1. Article 2 of the Constitution of The North Pacific is hereby amended to read as follows,
Article 2. Citizenship and The Regional Assembly
1. Requirements for citizenship will be determined by law.
2. The Regional Assembly will consist of citizens.
3. The Regional Assembly may enact, amend or repeal laws by a majority vote.
4. The Regional Assembly may remove a government official from office by a two-thirds majority vote.
5. The number of votes required to achieve quorum for any vote of the Regional Assembly except elections will be equal to one third the number of legislatively active citizens.
6. The Regional Assembly will elect a Speaker every four months by a plurality vote.
7. The Speaker will administer the rules of the Regional Assembly. Where no rules exist, the Speaker may use their discretion.
8. Abstentions cast in the Regional Assembly will not be used to determine the result of any vote, but may be used for quorum and all other purposes.
9. The Speaker may appoint deputies to assist them in the execution of any of their powers and duties. Appointment of deputies may be regulated by law and the rules of the Regional Assembly.
3. Article 7, Clause 10 of the Constitution of The North Pacific is hereby amended to read as follows,
10. Candidates in any election must maintain citizenship for the fifteen days immediately preceding the opening of candidacy declarations and throughout the election.
4. Chapter 3, Section 3.1, Clause 3 of the Codified Law of The North Pacific is hereby amended to read as follows,
In the event that a Chief Justice has not been elected by seven days after the conclusion of a Judicial election, including the conclusion of any required run-off votes, the Chief Justice shall be the Justice who received the highest number of votes in said election. In the event of a tie for highest number of votes, the Chief Justice shall be the one among those tied with the longest period of citizenship.
5. Chapter 4, Section 4.2, Clause 4 of the Codified Law of The North Pacific is hereby amended to read as follows,
"Candidates" are those citizens who, during the period of the Election Cycle designated for candidacy declarations, declare themselves or accept a nomination by another citizen as a candidate for an office to be chosen at that Election Cycle.
7. Chapter 4, Section 4.4, Clause 16 of the Codified Law of The North Pacific is hereby amended to read as follows,
Election Commissioners will be appointed by the Delegate to oversee the candidacy declaration and election processes at least one week before the beginning of the month in which the election is to be held. If an appointment of Election Commissioners has not been made by that time, the Vice Delegate shall promptly make the appointment. Citizens serving as government officials are not excluded from appointments under this clause.
7. Chapter 6, Section 6.1 of the Codified Law of The North Pacific is hereby amended to read as follows,
Section 6.1: Citizenship
Any person with an account on the regional forum and a nation in The North Pacific may apply for citizenship, using their regional forum account, by providing the name of their nation in The North Pacific, and swearing an oath as follows:
I, the leader of The North Pacific nation of [INSERT YOUR TNP NATION], pledge loyalty to The North Pacific, obedience to her laws, and responsible action as a member of her society. I pledge to only register one nation to vote in The North Pacific. I pledge that no nation under my control will wage war against the North Pacific. I understand that if I break this oath I may permanently lose my voting privileges. In this manner, I petition the Speaker for citizenship in The North Pacific.
A copy of the laws applicants are pledging to obey must be available to them at all times.
An application for citizenship ceases to be valid if at any time the applicant's declared nation in The North Pacific is not located in The North Pacific.
Forum administration will have 14 days to evaluate citizenship applicants and verify that they are not using a proxy or evading a judicially-imposed penalty. The Vice Delegate will have 3 days to perform a security assessment of the applicant. All security assessments will be performed in consultation with the Security Council, and in accordance with all laws of The North Pacific.
The Speaker will reject applicants who fail an evaluation by either forum administration or the Vice Delegate.
If an applicant is rejected for failing an evaluation by the Vice Delegate, the Regional Assembly will immediately hold a majority vote on whether to uphold the rejection.
The Regional Assembly may overturn a previous decision to uphold the rejection of an applicant by majority vote.
The Speaker will accept all other applicants with valid applications.
The Speaker will process applications within 14 days. If an applicant has not been approved or rejected within that time, they will be automatically granted citizenship.
Citizens may not vote in any vote which began before they were last admitted.
The Speaker will maintain a publicly viewable roster of citizens.
The Speaker will promptly remove any citizens whose removal is ordered by the Court, or whose nation in The North Pacific leaves or ceases to exist.
The Speaker's office will promptly remove any citizens who fail to post in The North Pacific forum for over 20 consecutive days.
Citizens that have submitted a notice of absence, in accordance with any regulations set by the Speaker, shall be exempt from the provisions of the above clause for the stated duration of their absence.
Legislatively active citizens will be those citizens who have voted at least once in the last 20 consecutive days or have not missed more than three consecutive Regional Assembly votes to enact, amend or repeal laws, as determined by the time they closed.
I highlight below in BBcode the changes effected by this bill. Citizenship Bill
1. Article 2 of the Constitution of The North Pacific is hereby amended to read as follows,
Article 2. Citizenship and The Regional Assembly
1. Requirements for membership in the Regional Assemblycitizenship will be determined by law. 2. The Regional Assembly will consist of all citizens.
3. The Regional Assembly may enact, amend or repeal laws by a majority vote.
4. The Regional Assembly may remove a government official from office by a two-thirds majority vote.
5. The number of votes required to achieve quorum for any vote of the Regional Assembly except elections will be a third of its membershipequal to one third the number of legislatively active citizens.
6. The Regional Assembly will elect a Speaker every four months by a plurality vote.
7. The Speaker will administer the rules of the Regional Assembly. Where no rules exist, the Speaker may use their discretion.
8. Abstentions cast in the Regional Assembly will not be used to determine the result of any vote, but may be used for quorum and all other purposes.
9. The Speaker may appoint deputies to assist them in the execution of any of their powers and duties. Appointment of deputies may be regulated by law and the rules of the Regional Assembly.
2. Article 7, Clause 6 of the Constitution of The North Pacific is hereby amended to read as follows,
6. All government officials, with the exception of members of the Security Council, must maintain membership in the Regional Assemblycitizenship while in office.
3. Article 7, Clause 10 of the Constitution of The North Pacific is hereby amended to read as follows,
10. Candidates in any election must maintain membership in the Regional Assemblycitizenship for the fifteen days beforeimmediately preceding the opening of candidacy declarations and throughout the election.
4. Chapter 3, Section 3.1, Clause 3 of the Codified Law of The North Pacific is hereby amended to read as follows,
In the event that a Chief Justice has not been elected by seven days after the conclusion of a Judicial election, including the conclusion of any required run-off votes, the Chief Justice shall be the Justice who received the highest number of votes in said election. In the event of a tie for highest number of votes, the Chief Justice shall be the one among those tied with the longest period of membership in the Regional Assemblycitizenship.
5. Chapter 4, Section 4.2, Clause 4 of the Codified Law of The North Pacific is hereby amended to read as follows,
"Candidates" are those Regional Assembly memberscitizens who, during the period of the Election Cycle designated for candidacy declarations, declare themselves or accept a nomination by another Regional Assembly membercitizen as a candidate for an office to be chosen at that Election Cycle.
7. Chapter 4, Section 4.4, Clause 16 of the Codified Law of The North Pacific is hereby amended to read as follows,
Election Commissioners will be appointed by the Delegate to oversee the candidacy declaration and election processes at least one week before the beginning of the month in which the election is to be held. If an appointment of Election Commissioners has not been made by that time, the Vice Delegate shall promptly make the appointment. Regional Assembly membersCitizens serving as government officials are not excluded from appointments under this clause.
Any person with an account on the regional forum and a nation in The North Pacific may apply for Regional Assembly membershipcitizenship, using their regional forum account, by providing the name of their nation in The North Pacific, and swearing an oath as follows:
I, the leader of The North Pacific nation of [INSERT YOUR TNP NATION], pledge loyalty to The North Pacific, obedience to her laws, and responsible action as a member of her society. I pledge to only register one nation to vote in The North Pacific. I pledge that no nation under my control will wage war against the North Pacific. I understand that if I break this oath I may permanently lose my voting privileges. In this manner, I petition the Speaker for citizenship in The North Pacific.
A copy of the laws applicants are pledging to obey must be available to them at all times.
An application for Regional Assembly membershipcitizenship ceases to be valid if at any time the applicant's declared nation in The North Pacific nation is not located in The North Pacific.
Forum administration will have 14 days to evaluate Regional Assemblycitizenship applicants and verify that they are not using a proxy or evading a judicially-imposed penalty. The Vice Delegate will have 3 days to perform a security assessment of the applicant. All security assessments will be performed in consultation with the Security Council, and in accordance with all laws of The North Pacific.
The Speaker will reject applicants who fail an evaluation by either forum administration or the Vice Delegate.
If an applicant is rejected for failing an evaluation by the Vice Delegate, the Regional Assembly will immediately hold a majority vote on whether to uphold the rejection.
The Regional Assembly may overturn a previous decision to uphold the rejection of an applicant by majority vote.
The Speaker will accept all other applicants with valid applications.
The Speaker will process applications within 14 days. If an applicant has not been accepted or rejected within that time, they will be automatically accepted to the Regional Assemblygranted citizenship.
Regional Assembly membersCitizens may not vote in any vote which began before they were last admitted.
The Speaker will maintain a publicly viewable roster of Regional Assembly memberscitizens.
The Speaker will promptly remove any Regional Assembly memberscitizens whose removal is ordered by the Court, or whose nation in The North Pacific leaves or ceases to exist.
The Speaker's office will promptly remove any Regional Assembly memberscitizens who fail to fail to log in to the North Pacific forum for over 30 consecutive days; or who have not voted for 20 consecutive days and have missed four consecutive Regional Assembly votes to enact, amend or repeal laws, as determined by the time they closed.post in The North Pacific forum for over 20 consecutive days.
Regional Assembly membersCitizens that have submitted a notice of absence, in accordance with any regulations set by the Speaker, shall be exempt from the provisions of the above clause for the stated duration of their absence.
Legislatively active citizens will be those citizens who have voted at least once in the last 20 consecutive days or have not missed more than three consecutive Regional Assembly votes to enact, amend or repeal laws, as determined by the time they closed.
8. No part of this bill shall take effect unless all parts take effect.
This bill is in part inspired by a similar bill proposed by Alunya in June 2014. I've also received feedback from Asta, COE, and Democratic Donkeys.
During this past term, I have been in contact with numerous new nations joining the forum, as well as nations that either became inactive on the forum or left the region altogether. I ask them for their experience in the region and the forum, and the reasons why they are leaving. There have been several nations that expressed a strong interest in certain areas of the forum (roleplay, NPA, Executive Staff, WA affairs, OOC), but a disinterest in the RA and legislating in general. Yet, RA membership and participation is a requirement for these nations to become enfranchised, first-rate members of our community. This issue has been again and again cited as the reason why these nations left the forum or the region. The strong emphasis our government structure places on the RA and legislative activity has been one of the main stumbling blocks the government has been encountering this term in our efforts to recruit nations to the forum.
Not all of these nations chose to leave. Several of them have chosen to stay in the forum, and during this term we had a large number of members that were contributing exclusively in areas of the forum outside of the RA. All these members are making meaningful and valuable contributions to the region. Yet, just because they are not interested in legislating, they do not enjoy the right to vote and stand for office, while others who do nothing else but contribute a vote on some bill once a month do. This to me seems utterly unfair and undemocratic, and unacceptable really given the pride we take in our democratic values.
Many of these considerations apply to more established members of our community as well. Punk d is a good example: He recently chose to refrain from activity in the RA and stay as a "citizen". This means that he is no longer able to vote or stand in elections. Similar considerations applied in the past to other long-term members (I recall at least Eras). Once again, the fact that such established members of our region get disenfranchised simply because they are no longer interested in contributing legislatively, while continuing to contribute in other ways, is absurd and unacceptable.
This biil intends to address these considerations. It does so by replacing Regional Assembly membership with a legally defined citizenship that is of broader scope. A member is granted citizenship in a manner identical to how they would be granted RA membership currently (nation in the region, oath, admin and VD check). Once a citizen, all they need to maintain their citizenship is to keep a nation in TNP and to have some posting activity on the forum (namely, at least one post per 20 days). Their posts can be anywhere in the forum and do not have to be in the RA.
All citizens can vote and stand for the various elected offices. They can be appointed to the various appointed offices. And, if they choose, they can also freely participate in the legislative activity of the Regional Assembly.
Given that, under this bill, it would be possible to have multiple valid citizens who are not active legislatively in the RA, the bill also amends how quorum is achieved. The number of votes required for quorum is calculated as a percentage of the number of legislatively active citizens, instead of all citizens. Legislatively active citizens are those that maintain voting activity analogous to that required currently for maintenance of RA membership.
Some of the clauses amended overlap with those amended by the Electoral Corrections Bill, which is about to go to vote. Assuming it passes, I will edit this draft accordingly to reflect the changes by that bill.
Finally, should this bill pass, I intend to propose the following changes to the RA rules, to bring them in compliance with the new citizenship concept.
Section 1. Proposals
1. Any citizen may bring a proposal for discussion before the Regional Assembly.
2. The Speaker may schedule a vote on any proposal being discussed by the Regional Assembly as permitted by law.
3. If, before a vote on a proposal begins, at least three citizens object to the decision of the Speaker to schedule it, the Speaker must cancel the scheduled vote.
4. If a number of citizens equal to or exceeding one-tenth of the number of legislatively active citizens, including the citizen that introduced the proposal to the Regional Assembly, motion that a vote should be held on a proposal before the Regional Assembly, then the Speaker must schedule a vote on that proposal to begin as soon as permitted by law.
Section 2. Voting
1. No more than two votes to enact, amend or repeal laws may take place simultaneously at any time.
2. Unless otherwise required by law, votes of the Regional Assembly will last for a minimum of three and a maximum of seven days.
3. The Speaker will, at the beginning of a vote of the Regional Assembly, decide its duration as permitted by law.
4. If a number of citizens equal to or exceeding one-tenth of the number of legislatively active citizens object to the duration of a vote of the Regional Assembly decided by the Speaker before the conclusion of the vote, then that vote will last for the maximum duration permitted by law.
5. If at the conclusion of a vote quorum has not been achieved, then the Speaker may extend the duration of the vote to the maximum permitted by law.
Section 3. Deputy Speaker and Vacancies
1. The Speaker may, at their discretion, appoint a citizen as Deputy Speaker. The Speaker may, at their discretion, remove an existing Deputy Speaker.
2. Unless otherwise specified by law, the Speaker may delegate any of their powers and duties to the Deputy Speaker. Delegation under this section does not relieve the Speaker of any of their powers and duties. Any provisions of law related to the powers and duties of the Speaker, when exercised by the Deputy Speaker under the provisions of this clause, shall apply to the Deputy Speaker.
3. When the position of Speaker is vacant, the Deputy Speaker will assume the powers and duties of the office of the Speaker for the duration of the vacancy. When the position of Deputy Speaker is simultaneously vacant, the legislatively active citizen who is available, has the longest period of citizenship, does not decline the position, and is not otherwise prohibited by law will assume the powers and duties of the office of the Speaker for the duration of the simultaneous vacancy.
4. A citizen’s period of citizenship is defined as the amount of elapsed time since that citizen's most recent approved citizenship application without an interruption.
I consider this a very important bill that will have a strong impact on how we gain new members in our community. I hope the RA will consider it thoroughly and eventually enact it.
What about citizens becoming "government officals" - recently I could not appoint Punk D as an AAG - though he has experience both as a Justice and Former AG -- simply because he is not an RA member. If a citizen possess knowledge I feel they should be aloud to be appointed a deputy or to a cabinet position without having to maintain RA membership if they chose not to. (With the exeception of Deputy Speaker of course --- Obviously RA membership should be a prerequiste.)
Also, letting citizens stand for elections and vote, reading though this. I have no objection to. Except again Speakership of the RA. I feel if one is not in the RA then they shouldnt get to have a say in who is speaker of it. So let the RA retain sole right to elect it's leadership (Speaker)
The following is a general commentary and not a critque of this bill:
Citizens being able to stand for election and vote I feel is a good thing for Democratic Government.
But I feel a person would be at a disadvantage to get elected and serve an office if they have no basic knowledge of our laws or procedures. Someone that sticks to the Role Play Area or World Assembly forums is all well and good if that is their perrogative -- but if they do not have experience proposing, arguing, and voting on legislation in the assembly then I feel they may be disadvantaged politically. While certianly they should try and run if they feel so inclined.
In my mind it would be like IRL if a experienced Senator was running for an election -- and then you had a smart person who had new fresh ideas and could articulate them out in the street deciding to run --- I think the electorate would move toward the more experienced and established politically candidate --- unless of course they were mad at the establishment/status-quo and then they may elect the candidate coming from outside of politics.
But it is early. And I am rushed trying to get ready to go to work. I will have to read through this proposal more carefully. I like the idea of allowing citizens to vote in elections without RA requirements -- running for office..sounds good...I would be for it..give new players not in the RA a chance to stand....but also..mI feel the RA is a fundamental building block to kickstarting a political career in TNP...if one wants to run for office..they should get experience working on a legal mindset....and propose and argue a few proposals and hone the debate and critical thinking skills...make uneasy shaky alliances with other RA members..do the political simulation right....then stand for office.
What about citizens becoming "government officals" - recently I could not appoint Punk D as an AAG - though he has experience both as a Justice and Former AG -- simply because he is not an RA member. If a citizen possess knowledge I feel they should be aloud to be appointed a deputy or to a cabinet position without having to maintain RA membership if they chose not to. (With the exeception of Deputy Speaker of course --- Obviously RA membership should be a prerequiste.)
Candidates in any election must maintain membership in the Regional Assembly citizenship for the fifteen days before immediately preceding the opening of candidacy declarations and throughout the election.
Also, letting citizens stand for elections and vote, reading though this. I have no objection to. Except again Speakership of the RA. I feel if one is not in the RA then they shouldnt get to have a say in who is speaker of it. So let the RA retain sole right to elect it's leadership (Speaker)
Also, what about the votes of the RA/Vice Delegate to have people blocked from the RA previously -- either untrustworthy, no confidence, or various reasons why one would be blocked.
This change would allow those citizens who have been blocked from the RA to propose legislation, vote, stand and hold office. In effect would negate those previous blocks.
How does one reconcile the desire for citizen inclusion and the Will of the current RA to have kept certain people out who the RA feels is a determent to the assembly?
From the Ministry of Home Affairs' point view, I would have to agree that this bill makes it very much easier for our newer members to join our government and participate. We have had several players leave due to Legislation, and the reason for that is that they thought that since they were part of the RA, it was a duty and responsibility of theirs to participate in its debates and discussions, which they did not want to do. I would also have to agree that there is no reason for a person to be in the RA in order to vote in laws and amendments. A citizen is already part of the region, and they should have the opportunity to vote on its amendments and laws. And same applies for positions. If the Forum member is a citizen, then they are basically citizens of TNP, and that means that they should have the right to serve in positions as they are citizens of our region.
However, as stated in Paul's post, I do believe that only RA members should be able to elect the Speaker, because after all, this is the member that basically presides over the RA, and I think that only the members that are in that organization should be able to participate in running and voting for the position of their Speaker.
Another thing that I would like to make note of is that new citizens might be at a disadvantage when running for office due to lack of experience, but the same does apply to new RA members, and the Ministry of Home Affairs usually gives members all of the info necessary to start off and gain experience. In addition to that, if citizens deem it necessary to join the RA to gain experience, then they can do that easily by applying to it and joining it when they feel comfortable doing that.
And if not, then they can also gain experience by joining The Executive Staff or asking for help from any individual that is willing to help them and we have plenty of those here.
So in conclusion, this bill would have my full support due to the fact that it makes many processes easier for our newer members, and in the long run, it might even decrease the number of people that quit the Forum and increase the participation in our government.
I remain concerned about the implementation of this clause, as automating a check like this is the only way to ensure it is performed with any consistency. I would very much like to see a working version of the script before this goes to vote.
I haven't quite made up my mind about whether I like the content of this bill or not, but in general I am favorable. I may suggest a few tweaks as debate continues.
One thing I don't like is that the term "legislatively active" appears in the constitution, and is defined in the legal code, without anything in the constitution about how it is to be defined.
Also, I think we need to add something to the bill that defines the current body of citizens as all members of the RA at the time of passage.
EDIT: I also think that while we're legislating on citizenship, we ought to add a clause somewhere requiring members of the military to be citizens.
Nope. Not particularly keen. It is simple enough to become and remain part of the Regional Assembly, even if you are not interested in legislating: posting a simple "abstain" every few votes will do it.
Is that too much effort?
I like the fact that RA membership is a requirement for standing and voting in elecitons, and will be voting to see that it is maintained.
Nope. Not particularly keen. It is simple enough to become and remain part of the Regional Assembly, even if you are not interested in legislating: posting a simple "abstain" every few votes will do it.
Is that too much effort?
I like the fact that RA membership is a requirement for standing and voting in elecitons, and will be voting to see that it is maintained.
I do find the idea of all citizens having the ability to vote appealing....but also, I am tending to find myself in agreement with Flem here.
Also, as I said earlier what about those the RA have blocked? If this were to pass they would again regain voting rights and rights to stand for office...doesnt that fly in the face of the will of the RA who felt these people were a hinderance? Would there then need to be a 2nd class of citizen? Citizens with voting and office holding rights and then another group blocked from holding such rights?
As flem said...if you arent interrested in legislation..you can always abstain every few votes.
During this past term, I have been in contact with numerous new nations joining the forum, as well as nations that either became inactive on the forum or left the region altogether. I ask them for their experience in the region and the forum, and the reasons why they are leaving. There have been several nations that expressed a strong interest in certain areas of the forum (roleplay, NPA, Executive Staff, WA affairs, OOC), but a disinterest in the RA and legislating in general. Yet, RA membership and participation is a requirement for these nations to become enfranchised, first-rate members of our community. This issue has been again and again cited as the reason why these nations left the forum or the region. The strong emphasis our government structure places on the RA and legislative activity has been one of the main stumbling blocks the government has been encountering this term in our efforts to recruit nations to the forum.
This proposal, if passed, confers RA membership on all citizens. I don't like the idea of giving RA status to people who have no interest in legislating (that is it's purview after all). I don't think RA membership is an onerous requirement for involvement in TNP government. As has been the practice here, some people just abstain in legislative votes to keep their membership active anyway. They'll continue to do so even if this passes.
Having said that, I am in favor of allowing citizens to vote in elections. But these proposed changes are too broad in scope. Increased forum activity/membership is not a reason to rewrite the Constitution imo. There are also security issues that have been alluded to by other posters.
As a side note, I'm curious what effect this bill's passage would have on my RA membership. I applied directly to the RA, without first applying for citizenship.
Nope. Not particularly keen. It is simple enough to become and remain part of the Regional Assembly, even if you are not interested in legislating: posting a simple "abstain" every few votes will do it.
Is that too much effort?
I like the fact that RA membership is a requirement for standing and voting in elecitons, and will be voting to see that it is maintained.
While I think the proposed bill is brilliantly written and would tend to increase the scope of the electorate in theory, but in practice (from historical experience on my part), it would probably not and possibly over-complicate a complex legal/constitutional system. I will have to agree with my esteemed colleague Flemingovia on this one.
Loosening the RA membership requirements by virtually eliminating activity requirements would possibly invite influences external to the region to participate in TNP to the benefit of a 'citizens' alternate region(s) of citizenship.
To expound on Flemingovia's concerns over asking RA members to express more effort than just being there (with apologies to Woody Allen), while citizenship is just a matter of 'being there', membership in the RA should involve a matter of conscientious effort on the part of those who truly seek to be really involved as members of the RA.
I also like the fact that RA membership is a requirement for standing and voting in elections and will also be voting to see that this is maintained.
I'm really unsure on this and agree to an extent with what flemingovia and Falap are saying.
Alternatively: the RA could be separate from the right to vote in elections. So instead of conferring RA. Membership to all, we keep it as is, while giving citizens the vote and adding in additional activity requirements for citizenship.. Just spit balling here.
I am agreeing with most everyone else on this. While i believe that the general concept behind the bill is good and I favor most of the changes as positive, I do think that elections for the Speaker should DEFINATELY be left solely to RA members and that only people who WANT to legislate should be RA members.
And considering that I believe the RA to be a function of a failed offsite oligarchy in regards to the intentions of the wider NS citizenry, that should say all that needs to be said regarding whether or not those in favor of the existing RA should support it.
I am a little busy this afternoon preparing lectures for a class I am starting to teach tomorrow, so my apologies but I do not think I'll be able to provide responses today. I will do so tomorrow after my class.
I'm really unsure on this and agree to an extent with what flemingovia and Falap are saying.
Alternatively: the RA could be separate from the right to vote in elections. So instead of conferring RA. Membership to all, we keep it as is, while giving citizens the vote and adding in additional activity requirements for citizenship.. Just spit balling here.
Now there's an idea! General citizenry voting in elections. If someone wants to become an RA member to partake in the legislative process, they are always free to do so.
Gracius Maximus:
I fully support.
And considering that I believe the RA to be a function of a failed offsite oligarchy in regards to the intentions of the wider NS citizenry, that should say all that needs to be said regarding whether or not those in favor of the existing RA should support it.
That point of view also has a great deal of merit, although I personally wouldn't go so far as to say that the RA is entirely a function of an offsite oligarchy (a number of us in the RA prove that there are still some independent thinkers who are definitely not Oligarchists or Elitists by any stretch of the imagination).
The problem I have with Oligarchical/Elitist systems (which all systems tend to slide towards, sooner or later) is that such systems tend to stifle originality and talent by discouraging originality and talent as a means to advancement. It also tends to replace merit with crony-ism and favouritism and ultimately ends in disorder and chaos because talent and originality get suppressed in the process (and because talent tends to go elsewhere where it is appreciated).
By the same token, I am not a big fan of 'pure' Democracy by any means as it tends to be nothing more than mob rule in which only immediate interests are considered. What I personally would rather see is a Representative Democracy type system in which citizens on the forum elect representatives to the RA.
The reason I say this is that it increases the value of being in the RA by leaps and bounds over the current system which allows anyone and everyone, including transients who vanish into the blue. I also think that citizenship in the form of voting rights should be something that is earned and should require an effort on the part of would-be citizens.
At the risk of using an RL example, the Roman Empire went straight to Hell in a hand-basket the instant citizenship was granted to any and all comers without any consideration of merit or loyalties. And that was compounded and accelerated by their Oligarchical system in which influence and merit were purchased or conferred by favouritism or personal connections rather than by it actually having been earned by personal effort and ability.
Oh, don't get me wrong, I have nothing against an elitist or oligarchical system of governance. My issue with the current state of affairs within the north Pacific is that the offsite government regulates the powers of the Delegate.
Oh, don't get me wrong, I have nothing against an elitist or oligarchical system of governance. My issue with the current state of affairs within the north Pacific is that the offsite government regulates the powers of the Delegate.
Off site as in the government of TNP is not conducted purely through the RMB and everything proceeds like the alternate universe in which Spock has a goatee beard (and looks amazingly like Thel in RL)?
Actually, It would be an intriguing proposition. Imagine a system of advancement by assassination in which people like you and me could operate with all the stops pulled out! It would be a blood-bath of epic proportions... OK, we already have that... a blood bath in which the object is to find ways around the rules... woops, we already have that... Never mind.
Oh, don't get me wrong, I have nothing against an elitist or oligarchical system of governance. My issue with the current state of affairs within the north Pacific is that the offsite government regulates the powers of the Delegate.
Off site as in the government of TNP is not conducted purely through the RMB and everything proceeds like the alternate universe in which Spock has a goatee beard (and looks amazingly like Thel in RL)?
Actually, It would be an intriguing proposition. Imagine a system of advancement by assassination in which people like you and me could operate with all the stops pulled out! It would be a blood-bath of epic proportions... OK, we already have that... a blood bath in which the object is to find ways around the rules... woops, we already have that... Never mind.
No. I support the idea of an offsite government. And, indeed, since the sitting Delegate approves of the current governmental form in TNP I agree with that as well. What I oppose is the idea that the offsite community somehow controls the actions of the Delegate. I believe the ultimate arbiter of authority in the feeders should be the Delegate.
And yet, the community of the feeder has the power to remove the delegate and replace them if the delegate does not respect community-adopted limits on their power. I am not speaking here of a made up legislative power, but a real concrete ability. The delegate is one in five thousand, and the idea that a nation, simply by virtue of being in the delegate seat, could overpower the rest of the region is absurd. If you want to go Machiavellian realpolitik, the community *is* the one with the real power. The game mechanics, and use of the endorsement mechanic to select the delegate, is inherently democratic, not tyrannical.
And yet, the community of the feeder has the power to remove the delegate and replace them if the delegate does not respect community-adopted limits on their power. I am not speaking here of a made up legislative power, but a real concrete ability. The delegate is one in five thousand, and the idea that a nation, simply by virtue of being in the delegate seat, could overpower the rest of the region is absurd. If you want to go Machiavellian realpolitik, the community *is* the one with the real power. The game mechanics, and use of the endorsement mechanic to select the delegate, is inherently democratic, not tyrannical.
Indeed. But your definition of 'community' is very broad in this instance. It is conceivable that a Delegate nation with sufficient Influence could maintain the support of the in game community regardless of the off-site community's opinion or position on how that nation utilizes power.
The realpolitik of the situation, since you bring it up, is that there are currently 4080 nations within The North Pacific. The Delegate nation has the endorsed support of 476 nations, or 11.67% of the total population. The offsite Regional Assembly consists of around 50 nations (including government officials that are not masked simply as Regional Assembly), or 1.2% of the total population. Of those roughly half will vote in major elections, a quarter to a third in legislative votes, so 0.3% to 0.6% of the total population.
Effectively, the active and participating government of The North Pacific consists of less than 1% of the regional population.
That said, the Delegate nation could very easily (with concession to Influence of course) dispense with the offsite community altogether and still maintain control of the region and power. It could replace the forum and gather new supporters and nations.
Unendorsement campaigns against an active sitting Delegate have never in the history of NS been successful on a large scale. So yes, you are correct, the 'community' is the real power in that they could simply ignore us here altogether and endorse someone else. But, because of the constructs that the oligarchy (and label it whatever you wish, but less than 1% controlling 99% is oligarchical) have developed, the power of the sitting Delegate has been limited.
But there is also an interregional community that, by and large, respects the will of the constitutional government here. It is very unlikely that a delegate who dispensed with the government here would have many allies on a global scale. Meanwhile, the allies of the constitutional government are numerous and strong. Rogue delegates in TNP don't have a very good track record for success.
I would also add that TNP's region for the most part is loyal to the forum government. That is one of the reasons why the unendorsement campaigns are ineffective most of the time & a reason why people know who to contact even when the Delegate is away for an extended period of time.
But there is also an interregional community that, by and large, respects the will of the constitutional government here. It is very unlikely that a delegate who dispensed with the government here would have many allies on a global scale. Meanwhile, the allies of the constitutional government are numerous and strong. Rogue delegates in TNP don't have a very good track record for success.
But there is also an interregional community that, by and large, respects the will of the constitutional government here. It is very unlikely that a delegate who dispensed with the government here would have many allies on a global scale. Meanwhile, the allies of the constitutional government are numerous and strong. Rogue delegates in TNP don't have a very good track record for success.
The issue or Rogue Delegates has been largely eliminated mainly due to the existence of the Security Council. It's a fairly well designed system that would take one hell of a conspiracy of SC members and others to defeat. The SC system exploits the very nature of the current Influence rules/mechanics. Believe me when I say, a Delegate going rogue or a rogue usurping the Delegacy would be a daunting task that would be self-defeating in immediate terms and would not last very long, if it could be pulled off.
The current SC system has largely deterred any such attempts at roguery.
