I was merely trying to clarify any official stance TNP may have!! His post seemed a little out of synch with the rest of his posts on the matter!!

What, exactly, while in this position, do we care about anyone's legitimacy, much less their relations with a region we have no formal relations with?
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It is relevant to what JAL said!! If you don't care, ignore it and let me ask what I feel needs to be asked!! You know, freedom of speech and that stuff!! ;)
 
You, oh troll of the cabinet, take a one-line statement and make an arguement out of it. Get back on topic.

As for your recall, don't tempt me. You are ill-suited for your position, and as far as I see, a risk to regional security in it.

Oh and way to go, avoiding my question. FAIL. Answer or shut up yourself.
 
Cthul Murgos:
You, oh troll of the cabinet, take a one-line statement and make an arguement out of it. Get back on topic.

As for your recall, don't tempt me. You are ill-suited for your position, and as far as I see, a risk to regional security in it.

Oh and way to go, avoiding my question. FAIL. Answer or shut up yourself.
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My post was on topic, if answering your question (I saw only one question mark) is going off-topic then you are to blame for that!!

Please go ahead and have me recalled!!

I answered your question in saying I never said anyone cared, I was asking of my own accord to put the PA statements into some context!! Excuse my curiosity!!
 
Deputy Cthul Murgos, you overstep your office. Accusations and flamebait have no place in this forum. If you truly believe the Minister is guilty of treason, gather evidence and post your accusations to the Court.

The legitimacy issue does open up some questions, although we've already accepted the NPO's legitimacy to some degree by allowing them to close the consulate and treating their ultimatum as an official statement.
 
Thanks Boss!! ;)

Anyway, let me just spell this out so we are perfectly clear or at the very least less unclear than it seems we are right now!!

JAL presented comments or statements from PA to show that PA were no longer bothered about the Pacific!! I noticed that the statements did not address whether PA considered the NPO the legitimate government of the Pacific!! You'll note, I'm not mentioning or even referring to TNP's views on the legitimacy of the NPO as government of the Pacific!!

Anyway, the reason I asked the question is because the issue of acknowleging the legitimacy of the NPO as government of the Pacific by PA is a major issue (I believe) between PA and the Pacific!! Therefore, in my opinion, that issue would need to be addressed before I could accept the information JAL was passing on to us as presenting the argument he intended it to present!!

Again, this is my opinion only and the reason I asked the question was to satisfy my own curiousity on the matter!!

I didn't think it was that big of an issue nor that outrageous of a question!! I was not asking TNP to side with the NPO or even side with the PA for that matter!! I was not asking for Dalimbar to change his decision, in fact I have said many times...the NPO made their decision, we made our, it is time to move on!!

Now, I'll consult my defence counsel in relation to pending impeachment proceedings !! :w00t:
 
Hersfold:
:blink: Roman and Polts agree on something??!

ohrly.gif
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We usually do. We only come to the same conclusion from different directions and different motives. :lol:

But seriously, my position is that whatever the NPO does, they can have at it as long as they leave us alone and don't screw around with our region's well-being.

As for a war? What if somebody threw a party war and nobody came? :lol:

R
 
Regarding their policy change, I am interested in rekindling some form of relations with them. I believe Senator Moo-Cows and I will be discussing the issue sometime this evening or tomorrow.

I wish to apologise firstly for any apperent "double-talk" or whatever term you may wish to use. This issue, along with RL concerns, has brought me a bit of stress, and I may have acted, or stated things such as in here in my last post, that I may not have said if I was more relaxed.

Secondly, I wish to apologise to the Cabinet and to the rest of the region for forcing us down this winding road. I fear that whatever foreign policy that I have has more switchbacks than any of the local mountain roads here near my town in Canada, and I hope forgiveness will be achieved...
 
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