NPMF Realism Thread

plembobria

plembobria

TNPer
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Here is where people can discuss the proposed North Pacific Monetary Fund. Specifically regarding making it realistic with regards to economic statistics.
 
Syrixia:
http://forum.thenorthpacific.org/single/?p=8205899&t=7365825

Could you review this application, as well as your own? That way we can get the NPMF going.
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I'm not reviewing applications till the 27th.
Lord Lore:
If you want realism. Get rid of Gameplay Stats and exchange it with GDP (Nominal) or GDP (PPP) in local currency or NSD
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Yes, but how is this GDP to be calculated? The in-game GDP is pretty-much meaningless, and I'm not sure every nation can or should be trusted with coming up with its own GDP. NSEconomy calculates a GDP, I suppose that would be the best option. Which is still unrealistically high. I only use gameplay statistics to judge economic strength, as there really is no precedent to decide what kind of GDP indicates a "good" economy.

And what is NSD?
 
plembobria:
Lord Lore:
If you want realism. Get rid of Gameplay Stats and exchange it with GDP (Nominal) or GDP (PPP) in local currency or NSD
Click to expand...
Yes, but how is this GDP to be calculated? The in-game GDP is pretty-much meaningless, and I'm not sure every nation can or should be trusted with coming up with its own GDP. NSEconomy calculates a GDP, I suppose that would be the best option. Which is still unrealistically high. I only use gameplay statistics to judge economic strength, as there really is no precedent to decide what kind of GDP indicates a "good" economy.

And what is NSD?
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1.) I use a commonsense method to come up with GDP myself.

B.) No one used calculators anymore.

III.) GP stats are also unhelpful due to people like me who might answer 3 issues a month because he finds them boring.

Fourth.) NSD is the Nation States Dollar, generally pegged to the United States Dollar's value in RL and generally recognized as the grand currency of Nation States that is used to compare each nation's currency against each other.
 
I can't see that you'll find a way past any unrealisim about GDP as the options are to (1) trust everyone to come up with realistic GDP figures, (2) use the NationStates figures, or (3) use NSEconomy GDP figures (also unrealistic). And part of this stems, of course, from the insanely high population growth figures.

My own suggestion is to use the NSEconomy figures and live with it. It is a game and not to be taken too seriously. It's good enough for your purposes.

That said, my question concerns this statement in the charter:

"The currencies of the nations on the Board of Governors shall be averaged to produce the Standard NPMF Exchange Mechanism. (SNEM)"

Will this be a weighted average? That is, will the "average" so obtained tend to skew towards the value of the Board of Governor member(s) with the largest GDP(s)?

For simplicity let's consider two (2) currencies and GDPs:
Let 1 Alunyan kibble=$1.88 $NS and the GDP is $206,467B $NS,
And 1 Plembobrian Plemp=$1.34 $NS and the GDP is 16,500.8B $NS.

A simple average would have (1.88+1.34)/2-->1 SNEM is equal to $1.61 $NS.

A weighted average would have:

(206467/(206467+16500.8))*1.88 + (16500.8/(206467+16500.8))*1.34

which would mean $1.84004 $NS equals 1 SNEM.

So which should it be?

>^,,^<
Alunya
 
I suggest using PPP as it is reflective of actual value, GDP doesn't take inflation into account. GNP might also be good as it takes into account the net assets of a nation's citizens rather than the geographic wealth within a nation. Now the numbers shouldbe based off of population I think. Countries with more people can make more material. The formula in my mankiw's principles of econ book is GDP=consumption+investment+government purchases+net exports. Productivity is measure by physical capital per worker+human capital per worker(education, training, experience, indoctrination) natural resources per worker and technological knowledge. A change in these will shift the GDP limit. Logic of political survival has taxation formulas in its appendix from what I recall. All of these couldbe helpful.
 
Nasania:
I suggest using PPP as it is reflective of actual value, GDP doesn't take inflation into account.
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PPP is a type of GDP calculation. It along with Nominal are the two main economic size calculation methods. And Nominal can be just as important as PPP. PPP is more valuable for less connected and more isolated nations (like under developed or nations that still heavily developing, like Brazil, China, and Inida) while Nominal is a more valuable calculation for more inter connected nations (developed nations like Russia, the US, Japan, South Korea)

Also GNP is not as valuable compaired to PPP or Nominal GDP due to the fact it focuses on individuals and not on the nation. Because GNP focuses on not the national economic size but instead on the economic size of nationalities.
 
Lord Lore:
Nasania:
I suggest using PPP as it is reflective of actual value, GDP doesn't take inflation into account.
Click to expand...
PPP is a type of GDP calculation. It along with Nominal are the two main economic size calculation methods. And Nominal can be just as important as PPP. PPP is more valuable for less connected and more isolated nations (like under developed or nations that still heavily developing, like Brazil, China, and Inida) while Nominal is a more valuable calculation for more inter connected nations (developed nations like Russia, the US, Japan, South Korea)

Also GNP is not as valuable compaired to PPP or Nominal GDP due to the fact it focuses on individuals and not on the nation. Because GNP focuses on not the national economic size but instead on the economic size of nationalities.
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:duh: Thanks for pointing that out. Yes nominal is what I was thinking about when I said GDP. :blush: Anyhow agreed, both can be useful, I was thinking for comparisons over time, PPP should be used. (Salary changes, inflation of currency for example.)

With GNP I was thinking of terms of international organizations(Like banks, corporations, ngos, terrorists etc.) National borders don't quite affect them the same way. This is why they are such a hassle(from a nation-state's pointof view) in RL.

Here is reference book you may like.
This book discusses unsymmetric warfare(especially financial warfare) in detail.
 
Nasania:
With GNP I was thinking of terms of international organizations(Like banks, corporations, ngos, terrorists etc.) National borders don't quite affect them the same way. This is why they are such a hassle(from a nation-state's point of view) in RL.
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But in the end GNP is subject to the whims of GDP. Because it is directly calculated with GDP as its base. The only difference is that GNP only differs by tracking which segments of a population generate commerce (namely companies held by foreign nationals, expats and the line) and also by tracking how much commerce that nationality is doing in other countries..
 
Lord Lore:
Nasania:
With GNP I was thinking of terms of international organizations(Like banks, corporations, ngos, terrorists etc.) National borders don't quite affect them the same way. This is why they are such a hassle(from a nation-state's point of view) in RL.
Click to expand...
But in the end GNP is subject to the whims of GDP. Because it is directly calculated with GDP as its base. The only difference is that GNP only differs by tracking which segments of a population generate commerce (namely companies held by foreign nationals, expats and the line) and also by tracking how much commerce that nationality is doing in other countries..
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Yes I know that. What I am suggesting here is that we should consider alternatives aside from just GDP(some might ignore GNP.) We should calculate and use both in economic figures. GDP would be good for national information while corporate entities during RP would be better represented with GNP, I think. See, my country has rebel and corporate groups(some very nationalistic) so rping them with GDP isn't as useful because they can be international with no respect to borders at all. GNP on the other hand might be quite useful in this particular circumstance as it is trying to calculate a particular faction's resources. If GDP calculation is more suitable for your circumstance then you are at full liberty to use it.

Now GDP calculations have met with criticism(basically it measures financial activity within a certain area in a certain period of time) whether that activity is beneficial to that country is debatable. It doesn't show rich/poor gaps well(which is important when figuring out political stability.)

What I wish to see here is other measures of economic development considered in the discussion(there are likely other methods besides GDP and its derivative methods). When I RP with various statistical information in the future(I have shyed away from statistics because I would like the information to be right before I mess with it), I would like to have standards that I can use in accurately assessing a Faction's resources. Most of the guides I have found online though don't adequately discuss numerical information(only one had mathematical formulas, but it was based on NS stats). Now, the Logic of Political Survival appendix, which analyzes RL government decisions, might be quite useful in determining how much to tax the citizenry(which determines part of a government's available tools to achieve its goals). GDP oversimplifies the economic picture. The GNP is slightly better as it takes into account offshore resources(like a dictator's swiss bank account for example.) But it still oversimplifies it. Now I want to write a budget for my country(and the factions within), however I want it to be sensible numerical data. The budget will serve as a constraint on what my country can do in their policy decisions.
 
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