TNP For A Cure!
- Thread starter Syrixia
- Start date
I saw, thank you! I still need a few more people, even - especially smaller nations, and anybody not on US time. Please think about it!
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- Zemnaya Svoboda
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- Eluvatar#8517
So the two... less-free feeders, The Pacific and The West Pacific are really beating our pants off at this by ejecting their exporters swiftly and mercilessly.
Our laws generally allow this, but our Delegates have been uncomfortable ejecting nations during zombie day without their being clear-cut trolls coming in from outside: long-time nations choosing to Export have been tolerated. With changes to how Zombie Day works, however, Exporters have been made much more effective, and I think there's really no way to cure a good part of the region without kicking them out.
As we consider laws about Border Control powers, we may want to have a conversation about whether, as a region, we think it's okay for the Delegate and/or Security Council to eject nations for exporting zombies during zombie day. (Obviously, they'd be let back in once it's over).
Our laws generally allow this, but our Delegates have been uncomfortable ejecting nations during zombie day without their being clear-cut trolls coming in from outside: long-time nations choosing to Export have been tolerated. With changes to how Zombie Day works, however, Exporters have been made much more effective, and I think there's really no way to cure a good part of the region without kicking them out.
As we consider laws about Border Control powers, we may want to have a conversation about whether, as a region, we think it's okay for the Delegate and/or Security Council to eject nations for exporting zombies during zombie day. (Obviously, they'd be let back in once it's over).
Yes, it's been fun booting buggers from TWP.
I'm disappointed that here things have not gone as well. But I think the key is developing the cure as quickly as possible and that requires nations researching the cure and then zombie cleaners of the big nations.
I think getting rid of exterminators is part of it but I think the biggest impact has been large nations searching for the cure and keeping those guys clean as possible.
I'm disappointed that here things have not gone as well. But I think the key is developing the cure as quickly as possible and that requires nations researching the cure and then zombie cleaners of the big nations.
I think getting rid of exterminators is part of it but I think the biggest impact has been large nations searching for the cure and keeping those guys clean as possible.
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I think we've been fairly good with cleaning the large researchers...
I want to make sure my matter of factness isn't coming off as rude.
What I'm trying to say is that the key is have large researchers and keep those guys relatively free (under 1b) of zombies. If that doesn't happen right away then it can get very difficult to keep the zombies in check.
In TWP, people worked throughout the night and still when I woke up in the am we had a few nations that had 4b in zombies. A mistake we made was we didn't cure the small nations that had high rates of zombies. That got us a lot of dead earlier today.
This thing is a lot of fun, i'm glad it started on a friday too for the working chumps who play NS
What I'm trying to say is that the key is have large researchers and keep those guys relatively free (under 1b) of zombies. If that doesn't happen right away then it can get very difficult to keep the zombies in check.
In TWP, people worked throughout the night and still when I woke up in the am we had a few nations that had 4b in zombies. A mistake we made was we didn't cure the small nations that had high rates of zombies. That got us a lot of dead earlier today.
This thing is a lot of fun, i'm glad it started on a friday too for the working chumps who play NS
Gracius Maximus
Tyrant (Ret.)
Hmm.Eluvatar:
From what I can see, The Pacific has ejected 15 nations over the course of the zombie event in total (among all nations with Border Control access) while TNP has ejected 5.
With populations of over 6000 nations the difference between 0.0025% and 0.0008% does seem like a sufficient reason for them to have a 99.8% cure rate and us to be at 51.5%.
Also, The Pacific seems to be doing it without fancy toys...
Weird.
Gracius Maximus was ejected from the region during last year's event for exporting. I am not sure why it hasn't been treated similarly this time around.
We should amend the Legal Code then. This is impractical. I'm a liberal in most cases but I also firmly believe in simple common sense. Are nations exporting? Kick them out. Do they have lots of endorsements? Threaten to kick them if they don't stop exporting. Are they in important positions? Threaten to take those away.
Wake up call, TNP government. Put your foot down. This is not normal politics. This is a ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE.
Wake up call, TNP government. Put your foot down. This is not normal politics. This is a ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE.
falapatorius
TNPer
I find the fanaticism of the cure lobby disturbing. I watched as posts on the RMB supporting embracing the zombies were summarily suppressed, and some exporters were threatened with banjection. I am disgusted by the idea of curtailing democratic freedoms just for a mini-game that happens once a year.Syrixia:
Says the person who earlier today was an exporter himself.falapatorius:
The so-called "fanaticism of the cure lobby" is a rather amusing remark for an Attorney General to make. Look at regions like TP and TWP. Their responses to exporters are quick and effective. If we are to provide a safe haven for nations, especially considering that we are THE LARGEST FEEDER, then we must join these regions in their protocols of exporter response.
It's PRACTICAL.
falapatorius
TNPer
Wrong. I chose extermination from the start. Could've wiped you out if I wanted to.Syrixia:
falapatorius:
This is just a game guys let's not forget that. If you want to go for hordes, do that. TNP ended up with 2.37t survivorse which I didn't think was possible at parts yesterday, so that's not too bad imo.
I wish we were fighting against zombies all the time because i'd be much more interested on a game side of things.
I wish we were fighting against zombies all the time because i'd be much more interested on a game side of things.
Gracius Maximus
Tyrant (Ret.)
Right, it is just a game with actually fairly clear objectives. Last year when I was removed for hording I did not take it personally, did not claim a violation of my rights and once it was over I just returned to the region. Because it is just a game. We shouldn't have to codify things like this on the offsite because it is part of the onsite game mechanics, which we have to conform to anyway.
This is one of the reasons I am largely uncomfortable banning people. Of the seven ejections and bans that I imposed, three were people who took advantage of the keycode entry to move newly exporting nations in, and two of those did so several times before I finally banned them. The other was Ivan's TWP nation, which I banned immediately.falapatorius:
Of the remaining four, each was contacted before being banned, and the one that changed its stance was allowed back in during the event. The other three neither switched nor responded, but were actively hording at other nations despite my PM.
On top of those, I sent a number of telegrams to exporting nations asking them to stop hording people. Several of these people switched their choice, and others were killed off instead of being banned.
I know some people, probably yourself included, were annoyed about me using the threat of banning, but I do think I was restrained in actually carrying out that threat wherever possible.
There is no need to amend the Legal Code, as it already allows for bans during a disease outbreak. Requiring bans would be a mistake, as it could require the delegate spend more influence than they even have, and imposing criminal consequences like loss of position is not a proportional response.Syrixia:
The problem with your demand, particularly when it comes to DD, is that it would be foolhardy for me to spend a huge chunk of my influence banning a security council member from the region for what is a temporary event without genuine consequences. That would be a massive overreaction and would cause TNP to be less safe as a result.
Here's my question: Is it less fun for someone to be banned from a region, but still able to participate in the mini-game, than it is for their whole population to be killed off so that they're unable to participate at all? Because those are our two options when it comes to dealing with exporters, and I really don't know which they'd prefer.
Being locked out seems less fun to me... but then, sending hordes at people doesn't seem very fun to me either. I'm not in a position to say which approach is better overall, but the latter is what we're left with when banning is off the table - I'm not sure if opponents of bans have considered that.
falapatorius
TNPer
I got the impression others wanted you to be more heavy-handed though. Syrixia wanted me banjected. I wasn't even exporting. It seems the curers are going to get their way eventually though.. either through legislation, threat of ejection, the use of scripts, or non-curers will just go afk for the event.Silly String:
I've been thinking for a bit. We must choose between either being as effective as possible but at the cost of curtailing democratic freedoms; or keeping democratic freedoms intact, but at the cost of having more zombies in the region.
Since, obviously, we cannot have one or the other, or especially not both, I recommend we go Buddha next year and try to find a midway between both ways of handling the zombie apocalypse.
Since, obviously, we cannot have one or the other, or especially not both, I recommend we go Buddha next year and try to find a midway between both ways of handling the zombie apocalypse.
That's definitely true. I got a fair amount of pushing to ban more people. Luckily I'm very stubborn.falapatorius:
We ejected some in TWP but there wasn't an impact to influence. But I also believe our delegate didn't eject any or maybe just a couple. I ejected 4-5 myself and my influence level didn't drop a bit. Most nations in TWP were intent on researching the cure b/c it had been something decided earlier. I know you send a TG out to the group at large but it wasn't a unified let's do this. It did leave it up to the nation. So in that case relocating (trademark Gracius Maximus) nations to the rejected realms doesn't work since you've established it being ok to research methods other than the cure.
I do believe that if next year we in TNP decide to go for the cure and are up front with not wanting people to research other methods of dealing with the zombies it can be done and with little impact to influence.
I think you tried to find the midway this year and these were the results.
falapatorius
TNPer
Silly String:That's definitely true. I got a fair amount of pushing to ban more people. Luckily I'm very stubborn.
.. and here I was hoping it was because of an awareness of the varying attitudes in TNP.Being ejected is an obvious buzz-kill, but hording is hella fun actually.Silly String:
I approach the event as a war with 3 possible choices (factions if you will). It shouldn't be about what the government wants because the Delegate and BCOs can 'godmod' any dissenters out of the region (akin to nuking from orbit.. just to be sure ). Someone may bring up the poll that was conducted, but it's hardly representative of the region. Horders are wary enough to not vote in that, lest they be targeted for ejection and/or cure-bombing/extermination. Here's what I've done for the Zompocalypse the 3 times I've participated:Year 1 - Curing. Was online for most of it. Had fun.
Year 2 - Hording. Could've done more damage, but I was put off by passage of the ridiculous Disease Control Act.
Year 3 - Exterminating. I've a feeling I could be the Champion Exterminator this year.
Anyway.. it's 36 hour mini-game, let people do what they want. Be creative and come up with strategies (no.. not scripts) to further whatever cause you choose. I know I have.
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- Eluvatar#8517
falapatorius:
I disagree with your view that scripts are uncreative, entirely.
falapatorius
TNPer
Fair enough. But I'm sure those in the gaming community who create wallhacks, aimbots, mutators, etc. think of themselves as 'creative'. Good thing there are server admins to kick them to the curb (in some games' servers anyway). Cheating is for noobs and score-wh**es.Eluvatar:
- TNP Nation
- McMasterdonia
There is always huge pressure on the Delegate to kick anyone who doesn't do what they are doing. I'm glad we don't go TWP's route and have mass-ejections.. I jokingly said to DD that I would enjoy banning him xD but you're right, it is more fun for everyone if we keep ejections to a minimum. We don't want anyone walking away from the game because of Zombie day. Fun should be the priority.
falapatorius
TNPer
Agreed. If the fun gets ejected, I'm out. Spamming the cure button with no resistance is boring as hell.mcmasterdonia:
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falapatorius:
falapatorius
TNPer
TNL just posted the awards, looks like Merc beat you:falapatorius:Year 3 - Exterminating. I've a feeling I could be the Champion Exterminator this year.
http://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=514952
(Shameless advertisement for the awards dispatch that you should all upvote
.)
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- Eluvatar#8517
In seeking to understand how the West Pacific and the Pacific did so much better than I expected, and than we did, I have made some charts.
In these charts, the x axis is the number of days since the last login and the y axis is the population in millions. Data reflects the major update between October 30th and October 31st. The tiles are 1/4 day wide and 100 population tall, and colored reflecting the number of nations in that range.
I selected the regions in the top 10 by most survivors and by most survivors with no infected from the Z-day tally.
I suspect that analysis of these pictures, particularly comparing us to the west pacific and the pacific, may be useful.
In these charts, the x axis is the number of days since the last login and the y axis is the population in millions. Data reflects the major update between October 30th and October 31st. The tiles are 1/4 day wide and 100 population tall, and colored reflecting the number of nations in that range.
I selected the regions in the top 10 by most survivors and by most survivors with no infected from the Z-day tally.
I suspect that analysis of these pictures, particularly comparing us to the west pacific and the pacific, may be useful.
You'll have to use fancy maths for that, because to me they look the same.Eluvatar:
Falap: It's not that I wasn't aware that there was a variety of viewpoints, but more that I personally felt that ejecting a lot of people over a minigame was wrong - both in a "this is unnecessarily punitive" sense and in a "this will reflect badly on TNP and ultimately hurt us" one. In an actual emergency (like a coordinated attempt for the delegacy), I would be much less resistant to ejecting and banning nations involved.
I have nothing substantial to add except that
I HAD SO MUCH FUN!!!!!!
I HAD SO MUCH FUN!!!!!!
It was fun doing everything at the same time. 