Have you guys heard about the DEN Script thing?

I commend the work of Eluvatar for helping identify the Predator script, and the NS admin/mod team for making this hard decision and sticking to their site rules.
 
It is always a shame when people are caught cheating. This is a game where the fun is in the playing, and if you have to cheat to win then to me it would remove the joy from victory.

I cannot help but feel that the R&D side of the game will be better in the long term once illegal scripts are removed from the game.
 
Shame about the illegal script, removing the ability of people to compete against you removes half the fun of R/D. I can't believe TBR/DEN actually had fun tagging and not even allowing Defenders the chance to even Defend.

There's some interesting things said and some precedents being set that are concerning though.

If any player above is involved in use of an illegal script in the future, they will be DOSed. If any of them attempts to avoid their WA ban, they will be DOSed. If any of them violates the rules in any way while their punishment is in effect, we will at a minimum extend the WA ban by a further 3 months, and potentially DOS them. You are all on extremely thin ice. If any other player attempts to help one of the above evade their punishment, they will find themselves punished severely, potentially including being DOSed.

The creation or development of DEN or Cimmeria themed successor regions is equally prohibited until such time as we determine otherwise.
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Both of the above are pretty worrying. What does "DEN or Cimmeria themed successor regions" exactly entail, is this banning any and all potential tag-raiding regions, does this mean any region that has the banned players in position of power are liable to being destroyed?

The thin ice and DoS threatening just doesn't sit right with me.

I don't think these punishments and the whole situation leaves anyone satisfied.
 
Good on the NS Mods. I knew for a while there was gonna be some point DEN would go too far. TBR did something too far too, if I recall.
 
Thomas Insaniac:
Shame about the illegal script, removing the ability of people to compete against you removes half the fun of R/D. I can't believe TBR/DEN actually had fun tagging and not even allowing Defenders the chance to even Defend.

There's some interesting things said and some precedents being set that are concerning though.

If any player above is involved in use of an illegal script in the future, they will be DOSed. If any of them attempts to avoid their WA ban, they will be DOSed. If any of them violates the rules in any way while their punishment is in effect, we will at a minimum extend the WA ban by a further 3 months, and potentially DOS them. You are all on extremely thin ice. If any other player attempts to help one of the above evade their punishment, they will find themselves punished severely, potentially including being DOSed.

The creation or development of DEN or Cimmeria themed successor regions is equally prohibited until such time as we determine otherwise.
Click to expand...

Both of the above are pretty worrying. What does "DEN or Cimmeria themed successor regions" exactly entail, is this banning any and all potential tag-raiding regions, does this mean any region that has the banned players in position of power are liable to being destroyed?

The thin ice and DoS threatening just doesn't sit right with me.

I don't think these punishments and the whole situation leaves anyone satisfied.
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Based on some of the comments on the NS forums everyone seems to be concerned.
 
Sad part is that recent game changes gave somewhat of an edge to the Raider side anyway and they still had to cheat. The region s may be gone put the players and groups will reform somewhere, somehow under new names and new regions and the game goes on.
 
QuietDad:
Sad part is that recent game changes gave somewhat of an edge to the Raider side anyway and they still had to cheat. The region s may be gone put the players and groups will reform somewhere, somehow under new names and new regions and the game goes on.
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They didn't have to cheat (if they did R/D wouldn't exist), they wanted to. Just shows the morality of raiders.
 
Hiskjriaana:
QuietDad:
Sad part is that recent game changes gave somewhat of an edge to the Raider side anyway and they still had to cheat. The region s may be gone put the players and groups will reform somewhere, somehow under new names and new regions and the game goes on.
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They didn't have to cheat (if they did R/D wouldn't exist), they wanted to. Just shows the morality of raiders.
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Please, we're not all cheating puppy killers. I hadn't even heard of Predator before this whole fiasco started.
 
Thomas Insaniac:
Please, we're not all cheating puppy killers. I hadn't even heard of Predator before this whole fiasco started.
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The whole point was for people not to hear about it :duh: I didn't intend to say that all raiders are as bad as the ones who use scripts, just that anyone who raids is somewhere on the spectrum of bad-ness.
 
Hiskjriaana:
Thomas Insaniac:
Please, we're not all cheating puppy killers. I hadn't even heard of Predator before this whole fiasco started.
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The whole point was for people not to hear about it :duh: I didn't intend to say that all raiders are as bad as the ones who use scripts, just that anyone who raids is somewhere on the spectrum of bad-ness.
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I'm going to have to disagree with you there, buddy. Raiders are not necessarily "bad" and defenders are not necessarily "good". Like conservatives and liberals, one might find the other a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad person, and think themselves to be an angelic figure, while in actuality, they are both just ideologies with two contradicting mindsets.

In short, you'd be surprised to find some very kind raiders, and defenders who are asses. After all, these are ideologies, with people being on a spectrum of the two. ;)
 
Bootsie:
I'm going to have to disagree with you there, buddy. Raiders are not necessarily "bad" and defenders are not necessarily "good". Like conservatives and liberals, one might find the other a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad person, and think themselves to be an angelic figure, while in actuality, they are both just ideologies with two contradicting mindsets.

In short, you'd be surprised to find some very kind raiders, and defenders who are asses. After all, these are ideologies, with people being on a spectrum of the two. ;)
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Unless they only target defender regions, raiding is bad by definition. It's literally barging into someone's home, kicking them out, burning it down and then leaving (or if they're really bad then they stay and build a building on the ashes dedicated to the destruction of other homes). Yes there are some defenders who perform morally skewed "liberations", but the whole reason defending exists is to prevent raiders from doing what was just described.
 
Hiskjriaana:
Bootsie:
I'm going to have to disagree with you there, buddy. Raiders are not necessarily "bad" and defenders are not necessarily "good". Like conservatives and liberals, one might find the other a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad person, and think themselves to be an angelic figure, while in actuality, they are both just ideologies with two contradicting mindsets.

In short, you'd be surprised to find some very kind raiders, and defenders who are asses. After all, these are ideologies, with people being on a spectrum of the two. ;)
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Unless they only target defender regions, raiding is bad by definition. It's literally barging into someone's home, kicking them out, burning it down and then leaving (or if they're really bad then they stay and build a building on the ashes dedicated to the destruction of other homes). Yes there are some defenders who perform morally skewed "liberations", but the whole reason defending exists is to prevent raiders from doing what was just described.
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What about going after hateful Nazi or fascist regions?
 
Only a matter of time before this thread arrived here :P.

Whilst the show punishment and region deletion is a good example of what happens to those who cheat in this game, I agree with the people in the thread and that the overreaching effects on regions unaffiliated with DEN, such as the historical regions mentioned and Wolf's The DEN, is quite unfair. Especially when it has been proved that they had nothing to do with the DEN that was removed. :/
 
The people who has made the assumption that Raiders = Bad and evil and Defenders = Good and nice, are just too immature for the game. They are simple sides to a gameplay option this game offers (one of the very few) and the rest is just spicing it up with fake philosophical arguments (perhaps fake is a strong word, but I mean they are just faux versions of real life ideals and principles that don't truly reflect the "reality" of the game, they are adapted to do so).

Raiders and Defenders are in the end just PLAYERS of the game, many people (I include myself) have done both sides from time to time or even in parallel and we are neither better nor worse people for doing so.

Hell, in WoW people doesn't assume those who play HORDE are evil and those who play ALLIANCE are good. They just play the factions of the game and be gone with your immature justification of good and evil for your choices.
 
Having done both, and with friends and enemies on both sides, I'd still say raiding takes at the very least an element of not caring about the regions you're raiding and the damage you do to them. That doesn't make raiders bad people, but it does make raiding a bad part of the game.
 
Elegarth:
The people who has made the assumption that Raiders = Bad and evil and Defenders = Good and nice, are just too immature for the game.
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To be fair, if Immaturity was cut out of nationstates the game would be a wasteland.
 
flemingovia:
Elegarth:
The people who has made the assumption that Raiders = Bad and evil and Defenders = Good and nice, are just too immature for the game.
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To be fair, if Immaturity was cut out of nationstates the game would be a wasteland.
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I wholeheartedly agree with you Flem... and that is on and by itself weird :p
 
flemingovia:
It is always a shame when people are caught cheating. This is a game where the fun is in the playing, and if you have to cheat to win then to me it would remove the joy from victory.

I cannot help but feel that the R&D side of the game will be better in the long term once illegal scripts are removed from the game.
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It's an even bigger shame when people cheat and don't get caught. To paraphrase Agatha to apply to NS, imagine how much cheating goes on which goes entirely unnoticed and undetected.

I remember, in the game "Cybernations" a few people used a script to run their nations' war waging features without human intervention.
 
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