Pope Hope: Vote Early and Often

[Sir Paul]

Pope Hope: Vote Early and Often (in regions you aren’t in)

A Nasicourian stuffing the ballot box in Hyrule

Government City, Hyrule: In this Zelda themed region full of RP and fantasy, one thing that is not tolerated is idle embassies, so ambassadors who neglect their duties find their forums in an archive. Enter Nasicouria, who recently found out that their embassy was placed upon the scrap heap of Hyrule. Thus, the in character persona of the High Queen of Pope Hope, not to be confused with the out of character personality of [name withheld], requested that the Nasicourian embassy be unarchived .

Being a democratic region (as Nasicouria generally only deals with democratic regions) the question as to whether or not the embassy should be re-established fell to the House of Members and was put in a poll. The region was asked “Should we re-establish diplomatic relations with Nasicournia?”

The final vote tally was 10 ayes, 3 nays, and 1 abstention. Or was it? Unlike Invisionfree forums, Proboards moderators can see who voted in the poll. On the roster of votes appeared the nation “Pope Hope.” Also voting in the poll was Astarial, another Nasicourian who does not have a nation in Hyrule. At first, it was suspected that Pope Hope may have abstained in order to see the voting results. However, Grand Judge Kritschboilek quelled that thought:

Well, she didn't vote abstain, I voted abstain, just because I don't know what to vote here ...

Since Hyrule forbids non-members from voting in the House of Member, their votes were striken from the record. After the electoral fraud was purged from the process, Delegate Ness Snorlaxia verified the final tally:

Hrm, this isn't exactly good. But, well, based on the people who voted, 7 for - 3 against -1 abstain, we open the embassy.

The Tabloid Tribune wishes Nasicouria the best with its second embassy in Hyrule, and has a few tidbits of advice for keeping it:

1) Post at least once per month in your embassy
2) The House of Members is for Members
3) Don’t commit electoral fraud if you don’t have to
4) Keep naïve regions away from the experienced regions who might tell Hyrule that electoral fraud is bad
-----
Relevant Link
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Written by Sir Paul
The Tabloid Tribune – One Step Ahead of the Truth
Proudly Part of PNN

 

[Poltsamaa]

Wow, that is embarrassing!! But I guess you have to make sure that democracy delivers the right answer anyway you can!! :wacko:

 

[Pope Hope]

It would only be embarrassing if it were true. Though there may be elements of truth in it, myself and Astarial (and my region in general) would never purposefully try to interfere in the democratic decisions of another region, period. History has shown us in fact to defend it, vehemently, including in this region repeatedly.

Our FA department is doing just fine--better than ever, actually--and I've probably been over to the Hyrule forum just to make sure updates were being delivered a total of 3-4 times...and not for awhile.

You really shouldn't just believe everything you read, especially from a news agency with a history of covering what I am "doing," even at times when I hadn't communicated with them for months. They just like me a bit much.

 

[Poltsamaa]

So, are you saying yourself and Astarial did not vote in that poll?!

 

[GoalVA]

Asta admitted it... o.O

 

[Dalimbar]

Ness Snorlaxia even admitted it...

 

[Novus Homines]

It would only be embarrassing if it were true. 

Asta admitted it... o.O

Ness Snorlaxia even admitted it...

These sentences seem in contradiction with the first.

Though there may be elements of truth in it...

This sentence may not necessarily be.

They just like me a bit much.

Sadly you seem to be implicated in a lot of situations like this. You're a controversial fellow. I only wish I could get as much attention from time to time *sniff*

 

[Democratic Donkeys]

Haha, all you have to do then is create one of the largest Defender (self-proclaimed) organizations out there.

 

[GoalVA]

Create it, or reform it in your image?

 

[OPArsenal]

@ GoalVA: The Queen of Queens, eh?

 

[Democratic Donkeys]

Oh yeah, whoops Goal, my bad. She didn't create it.

 

[Joop]

It would only be embarrassing if it were true. 

Asta admitted it... o.O

Ness Snorlaxia even admitted it...

These sentences seem in contradiction with the first.

Though there may be elements of truth in it...

This sentence may not necessarily be.

They just like me a bit much.

Sadly you seem to be implicated in a lot of situations like this. You're a controversial fellow. I only wish I could get as much attention from time to time *sniff*

Uh this frame up job must be commonplace considering the ease with which the many parts work in conjunction. Let us ask how it is untrue before we go putting words in peoples moths, and then condemning them as liars for those words, which were not theirs to begin with, but placed theirs through assumption, by others...


PH did say it was untrue, she also said there are elements of truth. Why not ask what happened rather than assume there was some purposeful wrongdoing?
The vote was in favor of re-opening anyway, why assume that there was voter fraud, and if Astarial did vote, why assume that she purposefully broke the rules, why asuume anything at all? Why write up an arcticle that assumes all of this?

And why would others just jump on the bandwagon in condemnation when the facts are so obscured.

Is this what TNP news has come to? Is now just another tabloid that we should turn to for laughs and not content?

 

[unlimited]

Uh this frame up job must be commonplace considering the ease with which the many parts work in conjunction. Let us ask how it is untrue before we go putting words in peoples moths, and then condemning them as liars for those words, which were not theirs to begin with, but placed theirs through assumption, by others...


PH did say it was untrue, she also said there are elements of truth. Why not ask what happened rather than assume there was some purposeful wrongdoing?
The vote was in favor of re-opening anyway, why assume that there was voter fraud, and if Astarial did vote, why assume that she purposefully broke the rules, why asuume anything at all? Why write up an arcticle that assumes all of this?

And why would others just jump on the bandwagon in condemnation when the facts are so obscured.

Is this what TNP news has come to? Is now just another tabloid that we should turn to for laughs and not content?

Nasicournian delegation was in Hyrule seeking an embassy... check

Hyrule started a members-only poll to see if they wanted an embassy... check

Nasicournian delegation voted in the poll... check

The votes were in a direction that favoured Nasicournia... check

The Hyrule government as well as Astarial (Nasicournia delegation) confirm all this... check

Article states that the Nasicournian delegation were seeking an embassy in Hyrule, who started a members-only vote, which saw the Nasicournian delegacy vote in it in favour of the embassy... check

Pope Hope states that it isn't true... check

Blatant contradition with previous statements made by everyong else involved... check

Joop makes rambling statement backing up Pope Hope without actually saying anything of use or substance whatsoever... check

Unlimited makes step-by-step logical checklist of events up to this point - mostly just to irritate Joop... check

What an adventure!

 

[OPArsenal]

Well done, Comrade Unlimited.

 

[GoalVA]

You forgot:

Guest news article used as bad example of TNP press -- Check.

 

[Joop]

Nasicournian delegation was in Hyrule seeking an embassy... check

Nasicournian delegation was in Hyrule seeking an embassy... check

I think this is safe to say. :rolleyes:

Hyrule started a members-only poll to see if they wanted an embassy... check

I do not think it is safe to say that it was known to those not of the region that they were not allowed to vote in the poll, especially as they were capable of voting...but don't bother asking or anything, why should fact get in the way of a good smear.

Nasicournian delegation voted in the poll... check

At least Astarial did, if we are to believe the "authority" who was not Astarial. Regardless, this statement makes it appear as if there were many, an entire delegation! egads! At most it was claimed there were two erroneous votes, there was no checking to see if they knew they were in a region only vote... Well the delegation, all two of them, maybe both, maybe not at this point, did not even influence the outcome...

The votes were in a direction that favoured Nasicournia... check

Surprise, surprise, surprise. The vote/or votes (2 votes at most) were most probably placed without the knowledge that it was a region only vote, or maybe not, at this point we don't really knowdo we, I would give them the benefit of the doubt as it didn't influence anything, but smear on. Tis a fair court.

The Hyrule government as well as Astarial (Nasicournia delegation) confirm all this... check

What exactly the This in that sentence refers to is completely unclear. Does it refer to everything as stated up to this point? I doubt it. but that is the conjecture. And the misleading nature of not only this arcticle but the entire conversation...

Article states that the Nasicournian delegation were seeking an embassy in Hyrule, who started a members-only vote, which saw the Nasicournian delegacy vote in it in favour of the embassy... check

It says more than that and implies even more, which clearly was the purpose. If that was all it said I don't think it would be a problem with anyone. Clearly the way it was written meets with the approval of some though.

Pope Hope states that it isn't true... check

Audacious! PH does say there are some items that may be true in the arcticle. At this point I do not know what parts PH says are true or not as she never stated it. I fail to see how you could have read her mind.

Blatant contradition with previous statements made by everyong else involved... check

Clearly it is not a contradiction as we do not know what PH is saying is true or not. But thanks for pointing out exactly how the flawed reasoning that came to be this arcticle works.

Joop makes rambling statement backing up Pope Hope without actually saying anything of use or substance whatsoever... check

Much like the arcticle itself?
I actually have made a good point.
That is if you are going to smear someone, at least get your story right and not smear them with shear conjecture and innuendo.

Unlimited makes step-by-step logical checklist of events up to this point - mostly just to irritate Joop... check

I appreciate your checklist as it has enabled us to dissect just where the reasoning that went into the arcticle was flawed, or not depending on weather your desired outcome was fact or fiction.

I do not claim that there are no facts presented, only that the fact that are presented are used to prove something in a flawed and misleading fashion.

T am glad to hear this is not the normal quality of TNP news arcticles.

 

[Myrth]

Though there may be elements of truth in it

I think the crucial 'element of truth' is that you voted in a poll that was to created to guage the region's opinions on whether the embassy should be re-opened. Your defence of ignorance is rather thin.

I do not think it is safe to say that it was known to those not of the region that they were not allowed to vote in the poll, especially as they were capable of voting...but don't bother asking or anything,

Oh yes, because it was so unclear as to whether the forum was for the regional government. What with its category being "The Hyrulean Government" and the forum itself being "the House of Members". I can see how confusing it is as to whether outsiders should be voting in what is obviously the internal government forum of a region. I'm suprised PH and Asta didn't vote multiple times with different accounts, as it didn't say anywhere that it's supposed to be one vote per person.
Perhaps they should rename it to "The Hyrulean Government of Hyrule and Hyrule only -> the House of Members of Hyrule, Not Members of Other Regions in Case We Made it Unclear in Which Case We're Very Sorry." so that this kind of simple misunderstanding doesn't happen in the future.

At least Astarial did, if we are to believe the "authority" who was not Astarial.

[7:38pm] [7:38pm] * Taria pokes Myrth
[7:38pm] [7:38pm]«@  Taria » I had the ability to vote, hence, I voted :P
[7:38pm] [7:38pm]«@  Dilber » Yeah...about that voting in other regions
[7:39pm] [7:39pm]«@  Dilber » stop that
[7:39pm] [7:39pm]«@  Dilber » :-
[7:39pm] [7:39pm]«@  Dilber » :-p
[7:39pm] [7:39pm]«@  Taria » Shouldn't give ambassadors voting power;)

That's some rock-solid defence there. "I voted because I could." I'll refrain from pursuing this one further since Asta isn't present to defend herself (although I'm sure she, along with everyone else from Nasi, will be called in once PH realise she's... Oh no! On the losing side of a debate again!).

And what do you mean 'At least' Astarial did? You act like there's some shadow of a doubt whether Pope Hope voted. Ness Snorlaxia stated it in pretty straightforward terms. "Please note that Pope Hope, founder of Nasicournia voted". Unless you'd care to call Ness Snorlaxia and various other members of the Hyrulean government liars, there is no 'At least' about it.

Audacious! PH does say there are some items that may be true in the arcticle. At this point I do not know what parts PH says are true or not as she never stated it. I fail to see how you could have read her mind.

---

Clearly it is not a contradiction as we do not know what PH is saying is true or not. But thanks for pointing out exactly how the flawed reasoning that came to be this arcticle works.

Once again, there is only really one part to this, Joop. The fact of the matter is that Pope Hope voted in a poll intended (quite clearly) for members of Hyrule to vote in. The defence of 'I didn't know...' is pathetic. Of course they knew, and if they'd known that the moderators would be able to see their votes I doubt very much that they would vote done so. What would be the point of asking the people who asked for the embassy to be reopened whether they wanted it to be reopened?
Perhaps PH and Asta both fell on their keyboards, and by sheer coincidence they accidentally managed to vote in favour.

I do not claim that there are no facts presented, only that the fact that are presented are used to prove something in a flawed and misleading fashion.

Yes, obviously Sir Paul cunningly managed to twist the fact that PH and Asta voted in a poll that was for Hyrulean members only into an article stating that PH and Asta voted in a poll that was for Hyrulean members only. How wicked of him!

I think the straws you're clutching at have pretty much disintegrated.

 

[Joop]

I yeild to the lack of logic and general acceptance of it being displayed in this thread. :rolleyes:

I will note that within all of the proof and innuendo presented, nowhere was there any admission of purposeful deceipt nor any difference of outcomes.

There has been a great deal made about proving things i have not disputed, way to go.

Perhaps, as I have suggested, you might ask the "accused" exactly what did happen, in this most inconsequetial event, instead of trying to make mountains out of molehills, especially as the end results were the same. But I guess that would not make for nearly as an interesting arcticle as the innuendo tabloid that the raw facts and extrapolation have.

As I have said, i leave you to your own conclusions as I have no hope of deterring such a determined smear.

 

[GoalVA]

:rolleyes:

You're slipping, Joop.

 

[Poltsamaa]

A question to Joop!!

In YOUR opinion, if not to skew the vote in favour of their desired outcome, what was the motivation for members of Nasicournia to vote in a members vote in Hyrule!! You claim there was no desire deceive, but what other purpose was there for voting at all?!

Now, try and focus on the question I asked and answer the question directly!!

 

[Joop]

I fail to see that that question adds anything to this conversation.

The innuendo and assumptions have been made and held onto with such tenacity...Ask those involved if you wish to know the truth. I do not claim to kmow the truth of the situation, but I do know flawed logic and a smear when I see it.

 

[Poltsamaa]

I didn't think you could answer that question!!

I believe the facts have been presented in the article and backed up by those involved!! Pope Hope has not denied the claims but intimated there was some untruth to the article!! She has not responded to point out what was untrue in the article!! Joop, you have not contributed anything to this discussion, oyu have presented no facts, you have only posted circular rhetoric as a smokescreen!!

What exactly is it in the article that you are disputing?!

 

[Joop]

I do not see the purpose of arguing the validity of the depictions in that tabloid arcticle further. I yield to the fact that I will not change the minds of those who have bought into this form of deductive reasoning.
If you wish to know what my point is you should read one of my several posts here.
You may characterize my future silence in this thread as you wish.
I have made the point I desired.
Make yours as you will, preferably on the topic at hand.

 

[GoalVA]

Joop, my friend: I don't think you've made a point other than "You are wrong, and so is the article".

So, why do you believe the article is in error?

 

[Poltsamaa]

Seems he does not dispute any part of the article!!

 

[GoalVA]

Then what was he disputing?

[edit]

It's just occured to me how much Joop sounds like Twoslit; I'd never noticed that before.

 

[The New Duce]

Come on Joop, give it up. You're sounding incoherent at best. You know what, if one of you had said "well, it was wrong, we just made an innocent mistake", the thread would have run its course.

It's lovely not to fear your post being edited for flamebaiting, libel or some other phoney charge.

 

[IndieGirl]

On a SideNote(tm):

The Pac Boys =

You guys are awesome. I wish we could all be one big TNP + PRP foreva. That's one of my unspoken (until now, of course) NS fantasies. :wink:



Carry on...

 

[Novus Homines]

Haha, all you have to do then is create one of the largest Defender (self-proclaimed) organizations out there.

She didn't create the ADN. Caesar and Vazquez, with much contribution from Sarda, did. (Edit: Democratic Donkeys corrected himself later on. )

Why write up an arcticle that assumes all of this?

I think we have different definitions of the word assume in mind. The article takes the following facts: 1) There was a vote to reopen Nasicournia's embassy which had been closed 2) Certain individuals, including Pope Hope and Astarial, were shown to be on the list of those voting 3) Neither of them are citizens of Hyrule.

We are then able to suspect that there was some wrongdoing done.

I think you unfairly criticize this as yellow journalism when it is being more fair than you give it credit for. The article differs from other accusations because of its lighthearded, ho hum, nature and Sir Paul's writing offers the possibility that there may be details unknown... but it certainly looks this way.

I do not think it is safe to say that it was known to those not of the region that they were not allowed to vote in the poll, especially as they were capable of voting...

Now you are just being obtuse.

It may have been a n00b mistake, but it is not believable to say that Pope Hope or Astarial are n00bs.

Regardless, this statement makes it appear as if there were many, an entire delegation! egads!

You are criticizing the secondary, which is what others have said about the article, and not the primary, which is the incident itself. Are you saying that a squad of elite NasiCorps agents rigging the election would be bad, but because there were not that many involved it is okay?

I do not think anyone is saying a covert squad of elite NasiCorps agents rigged that vote. But the fact that there were two Nasicournians listed shows a conspiracy.

What exactly the This in that sentence refers to is completely unclear. Does it refer to everything as stated up to this point? I doubt it. but that is the conjecture. And the misleading nature of not only this arcticle but the entire conversation...

If you would like I may speak with Ness myself and get back to you.

Audacious!

Quite.

PH does say there are some items that may be true in the arcticle.

A wiley attempt to avoid getting caught in a denial which would only blow up in their face?

That is if you are going to smear someone, at least get your story right and not smear them with shear conjecture and innuendo.

Where was the Tabloid Tribune wrong? What facts in the article do you dispute? One cannot argue that Pope Hope and Astarial were not shown on the list of persons voting, so where does the article go wrong?

I yeild to the lack of logic and general acceptance of it being displayed in this thread.

At the risk of going into a personal attack (oh no!), I don't think you even know what logic is.

I will note that within all of the proof and innuendo presented, nowhere was there any admission of purposeful deceipt nor any difference of outcomes.

Well, duh.

The innuendo and assumptions have been made and held onto with such tenacity...Ask those involved if you wish to know the truth.

And they have had several opportunities to dispute this. If Pope Hope or Asta would like to give their full account I am certain no one will stop them. Asta, however, already has.

I fail to see how you could have read her mind.

While we are speculating on each others' statements, I do not think anyone is saying Pope Hope had a master plan to usurpt Hyrule's sovereignty.

I think the process went like this: Hyrule had a vote on something which Nasicournia considered favorable to itself, not a matter of dire importance but significant enough to garner their attention; two Nasicournains (plural) made certain that it would pass by voting for an afore-agreed upon position; Ness finds out that foreigners voted and word leaks out; shit.

No one committed murder here Joop, and no one is alleging that. This was a small incident. But it is an incident where the actions of certain individuals did not live up to their words.

 

[Pope Hope]

It's not surprising to see who is automatically embracing this piece of propoganda as full truth.

It's also interesting that this propoganda directly proceeded the PRP's newest statement which basically declares war on Nasicournia. Hmm. I wonder if the release of more derogatory propoganda against us right before this has any relation? :rolleyes: Especially now that there's openly referring to us as "Nazis" in public (as opposed to the usual in "private"):

True, Astarial has traditionally been an Equilismite.

Asutaneku would have been the proper address of the Nazicournian nation. 

http://s4.invisionfree.com/thepacific/inde...opic=3128&st=30

I'm sure you can all put two and two together.

I've already stated I would never attempt to subvert the democratic process of another region. I've barely had time to care about Hyrule at all let alone care so much as to vote on a proboards forum in a vote already obviously in our favor, knowing full well the votes are recorded... I would never do such a thing on purpose even if the votes weren't recorded. If I did I would most likely go the PRP route myself, infiltrating and/or stacking regional ranks with dual residents. Other than Nasi, TNP is the only region I have interest in participating in as a citizen with an equal voice in governing...and I even keep my opinions here largely quiet.

And now I have to make time for a war? :rolleyes: This was simply additional preparation for the declaration of the war they've been threatening for some time now.

 

[The New Duce]

To everyone, please be reminded that no one in this thread has managed to come up with an element of proof that could overturn the fundamental facts in the article.

Now, to the charming Pope Hope:

Especially now that there's openly referring to us as "Nazis" in public (as opposed to the usual in "private"):

This is from the person that stated the Minister was "feeding the ovens" over here. Please, you don't want to go there.

As for the rest, I suppose we are to sit down and do nothing whilst you give aid, confort and manpower to those seeking to overthrow us. Not going to happen.

 

[Pope Hope]

I never said that, actually. And never would.

In any case, in regards to your recent statement, we shall be releasing our own shortly. It directly addresses all of the accusations, so I'll leave it at that for now.

 

[GoalVA]

So you are saying that the Government of Hyrule is lying about this?

 

[Novus Homines]

It's not surprising to see who is automatically embracing this piece of propoganda as full truth.

It's part of my job as the Loyal Opposition. You know that, Pope.

I've barely had time to care about Hyrule at all let alone care so much as to vote on a proboards forum in a vote already obviously in our favor, knowing full well the votes are recorded... I would never do such a thing on purpose even if the votes weren't recorded.

I am unaware of any region anywhere where ambassadors are asked to vote in government decisions, especially those regarding foreign policy.

It may be a n00b mistake, Pope, but we all know that you and Asta are not n00bs.

 

[Pierconium]

That damned Pierconium, always causing a fuss.

 

[Sirixis]

If a dispute between members of the West Pacific was considered "none of our business" and the discussion here shut down, then I think an arguement between members of The Pacific and Nasicournia should also be taken elsewhere.

 

[GoalVA]

It's not surprising to see who is automatically embracing this piece of propoganda as full truth.

 

[Pierconium]

While I may not be a citizen of this region, at present, I represent a former Delegate here and I will speak my mind and opinion until such time as the government of the region and/or forum moderation removes my access.

In regards to the conversation taking place in this particular thread, it is a PNN tabloid piece and the parties in question are debating it's merit. Nevermind the fact that it is a tabloid and was not posted in our news section and should be generally viewed as more tongue in cheek than serious.

 

[Sirixis]

While I may not be a citizen of this region...

That's the point.

A West Pacifican, who also happens to be a deputy minister here was rebuked for discussing WP issues here. I see a fair number of non-NPers going on about this subject here. It's simply not the place for it.

 

[GoalVA]

To be fair, Sirixis, that discussion was a call for TNP to get involved with West Pacific affairs; That is something that I cannot advocate.

This is more a 'friendly' chat between people who should know better.