Query for the Courts

This is not aggressive, nor even remotely upset. I'm simply curious.

I recently posted in a topic that hadn't seen a post since early last month, and was cautioned against 'gravedigging'. Said topic was then closed.

Now most regions that I've been in have very strict rules for when a moderator or admin may close a topic (I am for example an admin in The Allied Republics, and so know the temptation to close old topics) because of Free Speech legislation.

Now having read your bill of rights there is a clear, and absolute, protection of Free Speech. So my query is this:

-Does an admin have the right to close a topic on the basis of inactivity (thus denying people the right to freely comment on the topic)
-Can any prohibition on 'gravedigging' of old topics be legally enforceable, given its implicit time limit on free speech (i.e. you must comment within x days or not at all)

I'm not petitioning for redress, nor for any injunction or writ. I am merely asking for legal clarification, and perhaps a pointer to any pertinent laws that I may have missed.

I cannot speak as a member of the court. But to my understanding, this would be a question for forum administration not the courts. As TNP laws regarding the region and the forum is kept seperate. While a forum admin may hold multiple roles in our government. Forum administering is kept divorced of regional politics. The forum and the use and rules over the forum are an island kept to itself.

So as to your particular incident. I would surmise it it up to the indivdual moderator or admin to decide. So your question is best answered in the forum operations sub forum.

Though I too would be interrested in what constitutes "grave digging" and why Mcm chose the route he chose. I read the thread in question. And felt you had a meaningful post. And I also observe you are new. So In my opinion a person new to the forum who sees a post abiet an old one and sought to add a meaningful comment to it. I would not consider that grave digging. To me I feel that stiffles open communication and participation. Even though a thread is old. Sometimes discussions go in cycles and people arent interrested in a topic until someone new comes along with intrest to breathe new life into it. I also would like to note of curoisity, that I made a comment in march, as I was interrested in the topic. I have some Criminal Justice education from my trade technical school in policing 101 and private security with courses in constitutional search and seizure law and court structure and procedures ect. And i have self taught myself other aspects as well as occassionally read court decisions. Prior to my comment there had been no activity since December. I did not recieve a similar warning. In fact in my personal opinion I do not feel any of us dug any graves as we attempted to faciliate meaningful discussion on an old topic. What I feel constitutes grave digging is purposely posting non sensical spammy posts on old threads in attemot to spam them to the top of the board. I do not feel this occured.

Also, ive read the forum rules on the 'rules' link it talks about signatures and a warning system, personal messages and zetaboards TOS. No mention of grave digging or forum ettiqute posting requirements. Unless I missed it in a subforum pinned topic somewhere.

Like I said, guess it it up to each moderators discretion. And the court cannot help you as the court only hears cases concerning the constibillicode. For forum questions you would need to consult the oracle of forum operations and appeal to the forum admins thierselves. Thanks.

Yeah Crushing our Enemies was telling me about this divorce between regional law and the forum admins... its weird.

Who takes precedence? And Why should an admin (who I presume isn't elected) be able to do things that would normally constitute a breach of law?

Its one thing to build flexibility into law so that admins are able to do their (oftentimes difficult) jobs- that is absolutely essential- but another thing entirely to give them extra-judicial status. Where is the accountability?



also, what is the constabillicode? it is a weird word haha

The constibillicode is the affectionate name TNPers have given the body of regional laws. The Constitution, Bill of Rights, and Legal code. When combined in conversation they become the constibillicode.

And Yes, I think it is a fair point, Admins and Moderators should act consistently. If it is left up to discretion. Some admins and mods may have different thresholds of discretion. But like I said I am about 99.9% sure this is beyond the scope of the court. You would need to talk to admins directly. Maybe poliety ask them to put something in writing regarding posting ettiqute so that each mod may enforce it fairly across the board instead of each situation being left up to their discretionary feels at the moments. The admins dont bite, you can ask them questions and critisims for the betterment of the community and they will take it in stride and take it under advisement.

PaulWallLibertarian42:

The constibillicode is the affectionate name TNPers have given the body of regional laws. The Constitution, Bill of Rights, and Legal code. When combined in conversation they become the constibillicode.

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Ah right, okay haha

It wasn't an official warning from me or anything like that. Just a small piece of advice that I thought would be useful to you. We sometimes have members who join the forum and then reply to posts that are years old (sometimes tens of different threads) and we have seen quite a bit of that over the past few months. I'm glad that you were not upset by this, it was simply to assist you in adjusting to this regional forum.

Grave digging of threads, posting inappropriate comments, or flaming (as a couple of examples, there are certainly more) are generally handled by forum administration or moderators on this forum. You may sometimes be cautioned or warned - although only when something serious happens that is in breach of the terms of service or universally regarded as inappropriate.

In your case today, that was neither of those things, but simply some advice from me. The thread in particular had originally became 'inactive' at the end of 2013. It was then dug up again in March and then today as well. If the thread is old it will normally be archived. Some areas are in serious need of archival and I am hopeful that we will be able to get around to those areas in the next month or so.

Like I said, more legal curiosity than any upset on my part.

I find the best way to integrate with a new region is to dive right in, find something to moan about, and try to fix it.

Then you have come to the right place.

There's plenty of moaning that goes on in TNP.

I feel the commenting/locking inactive threads need expanded on.

From my personal point of view, please hear me out...is that a topic is then only available for a limited time, which then I feel in unfair to newer members who come to the forum and see an old thread they are interrested in, but then for fear of the specter of being perceived as digging up an old thread they can't comment on it. To me that comes across as "you should have been a member sooner." And it stifles expression. I understand not wanting the forum spammed. So if a person sees s thread they are earnestly interested in, would you rather let them A. Comment on an old thread. B. Make a similar thread on the same topic (multiposting the same idea so then the forum is flooded with similar posts) or C. You snooze you lose?

Like I said I understand grave digging to be maliciously posting random nonsense on old threads to spam them to the top of the most recent posts, not posting something of contribution to the topic at hand. Thank you.

punk d:

Then you have come to the right place.

There's plenty of moaning that goes on in TNP.

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That's just the normal noises around here.

Gravedigging can be a forum admin's worst nightmare - not because of possible malicious intent on the part of the 'gravedigger', but because it can create a lot of unnecessary clutter on a forum. Most of the time it happens because someone isn't paying attention to the age of the thread and its length of activity. However, occasionally gravedigging is motivated by people who deliberately try to disrupt a forum or unnecessarily trying to open old wounds, a most pernicious behavior at times.

I admin three forums unrelated to NS (and probably of really uninteresting subject matter to most of us here ). When 'gravedigging' occurs in a non-belligerent or unintentional fashion, I usually split the thread and make a reference to the referenced thread, just for the sake of clarity (if it is a relevant post). On one forum I admin which deals with essentially historic matters, 'grave digging' is actually permissible if it furthers a certain subject matter in the thread. Usually, most people innately will link to a particular source/relevant post/thread in a new thread if it is a legitimate subject.

One of the big bitches I have about gravedigging is when it is done by spammers who have no real interest in the forum. They way I deal with that one is to automatically lock threads that have been inactive for more than 30 days (which is easier said than done in most forum formats).

Essentially, 'gravedigging' is more of a forum admin issue rather than a 'legal' issue in terms of gameplay or role playing.

PaulWallLibertarian42:

I feel the commenting/locking inactive threads need expanded on.

From my personal point of view, please hear me out...is that a topic is then only available for a limited time, which then I feel in unfair to newer members who come to the forum and see an old thread they are interrested in, but then for fear of the specter of being perceived as digging up an old thread they can't comment on it. To me that comes across as "you should have been a member sooner." And it stifles expression. I understand not wanting the forum spammed. So if a person sees s thread they are earnestly interested in, would you rather let them A. Comment on an old thread. B. Make a similar thread on the same topic (multiposting the same idea so then the forum is flooded with similar posts) or C. You snooze you lose?

Like I said I understand grave digging to be maliciously posting random nonsense on old threads to spam them to the top of the most recent posts, not posting something of contribution to the topic at hand. Thank you.

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I think that it would be preferable to make a new thread rather than digging up an old one. It is great if you find something that interests you, but it can clutter the forum and to most people it will be viewed as an old discussion that has already taken place. I'm sure you could be creative enough to bring it up in a different way - or even refer to the old thread in your opening post. That has happened plenty of times before.

I would rather B.

Thank you for your clarification.

Forum moderation is more of an art than a science. Those forums that have developed strict rules about things like moderating behaviour and locking threads have ended up with admins who are little more than pen-pushers and more unhappiness because people often rub up against inflexible rules.

Here in TNP (at least on the admin side of things) we have tended to avoid hard rules. instead we try to choose admins with common sense and wisdom and then trust them to get it right ... most of the time. Because sometimes we do get it wrong. But generally in those cases we put our hands up and correct the mistake. Without the need of courts or laws.

this is in contrast with the RA who cannot even correct a numbering error without passing new laws to cover the issue.

flemingovia:

...this is in contrast with the RA who cannot even correct a numbering error without passing new laws to cover the issue.

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You mean that it's a perfect example of this?:

"A camel is a horse designed by a committee." ------- Alec Issigonis