Mad Jack for Delegate

I am genuinely shocked by your response.

First, you try to excuse your comments by making a false analogy. We allow Mall to be a citizen. You are asking the region to elect you as the Delegate. The two are worlds apart.

Second, you say it is fine to betray allies by supporting coups against them, if it's fun to do so.

Can you describe under what circumstances a coup against our ally would qualify as "fun" in your view?
 
Nice twisting of my words there. I didn't say that at all and I think it's rather embarrassing on your part to try to be painting me as someone who would be in favour of supporting coups of our allies. I'm not touching your loaded questions are only designed to discredit a candidate you aren't a fan of.
 
The Senior Diplomats have for some time had very little to do and have slowly shrank over time with a lack of new introductions (me and Praetor the most recent introductions and I became a senior diplomat over a year ago when I was first appointed Deputy). If you are elected, would you have any plans to use the experience of the Senior Diplomats and give them a larger role in TNP's foreign policy?

As well as this, there has been a lack of training efforts to help develop the next generation of ambassadors which has led to many newer ambassadors being unsure of their duties and how to carry them out. If you were elected, will you look at anything to improve the training of new ambassadors to keep them interested in the ministry and maintain the high standards that we all want to see of our representatives in other regions.
I think the Senior Diplomats are an initiative that perhaps needs to be more policy based than ambassadorially (that's not a real word) based. I think having yourself and Praetor and anyone else on the Senior Diplomats be tasked with finding us new allies and partners would be a use of your time that would be more beneficial long term. In my experience, it seems ambassadors are primarily useful for posting updates to regions, with issues and important discussions handled between the delegate or the Foreign Affairs minister. I've not given changes to how we handle discussions between regions much thought, but maybe it's a conversation the Senior Diplomats, the FA Minister and the Delegate need to have together.
 
What do you see being your biggest challenge for the next term if elected?
 
Nice twisting of my words there. I didn't say that at all and I think it's rather embarrassing on your part to try to be painting me as someone who would be in favour of supporting coups of our allies. I'm not touching your loaded questions are only designed to discredit a candidate you aren't a fan of.
When the coup by Milograd against TSP happened, you were Pharaoh of Osiris, an ally of TSP. And you just said that, despite at the time being the leader of an ally of TSP, you wish you had supported a coup against them because it would have been "fun".

Given this precedent, my question was perfectly reasonable. I will grant you that you did not exactly say you will support future coups against TSP. However, the suggestion in your previous answer is pretty clear, especially given that you explicitly said you did not regret your previous comments: If another coup against TSP happened, and if that coup was "fun", then you would be supporting it, just as you wish you had supported it the last time you were leading an ally of TSP during a fun coup. They are definitely not the comments an ally would read and be reassured that the future delegate of TNP will stand by them in the event of a coup. If anything, the comments would raise concerns about whether our commitment to helping them is unconditional.

The fact that you do not recognize that making public comments in support of a coup against an ally is problematic for our foreign affairs tells me that you are not really in a position to conduct yourself when representing TNP abroad. The mature answer would have been for you to own up to the fact that you should not have posted those comments in public, and acknowledge that you will have to refrain from making such comments in the future.

Instead, not only did you not acknowledge the problem. Not only did you not express any regret. But you doubled down by justifying your support for the coup of an ally on the basis of "fun", making matters worse. And then when called out for it, you yet again refused to acknowledge your problematic comments, and instead opted to attack me for asking "loaded questions".

If an ally approaches you and asks you whether you would support a "fun" coup against them, how will you respond?
 
What do you see being your biggest challenge for the next term if elected?
Getting across my 'three sisters' concept and getting the ministries working much closer together seems to be like it might be a particular challenge, but I think the biggest challenge for the next term will be pursuing my legislative agenda in the RA.
When the coup by Milograd against TSP happened, you were Pharaoh of Osiris, an ally of TSP. And you just said that, despite at the time being the leader of an ally of TSP, you wish you had supported a coup against them because it would have been "fun".
I also fought against that coup and was a primary reason for a number of RPers not joining it and a number of RPers leaving it.

Given this precedent, my question was perfectly reasonable.h I will grant you that you did not exactly say you will support future coups against TSP. However, the suggestion in your previous answer is pretty clear, especially given that you explicitly said you did not regret your previous comments: If another coup against TSP happened, and if that coup was "fun", then you would be supporting it, just as you wish you had supported it the last time you were leading an ally of TSP during a fun coup. They are definitely not the comments an ally would read and be reassured that the future delegate of TNP will stand by them in the event of a coup. If anything, the comments would raise concerns about whether our commitment to helping them is unconditional.
This is a huge stretch and just shows how desperate you are to paint me as some kind of risk to our allies. I'm not, and it's frankly disgraceful that this is a way you've chosen to act. I've said publicly that I'm committed to our alliances and working with our allies, as anyone who attended my voice chat events can attest you. If you bothered to be around more, you'd have known that.

The fact that you do not recognize that making public comments in support of a coup against an ally is problematic for our foreign affairs tells me that you are not really in a position to conduct yourself when representing TNP abroad. The mature answer would have been for you to own up to the fact that you should not have posted those comments in public, and acknowledge that you will have to refrain from making such comments in the future.

Instead, not only did you not acknowledge the problem. Not only did you not express any regret. But you doubled down by justifying your support for the coup of an ally on the basis of "fun", making matters worse. And then when called out for it, you yet again refused to acknowledge your problematic comments, and instead opted to attack me for asking "loaded questions".
I chose not to answer your smears because I don't believe you have a valid point. You've been twisting my words in a disgusting attempt to make me seem uncommitted to our alliances, when I have a history of being committed to our allies, as borne out by my statements in this topic, on Discord and throughout my time on NationStates.

If an ally approaches you and asks you whether you would support a "fun" coup against them, how will you respond?
I will quite obviously say that I am committed to supporting our ally in such an instance.

You seizing on the word 'fun' is such a desperate leap and intentionally ignoring the context of me saying that - in comparison to the stress of fighting that coup at the time, which you'll note I did fight that coup at the time, it probably would've been more fun to have been on Milograd's side.

Actions speak louder that words r3n and out of the two of us, I've never been involved in a coup of a GCR. And since you're so well informed about the things I say in the gameplay server, why not also bring up how I've been the leading critic of Souls's actions against TSP in that very server, or would that not fit the narrative?
 
I also fought against that coup and was a primary reason for a number of RPers not joining it and a number of RPers leaving it.
You did, yes. And then you yourself denounced that legacy, by saying that you regretted not supporting Milograd instead. And when asked to address that comment, you said you stood by it.

This is a huge stretch and just shows how desperate you are to paint me as some kind of risk to our allies. I'm not, and it's frankly disgraceful that this is a way you've chosen to act. I've said publicly that I'm committed to our alliances and working with our allies, as anyone who attended my voice chat events can attest you. If you bothered to be around more, you'd have known that.
If on one day you say you are committed to supporting our allies as the leader of TNP, and on another day you say you regret helping an ally of a region you used to lead in their time of need, then this only serves to call your stated commitments into question. In our allies' eyes, you are sending mixed messages.

Also, our allies, like me, are unlikely to be in your voice chats. Where they are sure to be is in the NSGP server. And what they will see there, is the leader of TNP, posting publicly to say that he once opposed a coup against an ally, it wasn't fun, and now he regrets not joining with the coupers instead. And this would be a cause for justified concern on their end.

I chose not to answer your smears because I don't believe you have a valid point. You've been twisting my words in a disgusting attempt to make me seem uncommitted to our alliances, when I have a history of being committed to our allies, as borne out by my statements in this topic, on Discord and throughout my time on NationStates.
As I said above: Yes, you have a history of being committed to our allies. And then you chose to cast doubt on that history, on your own, by saying that you regretted helping an ally. That's the problem.

I did not post any smears, twist any words, or make any attempts (disgusting or otherwise) to misportray you. I pointed out that you have made public statements contradicting your declared commitment to assisting our allies, and asked you whether you regretted doing that. I offered you an opportunity to take the comment back and admit you should not have made those statements in public. Yet, you stood by them, and went on to make additional statements directly suggesting you would support future coups because it is fun. This suggestion is not a logical leap or a smear. It is a reasonable inference any ally reading your comments would make and be concerned about.

You seizing on the word 'fun' is such a desperate leap and intentionally ignoring the context of me saying that - in comparison to the stress of fighting that coup at the time, which you'll note I did fight that coup at the time, it probably would've been more fun to have been on Milograd's side.
First of all, you chose the word "fun", not I. I am not making any "desperate leaps" here, I am simply using your own words.

Second, OK, so by "fun" you meant "easy". How is that more reassuring for our allies? You are effectively saying that you regret opposing a coup because it was hard work, and you would have rather joined with the coupers because that would have been easier. And what are our allies to infer from this? That in their time in need, when they expect TNP's leader to put in the hard work to help them, you will ignore them. This is just as bad as any other definition of "fun" you may have meant.

Actions speak louder that words r3n and out of the two of us, I've never been involved in a coup of a GCR.
Are you accusing me of being involved in a coup of a GCR? Because that would be a lie.

And since you're so well informed about the things I say in the gameplay server, why not also bring up how I've been the leading critic of Souls's actions against TSP in that very server, or would that not fit the narrative?
I acknowledged that in my first post, by explicitly choosing to quote your mention of your criticism of Souls. My whole first question was in response to that.

The problem, yet again, is that you are casting doubt on your stance, by contradicting it with statements you made in the same server, just a few days prior.


About the minimum we expect from TNP Delegates, as far as foreign affairs go, is to say they will stand by our allies when they are couped. The minimum. A candidate saying that they will indeed support our allies is not really very remarkable. It's the least they can say about foreign affairs in a campaign, and the default position they are expected to take to even qualify as a legitimate candidate.

What is remarkable is when a candidate makes statements contradicting this minimum expectation. You did. You were then asked about those statements in your campaign. And instead of recognizing the problem and retracting the statements, or at the very least explaining them away, you made matters worse. You stood by the statements, and even went on to provide an "explanation" that creates reasonable concerns about your commitment to opposing future coups of allies.

I make three observations in this thread. First, that you either cannot recognize, or you refuse to acknowledge, that it was a mistake to publicly state you regret opposing a coup of an ally. Second, when asked about those comments, you responded with another ill-advised statement that made matters worse, by making it look like on coups you will go with the side that has it easier. And third, when confronted about this second statement, you responded with ad hominems, by angrily accusing a resident of running "disgusting" smear campaigns against you.

None of the above are behaviors I would expect from someone who aspires to lead our region. Your responses unfortunately create a picture of someone who is not fit to lead the diplomatic affairs of our region. I will not be supporting your candidacy, and I hope others will not either.
 
Following up on the above: You recently (January 5th) stated in the NSGP Discord server, in a very public manner, that you regret not supporting the 2013 coup attempt against The South Pacific by Milograd et al. It is worth noting that The North Pacific had taken a leading role in opposing that coup, a role that was acknowledged by the leadership of The South Pacific once they regained control of their region.

Do you regret making those comments?

I've also stated that multiple times over the past few years in the TNP gen server. I don't regret those comments and I stand by them tbh. That period of time was quite stressful for me due to having to work hard to prevent RPers from joining Milograd's coup and I probably would've have had much more fun if I'd supported it. Considering we allow Mall - who helped perpetrate the coup - citizenship, I'm not seeing that much of an issue with these comments.
Alright, I am Kyle, a.k.a. Brutland and Norden. Mine was the nation that took over the delegacy from Milograd on 1 May 2013 to end the coup, with the help of the South Pacific's allies, especially the North Pacific. (May I just add, I love @Eluvatar. :D ) So, I presume I'd be in a good position to express my feelings about this.

Frankly, MadJack's statements don't bother me one bit. I'm amused about the reactions of some people about MadJack's statements about the 2013 coup that they are more 'shocked' than I am. Aside from the North Pacific, MadJack's Osiris was one of the GCRs that rallied to TSP's side. I never knew MadJack back then other than a fellow RPer, but I can personally attest to him working hard to prevent RPers from joining Milograd's coup. He was our RPer's voice in the forums and in the various IRC channels. His assistance was very much valuable to the South Pacific. It was a difficult thing to do, especially for someone belonging to the NS RP community. I know, I was an RPer too. I've tried it and I've been either sneered at, or cajoled, or ignored in some of the channels where I was in.

Yes, I know where MadJack is coming from. The NS RPers are a cliquish bunch - Milograd had wielded a lot of influence in that group, that's why he was able to bring in dozens of RPer pilers. MadJack was trying to push against that current and was inviting ostracism and criticism from within the RPer community in doing so. With that said, it's easy for me to understand his statement that "I probably would've have had much more fun if I'd supported it." It doesn't bother me because I know what it means. This is what it means: if he just went with how the rest of the RPer community went, he'd have partook in the activity without all of those criticism. But MadJack chose to go against the flow, took the more difficult path, and stood up for principles and Osiris' alliance with TSP.

Which is why I am puzzled about the insinuations leveled at MadJack. For me, as his actions in 2013 showed, he chose to stick to doing his principles and honouring alliances, instead of going by his opinion or what is most fun or what is the easiest. Actions will always speak louder than words. Which is why using his words, instead of his actions, to judge him would be unfair in my opinion.
 
For you, where is the line between being popular and appearing mainly characterless and generic enough to have mass appeal and then holding and communicating your convictions in the office?
 
@St George Firstly I'd like to say I think you have some really interesting ideas in your campaign which I would like to see happen. However I think there are a number of strong candidates in this election for the Delegacy and am currently undecided who to vote for (I know I need to make up my mind shortly!) As such, whilst I know it is late in the day, I do have a few questions for you.

Firstly; in foreign affairs you mention the importance of consequence-based policy but the detail you have provided focuses mostly on WA votes and RP. I'd be interested in more detail in how you see TNP with you as Delegate engage in general diplomacy with allies, competitors or other regions and how you would make for more robust consequences in this regard, and when and where you believe this would be appropriate?

Secondly; what is the NS accomplishment (so far!) of which you are most proud? And how has this accomplishment made you a better candidate for the Delegacy?

Finally; of your platform what is the single thing which is most important for you to achieve if you are elected?
 
Last edited:
Back
Top