Formal Complaint to the Government of TNP

Writinglegend

Writinglegend

TNPer
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It is with regret that the Coalition of The South Pacific, the Republic of Europeia, and the Realm of Albion must issue a formal complaint to the Region of The North Pacific for their conduct regarding confidential discussions with regards to the Realm of Balder and their acknowledgement of confidential actions to all TNP citizens.

In the beginning of June the governments of Albion, The South Pacific, and Europeia were contacted by the Government of The North Pacific to attend a private conference regarding concerns about the direction and transparency of Balder. The confidentiality of the conference was given paramount focus, and the bulk of the impetus for secrecy came from The North Pacific who insisted the matter was not discussed outside of the attending delegation. At the conference a statement was drafted by the delegates of The North Pacific and later altered through discussion amongst the delegates, noting shared concerns over recent changes within the region and questions about the nature of those changes.

The final statement received signatures from all four regions under the condition that this would be a private statement sent only to Queen Rach of Balder, detailing our concerns and questions with the recent developments in Balder. Today, the governments of our three respective regions are disappointed to discover that this condition has not been fulfilled by The North Pacific.

It has come to the attention of the governments undersigned that the Government of The North Pacific, contrary to the mutual agreement, has acknowledged both the statement and conference between our regions in the private portion of their Regional Assembly which holds an expansive membership. They posted these on July 28th, and only then chose to discuss the matter with the undersigned regions, if contacted at all. Compounding this issue is the fact that their approach to our regions the day afterward was under the guise of asking our permission to divulge to their citizens the conference and statement, despite having already done so without consultation. Once permission was not granted it was only then revealed the confidential statement and conference were already acknowledged in a post by Delegate Eluvatar that furthered their argument to repeal their treaty with Balder.

The governments of our three regions are saddened that The North Pacific would publish these details without our mutual consent, and greatly displeased at the contempt shown to us by their government in their pretense of asking permission for an act already committed, and only after acknowledging they already posted. The North Pacific has had strong relations for years with our three regions, and for their elected government to conduct themselves in such a manner is disappointing.

It is our mutual desire to issue this formal complaint in order to make clear our grievances and call for a prompt response from the government of The North Pacific, inclusive of an explanation for their actions and an apology to our respective regions in redress of these ills. All parties note that we respect the right of The North Pacific to conduct its own foreign affairs and enter into or terminate treaties with regions as they desire according to their own internal decision-making processes, but we do not respect the breach of trust displayed nor the abuse of our good faith in participating in the conference merely to reinforce a treaty repeal within their Regional Assembly.

Our hope is that this will be an isolated event in an otherwise long and fruitful friendship amongst our regions.

Signed,

Writinglegend
President of Europeia
Anumia
Foreign Minister of Europeia
Feirmont
Delegate of The South Pacific
Hileville
Foreign Minister of The South Pacific
Charles Cerebella
King of Albion
Olivia
Knight Foreign of Albion
 
How were the signatories made aware of the discussions in the private halls and how were they aware of the day that this information was posted? It concerns me that a citizen may have leaked this private and confidential information shared by our delegate to the private area of our assembly.

Even if the Delegate should not have shared that information, the confidentiality of our private halls is important to us.
 
The fact that so-called allies are conducting espionage against TNP is worrying. Just who exactly told of you of what you allege?
 
Julian Anumia:
You can understand why we were concerned about it being posted there in the first place.
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No, not really.

The Regional Assembly is the foundation of the government here in TNP. Things posted within the private section are done so for a reason.

What parties having access to this information was cause for concern, specifically? From what I can see, only our 'allies' have taken that information and utilized it for their own ends.
 
Julian Anumia:
You can understand why we were concerned about it being posted there in the first place.
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That doesn't answer the question. We have a right to know and be concerned about who has been leaking private information from the private area of our assembly. It is not a public forum. It is no different to the situation where Ravania leaked private information from the NPA area. It's not unreasonable to expect our allies to tell our government who has been spying on our private forum.

The prudent approach would have been for these allies to speak to the government privately about this matter. Making a public spectacle about it simply draws more attention to the issue. Indeed this part of the forum is also a public area, so the signatories have also further spread these private discussions into a more public arena.

Very disappointing to say the least. I have no idea who most of these signatories are, but I would have thought you and Hileville would have seen the merit of dealing with this disagreement privately.
 
Extremely disappointing, especially as there are clauses in our treaties with the above three regions against spying on one another...
 
If it was in the Assembly, any citizen--- including one with citizenship elsewhere--- could easily have reported it to another regional government. It seems ridiculous to me to assume that everyone in the Assembly can be trusted not to go and tell a region they may have greater loyalty to.
 
Nebula:
If it was in the Assembly, any citizen--- including one with citizenship elsewhere--- could easily have reported it to another regional government. It seems ridiculous to me to assume that everyone in the Assembly can be trusted not to go and tell a region they may have greater loyalty to.
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The point we're making is that it would be considered espionage. It is expected that all citizens of TNP keep information that they read in the private halls.. in the private halls. If they cannot separate the two then they should not be citizens.
 
Statement:
It has come to the attention of the governments undersigned that the Government of The North Pacific, contrary to the mutual agreement, has acknowledged both the statement and conference between our regions in the private portion of their Regional Assembly which holds an expansive membership. They posted these on July 28th, and only then chose to discuss the matter with the undersigned regions, if contacted at all. Compounding this issue is the fact that their approach to our regions the day afterward was under the guise of asking our permission to divulge to their citizens the conference and statement, despite having already done so without consultation. Once permission was not granted it was only then revealed the confidential statement and conference were already acknowledged in a post by Delegate Eluvatar that furthered their argument to repeal their treaty with Balder.
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Response to Formal Complaint of August 11th, 2015

(to The North Pacific by Europeia, the South Pacific, and Albion)
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On July 29th, it became clear to me that on the previous day a miscommunication had occurred between TNP and Europeia. I had assumed that it went without saying that The North Pacific is obliged to explain its foreign policy to its citizens; at the very least, after the fact. While Europeia and The North Pacific do share democratic systems of government, I should have recognized that they would have distinct traditions of foreign policy, and thus that the ultimate necessity of at least limited descriptive disclosure on our part did not go without saying.

Upon realizing this, I immediately communicated in some detail to Europeia what we had in fact privately disclosed, by that point, to the Regional Assembly. I made clear that we sought permission to provide further details, but that we had already shared certain bare facts in the private halls of the Regional Assembly. It is now clear I should also have explained in depth why the miscommunication had occurred. Without those explanations, the purpose of my actions was left unclear.

For my part in those, and any related miscommunications, I must apologize.

I cannot apologize for any other accusations in this complaint. While I would love to explain, in detail, why each and every one of those accusations is exaggerated and inappropriate, doing so would be a distraction from the central point:

My government is stunned by the tenor and public nature of this complaint. Not only does it disclose the very matters Europeia preferred to be kept confidential to public view, not only does it questionably reveal details which were only discussed in The North Pacific Regional Assembly Private Halls (and private executive areas), but it alleges bad faith on the part of The North Pacific. That is not how we would expect concerns to be aired between allies. We would expect public communications not to go so far beyond concerns aired in private in tenor or detail.

We, too, hope that this is an isolated incident in an otherwise unblemished record of friendship.

Sincerely,
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Eluvatar
Delegate, The North Pacific
 
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I thank the delegate for his statement on the matter. From the perspective of Albion, we have full trust in the Delegate and his government. We certainly entertain no notion that this was anything other than a genuine mistake with absolutely no bad faith though we do still stress the importance of ensuring that when conducting private multi-lateral talks, all parties are on the same page. I hope we can draw a line under this matter now without anger or recrimination on either side and all parties can move forward from this with our alliances stronger than ever. Albion certainly looks forward to future cooperation with The North Pacific on all kinds of matters, great and small.
 
Nierr:
The fact that so-called allies are conducting espionage against TNP is worrying. Just who exactly told of you of what you allege?
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As our formal complaint and the Delegate's own response will show, it was Eluvatar speaking to our President. It came from there, not a leak nor espionage.

McMasterdonia:
The prudent approach would have been for these allies to speak to the government privately about this matter. Making a public spectacle about it simply draws more attention to the issue. Indeed this part of the forum is also a public area, so the signatories have also further spread these private discussions into a more public arena.

Very disappointing to say the least. I have no idea who most of these signatories are, but I would have thought you and Hileville would have seen the merit of dealing with this disagreement privately.
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We tried. In a Skype conversation with the Delegate and Foreign Minister, and their counterparts in Europeia and TSP (Albion said they were happy to be kept in the loop), we awaited a response to the most pertinent of our queries - why any details were posted in the first place before contacting us about it, for just under a full week before posting this complaint.
 
Julian Anumia:
Nierr:
The fact that so-called allies are conducting espionage against TNP is worrying. Just who exactly told of you of what you allege?
Click to expand...

As our formal complaint and the Delegate's own response will show, it was Eluvatar speaking to our President. It came from there, not a leak nor espionage.

McMasterdonia:
The prudent approach would have been for these allies to speak to the government privately about this matter. Making a public spectacle about it simply draws more attention to the issue. Indeed this part of the forum is also a public area, so the signatories have also further spread these private discussions into a more public arena.

Very disappointing to say the least. I have no idea who most of these signatories are, but I would have thought you and Hileville would have seen the merit of dealing with this disagreement privately.
Click to expand...

We tried. In a Skype conversation with the Delegate and Foreign Minister, and their counterparts in Europeia and TSP (Albion said they were happy to be kept in the loop), we awaited a response to the most pertinent of our queries - why any details were posted in the first place before contacting us about it, for just under a full week before posting this complaint.
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So Eluvatar told your President the actual date of the original posting? I am fairly certain the Delegate said no such thing.
 
Julian Anumia:
Nierr:
The fact that so-called allies are conducting espionage against TNP is worrying. Just who exactly told of you of what you allege?
Click to expand...

As our formal complaint and the Delegate's own response will show, it was Eluvatar speaking to our President. It came from there, not a leak nor espionage.
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Lol.
 
Gracius Maximus:
In your opinion, what was the 'mistake' that was made?
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In our view there has been a mistake of miscommunication as Eluvatar has said. Albion has throughout taken the stance towards both TNP and Europeia that in the matter of revealing details of the conference, it should be done in a manner that all parties are happy and content with. Unfortunately, this has not happened, thus Albion's signature on the statement. We're nevertheless of the opinion that there was nothing done that didn't have the best of intentions behind it and we hope that all regions can come out of this with our alliances stronger than before
 
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I would like to note that I have privately messaged Delegate Eluvatar in regards to how we came up with the date of the 28th. It was not received by any means via espionage/spying. We have a treaty with TNP and a commitment to follow that treaty. That same treaty has a clause about espionage, and we have no intent on breaking that at -any- time. With regards to the private message I sent to Delegate Eluvatar, it deals with multiple classified things in the conference and logs from our discussion.

Here are the three things, I will speak with them in a broad manner:

1. A skype message from Elu to me in regards to TNP maintaining their alliance with Balder.
2. A post in the private conference on the 28th that made it seem the motion to repeal the treaty began.
3. The use of past tense in my discussions with Delegate Eluvatar when talking about the release in the private portion of the RA on the 29th.

I can now only leave the door open to Delegate Eluvatar in regards to assuring the community with what information he has received from me on how we garnered that date that we, in no way, spied to receive that information.

So Eluvatar told your President the actual date of the original posting? I am fairly certain the Delegate said no such thing.
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No, Delegate Eluvatar did not give me the actual date of posting. However, as noted above, we got this date via deduction from the information that was presented to us. The only thing Delegate Eluvatar told me was that a) They privately acknowledged the conference and statement in the private portion of the Regional Assembly; and b) What was contained inside of that message he posted.
The prudent approach would have been for these allies to speak to the government privately about this matter. Making a public spectacle about it simply draws more attention to the issue. Indeed this part of the forum is also a public area, so the signatories have also further spread these private discussions into a more public arena.

Very disappointing to say the least. I have no idea who most of these signatories are, but I would have thought you and Hileville would have seen the merit of dealing with this disagreement privately.
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And we absolutely attempted to. If we were going to jump right into a public statement we would've done that two weeks ago when this whole thing started. On multiple occasions we attempted to privately contact the government of The North Pacific for answers. In a Skype chat with Raven and Delegate Eluvatar we never got a solid response to our answer of no not to publish anything. A week later, with TSP government officials also in the chat (who tried reaching out), we attempted to get a solid response to why they posted these in the private portion of their Regional Assembly without fully discussing it with all parties first. We have still yet to receive an answer to that question in that chat.

We were very concerned by this lack of response and thought the next resort would be a public statement to get that answer, and it seems that we have gotten it. So, in no way did we not try and publicly communicate before resorting to this public statement. If we would've received private answers it is highly likely this statement wouldn't be up.

Above all of this I would like to express by thanks to Delegate Eluvatar for answering our concerns regarding this in a prompt manner. I hope we can draw a line under this matter now without anger or recrimination on either side and all parties can move forward from this with our alliances stronger than ever.
 
The South Pacific would like to thank the Delegate of TNP for a quick response. We continue to consider TNP one of our closest allies and have complete trust in TNP's Delegate and Government. We have no reason to believe this was anything more than a miscommunication. We look forward to putting this issue behind and continuing to strengthen our alliance ahead.
 
Writinglegend:
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I would like to note that I have privately messaged Delegate Eluvatar in regards to how we came up with the date of the 28th. It was not received by any means via espionage/spying. We have a treaty with TNP and a commitment to follow that treaty. That same treaty has a clause about espionage, and we have no intent on breaking that at -any- time. With regards to the private message I sent to Delegate Eluvatar, it deals with multiple classified things in the conference and logs from our discussion.

Here are the three things, I will speak with them in a broad manner:

1. A skype message from Elu to me in regards to TNP maintaining their alliance with Balder.
2. A post in the private conference on the 28th that made it seem the motion to repeal the treaty began.
3. The use of past tense in my discussions with Delegate Eluvatar when talking about the release in the private portion of the RA on the 29th.

I can now only leave the door open to Delegate Eluvatar in regards to assuring the community with what information he has received from me on how we garnered that date that we, in no way, spied to receive that information.

So Eluvatar told your President the actual date of the original posting? I am fairly certain the Delegate said no such thing.
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No, Delegate Eluvatar did not give me the actual date of posting. However, as noted above, we got this date via deduction from the information that was presented to us. The only thing Delegate Eluvatar told me was that a) They privately acknowledged the conference and statement in the private portion of the Regional Assembly; and b) What was contained inside of that message he posted.
The prudent approach would have been for these allies to speak to the government privately about this matter. Making a public spectacle about it simply draws more attention to the issue. Indeed this part of the forum is also a public area, so the signatories have also further spread these private discussions into a more public arena.

Very disappointing to say the least. I have no idea who most of these signatories are, but I would have thought you and Hileville would have seen the merit of dealing with this disagreement privately.
Click to expand...
And we absolutely attempted to. If we were going to jump right into a public statement we would've done that two weeks ago when this whole thing started. On multiple occasions we attempted to privately contact the government of The North Pacific for answers. In a Skype chat with Raven and Delegate Eluvatar we never got a solid response to our answer of no not to publish anything. A week later, with TSP government officials also in the chat (who tried reaching out), we attempted to get a solid response to why they posted these in the private portion of their Regional Assembly without fully discussing it with all parties first. We have still yet to receive an answer to that question in that chat.

We were very concerned by this lack of response and thought the next resort would be a public statement to get that answer, and it seems that we have gotten it. So, in no way did we not try and publicly communicate before resorting to this public statement. If we would've received private answers it is highly likely this statement wouldn't be up.

Above all of this I would like to express by thanks to Delegate Eluvatar for answering our concerns regarding this in a prompt manner. I hope we can draw a line under this matter now without anger or recrimination on either side and all parties can move forward from this with our alliances stronger than ever.
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Just to clarify, you deduced the date as the 28th but chose to present it as fact instead of including some form of disclaimer like 'on or about the 28th' which would typically accompany such a guesstimate?

Seems legit.
 
[apologies for the double post]

I would also like to apologize for my misinterpretation on the events and information given to me personally. I acted without consulting and investigating further which is something I plan not to do again.
 
I think it's pretty clear that the Government of Europeia did not relay to Eluvatar the severity of their annoyance at his actions, or even attempt to properly express grievance in a private conversation between allies.

Asking questions generally to the Delegate, without making clear the degree of displeasure, is not enough, I think it's clear that Europeia did not make the Delegate aware that they were even considering a condemnation in such a public manner. Nor do I think that any reasonable person could deduce from everything that has occurred since, that Europeia made a serious attempt to address the matter with the Delegate or other signatories, and attempt to reach resolution.

Instead, they chose to take an approach that could at best be described as attention seeking, or at worse, as an attempt at undermining our elected Government. I hope that next time Europeia will handle this matter properly and that we won't see this happen again.
 
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