[SC - Submitted] Repeal "Liberate Iran"

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mcmasterdonia

mcmasterdonia

Just like a queef in the wind, so is life
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TNP Nation
McMasterdonia
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Repeal Liberate Iran
Category: Repeal | Target: SC #241
Proposed by: Iramerica | Onsite Topic​

Security Council Resolution #241 “Liberate Iran” shall be struck out and rendered null and void.

The Security Council,

Recalling the state the region of Iran was in before the passage of SC#241: Liberate Iran, having been passworded and left inactive by Persian Empire operatives;

Thankful that the passage of SC#241 allowed long-time native nation Iramerica to return to its home region, where they had been banished from for up to five years;

Saddened, however, by the many raids Iran has faced over the last two years which have hindered attempts at growing a stable community within the region;

Noting that Iramerica has expressed interest in securing the region by means of a refound;

Believing that the imposition of a password on Iran’s borders is a prerequisite for a safe refound, without outside interference by raider forces;

Hereby repeals SC#241: Liberate Iran.

Co-authored by Kuriko.
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Voting Instructions:
  • Vote For if you want the Delegate to vote For the resolution.
  • Vote Against if you want the Delegate to vote Against the resolution.
  • Vote Abstain if you want the Delegate to abstain from voting on this resolution.
  • Vote Present if you are personally abstaining from this vote.
Detailed opinions with your vote are appreciated and encouraged!
 
Against. I don’t believe the raids including ours have hindered the community at all. If anything, our raid promoted activity and life in the region.
 
As the co-author, I was wondering if I could get an explanation for all of the against votes?? I always figured that TNP stood up for native rights, and all of these against votes are really concerning to me.
 
(Marxist) Germany:
This can be argued of any raids; the activity raids bring to a region is negative and disruptive.
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No it can’t. Our raid was not destructive at all and hindered nothing. Everything was also restored upon leaving. You may think that all raids are negative and disruptive, but no sane person truly believes that.

I do find it hilarious that in your recent attempt to repeal evil wolf’s commendation that you argued that refounding a region such as Nazi Europe is not beneficial and is not disruptive to the region in a significant way, but now apparently a simple raid is.

Kuriko:
As the co-author, I was wondering if I could get an explanation for all of the against votes?? I always figured that TNP stood up for native rights, and all of these against votes are really concerning to me.
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I’m not against a repeal in general, but I think that particular line is problematic. While it doesn’t mention us exactly, it appears by implication, given our recent raid to be a condemnation of that action.
 
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mcmasterdonia:
I’m not against a repeal in general, but I think that particular line is problematic. While it doesn’t mention us exactly, it appears by implication, given our recent raid to be a condemnation of that action.
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But that's not what it is at all McM. Since Iran was liberated 2 years ago it's had 8 hostile occupations or tag raids, which is what the proposal is referencing. It's not referencing the sole occupation by TNP/Euro, nor is it trying to "subtly condemn" your two regions. The sole purpose of this repeal is to allow Iramerica to eventually refound the region at a later date, through the use of a password to stop outside interference.

Im actually baffled by how anyone came to the conclusion that this was solely about TNP and Euro, when that's not even close to the case.
 
In what ways has anyone attempted to grow a community?

The proposal indirectly states that TNP has hindered growth in this region, despite no growth ever appearing in peace time. This region seems to an issues player and lots of sleepers. If anything, TNP gave a purpose to a dead region. Raids are preventable through activity, but this liberation is seemingly the only recent attempt at any growth for the community.

I am in favor of a liberation because it might help Iramerica make a community in the region, but saying that TNP et al. hurt it (and it does say that, it just doesn't call us out specifically) is unsubstantiated and disingenuous fluff.

Against. My WA is on deployment in the NPA.

Edit: I will, however, vote for in other regions. I am not personally insulted. I simply think TNP should be against.
 
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Bormiar:
This region seems to an issues player and lots of sleepers.
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Sounds a lot like purpose to me.
If anything, TNP gave a purpose to a dead region.
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This, frankly, is ridiculous. A raid does not give purpose to a region or the community that falls victim to it.

I am in favor of a liberation because it might help Iramerica make a community in the region, but saying that TNP et al. hurt it (and it does say that, it just doesn't call us out specifically) is unsubstantiated and disingenuous fluff.
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Raids damage regions, even ones that aren't actively attempting to grow and drive players away from the game. Saying that the raids Iran has suffered has damaged it is no more fluff than saying that it being raided 'gave it purpose'.
 
Gorundu:
Against. Iran is ours.
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Sorry, I haven't been keeping up to date with all the goings on and I must have missed this memo.

Who is "ours"? Did I miss some legislation? Or are you speaking from the perspective of Cabinet or the NPA here?
 
I want to take this time to explain why I voted against, coming from the perspective of someone not heavily involved in gameplay.
I seriously cannot see how the community would improve or grow if Iranmerica's aim is to refound and lock the region with a password to increase security. If anything, the argument presented about how raids have "hinder attempts at growing a stable community" doesn't make sense because there has been no attempts at growing a stable community as far as I see it. If anything we can compare this to Warzone Sandbox (as Bormiar has pointed out), where they have dealt with the precarious situation of having no password to protect them, and yet able to build up an active community for quite some time. Currently, Iran is simply filled with a bunch of issue players, puppets, and random nations, and I don't see how they are building a community. I don't know if changing the argument of the repeal would make me support the proposal, but I would like to see some attempts at rebuilding the community, or the formation of a larger group of true natives, before supporting a repeal of the liberation. At its present state, it may even look as though Iranmerica just simply wants to keep Iran for themselves.
 
Bormiar:
...but saying that TNP et al. hurt it (and it does say that, it just doesn't call us out specifically) is unsubstantiated and disingenuous fluff.
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What is unsubstantiated and disingenuous fluff is the ongoing claim that a single, vague line in this proposal targets TNP.

But you're right that it doesn't call TNP out specifically–because it doesn't. The single line of issue references raids over the span of two years, where the TNP raid in question was 1 out of 8 total raids. I'm unsure about what makes the recent TNP raid somehow more qualified to be a target than the 7 other raids that happened, to me it seems like a mystifying conclusion to come to.

And need I point out the co-author has flat out said this is not the case? I think she out of anyone would know the intended meaning of a line in this proposal.
 
Fregerson:
I want to take this time to explain why I voted against, coming from the perspective of someone not heavily involved in gameplay.
I seriously cannot see how the community would improve or grow if Iranmerica's aim is to refound and lock the region with a password to increase security.
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With a founder, a password wouldn't be needed.
 
Grea Kriopia:
What is unsubstantiated and disingenuous fluff is the ongoing claim that a single, vague line in this proposal targets TNP.

But you're right that it doesn't call TNP out specifically–because it doesn't. The single line of issue references raids over the span of two years, where the TNP raid in question was 1 out of 8 total raids. I'm unsure about what makes the recent TNP raid somehow more qualified to be a target than the 7 other raids that happened, to me it seems like a mystifying conclusion to come to.

And need I point out the co-author has flat out said this is not the case? I think she out of anyone would know the intended meaning of a line in this proposal.
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You may disagree with my argument, but it is certainly not disingenuous and I do believe it is substantiated by the vague drafting of the proposal. It is ambiguously drafted in such a manner that it is impossible to say that it definitively is not condemning our recent invasion - which was not damaging. It would be one thing if the clause were to say recent raids by The Black Hawks, but it does not say that. The interpretation is left entirely to the reader.

The co-author's intentions to not have it read that way are not relevant to how it will be interpreted by others. The clause is also irrelevant to the goal of having the region refounded. It could be removed or rewritten and you would achieve the same result.
 
Grea Kriopia:
What is unsubstantiated and disingenuous fluff is the ongoing claim that a single, vague line in this proposal targets TNP.
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You may find my WAA Minister's argument unconvincing and unsubstantiated- that's your right. What I take issue with is that you're accusing him of being disingenuous. I understand that sometimes tempers get heated, but this sort of insult is not productive to the issue at hand.
 
I can see where McM is coming from. I have seen too often how people’s intentions are irrelevant in the court of public opinion. I believe Kuriko was not trying to directly or indirectly slight TNP, but I do not believe that this will be clear to the game at large, or that certain very motivated and passionate players will see the nuance that she does.

I cannot support this draft.

Against
 
Prydania:
You may find my WAA Minister's argument unconvincing and unsubstantiated- that's your right. What I take issue with is that you're accusing him of being disingenuous. I understand that sometimes tempers get heated, but this sort of insult is not productive to the issue at hand.
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It was never my intention to call anyone personally disingenuous. I was merely repeating words that Bormiar had already said in regards to the proposal back to him and applying them to the claim that the line targets TNP.
 
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