Statement Regarding Force

[Pallaith]

Statement Regarding Force​

Embassy posting is intended to further positive relations between TNP and other regions. It is a privilege not only for our neighbors to more easily communicate with us, but for us to better connect with them. It is unacceptable for our citizens, especially those with foreign affairs experience, not only to use that privilege to engage in hostile discourse, but to do so on behalf of another region. TNP's diplomatic relations are not for other regions to use as tools for their own purposes.

We strongly condemn ABC/Renegalle’s use of TNP's embassy posting to pursue Force's diplomatic agenda, and condemn Force’s unprofessional and adversarial foreign policy. Consequently, effective immediately the forum embassy with Force will be closed. Further misuse of embassy posting by our citizens or representatives or any other region will not be tolerated.

Pallaith
Delegate of The North Pacfic

 

[Eluvatar]

Not a surprise from a government that considers its allies more important than its citizens

I'm not sure I follow.

 

[mcmasterdonia]

Not a surprise from @abc who is incapable of taking responsibility for his own actions.

 

[abc]

Not a surprise from @abc who is incapable of taking responsibility for his own actions.

I'd rather not start a useless argument with you, so maybe it'd be best to mind your own business.

 

[mcmasterdonia]

I'd rather not start a useless argument with you, so maybe it'd be best to mind your own business.

So your rights as a citizen were infringed but I, another citizen, cannot post or comment on it? I’ll comment on whatever I want thanks.

It’d be best if you fessed up and just apologised for abusing your position and invoking TNP’s name in a ridiculous vendetta with 10ki. You could have apologised to Pallaith and the region. Instead you’re trying to blame Pallaith for doing his job. I can guarantee Pallaith never wanted to be pulled into a dispute between a region as insignificant as Force, and 10ki. You made sure that he would become involved by your own actions.

It is the public’s business when someone like you is damaging our foreign policy and at the same time, is misusing a position they were barely active in to start with.

 

[abc]

So your rights as a citizen were infringed but I, another citizen, cannot post or comment on it? I’ll comment on whatever I want thanks.

It’d be best if you fessed up and just apologised for abusing your position and invoking TNP’s name in a ridiculous vendetta with 10ki. You could have apologised to Pallaith and the region. Instead you’re trying to blame Pallaith for doing his job. I can guarantee Pallaith never wanted to be pulled into a dispute between a region as insignificant as Force, and 10ki. You made sure that he would become involved by your own actions.

It is the public’s business when someone like you is damaging our foreign policy and at the same time, is misusing a position they were barely active in to start with.

I invoked TNPs name only as an example of a region XKI has embassies with. Damaging our foreign policy? Perhaps criticizing it, which is something different entirely. Pallaith didn't have to get involved, he chose to. This was a matter between Force and XKI which happened to use ABC for communication. I never said you couldn't comment, I just said that there was no need to start an argument over this.

 

[Syrixia]

Yet another controversy regarding ABC. What else is new?

 

[Owenstacey]

Very positive and bold statement @Pallaith. I commend and support your approach to this issue, citizens should not abuse their privileges as a nation within TNP to benefit other regions.

 

[St George]

I invoked TNPs name only as an example of a region XKI has embassies with. Damaging our foreign policy? Perhaps criticizing it, which is something different entirely. Pallaith didn't have to get involved, he chose to. This was a matter between Force and XKI which happened to use ABC for communication. I never said you couldn't comment, I just said that there was no need to start an argument over this.

You used TNP's embassy with XKI to post in XKI about it. How is that not abusing the embassy for the purposes of another region? You should do a better job at keeping your clearly mixed loyalties separate.

 

[abc]

You used TNP's embassy with XKI to post in XKI about it. How is that not abusing the embassy for the purposes of another region? You should do a better job at keeping your clearly mixed loyalties separate.

Abusing an embassy? That's about as much of an exaggeration as you can get. I wrote a polite, formal letter on XKI's RMB to express my concern over some of their policies. I have a right to express my concerns, do I not? It's funny honestly that you are so concerned over mixed loyalties when you are the ones taking my comments toward a foreign region so seriously. These comments are not TNP's concern, they are my own concern. Consider this: A man who happens to work for the US Government posts a tweet criticizing Saudi Arabia. Should the US remove him from the government?

 

[St George]

Abusing an embassy? That's about as much of an exaggeration as you can get. I wrote a polite, formal letter on XKI's RMB to express my concern over some of their policies. I have a right to express my concerns, do I not? It's funny honestly that you are so concerned over mixed loyalties when you are the ones taking my comments toward a foreign region so seriously. These comments are not TNP's concern, they are my own concern. Consider this: A man who happens to work for the US Government posts a tweet criticizing Saudi Arabia. Should the US remove him from the government?

You used TNP's embassy with XKI to advocate on behalf of another region. That is as close to 'abusing an embassy' as you can get in my books. You have a right to express your concerns, yes. You also have a responsibility to not use TNP - or its embassies - to promote foreign powers, which you did.

 

[Sil Dorsett]

Abusing an embassy? That's about as much of an exaggeration as you can get. I wrote a polite, formal letter on XKI's RMB to express my concern over some of their policies. I have a right to express my concerns, do I not? It's funny honestly that you are so concerned over mixed loyalties when you are the ones taking my comments toward a foreign region so seriously. These comments are not TNP's concern, they are my own concern. Consider this: A man who happens to work for the US Government posts a tweet criticizing Saudi Arabia. Should the US remove him from the government?

The most proper thing you could have done, which honestly I think a lot of people here would still say is questionable or inappropriate, would have been to make an alt and move it into XKI and make your request. If they ban that puppet, you've got your answer. At least you didn't use TNP's embassy to do it. Messages from us to them are supposed to be examples of good will between regions. Your message had absolutely nothing to do with TNP or TNP's interests.

 

[abc]

The most proper thing you could have done, which honestly I think a lot of people here would still say is questionable or inappropriate, would have been to make an alt and move it into XKI and make your request. If they ban that puppet, you've got your answer. At least you didn't use TNP's embassy to do it. Messages from us to them are supposed to be examples of good will between regions. Your message had absolutely nothing to do with TNP or TNP's interests.

Perhaps I made a mistake in using TNP's embassy, I'm willing to admit that. And I totally agree with you, this post had nothing to do with TNP. Making such a big fuss over it is illogical.

 

[St George]

By using TNP's embassy to post it, you made it about TNP - that's the issue.

 

[Dinoium]

I know I'm late for this but I wholeheartedly commend the actions that Delegate Pallaith has decided to do.

 

[Just a Lore]

Abusing an embassy? That's about as much of an exaggeration as you can get. I wrote a polite, formal letter on XKI's RMB to express my concern over some of their policies. I have a right to express my concerns, do I not? It's funny honestly that you are so concerned over mixed loyalties when you are the ones taking my comments toward a foreign region so seriously. These comments are not TNP's concern, they are my own concern. Consider this: A man who happens to work for the US Government posts a tweet criticizing Saudi Arabia. Should the US remove him from the government?

Let me re-texture this analogy to what actually happened.

Its more like Person A is the CEO of a specific company. Person A is also in the Diplomatic Service to say Germany. France bans the company because of their environmental violations and Person A with their conflict of interest goes over to the embassy in France to use the platform of the embassy to declare moral outrage because HOW DARE they have laws that this company has broken.

----

On a side note, I would like to point out that like you I am a founder of a UCR. I have held that position for over 4 years at this point. I would NEVER use any platform that TNP or any separate region I am a part of gives me to advocate for that region. Aside from how scummy that would make me for violating the trust that region puts in me, its a very clear conflict of interest because I have a baked in bias towards something I have guided and protected for so long.

When you take on the banner to represent a region you have told them that you will work in their interest. When you use that for personal gain you are slapping them in the face and saying "I will abuse my power and platform you gave me if I think I can get away with it"

 

[abc]

Let me re-texture this analogy to what actually happened.

Its more like Person A is the CEO of a specific company. Person A is also in the Diplomatic Service to say Germany. France bans the company because of their environmental violations and Person A with their conflict of interest goes over to the embassy in France to use the platform of the embassy to declare moral outrage because HOW DARE they have laws that this company has broken.

----

On a side note, I would like to point out that like you I am a founder of a UCR. I have held that position for over 4 years at this point. I would NEVER use any platform that TNP or any separate region I am a part of gives me to advocate for that region. Aside from how scummy that would make me for violating the trust that region puts in me, its a very clear conflict of interest because I have a baked in bias towards something I have guided and protected for so long.

When you take on the banner to represent a region you have told them that you will work in their interest. When you use that for personal gain you are slapping them in the face and saying "I will abuse my power and platform you gave me if I think I can get away with it"

You're framing this as something it's not, but everyone misunderstands things from time to time.

Pretty sure it's not 'scummy' or 'violating trust' to express my concerns to a foreign region. You literally have no way of framing this as personal gain as the people I was advocating on behalf of were not myself and had been kicked from the Discord on both a ridiculous policy and one that in fact, did not apply to them.

On a side note, it's no surprise that you're harassing me over something once again, considering the blatant rudeness, ignorance, and lack of formality you showed to me when I returned to this region a few months ago.

 

[Praetor]

The real scandal here is not knowing XKI's policy on raiders, they are quite public about it.

 

[Syrixia]

Sure, @abc, because when someone has a problem with shady shit you pulled they're clearly just sLaNdErInG you. I smell a logical fallacy. The bottom line is, you invoked TNP's name in a matter it had nothing to do with by embassy posting with your TNP nation, even though: 1. you are the literal fucking founder of Force, and 2. you could have easily created a puppet and moved it into 10000 Islands.

You have every right to express your concerns to a foreign region. But you should not under any means bring TNP into it because you were to lazy to make a puppet, even though that takes like 4 seconds. And the government recognized this, rightfully so. I mean, that probably wasn't even a hard decision for them because what you did is so flagrantly in violation of common sense.

This is, at the very least, the second controversy in this region caused solely and indisputably by your actions.

Sit down and shape up.

 

[Just a Lore]

You're framing this as something it's not, but everyone misunderstands things from time to time.

Pretty sure it's not 'scummy' or 'violating trust' to express my concerns to a foreign region. You literally have no way of framing this as personal gain as the people I was advocating on behalf of were not myself and had been kicked from the Discord on both a ridiculous policy and one that in fact, did not apply to them.

On a side note, it's no surprise that you're harassing me over something once again, considering the blatant rudeness, ignorance, and lack of formality you showed to me when I returned to this region a few months ago.

Yes, how dare I be so rude as to ask a question. Because all I did was ask why you left with all the melodrama you did when you returned not a week later. Other people acted less then nice about it and piled on after I made my question but my question was worded in a non-rude manner and was more then fair. Why you returned roughly 5 days after declaring that you were leaving and not coming back because of how people treated you and in doing so disrupted an election.

But that is so far outside of what is going on in this thread that I question why you brought it up.

You were a member of the FOREIGN affairs ministry. You know the one that deals with other regions. When a member of the foreign affairs ministry interacts with other regions they are on some level representing the TNP government. By criticizing a region on behalf of a region YOU OWN using an account that is DIRECTLY tied to the TNP Foreign Affairs Ministry, you abused that authority that was granted to you by misrepresenting the TNP government. If you want to interact with other regions as the founder of a UCR you can do that but you need to do it from an account that is NOT tied to TNP.

If I was going to interact with a region for my region The Versutian Federation. I sure as hell would not use my Frances Francis the First of France account, Andulus, or The Ilian Coalition. Those accounts have at various times been linked to the TNP Government. I would only consider it using any of my number of VF puppets like A VF Embassy or Versutia or A Random Anhurian Diplomatic Post.

(That is also why I clearly label my title when I am talking about certain things.

For Instance as "Lord Lore, Just a Cartographer", "Lord Lore, Just a Security Councillor", "Lord Lore, Just a Justice" [When I was a Justice I am not anymore], and etc. So that I am clearly telling people who I am and under what authority I am speaking with/for.)

 

[abc]

Sure, @abc, because when someone has a problem with shady shit you pulled they're clearly just sLaNdErInG you. I smell a logical fallacy. The bottom line is, you invoked TNP's name in a matter it had nothing to do with by embassy posting with your TNP nation, even though: 1. you are the literal fucking founder of Force, and 2. you could have easily created a puppet and moved it into 10000 Islands.

You have every right to express your concerns to a foreign region. But you should not under any means bring TNP into it because you were to lazy to make a puppet, even though that takes like 4 seconds. And the government recognized this, rightfully so. I mean, that probably wasn't even a hard decision for them because what you did is so flagrantly in violation of common sense.

This is, at the very least, the second controversy in this region caused solely and indisputably by your actions.

Sit down and shape up.

Yes, how dare I be so rude as to ask a question. Because all I did was ask why you left with all the melodrama you did when you returned not a week later. Other people acted less then nice about it and piled on after I made my question but my question was worded in a non-rude manner and was more then fair. Why you returned roughly 5 days after declaring that you were leaving and not coming back because of how people treated you and in doing so disrupted an election.

But that is so far outside of what is going on in this thread that I question why you brought it up.

You were a member of the FOREIGN affairs ministry. You know the one that deals with other regions. When a member of the foreign affairs ministry interacts with other regions they are on some level representing the TNP government. By criticizing a region on behalf of a region YOU OWN using an account that is DIRECTLY tied to the TNP Foreign Affairs Ministry, you abused that authority that was granted to you by misrepresenting the TNP government. If you want to interact with other regions as the founder of a UCR you can do that but you need to do it from an account that is NOT tied to TNP.

If I was going to interact with a region for my region The Versutian Federation. I sure as hell would not use my Frances Francis the First of France account, Andulus, or The Ilian Coalition. Those accounts have at various times been linked to the TNP Government. I would only consider it using any of my number of VF puppets like A VF Embassy or Versutia or A Random Anhurian Diplomatic Post.

(That is also why I clearly label my title when I am talking about certain things.

For Instance as "Lord Lore, Just a Cartographer", "Lord Lore, Just a Security Councillor", "Lord Lore, Just a Justice" [When I was a Justice I am not anymore], and etc. So that I am clearly telling people who I am and under what authority I am speaking with/for.)

Alright, so pretty much all this text is saying: you're angry that I used my TNP nation for this. Guess what? I already admitted to making a mistake in doing that (see below).

Perhaps I made a mistake in using TNP's embassy, I'm willing to admit that. And I totally agree with you, this post had nothing to do with TNP. Making such a big fuss over it is illogical.

My problem is not with people pointing this out, it is with people saying the same thing over and over when I thought I had already resolved their concerns. Wow.

 

[abc]

The real scandal here is not knowing XKI's policy on raiders, they are quite public about it.

To that I say: Force is not a raider region; we are independent like TNP. We do both raiding and defending. That is where the vast majority of our beef with them was.

 

[mcmasterdonia]

Alright, so pretty much all this text is saying: you're angry that I used my TNP nation for this. Guess what? I already admitted to making a mistake in doing that (see below).

My problem is not with people pointing this out, it is with people saying the same thing over and over when I thought I had already resolved their concerns. Wow.

You also ignore the fact that you listed your positions in TNP when you were trying to make 10ki backdown. You invoked those positions and your positions in the foreign ministry and your NPA experience.

It’s not that you only used your nation. It’s the whole tapestry of the way you went about it.

Why do you deny this?

There is no conspiracy ABC. Nobody is harassing you. Nobody is being unduly mean to you.

People are pissed off with you and rightly so.

To that I say: Force is not a raider region; we are independent like TNP. We do both raiding and defending. That is where the vast majority of our beef with them was.

Again that issue is between Force and 10ki. It has nothing to do with TNP. It would have remained having nothing to do with TNP until you tried to make 10ki back down by using your positions here to do so.

If your region can not stand on its own two feet, then you should just close it down and be done with it.

 

[Syrixia]

Alright, so pretty much all this text is saying: you're angry that I used my TNP nation for this. Guess what? I already admitted to making a mistake in doing that (see below).

My problem is not with people pointing this out, it is with people saying the same thing over and over when I thought I had already resolved their concerns. Wow.

"Perhaps" you made a mistake in using TNP's embassy? You're "willing" to admit that? How fucking pretentious can you get? This is not a compromise. Neither the government nor the people of TNP are not writing a treaty with you.

No. You cannot just resolve people's concerns just like that. People aren't even concerned, I'd argue- they're flat out pissed. Like I said, this is not the first time you've been the direct cause for a controversy within and/or involving our region. Your, to paraphrase Madjack, Govindian actions have caused much strife in this region over the last few months.

You will never resolve people's anger unless you shape the hell up and apologize in full for the damage you've done to this community, in its totality; from your horrendously failed speakership to flagrantly abusing embassy posting to causing one of the best Ministers of Defense we've had in a long time to resign not just his position but his citizenship. Do both of these and remain consistent and then maybe the people of this region will regain a sliver of trust in anything you do.

I'll say it again, since you didn't catch me the first time and are continuing to self-righteously deflect blame and are continuing to attempt to sweep your actions under the rug and move on as if absolutely nothing happened:

Spoiler: Image

 

[abc]

You also ignore the fact that you listed your positions in TNP when you were trying to make 10ki backdown. You invoked those positions and your positions in the foreign ministry and your NPA experience.

It’s not that you only used your nation. It’s the whole tapestry of the way you went about it.

Why do you deny this?

There is no conspiracy ABC. Nobody is harassing you. Nobody is being unduly mean to you.

People are pissed off with you and rightly so.


Again that issue is between Force and 10ki. It has nothing to do with TNP. It would have remained having nothing to do with TNP until you tried to make 10ki back down by using your positions here to do so.

If your region can not stand on its own two feet, then you should just close it down and be done with it.

Closing down my region that is successful and actually makes me happy does not seem like a good thing to do.

For reference, I invoked two positions in one telegram as part of my signature. That was the extent of it.

 

[abc]

"Perhaps" you made a mistake in using TNP's embassy? You're "willing" to admit that? How fucking pretentious can you get? This is not a compromise. Neither the government nor the people of TNP are not writing a treaty with you.

No. You cannot just resolve people's concerns just like that. People aren't even concerned, I'd argue- they're flat out pissed. Like I said, this is not the first time you've been the direct cause for a controversy within and/or involving our region. Your, to paraphrase Madjack, Govindian actions have caused much strife in this region over the last few months.

You will never resolve people's anger unless you shape the hell up and apologize in full for the damage you've done to this community, in its totality; from your horrendously failed speakership to flagrantly abusing embassy posting to causing one of the best Ministers of Defense we've had in a long time to resign not just his position but his citizenship. Do both of these and remain consistent and then maybe the people of this region will regain a sliver of trust in anything you do.

I'll say it again, since you didn't catch me the first time and are continuing to self-righteously deflect blame and are continuing to attempt to sweep your actions under the rug and move on as if absolutely nothing happened:

Spoiler: Image

I have easily apologized for my Speakership at least a dozen times.

It was a mistake, I don't know what more you want me to say.

Still, I find you love to exaggerate. That, more than anything, is the problem I have with you.