Question and Response

Flemingovia

Flemingovia

TNPer
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HEft - When you were elected your stated as your campaign goals (i am summarising):

- To recruit more active people who will stay on.

- to Cement into the NPA a tradition of utmost loyalty to the region and its people,

- to Cultivate and encourage the next generation of TNP Defenders.

- to lay the foundation for a lasting organizational structure, with opportunities and incentives for advancement.

How do you think you are getting on with these?
 
I haven't and won't achieve any of those. Between the holidays hitting and me becoming more and more apathetic towards defending and the NPA, I've now reached the point where I don't really see it as that important. Could I turn the NPA into something that truly is an intregal part of TNP? Probably.

The truth is, I simply don't care enough anymore about this region, this game, or defending to do it. NS is stagnating, and it isn't just the holidays. I joined Dec 04, TNP had well over 7000 nations at the time, and never went below 6000. Yes, the summer saw increased activity, as we actually managed to break the 8000-nation mark for awhile, and some of the drop-off we are experience now is a result of the holidays, but not all of it.

Defending is quite boring, for me. It was fun in the Summer because it was an excuse to talk to people and I had no reason not to stay up. When I came back I was told I wouldn't have to actually stay up and order the NPA around directly that often, that I would have a general to do that. That fell through (I don't hold any grudges against that person, though, as I understand and respect that decision) at about the same time I got elected.

There is a smaller pool of nations to recruit from, a smaller number that care to get active, and less desire within the NPA to really do it.

Maybe TNP should become Imperialistic? Before everyone starts stoning me, listen. I'm not the only person who has considered this, or would support it. It's been thrown out there in private discussion. It would give the NPA a reason for existing other than protecting small, usually worthless regions from people that rarely have any intent to harm the region. How boring and pointless and repetitive does this become? For the many of you who haven't defended, very. Update is at almost 1am for me. It's even worse for East-Coasters and Europeans. I've been told by one nation I was recruiting that (to paraphrase) they weren't going to join because we were just a status quo organization. And it's true.

If I thought that there was someone else who cared more and was willing to do the things I've failed to do with the NPA, I would have given them the opportunity. As it is, I don't see that. If any nations would like the chance, but don't feel they have the knowledge or experience, I could train them. The entire practice is rather simple, and there are others in TNP (not as many as there used to be, but still some) that have plenty of experience in defending and/or invading.

I know this sounds bad, but, that's just to bad. Some people aren't going to be to suprised by it, although I'm sure plenty will be.

Anyway, I'm out of here after this term. Maybe I'm one of those people that thrives on conflict, which TNP no longer has, and which I will not create simply for my own selfish needs, or maybe I feel like I simply need some sort of purpose to do anything, something that TNP is sorely lacking. We've created a stable democracy with a Constitution to rival that of any RL nation, now what? I never intended to come back after I left in August, and I only did so because I was bored. I only ran for MoD because I was asked to and I thought I could make it into something, only to later realize it didn't really matter. So I'll spend my last month here trying to encourage others to come up with plans to change things, jumpstart things, give TNP an actual purpose, some sort of direction, something. This place is stagnating, and if you don't change it, there will be a coup. I can guarantee that with 100% certainty. Not now, but eventually.

I no longer care enough to force the things that I think would improve the region and help prevent apathy and stagnation on all of you, because I don't want to get involved in a Civil War, or get pushed into creating conflict and strife even if it's just to build up something better in its place.

But others won't share either my lack of drive or care for the community. Also, in the future, others won't face as much resistance, due to increased apathy and stagnation. That is, unless TNP finds some direction, some purpose, some way of attracting newcomers, some way to simplify things so they aren't scared away or turned off by the complexity of what we have here.
 
Here, here. I concur with the Minister.

I echo some of Heft's beliefs and that is why I too am leaving the region after my term.

It's been nice working with you guys.
 
I guess it comes down to whether the majority of active nations want the region to remain interesting and vibrant or to be a place to hang around posting in OOC fora!!

Personally, I prefer a more active political aspect to regions and agree with Heft that our role as a bit player in the defender community is boring and not compatible with most people's timezones!!

I too, am thinking hard about running for next term and on a larger scale, my activities in NationStates for similar reasons expressed by Heft and Goal!!

We need to create something new in TNP to make it interesting to new nations and old nations alike!! Exactly what that is, I don't know!!
 
A feeder empire? That's absurd... that's ridiculous... it's unheard of...


...it's damned brilliant...
 
*Fedele pulls out his hippy hammer

:eyebrow:

Anyway, I'm not trying to be uptight or overly biased but what it all boils down to is that conflict makes the game more exciting and what defenders do is try to remove conflict.

On the other side of the fence invaders are doing great right now because people are getting bored with peace. Conflict doesn't neccessarily mean that your region is in danger or anything of the sort, it simply means that there is a sense of competition. Defending is all about unity but unity kills the game; people do not want to play a game where everyone is sitting in a circle giving each other back rubs. Invaders and imperialists are all friends with each other but keep a sense of competition and compare their success with the success of other invaders. I don't honestly see how defenders are able to play a game without keeping score.

Today there is no competition, tomorrow I may look on the forum and see people walking around with smiles on there faces holding a "I Did My Best" trophy.
 
A nation in TNP recently PM'd me and asked what could be done to save TNP.

I sadly pointed out that TNP has spent nine months making itself so secure, that now it has reached it's objective, there is little left for those that are internal to do.

They have nailed down everthing, what is left is secure, but lacks fun.

TNP will hopefully come through this identity crises and find a new future or a new role in NS, ultimately it will remember that it is just a feeder, here to feed other regions.

Maybe I am just turning into one of those old gits, but I love TNP, but not for what it has become, but because I remember the amount of fun in every form we have shared here.
 
I agree with you completely IP.

Unfortunately, I don't have the pleasure of good memories to fall back on. Sometimes change requires new blood, I think I may be part of the problem rather than part of the cure.
 
I think a combination of a few things have led TNP to its current state.

It reminds me of the "If TNP was Peaceful" thread in the OOC forum. When TNP is peaceful, this occurs. TNP has, for as long as I can remember, been working toward one goal or another. Claiming the delegacy, forming a new Constitution, electing our first officials; it has always been something new and exciting. Conflict creates interest, which made TNP what it was a year or so ago.

But TNP does not need conflict for interest. We have to find something to increase interest in the region and create a reason for activity here. We may be "just a feeder" but we also have many resources at our disposal. We have hundreds of UN nations, and even more non-UN nations. We have the potential for a great region.

So here are my ideas. We should, in my opinion, increase foreign affairs: establish embassies in many regions and be active in those embassies, increase our military presence whether it be by defense or otherwise, and we ought to increase recruiting in our own region so we can get some new players on the forum and bring in some new ideas.
 
I've been on IRC with Fedele for the last half hour or so, and I think we've found a good goal for us to work toward. More details tommorrow, when I can type w/o fear of falling asleep on the keyboard. :D
 
The plan... (I'm on my PSP, so this will be brief)

TNP colonizes & annexes regions. No military skill needed ~ just diplomacy & willing volunteers. Why? To expand ~ an empire the easy way. By opening to other regions, we allow a far more diverse range of people to participate in TNP. These regions control their internal affairs, but allow us run foreign. Their military merges w/ the NPA, increasing total effective force. Members of these regions can become RV's. (Cont'd in next post. Outta room)
 
I'll be taking a general leave-of-absence from NS for awhile. Azazel can handle basic things as Deputy, and Dalimbar is hereby going to be a General for the NPA, with all the powers of a Deputy.

And TNP should go Imperialist. Even if it means taking regions by force if we have to. It would certainly give the NPA a reason for existing and make recruitment easier.
 
Sorry. These regions can recruit for themselves, allowing an almost-loophole in the recruitment rules ~ because they're effectively recruiting for us at the same time.

I could go on. This completely new form of gameplay will revolutionize NS and our region. This is how to do what you all suggested above. This is the goal TNP needs to truly become the greatest region in NationStates.

I'll propose an amendment tommorrow, so we can work this out. Good night, all. :D
 
TNP colonizes & annexes regions. No military skill needed ~ just diplomacy & willing volunteers. Why? To expand ~ an empire the easy way.
Click to expand...

Three cheers for compromises...
 
ator people:
I think a combination of a few things have led TNP to its current state.

It reminds me of the "If TNP was Peaceful" thread in the OOC forum. When TNP is peaceful, this occurs. TNP has, for as long as I can remember, been working toward one goal or another. Claiming the delegacy, forming a new Constitution, electing our first officials; it has always been something new and exciting. Conflict creates interest, which made TNP what it was a year or so ago.
Click to expand...
Very true

But TNP does not need conflict for interest.  We have to find something to increase interest in the region and create a reason for activity here.  We may be "just a feeder" but we also have many resources at our disposal.  We have hundreds of UN nations, and even more non-UN nations.  We have the potential for a great region. 
Click to expand...
Every feeder has always had that potential, and none of them have been able to fully tap it though. It's a noble dream but one that has proven rather unmanagable.

So here are my ideas.    We should, in my opinion, increase foreign affairs: establish embassies in many regions and be active in those embassies,
Click to expand...
Each embassy has to be authorised by a full RV vote, this makes creating them very difficult.

increase our military presence whether it be by defense or otherwise,
Click to expand...
No-one wants to join the NPA at the minute.

and we ought to increase recruiting in our own region so we can get some new players on the forum and bring in some new ideas.
Click to expand...
We are already doing this, to minimal effect.

Hersfold:
The plan... (I'm on my PSP, so this will be brief)

TNP colonizes & annexes regions. No military skill needed ~ just diplomacy & willing volunteers. Why? To expand ~ an empire the easy way. By opening to other regions, we allow a far more diverse range of people to participate in TNP. These regions control their internal affairs, but allow us run foreign. Their military merges w/ the NPA, increasing total effective force. Members of these regions can become RV's. (Cont'd in next post. Outta room)
Click to expand...

Right, so we annex regions. What do we have to offer them? Why should any UCR want to join us willingly? Why don't we just create an alliance (Which is basically what we are doing).

If we manage this (Which I doubt, and remember I've worked with TNP's world image a lot) we would only be adding to a status quo.

Sorry. These regions can recruit for themselves, allowing an almost-loophole in the recruitment rules ~ because they're effectively recruiting for us at the same time.

I could go on. This completely new form of gameplay will revolutionize NS and our region. This is how to do what you all suggested above. This is the goal TNP needs to truly become the greatest region in NationStates.
Click to expand...
This is not a completely new form of gameplay. This is turning TNP into an Alliance organisation, which has been done over and over.

It is an interesting idea, but I don't believe that "We're a feeder" will cut it when we are trying to diplomatically manouever regions large enough to effect us into joining us.

Another issue is this: Many have said that it is not just a lack of people that is the problem, god knows we do have active members, but the lack of interest in working in TNP that is the problem. Working in the Government is a boring, thankless task rather than an enjoyable part of the game.

Many of our current executors were asked to take their roles rather than choosing them for themselves. And the ones that wanted the job? Well... look at my campaign thread. I was so full of spunk when I took on this role, and the last couple of months have driven me away from TNP, quite possibly for the remander of my time in the game.

WE NEED TO CLEAN OUR OWN HOUSE BEFORE WE START LOOKING AT OTHERS.
 
WE NEED TO CLEAN OUR OWN HOUSE BEFORE WE START LOOKING AT OTHERS.
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Rather than have Eras fan the ban button, I think we should look at what we have here and mold it into what we want. I like Hersfold's idea so I suggest we iron out the wrinkles and see how we like it.
 
I'm afraid the point I was making is that we cannot decide on conquering other regions until we have a working internal structure.

We also need to decide why other regions would want to willingly be conquered by us. What do we have to offer? Don't you think it's very egotistical to assume that these regions will just roll over because we are a feeder? Let me tell you, we are not that impressive to behold from the outside -- we're a bit of a laughing stock, at times. It's much easier to take something by force than to convince it that joining us is in it's best interests when we are in a weak position.

That would require one of two things:

1. A very talented diplomat with an exceptional ability at manipulation.
2. A large armed force with which we could threaten takeover.

We have neither, unless someone has been hiding their secret love of manipulation from me (If so, why are you not in my DC?)
 
*coughs quietly* ;)

Well... An interesting thread, I guess it means I haven't missed much in my absence. :P

I have a fair few thoughts on this matter which I'll try and get down as soon as possible.

Oh, and happy New Year everyone.
 
Yea, taking over by force is easy. If you give me two people with clean puppets we can "annex" Hell tomorrow night. ;)
 
Fedele:
Yea, taking over by force is easy. If you give me two people with clean puppets we can "annex" Hell tomorrow night. ;)
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Exactly my point. For TNP to become a short-term imperialist region would be easy -- and probably quite fun -- but for us to become a long-term empire, or a non-aggressive empire, it's much harder work and we do not have the infrastructure nor people to pull it off at the minute.
 
A few quick comments, firstly unpopular as it may be with some people- I think the current constitution doesn't help with being too large, complicated and unwieldy and perhaps even too-perfect and restricting on change and discussion.

Secondly, regarding the NPA.

I'll start on something not too controversial. As someone not involved (primarily due to the fact I'm not around at the update) I have absoluately no idea what the NPA is doing, has done, etc. That doesn't help, wouldn't it be good if the NPA perhaps published what it was going on a semi-regular basis? Which will also help those involved feel as if they are doing something perhaps?
 
The NPA (with no insult intended to those who are members) appears to be doing very little of import recently. It has not the size to be an aggressive and worthy defender organisation.
 
That may be the case, either way I think the problems with the NPA are more a symptom of the problem we have, rather than cause of the lack of activity.
 
Quite so.

The NPA is just an effective example of how bad the issue has got. At one time we could always rely on Defenders to be active, now we don't even have those.
 
Well, I have seen a lot of defenders running around screaming "NS StaTes is dieing!!! OM goodnez!!! I am retireng b4 it iz 2 late!!!" but, oddly enough, raiders haven't seemed to have noticed NS 'dying'...

Perhaps that says something...
 
I didn't say anything about NS dying, more that TNP is stagnating.

There certainly is life in the old beast yet, but I don't believe this incarnation of the North Pacific Government is the optimal one for activity.
 
Well, plenty of people have said NS is dying and every one of them have been defenders. Hell, Blackbird made a thread about it that must have gone on for 50 pages. I never posted because, quite frankly, bussiness has been great lately.
 
Perhaps she is dying; who can say, really?

There certainly seems to be fewer numbers of active white-hats around these days.

Maybe all anyone is drawn to is the chaos of open warfare. Invaders quite obviously use that as a selling point. With the defenders being as efficient as they are now, Defending is quite a boring task.
 
:o

Sir, I object! Invading is about finesse, grace and the inner self, not such barbaric and unpleasant concepts such as open warfare!


Anyway, I will open up the book of proverbs some other time...

For now, I must say that I support both Hersfold's methods of colonization and GoalVA's barbaric suggestion of forced take overs. I fail to see why they could not both be put to good use.
 
Well, it's certainly changed a lot then.

I don't believe we are in a position to utilise any method of invasion at this point in time.
I could put it in franker terms, but I'm trying not to be crude.
 
I don't think turning TNP into some kind of "empire" is a solution to our problems.

I think our problems stem more fundementally from the constitution than anything else. I agree that a rethink of the NPA is needed but I don't see that as the key issue.
 
TNP needs a selling point and a reform of the constitution is not going to be what gets new members excited.
 
No, but a reform of the constitution might give us a selling point.

How about we just carry on as usual though?
 
Because carrying on as usual sucks. Everyone is tired of "as usual", that's the problem. TNP has been "as usual" for quite some time. We need something to break the usual. I think the fact that the first thing that comes to mind is a reform of the constitution says something on its own. Yes, that is probably needed but it is not what will get people excited about TNP.
 
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