OP-ED. WHO SHOULD GET YOUR VOTE AS DELEGATE?

There we disagree. I do not see getting McM another term as "irresponsible". I will accept that it is playing the system, but that is what systems are for.
 
Treize_Dreizehn:
If a "majority of the region" had truly wanted McM to run for another term they'd have changed the law in time. They didn't
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Well, the majority of the RA anyway. But yes, I believe the RA vote was conclusive in that regard.
 
falapatorius:
Treize_Dreizehn:
If a "majority of the region" had truly wanted McM to run for another term they'd have changed the law in time. They didn't
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Well, the majority of the RA anyway. But yes, I believe the RA vote was conclusive in that regard.
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I do not think that is a conclusion you can necessarily draw. I know some people who would have been happy to see McM have one more term who would not, in all conscience, vote for the removal of term limits altogether.

Let's put it to the electorate, shall we? :w00t:
 
flemingovia:
I know some people who would have been happy to see McM have one more term who would not, in all conscience, vote for the removal of term limits altogether.
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Well, It is reassuring those people don't support changing the law (thus far anyway) to accommodate one person (or his/her noisy champions).
 
Ive only been here 2 months. But yes. I like the cut of McMs jib. I Wouldnt mind seeing him as delegate again. But I was uncomfortable getting rid of term limits all together. If they were amended to let someone be elected for three 4 month cycles (a year) I feel that would be satisfactory. It is what it is. McM can take a term off to do whatever he wants or needs to do then if he wants run again in September.
 
It does raise an interesting question, could the RA have the power to (and if not, could/should we look at amending the constibillicode to) allow exemptions to the term limits enshrined in said constibillicode?
 
You know we could all just choose to ignore what the law says and just keep McMaster in the delegacy. Don't let the constibillicode get in the way of a good thing.
 
Mall:
You know we could all just choose to ignore what the law says and just keep McMaster in the delegacy. Don't let the constibillicode get in the way of a good thing.
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*snicker*

rewrite/ignore/cleverly attempt to circumvent.. same intended result in this instance.
 
Mall:
You know we could all just choose to ignore what the law says and just keep McMaster in the delegacy. Don't let the constibillicode get in the way of a good thing.
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Ladies and gents your future delegate :P ;) :shifty:
 
flemingovia:
Romanoffia:
Which means that you would be running for Delegate under false pretenses, which in turn would be gross misconduct at best, and directly an attempt to overthrow the intent of the term limitations clause (three consecutive terms being prohibited as the intent).

Such a course of action is no better than what rogues have done or attempted to do in the past: use the Constitution as a means to violate the Constitution in intent and spirit.
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I am astonished to hear such words from the Chief Justice of the region, and can only assume that his own political ambitions for the power of the delegacy have clouded his legal judgement.

The courts have repeatedly refused to speculate on the intent of the framers of our laws, limiting their opinions to what our laws actually say. I suggest objections are framed continuing that spirit.

... false pretenses (sic) ... gross misconduct ... an attempt to overthrow ... rogues ... nothing short of a tortuous coup ... Risky....
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As for the issue of this being somehow a "rogue" action, the Chief Justice is fortunate that he is protected by the lack of a civil court in TNP, because the language and tone of his post borders on slanderous.

Far from having false pretences, I am being utterly transparent in my motives and actions. I am not seeking power in TNP. What I am seeking to do in (let me remind you) a political simulation is to use the political process to achieve a desired political end.

This is the same as you are doing through the vehemence of your post, which is blatantly to prevent a course of action taking place that would prevent your ascendance to the throne.

I am always suspicious of someone who seems too hungry for power. My motives are utterly transparent. Are yours? Should we be worried?
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Oh, puhleez. You always seem to ascribe to others some kind of 'ambitious' motivations when there are none.

After all these years, if you think I am motived by power, you must be dipping into the happy sauce a bit too much. That is something NO ONE can ever accuse me of.

I mean, how can you even level such an accusation after you declare yourself God and try to get some crackpot religion declared the official state religion? Methinks you engage in projection a wee bit.
 
flemingovia:
mcmasterdonia:
Even if I was Vice Delegate and the Delegate resigned - that would trigger a special election. I would be ineligible to run in said election.
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I disagree.

two clauses of our laws come into effect:

The constitution, Article 3

11. If the Delegate is removed or unable to serve, the Vice Delegate will assume the duties of the Delegate. If the Vice Delegate is also unable to serve, the first available person in the line of succession will assume the duties of the Delegate.
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Please note, the constitution does not say "shall assume the duties of the delegate until a special election."

The legal code, Chapter 4:

Section 4.5: Special Elections
20. A special election will be held in the event of a vacancy in any elected office or position, unless the election would be unable to conclude prior to the beginning of the scheduled election cycle for that office.
21. The Delegate, or if the Delegate is not available, the Vice Delegate, or if the Delegate and Vice Delegate are not available, the Speaker, will serve as Election Commissioner for the special election.
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On the plain reading of the next, these seem to be contradictory, until you realise that in the event of the removal of a delegate there is no vacancy in the office, the Vice Delegate steps up serves, as the Constitution says.

the line of succession comes into play if the VD will not, or cannot serve as delegate. Unless the Security council decides to unilaterally ignore Article 3:11 of the constitution.
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I have a feeling that was challenged in court - or at least heavily discussed by the RA when Delegate Eluvatar was recalled and Tim was Vice Delegate.

Additionally: I would say that people did not vote against the constitutional amendment because they do not wish for me to have another term. Indeed, I can have another term, just not another consecutive term. (I believe GBM, Grosse and Romanoffia said this)

I haven't heard anyone say to me that they do not wish for me to be Delegate again based on performance issues or personal matters. Only that they have a personal objection to removing term limits because there is a strong advantage to the incumbent and in my case it would be difficult and unlikely for someone to mount a challenge and win. I am not making that case myself, but simply stating what I have been told and what you can read from the discussion thread in the RA.

SillyString also made the incredibly valid point that it is not an entirely bad thing to have a less popular or whatever Delegate for a couple of terms. People play this game differently and the RA and the region will need to adjust to a new Delegate. This will either happen now, or if I had been allowed to run again - in another four months.

Other people have told me they would support removing elections entirely. I don't support that. I don't support taking the Delegacy through underhanded means and I won't be ignoring the constitution in that regard.

I have had an incredibly opportunity to be elected Delegate on 4 occasions. I am disappointed to step down and I will miss the job and what it involves. However what I want, isn't the only relevant factor here and I can understand the arguments against term limits even if I don't agree with all of them.

I have stated before and I reiterate now, that I intend to support the new Delegate as best I can and as much as he or she requires. I'm not disappearing, I will still be here. I appreciate all the kind words of support and that others are genuinely happy with my Delegacy and disappointed to see me step down. I would prefer for us to focus on the election and start thinking about who we want to be Delegate for the next four months.
 
Romanoffia:
Oh, puhleez. You always seem to ascribe to others some kind of 'ambitious' motivations when there are none.

After all these years, if you think I am motived by power, you must be dipping into the happy sauce a bit too much. That is something NO ONE can ever accuse me of.

I mean, how can you even level such an accusation after you declare yourself God and try to get some crackpot religion declared the official state religion? Methinks you engage in projection a wee bit.
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I'm accused of being a drunk and having a psychological issue, all in one post?

Can I respectfully suggest that you lay off the ad hominem attacks? I will accept the accusation that I am the grandson of a drunk. It was one of the defining factors of my early life. But I post sober.

I am not sure of the relevance of Flemingovianism here (since I am not currently standing for office). It was a bit of fun, and would have been a lot of fun for the Region, but I dropped the idea. This was not because I lost a vote, but because in the course of the debate it because obvious that some people (yourself included) were not capable of separating an online game from real life, and were taking the whole thing way too seriously. Your loss.

as for my supposed mental issue of "projection", I do not have any power ambitions in TNP. I am asked to stand for office in every cycle, and every cycle I refuse. I play the game now for fun, not power.
 
"I always cheer up immensely if an attack is particularly wounding because I think, well, if they attack one personally, it means they have not a single political argument left" - the Greatest Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, Margaret Thatcher.

:P
 
greatest apart from Churchill, Gladstone, Palmerstone, Disreili, Atlee, Lloyd George, Walpole, Pitt the Younger and Robert Peel.

But it is a good, and apt, quote.
 
mcmasterdonia:
"I always cheer up immensely if an attack is particularly wounding because I think, well, if they attack one personally, it means they have not a single political argument left" - the Greatest Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, Margaret Thatcher.

:P
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I don't love you anymore. :(
 
Flem: You forgot the Vacancy clause. The VD takes on the duties of the delegate, but not the title or position. Any recall or resignation by the Delegate still creates a vacancy in the office, which is what triggers the special election. The VD just gets to hold the reins for a little while.
 
It's not necessarily that I don't want to - but I think the region would benefit from someone else in that position. I thought long and hard about it. Yes, I would probably enjoy being VD, but I decided to give people the opportunity of an open race.

I am trying to think of the next generation of leaders here. I believe that becoming VD is a good next step for Abacathea and for many other members of the region.

I admit though that I am disappointed there wasn't as much interest for the position as I had hoped.
 
flemingovia:
Romanoffia:
Oh, puhleez. You always seem to ascribe to others some kind of 'ambitious' motivations when there are none.

After all these years, if you think I am motived by power, you must be dipping into the happy sauce a bit too much. That is something NO ONE can ever accuse me of.

I mean, how can you even level such an accusation after you declare yourself God and try to get some crackpot religion declared the official state religion? Methinks you engage in projection a wee bit.
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I'm accused of being a drunk and having a psychological issue, all in one post?

Can I respectfully suggest that you lay off the ad hominem attacks? I will accept the accusation that I am the grandson of a drunk. It was one of the defining factors of my early life. But I post sober.

I am not sure of the relevance of Flemingovianism here (since I am not currently standing for office). It was a bit of fun, and would have been a lot of fun for the Region, but I dropped the idea. This was not because I lost a vote, but because in the course of the debate it because obvious that some people (yourself included) were not capable of separating an online game from real life, and were taking the whole thing way too seriously. Your loss.

as for my supposed mental issue of "projection", I do not have any power ambitions in TNP. I am asked to stand for office in every cycle, and every cycle I refuse. I play the game now for fun, not power.
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Odd. You hit me with an ad hom attack and then get upset when served up the same. When I was using the term 'projection', it had nothing to do with power.


Nothing personal, but you should have responded in a manner not dissimilar to how Winston Churchill (THE greatest Prime Minister of all times) and said something like this:

"Yes, Roman, I am drunk, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still smell like a giant wheel of over-ripe Stilton."


Again, I find your accusation that I am just seeking power as an ad hom attack and a very disturbing personal insult. You should know better than to make such an absurd and ridiculous accusation. If you are going to insult me, at least be funny about it.

I also find your insults quite insulting because you seem to have lost your venerable ability to get a good laugh with a more than venerable amount of creativity.

...because [it is] obvious that some people (yourself included) were not capable of separating an online game from real life, and were taking the whole thing way too seriously. Your loss.
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I see it as a victory of the Cheese God. Now excuse me, I have to go down in the cellar and change out the wheel of Stinking Bishop cheese on the candle-lit alter there. No, really, I do. It's stinking up the house so much that the cats are refusing to use the litter box.

Now, on to that matter of the creation of an official Ministry of Cheese. Who shall I create Lord High Cheesemaker? Oh, never mind.


















And some people say I have no sense of humor. :cheese:

Lighten up, dude.
 
Umm... The "accusation" that you are seeking power is no more than a statement of fact. You are running for delegate, the only position of actual power in these elections.

I find it odd that you accuse me of promoting a "crackpot" religion, then bang on about the cheese god. Very amusing.
 
mcmasterdonia:
It's not necessarily that I don't want to - but I think the region would benefit from someone else in that position. I thought long and hard about it. Yes, I would probably enjoy being VD, but I decided to give people the opportunity of an open race.

I am trying to think of the next generation of leaders here. I believe that becoming VD is a good next step for Abacathea and for many other members of the region.

I admit though that I am disappointed there wasn't as much interest for the position as I had hoped.
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I think new ideas are more important than new faces. And sometimes you have to be around for a while to see the wood from the trees.

This is why I am running for vice delegate on a platform never seen before in tnp.
 
I agree. I think new ideas are more important. Not necessarily all new ideas though xD

Even though I wanted to run, I didn't think I should. I don't rule out running for a position in the future though.
 
mcmasterdonia:
I agree. I think new ideas are more important. Not necessarily all new ideas though xD.
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Then engage with the idea. Come over to my campaign thread and explain why you imply that my idea is a bad one.

TNP is at its best when new ideas are discussed rather than dismissed out of hand. Let's talk about this one.
 
flemingovia:
Umm... The "accusation" that you are seeking power is no more than a statement of fact. You are running for delegate, the only position of actual power in these elections.

I find it odd that you accuse me of promoting a "crackpot" religion, then bang on about the cheese god. Very amusing.
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Uh, wrong.

I'm not running for Delegate out of a desire to wield power. I'm running to make TNP a more interesting and fun place to reside. I firmly believe that silly things matter too. Within reasonable limits, of course.

And, in case you missed the irony, The Cheese God and Cheesism is supposed to be a crackpot religion. It is supposed to be a kooky alternative to the kookiness of Flemingovianism. It's a parody. It's an alternative. It's a shampoo and a floor cleaner all wrapped up in one! It was supposed to be amusing.

I mean, what could be more fun than a pseudo-religion that worshiped cheese or a pseudo-religion that worshiped a self-proclaimed omnipotent deity that delivered miracles after the fact and claimed them to be the result of divine inspiration before the fact? I'll tell you what could be more fun - an interaction of those 'religions' to gain the 'spiritual soul' of TNP. While you were trying to engage in radical political change in TNP under the guise of a religion in a vitriolic fashion, I was having fun with TNP politics (metaphorically) by metaphorically reducing the 40 years Moses spent wandering in the wilderness to nothing more than a banal Bedouin tromp in the desert (in terms of comparison. I never mentioned Moses but I suspect he ate a good amount of cheese, metaphorically speaking because there are no Kosher cheeses as far as I know).

At any rate, you missed the ironic and sardonic boat on that challenge which is a pity because a lot of fun could have been had to the amusement of all.

Pity, really, considering the fodder for epic humor.

In the mean time, the Cheese God is on holiday in the Duchess of Cambridge's under-garment drawers and drinking vast quantities of Newcastle Brown Ale.
 
Romanoffia:
(I never mentioned Moses but I suspect he ate a good amount of cheese, metaphorically speaking because there are no Kosher cheeses as far as I know).
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Rennet, which is used as a curdling agent for cheese-making, comes from animal sources, usually (but not always) the stomach lining of calves. If it is a kosher species of animal, ritually slaughtered under rabbinical supervision and the rennet extracted, and a kashrus supervisor kashers the cheese-making equipment, then a commercial cheese maker is well-positioned to produce a batch run of kosher cheese using the kosher rennet only. The cheese must still be finished to completion under rabbinical supervision because of a separate prohibition against the use of cheese produced by non-Jews; the rabbinical supervision ensures that the batch is "Jewish-produced."

Mice are not under any restrictions to eat only kosher cheese. And all cats may eat non-kosher mice.

>^,,^<
Alunya
 
Alunya:
Romanoffia:
(I never mentioned Moses but I suspect he ate a good amount of cheese, metaphorically speaking because there are no Kosher cheeses as far as I know).
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Rennet, which is used as a curdling agent for cheese-making, comes from animal sources, usually (but not always) the stomach lining of calves. If it is a kosher species of animal, ritually slaughtered under rabbinical supervision and the rennet extracted, and a kashrus supervisor kashers the cheese-making equipment, then a commercial cheese maker is well-positioned to produce a batch run of kosher cheese using the kosher rennet only. The cheese must still be finished to completion under rabbinical supervision because of a separate prohibition against the use of cheese produced by non-Jews; the rabbinical supervision ensures that the batch is "Jewish-produced."

Mice are not under any restrictions to eat only kosher cheese. And all cats may eat non-kosher mice.

>^,,^<
Alunya
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Yes, but whoever heard of a non-kosher mouse knisch? :lol:

I suspect that there are no kosher mice because they are so hard to circumcise? :horror: :lol:
 
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