Pope Hope: Vote Early and Often
- Thread starter Sir Paul
- Start date
Pope Hope
TNPer
Anyone who wants to follow the discussion...
http://s8.invisionfree.com/The_West_Pacifi...0&#entry9468075
I'm rather confused as to the nature of the article in general, if it's a tabloid and people are making contradictory statements...
While I tend to agree with Sirixis, my future absence from this thread will actually be due to Nasi regional-wide intent to avoid PRP figures until at least after Nasicournia's response statement to their declaration of war has been released.
In the meantime, as stated in TWP, I hope everyone involved can at least remain civil--especially while on the forums of regions unrelated to the conflict.
http://s8.invisionfree.com/The_West_Pacifi...0&#entry9468075
I'm rather confused as to the nature of the article in general, if it's a tabloid and people are making contradictory statements...
While I tend to agree with Sirixis, my future absence from this thread will actually be due to Nasi regional-wide intent to avoid PRP figures until at least after Nasicournia's response statement to their declaration of war has been released.
In the meantime, as stated in TWP, I hope everyone involved can at least remain civil--especially while on the forums of regions unrelated to the conflict.
Pierconium
TNPer
M
Myrth
Guest
http://manetheran.proboards30.com/index.cg...read=1132242259
Ness Snorlaxia:
Ness Snorlaxia:
Buuyo:
hds:
pacdude:
So who's the liar?
Pope Hope
TNPer
I don't believe I've stated one way or another on that issue. I don't intend to start answering to the PRP, especially when they've just declared war on my region and it's obvious why they published this "tabloid." I've simply stated that neither Astarial nor I, nor any leader from Nasicournia, would intentionally attempt to subvert democracy in any region, whether we care about the results of their vote (which was obviously in favor of continuing relations already) or not.
I do find it strange that no one from Hyrule has written me on this issue, however. The only way I found out about it was from the PRP "tabloid."
I do find it strange that no one from Hyrule has written me on this issue, however. The only way I found out about it was from the PRP "tabloid."
M
Myrth
Guest
Way to dodge the issue yet again. I'm a liar? Boohoo, I've never claimed to be honest.You're the liar, but that's another story altogether.
I don't think name-calling is necessarily the best way to go about communicating your point here, especially when you registered here and/or your only posts on this forum have been to do it.
We actually had a bet in the Pacific IRC channel as to when you'd first start accusing people of personal attacks as a way to detract attention from the fact that you're on the losing side of a debate here. GoalVA - I owe you a drink!
Either way your point is moot - my statement was perfectly valid. Both parties cannot be telling the truth (I assume you're denying that you voted in Hyrule's poll - your posts have been so vague [intentionally?] that it can be hard to tell) so one party in this case is lying.
J
Joop
Guest
The question and discussion was not about that however.
It was about the innuendo and conjecture of what has been stated was a tabloid arcticle, as I suspected, and not neccesarily iontended as seeking the truth.
I am glad that is cleared up. :B):
While there may be truth in the arcticle it clearly has overstepped the bounds of reason in its conclusions which were coinjecture.
Now the topic seems to have changed to one of a factual nature. Unfortunately the time to have checked those facts was before the innuendo ladden arcticle was written, as PH has stated that there was no intent, and indeed the outcome was not affected by any actions. I am content that the arcticle has been clarified as tabloidesque, and while I may think that tabloid journalism can be hurtful to some and should not be used to base ones opinions on, far be it for me to stop other's fun. So long as it is in good fun, and not mean spirited...
(damn, everytime I think I'm out...)
It was about the innuendo and conjecture of what has been stated was a tabloid arcticle, as I suspected, and not neccesarily iontended as seeking the truth.
I am glad that is cleared up. :B):
While there may be truth in the arcticle it clearly has overstepped the bounds of reason in its conclusions which were coinjecture.
Now the topic seems to have changed to one of a factual nature. Unfortunately the time to have checked those facts was before the innuendo ladden arcticle was written, as PH has stated that there was no intent, and indeed the outcome was not affected by any actions. I am content that the arcticle has been clarified as tabloidesque, and while I may think that tabloid journalism can be hurtful to some and should not be used to base ones opinions on, far be it for me to stop other's fun. So long as it is in good fun, and not mean spirited...
(damn, everytime I think I'm out...)
Pierconium
TNPer
J
Joop
Guest
You are joking of course.
Otherwise that might be a personal attack...Egads! :rolleyes:
Otherwise that might be a personal attack...Egads! :rolleyes:
Queen Astarial
TNPer
*coughs* That was me forgetting to log in. 
Fedele
TNPer
J
Joop
Guest
:fishattack: 
:p
Novus Homines
TNPer
Innuendo and conjecture? I think the article was very clear about the facts of the case. Any instances of it being less than clear were it snarkily offering the idea that maybe the two were innocent.
Pope Hope:
No you have not. I believe this has been the cause of a lot of frustration in this thread towards you.
Fallacy: Circumstantial Ad Hominem
1. Person A makes claim X.
2. Person B asserts that A makes claim X because it is in A's interest to claim X.
3. Therefore claim X is false.
The Pacifics' interests and circumstances have no bearing on the truth or falsity of the claim being made.
Hersfold:
I do not think I have made any inflammatory statements, but if I am one of the guilty parties I apologize to you Hersfold.
Pope Hope
TNPer
Facts + tabloids don't normally go together, you know. :B):
I understand that you're attempting to force me to answer your accusations, Mammo, but I will do no such thing. I do not and will never answer to the PRP. My regionmates are well aware of exactly what did and did not happen, as is one other person whose opinion happens to matter to me.
As far as I'm concerned, the only people who have the right to ask anything of me if they have concerns in regards to this issue are Nasicournians and Hyrulians. You, sir, are neither (or are you...).
It's always been pretty painfully clear that the PRP's tabloids are directly related to PRP interests and circumstances...otherwise why would you waste the time? You also didn't simply state what you call "facts," you spun it into a conspiracy theory and claimed my entire region was in on it.
P.S. Snarkily?" Interesting choice of words there my friend. :p
I understand that you're attempting to force me to answer your accusations, Mammo, but I will do no such thing. I do not and will never answer to the PRP. My regionmates are well aware of exactly what did and did not happen, as is one other person whose opinion happens to matter to me.
As far as I'm concerned, the only people who have the right to ask anything of me if they have concerns in regards to this issue are Nasicournians and Hyrulians. You, sir, are neither (or are you...).
It's always been pretty painfully clear that the PRP's tabloids are directly related to PRP interests and circumstances...otherwise why would you waste the time? You also didn't simply state what you call "facts," you spun it into a conspiracy theory and claimed my entire region was in on it.
P.S. Snarkily?" Interesting choice of words there my friend. :p
R
Risellia
Guest
Let's be creative - You could say something like:
You're
Entirely
Seaworthy
And we'd know what you mean. Come on, it's not that hard...
Novus Homines
TNPer
It is fortunate, then, that The Pacific is not primarily the ones who are asking the questions in this thread.
When two or more individuals are guilty of the same crime together it is called conspiracy. Because of the positions both of you hold in Nasicournia it implicates the rest of them as well. They were probably not involved, no one is seriously accusing your entire region of intentional malfeasance, but the name of your region has still been tarnished because of your actions.
It is well known that I am a master of snark.
Novus Homines
TNPer
So you do deny that you voted in that election? Because if you did, and were caught lying, it would certainly reflect poorly upon yourself and region.
Pope Hope
TNPer
So now I am Nasicournia. I've said it once and I'll undoubtedly say it again...you guys give me far too much credit sometimes.
I believe I've already stated that I won't answer to you, my friend. I can only assure you that I would never attempt to subvert the democratic process of a region on behalf of another, even if the other has already "won" the vote. I hope you are finally able to sleep knowing this fact. :p
I believe I've already stated that I won't answer to you, my friend. I can only assure you that I would never attempt to subvert the democratic process of a region on behalf of another, even if the other has already "won" the vote. I hope you are finally able to sleep knowing this fact. :p
Novus Homines
TNPer
I think you either misinterpret what I say or are purposefully giving a misleading analysis.
Do you deny that you hold a very important position within Nasicournia? I do not think anyone does. Aside from a smattering of other individuals you are Nasicournia's most famous citizen and only public face to the world. That does not also include the various positions you have held within Nasicournia -such as long-serving UN delegate and founder.
Any action you make reflects poorly upon your organization. It would be the same as if I committed a crime in another region -Marsburg would be reflected upon poorly.
If the world discovered that George Bush (or Bill Clinton) was guilty of some wrong in some small nation somewhere it would reflect poorly upon the United States of America and its allies. George Bush is not the United States, but any actions he commits, whether he chooses to accept so or not, are done in the name of the United States of America, and this country has to bear responsibility for that.
I do not think you are the sole resident of Nasicournia. But I do think you realize the position you hold there and the responsibility that comes with it. If you do something, Pope, you must realize it will reflect on the rest of your region. The stickler is that you are not the only one involved in this: Asta, another Nasicournian, was too. That is called conspiracy. It makes your region look worse.
I am glad that I have not been the only one asking questions from you today. Could you do the honor for GoalVA, however?
Pope Hope
TNPer
Polts:
I didn't know you dropped your identity in the PRP.
I'll be happy to PM you the answer to that question if you promise to keep it to yourself (that includes not telling your other nations :p).
Mammo:
I already answered GoalVA in private much earlier today in the same manner just described to Polts.
You do realize I could have just ignored this one as is usually the case with these kind of tabloids? I really don't think either of us posting anything will change the opinions of anyone who actually reads these publications, but the whole timing thing sure is interesting.
I might buy your argument on my actions reflecting poorly on my region were it not for the innumerable false and negative accusations of actions that have been thrust upon me in the past and the zero effect it's had on Nasicournia as a result. As with situations like this, the same people believe or disbelieve either one side or the other. I'm pretty used to it by now and I assume my neighbors are as well.
I didn't know you dropped your identity in the PRP.
I'll be happy to PM you the answer to that question if you promise to keep it to yourself (that includes not telling your other nations :p).
Mammo:
I already answered GoalVA in private much earlier today in the same manner just described to Polts.
You do realize I could have just ignored this one as is usually the case with these kind of tabloids? I really don't think either of us posting anything will change the opinions of anyone who actually reads these publications, but the whole timing thing sure is interesting.
I might buy your argument on my actions reflecting poorly on my region were it not for the innumerable false and negative accusations of actions that have been thrust upon me in the past and the zero effect it's had on Nasicournia as a result. As with situations like this, the same people believe or disbelieve either one side or the other. I'm pretty used to it by now and I assume my neighbors are as well.
Novus Homines
TNPer
I am unaware of any identity Polstamaa has within The Pacific. Regardless, within The North Pacific he is the Prime Minister -and you are his subordinate.
Do you feel that a region or organization does not have a responsibility to be accountable for its members? Because that is the message which I am receiving from you.
Should I be thanking you then? What is my obligation now that you have chosen to respond to a proven scandal?
You could have ignored this, but you did not. Within just three Pacifics this story have already received some two thousand views. For good or ill PNN is the most read news organization in the world.
I don't think that is an argument, more perhaps an understood way of doing things. If The Red Factions n00ks a forum it reflects poorly on the Red Liberty Alliance; if a member of the West Pacific's General Assembly is indicted on corruption charges it reflects poorly on me.
It is my opinion that credibility and accountability are often linked. If Nasicournia will not police its own members and hold itself accountable then it should not have any credibility.
Do you feel that a region or organization does not have a responsibility to be accountable for its members? Because that is the message which I am receiving from you.
Poltsamaa
TNPer
I've never had an identity in The Pacific short of being an ambassador for TNP briefly before the last elections!! Not everybody that disagrees with you has an identity in the PRP!!
If you want to PM me your answer, then fine..I will respect the confidence in which that information was given!! However, I find your inability to honestly and publicly answer the question to be quite damning!!
Pope Hope
TNPer
Polts: You're right, everyone that disagrees with me has/had an identity in the UoS/RLA (just kidding, in case there's any confusion...). :p
I don't believe the decision to refuse to publicly answer to PRP demands for information is "damning," though I knew full well that some would try to portray it as such, and decided I didn't much care about said attempts.
I will PM you tomorrow...too tired right now.
Mammo: I don't believe that citizens of TNP are "subordinates" to the Prime Minister they elected (if that's true that's certainly not something I signed up to be a part of nor many others I suspect); in fact I believe all elected figures of authority are there to serve their constituents, and should be held accountable to those constituents. I do however fail to see how that applies to anything in this thread...even "subordinates" are allowed to question public officials you know, at least in this region.
I'm glad my linkage of these threads helped with your tabloid viewing statistics...I think... as for the rest of it, I just finished writing up a rough draft response to the PRP rebuttal...some of your queries are actually addressed in there (which will be revised and approved before publication)...I'm done for the night. Perhaps tomorrow. Depends on the mortality rate of tomorrow's finals.
I don't believe the decision to refuse to publicly answer to PRP demands for information is "damning," though I knew full well that some would try to portray it as such, and decided I didn't much care about said attempts.
I will PM you tomorrow...too tired right now.
Mammo: I don't believe that citizens of TNP are "subordinates" to the Prime Minister they elected (if that's true that's certainly not something I signed up to be a part of nor many others I suspect); in fact I believe all elected figures of authority are there to serve their constituents, and should be held accountable to those constituents. I do however fail to see how that applies to anything in this thread...even "subordinates" are allowed to question public officials you know, at least in this region.
I'm glad my linkage of these threads helped with your tabloid viewing statistics...I think... as for the rest of it, I just finished writing up a rough draft response to the PRP rebuttal...some of your queries are actually addressed in there (which will be revised and approved before publication)...I'm done for the night. Perhaps tomorrow. Depends on the mortality rate of tomorrow's finals.
Poltsamaa
TNPer
That's a lot of people not agreeing with you!! :p
Again, I'm not PRP and asked you a direct question!! The fact that you cannot answer that question directly and publicly does not look good no matter how much spin you try and put on it!!
I look forward to it!!
Answering questions of public interest openly is accountable behaviour, in my opinion!! Do public officials in this region have to answer the questions of the "subordinates" or can we also avoid questions we do not want to answer and cast blame on others for asking the question?!
Edit: removed extraneous quote tag and fixed spelling errors..probably not all of them though!!
Novus Homines
TNPer
Regardless of how you feel about the leader/follower dynamic as it occurs in The North Pacific's consitution (quite possibly an enlightening discussion which we will have to have some other time), the office of Prime Minister is still deserving of a modicum of respect which I felt then that was not shown. It is disrespectful to accuse the Prime Minister of being primarily an agent of the People's Republic. In attempting to get a truthful, non-coy, response from you he is only trying to do his job.
Please answer my one question. It is just a simple request for an old Marsburger.
Do you feel that a region or organization does not have a responsibility to be accountable for its members? Because that is the message which I am receiving from you.
Haor Chall
The Power of the Dark Side
- TNP Nation
- Haor Chall
*Scrolls down the RV/RA lists... Nope, no dual-citizens from Nasicournia there... 
Queen Astarial
TNPer
For the last bloody time. It was a mistake. It was not planned on. PH and I did not chat about how to subvert democracy. So stop saying that, dammit.