Censure Bill

St George

St George

RolePlay Moderator
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Pronouns
He/Him, They/Them
Sometimes, we go a little bit too far, intentionally or not, when it can be avoided just by someone taking us aside saying "cut the shit". So, I think we need a way for the Regional Assembly to tell a government official (or any regional official if government official only covers ministers and shit rather than justices etc). First time drafting in the RA for a while, so if it's really badly formatted or something, then... I'll get the wood for the crucifixion if you'll provide the nails.

Article 2 of the Constitution of The North Pacific is amended to read as follows:
Article 2. The Regional Assembly

  • Requirements for membership in the Regional Assembly will be determined by law.
  • The Regional Assembly may enact, amend or repeal laws by a majority vote.
  • The Regional Assembly may remove a government official from office by a two-thirds majority vote.
  • The Regional Assembly may formally censure a government official by a majority vote.
  • The quorum for any vote of the Regional Assembly except elections will be a third of its membership.
  • The Regional Assembly will elect a Speaker every four months by a plurality vote.
  • The Speaker will administer the rules of the Regional Assembly. Where no rules exist, the Speaker may use their discretion.
  • Abstentions cast in the Regional Assembly will not be used to determine the result of any vote, but may be used for quorum and all other purposes.
  • The Speaker may appoint deputies to assist them in the execution of any of their powers and duties. Appointment of deputies may be regulated by law and the rules of the Regional Assembly.
Click to expand...
Updated version:
Article 2 of the Constitution of The North Pacific is amended to read as follows:
Article 2. The Regional Assembly

  • Requirements for membership in the Regional Assembly will be determined by law.
  • The Regional Assembly may enact, amend or repeal laws by a majority vote.
  • The Regional Assembly may remove a government official from office by a two-thirds majority vote.
  • The Regional Assembly may issue a formal censure to a government official or a government official one month removed from office by a majority vote.
    [*]A censure is a formal expression of disapproval of that the actions undertaken by that official
  • The quorum for any vote of the Regional Assembly except elections will be a third of its membership.
  • The Regional Assembly will elect a Speaker every four months by a plurality vote.
  • The Speaker will administer the rules of the Regional Assembly. Where no rules exist, the Speaker may use their discretion.
  • Abstentions cast in the Regional Assembly will not be used to determine the result of any vote, but may be used for quorum and all other purposes.
  • The Speaker may appoint deputies to assist them in the execution of any of their powers and duties. Appointment of deputies may be regulated by law and the rules of the Regional Assembly.
Click to expand...
 
I'm fine formalizing "censure" but I'd want any bill to also include a definition of what censuring entails.
 
A formal condemnation of those actions perhaps? On phone atm will put it in better wording when I get back on my laptop.
 
Censure? Just another meaningless bit of legislative rigmarole designed to be used as a political tool to censor those who might disagree.

You'd be better off holding a witch burning.








Oh.....wait.
 
As a longstanding proponent of freedom of speech/expression within these halls, I will vote nay on any legislation intended to remove a citizens voice from the public venue.
 
Censure as a concept if properly defined means a public admonishment, formally adopted, and nothing more. The theory is that the public nature of the sanction is all the punishment that is appropriate since it allows the body to express its disapproval.

It might be useful as an alternative to the use of recall when the motivation appears to be more based on emotion than anything else.
 
Gracius Maximus:
I will vote nay on any legislation intended to remove a citizens voice from the public venue.
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Agreed. I don't see the point of this. It could be used as a tool to discourage dissension, and/or limit free speech. If the intended effect is to moderate the tone of a thread, that's an admin/mod issue. If a particular poster is going too far, that's on him/her.
 
Nierr, I tried to get one of these going last summer, but it never went anywhere. If you want, you can dig that out of the archives and incorporate anything that appeals to you.
 
Updated. I think the wording still needs work, but I don't want to sit on this and end up forgetting it.

Article 2 of the Constitution of The North Pacific is amended to read as follows:
Article 2. The Regional Assembly

  • Requirements for membership in the Regional Assembly will be determined by law.
  • The Regional Assembly may enact, amend or repeal laws by a majority vote.
  • The Regional Assembly may remove a government official from office by a two-thirds majority vote.
  • The Regional Assembly may issue a formal censure to a government official or a government official one month removed from office by a majority vote.
    [*]A censure is a formal expression of disapproval of that the actions undertaken by that official
  • The quorum for any vote of the Regional Assembly except elections will be a third of its membership.
  • The Regional Assembly will elect a Speaker every four months by a plurality vote.
  • The Speaker will administer the rules of the Regional Assembly. Where no rules exist, the Speaker may use their discretion.
  • Abstentions cast in the Regional Assembly will not be used to determine the result of any vote, but may be used for quorum and all other purposes.
  • The Speaker may appoint deputies to assist them in the execution of any of their powers and duties. Appointment of deputies may be regulated by law and the rules of the Regional Assembly.
Click to expand...
 
Gracius Maximus:
As a longstanding proponent of freedom of speech/expression within these halls, I will vote nay on any legislation intended to remove a citizens voice from the public venue.
Click to expand...
It does worse than that - Censure would assuredly be used as just another tool of the Oligarchy to marginalize, isolate and annihilate anything even resembling legitimate opposition or reasonable competing ideas.

I mean, we already have this here in a de facto sense, all they want to do is to formalize it into yet another tool to silence any opposition to the Oligarchy. ;)
 
So after saying I didn't want to sit on this and forget about it... I kinda forgot about it.

Um, I'm still not entirely happy with the wording and want to address the concerns people had about defining what Censure actually is. I'm just unsure of how to word it.

So... looking for any advice/contributions.
 
Nierr:
So after saying I didn't want to sit on this and forget about it... I kinda forgot about it.

Um, I'm still not entirely happy with the wording and want to address the concerns people had about defining what Censure actually is. I'm just unsure of how to word it.

So... looking for any advice/contributions.
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I figured. That's why I've brought it up. Though do we need to define censure? It's a self evident word isn't it?
 
The Regional Assembly needs a middle ground between doing nothing and Recall. A way of registering its disapproval of an official.

A censure (like a condemn/commend) does nothing except express the feeling of the Regional Assembly. Hopefully it would be a shot across the bows of an errant official.
 
Romanoffia:
Censure stinks of intimidation and will be used as a political tool and nothing else.
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You're one to talk about intimidation. :eyeroll:
 
flemingovia:
The Regional Assembly needs a middle ground between doing nothing and Recall. A way of registering its disapproval of an official.

A censure (like a condemn/commend) does nothing except express the feeling of the Regional Assembly. Hopefully it would be a shot across the bows of an errant official.
Click to expand...
Actually, you make a good and valid point about the correct way a censure should be used.

Actually, we already have the ability to 'censure' in the form of passing a simple non-binding resolution. Censure, on the other hand is tantamount to convicting someone of an offence that is not in the legal code and using the Legislative Branch to do it (which is not the role of the Legislative Branch).

A means of 'impeachment' for criminal acts and a trial by the RA rather than a simple vote would be a better course of action rather. Recalls can be for arbitrary reasons; impeachment at trial/conviction for violations of the law is a much better tool.
 
Romanoffia:
Gracius Maximus:
As a longstanding proponent of freedom of speech/expression within these halls, I will vote nay on any legislation intended to remove a citizens voice from the public venue.
Click to expand...
It does worse than that - Censure would assuredly be used as just another tool of the Oligarchy to marginalize, isolate and annihilate anything even resembling legitimate opposition or reasonable competing ideas.

I mean, we already have this here in a de facto sense, all they want to do is to formalize it into yet another tool to silence any opposition to the Oligarchy. ;)
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I was being a bit sarcastic actually. If the Delegate supported government wishes to impede the personal liberty of its members, so be it.
 
I agree with flem and roman. I think nierr is doing us a favour by reminding us of this. Intimidation is very common and we should def codify this to make discouragement more accessible and easier to understand. At least then undesirables will know they have been censured, because the ra motjon will tell them.
 
I agree with flem and roman. I think nierr is doing us a favour by reminding us of this. Intimidation is very common and we should def codify this to make discouragement more accessible and easier to understand. At least then undesirables will know they have been censured, because the ra motjon will tell them.
 
I have in the past suggested censure as an alternative to other forms of expressing disapproval because there are times that all that is desired, or possible, is such an expression.
Using recall usually fails when it is a censure that is wanted, so setting up a framework in advance is a good idea. However, I am not sure this proposal best achieves an appropriate mechanism. I do not think not having a set procedure for a censure is a good idea because it leaves the process and the details mostly in the Speaker's hands, and that could be subject to political manipulation in an environment where that should be avoided.
I do believe however, that whatever the mechanism, the required majority should be a two-thirds vote, and nothing lesser.
 
Gracius Maximus:
Romanoffia:
Gracius Maximus:
As a longstanding proponent of freedom of speech/expression within these halls, I will vote nay on any legislation intended to remove a citizens voice from the public venue.
Click to expand...
It does worse than that - Censure would assuredly be used as just another tool of the Oligarchy to marginalize, isolate and annihilate anything even resembling legitimate opposition or reasonable competing ideas.

I mean, we already have this here in a de facto sense, all they want to do is to formalize it into yet another tool to silence any opposition to the Oligarchy. ;)
Click to expand...
I was being a bit sarcastic actually. If the Delegate supported government wishes to impede the personal liberty of its members, so be it.
Click to expand...
You've got a point there. As I have said before, the best way to show people that they are making a mistake is to let them make a mistake and suffer the consequences themselves. You can tell people not to defecate on their own doorstep and they will only defecate in that location with increased vigour. People cannot process 'negatives' which is proven psychological fact. You have to positively encourage people to do silly things to actually get them to think before they act. ;)

Yes, I have read everything Nietzsche has ever written. :D
 
Romanoffia:
People cannot process 'negatives' which is proven psychological fact. You have to positively encourage people to do silly things to actually get them to think before they act. ;)

Yes, I have read everything Nietzsche has ever written. :D
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What does any of that mean? Where is this proven Psychological fact?
 
Romanoffia:
Yes, I have read everything Nietzsche has ever written. :D
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That's a lot of reading. It's a wonder you had time for all the other stuff.
Writings and philosophy[edit]

Aus meinem Leben, 1858 (From My Life)

Über Musik, 1858 (On Music)

Napoleon III als Praesident, 1862 (Napoleon III as a President)

Fatum und Geschichte, 1862 (Fate and History)

Willensfreiheit und Fatum, 1862 (Free Will and Fate)

Kann der Neidische je wahrhaft glücklich sein?, 1863 (Can the Envious Ever Be Truly Happy?)

Über Stimmungen, 1864 (On Tendencies)

Mein Leben, 1864 (My Life)

Homer und die klassische Philologie, 1868 (Homer and the classic Philology)

Über die Zukunft unserer Bildungsanstalten, 1872 (On the Future of our Seminaries)

Fünf Vorreden zu fünf ungeschriebenen Büchern, 1872 (Five Prefaces on five unwritten Books) comprising:

Über das Pathos der Wahrheit (On the Pathos of Truth)

Gedanken über die Zukunft unserer Bildungsanstalten (Thoughts on the Future of Our Educational Institutions)

Der griechische Staat (The Greek State)

Das Verhältnis der Schopenhauerischen Philosophie zu einer deutschen Cultur (The Relation between a Schopenhauerian Philosophy and a German Culture)

Homers Wettkampf (Homer's Contest)

Die Geburt der Tragödie, 1872 (The Birth of Tragedy)

Über Wahrheit und Lüge im außermoralischen Sinn, 1873 (On Truth and Lies in a Nonmoral Sense)

Die Philosophie im tragischen Zeitalter der Griechen (Philosophy in the Tragic Age of the Greeks)

Unzeitgemässe Betrachtungen (Untimely Meditations) comprising:
David Strauss: der Bekenner und der Schriftsteller, 1873 (David Strauss: the Confessor and the Writer)

Vom Nutzen und Nachtheil der Historie für das Leben, 1874 (On the Use and Abuse of History for Life)

Schopenhauer als Erzieher, 1874 (Schopenhauer as Educator)

Richard Wagner in Bayreuth, 1876

Menschliches, Allzumenschliches, 1878 (Human, All-Too-Human)

Vermischte Meinungen und Sprüche, 1879 (Mixed Opinions and Maxims)

Der Wanderer und sein Schatten, 1880 (The Wanderer and His Shadow)

Morgenröte, 1881 (The Dawn)

Die fröhliche Wissenschaft, 1882, 1887 (The Gay Science)

Also sprach Zarathustra, 1883-5 (Thus Spoke Zarathustra)

Jenseits von Gut und Böse, 1886 (Beyond Good and Evil)

Zur Genealogie der Moral, 1887 (On the Genealogy of Morality)

Der Fall Wagner, 1888 (The Case of Wagner)

Götzen-Dämmerung, 1888 (The Twilight of the Idols)

Der Antichrist, 1888 (The Antichrist)

Ecce Homo, 1888

Nietzsche contra Wagner, 1888

Der Wille zur Macht, first published 1901

'Writings from the Late Notebooks', ed. Rüdiger Bittner, Cambridge University Press, 2003, ISBN 0-521-00887-5

'Philosophy and Truth: Selections from Nietzsche's Notebooks of the Early 1870s', ed. and trans. Daniel Breazeale, Prometheus Books, 1990, ISBN 1-57392-532-2

Philosophy in the Tragic Age of the Greeks, trans. Marianne Cowan, Regnery Publishing, 1996, ISBN 0-89526-710-1

The Pre-Platonic Philosophers, trans. Greg Whitlock, University of Illinois Press, 2001, ISBN 0-252-02559-8

Unmodern observations. Yale University Press. 1990. ISBN 0-300-04311-2.

Philology

De fontibus Laertii Diogenii

Über die alten hexametrischen Nomen

Über die Apophthegmata und ihre Sammler

Über die literarhistorischen Quellen des Suidas

Über die Quellen der Lexikographen

Poetry[edit]

Idyllen aus Messina written 1882 (Idylls from Messina)

Dionysos-Dithyramben, written 1888, published 1892 (Dionysian-Dithyrambs)


Music
This is not a complete list. A title not dated was composed during the same year as the title preceding it. Further information for many of the works listed below may be found at this site annotated within the time of their composition and this site (both depict Nietzsche's musical thought and development). Most pieces available for listening are excerpts.

Allegretto, for piano, before 1858, listen

Hoch tut euch auf, chorus, December 1858

Einleitung (trans: Introduction), piano duet

Phantasie, piano duet, December 1859

Miserere, chorus for 5 voices, summer 1860

Einleitung (or: Entwürfe zu einem Weihnachtsoratorium), oratorio on piano, December 1861

Hüter, ist die Nacht bald hin?, chorus (in fragments)

Presto, piano duet

Overture for Strings (?)

Aus der Tiefe rufe ich (?)

String Quartet Piece (?)

Schmerz ist der Grundton der Natur (?)

Einleitung, orchestral overture for piano

Mein Platz vor der Tur, NWV 1, solo voice and piano, autumn 1861, listen

Heldenklage, piano, 1862

Klavierstuck, piano

Ungarischer Marsch, piano

Zigeunertanz, piano

Edes titok (or: Still und ergeben), piano

Aus der Jugendzeit, NWV 8, solo voice and piano, summer 1862, listen

So lach doch mal, piano, August 1862

Da geht ein Bach, NWV 10b, listen

Im Mondschein auf der Puszta, piano, September 1862

Ermanarich, piano, September 1862

Mazurka, piano, November 1862

Aus der Czarda, piano, November 1862, listen

Das zerbrochene Ringlein, NWV 14, May 1863, listen

Albumblatt, piano, August 1863

Wie sich Rebenranken schwingen, NWV 16, summer 1863, voice and piano, listen

Nachlang einer Sylvestenacht, duet for violin and piano, January 2 1864, listen

Beschwörung, NWV 20, listen

Nachspiel, NWV 21, listen

Ständchen, NWV 22

Unendlich, NWV 23, listen

Verwelkt, NWV 24, listen

Ungewitter, NWV 25, 1864, listen

Gern und gerner, NWV 26, listen

Das Kind an die erloschene Kerze, NWV 27, listen

Es winkt und neigt sich, NWV 28, listen

Die junge Fischerin, NWV 29, voice and piano, June 1865, listen

O weint um sie, choir and piano, December 1865

Herbstlich sonnige Tage, piano and 4 voices, April 1867

Adel Ich muss nun gehen, 4 voices, August 1870

Das "Fragment an sich", piano, October 1871

Kirchengeschichtliches Responsorium, chorus and piano, November 1871

Manfred-Meditation, 1872, final ver. 1877, listen

Monodie à deux (or: Lob der Barmherzigkeit), piano, February 1873

Hymnus an die Freundschaft (trans: Hymn to Friendship; also: Festzug der

Freunde zum Tempel der Freundschaft, trans: Festival of Friends at the Temple of Friendship), piano, December 29 1874, listen

Gebet an das Leben (trans: Prayer to Life), NWV 41, solo voice and piano, 1882, text by Lou Andreas-Salome, listen

Hymnus an das Leben (trans: Hymn to Life), chorus and orchestra, summer 1887

Apocrypha
My Sister and I, allegedly translated by Oscar Levy, considered by Walter Kaufmann and Denis Dutton to be a forgery.

Other

Thoughts out of Season, Part 1 is edited by Oscar Levy and translated by Anthony M. Ludovici. It was published in 1909 by T. N. Foulis 13 & 15 Frederick St., Edinburgh and London. It is available on the WWW at Thoughts Out of Season Part One. It contains David Strauss, the Confessor and the Writer and Richard Wagner in Bayreuth.
C.G. Jung cites this as his first introduction to Nietzsche in his autobiography Memories, Dreams, Reflections page 102 ISBN 0-679-72395-1, and claims to have been 'carried away by its enthusiasm'.
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Possibly. I might play around with the wording unless people are fine with it?
 
Absolutely nothing. I've no intention to do anything further with it. I still support the idea of a censure bill I'm just completely out of ideas on how to improve what I currently.

If someone wants to pick it up and run it, they have my full support.
 
As the bill's sponsor has withdrawn the bill, I shall lock this thread relatively soon, if I have misunderstood the sponsor's meaning they shall have to say so before I do so. If a member wishes to take up the bill, they should start another thread to do so.
 
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