Cancelling of TNP/Taijitu Treaty

Funkadelia

Funkadelia

TNPer
TNP Nation
Funkadelia Island
I propose that The North Pacific cancel its alliance with the region of Taijitu. My reasoning is that the region is essentially dead. There have not been elections in god knows how long, the founder has ceased to exist, and the nation count has dropped dramatically, and is continuing to drop. There's really no sense in having an alliance with a dead region.
 
At 67 nations, its regional power is still ranked "Very High". I also count 29 WA member nations, which is a pretty good ratio. Is there any reason why TNP needs to cut loose regions like this?
 
I agree with ash.

Cutting ties with Taijitu does not seem to be in the interests of TNP.

Declaring an Ally dead because they have a low nation count is rather extreme behavior.
 
We're really trigger happy in this region at times.

I think we should take a much more measured approach.

Why don't we, rather than canceling this alliance, discuss whether or not we wish to continue to be aligned with this region.

Also - it seems like it would not endear us with future allies if whenever an ally goes through some doldrums, we cancel an alliance.
 
punk d:
We're really trigger happy in this region at times.

I think we should take a much more measured approach.

Why don't we, rather than canceling this alliance, discuss whether or not we wish to continue to be aligned with this region.

Also - it seems like it would not endear us with future allies if whenever an ally goes through some doldrums, we cancel an alliance.
Click to expand...
Thank you for making those points.
 
There's a very real question as to whether we should have some of the alliances we do.

It's great that we're aligned with TSP, for example but a faction within TNP worked against us in aiding our allies and there have been no consequences. So what is the point in a treaty?

Also Stargate and Taijitu both present no real benefit to TNP. It's horrible but true.

For those of you who call shenanigans and are new - I would remind you that Funkadelia is actually the former delegate of Taijitu (if I recall).
 
punk d:
We're really trigger happy in this region at times.

I think we should take a much more measured approach.

Why don't we, rather than canceling this alliance, discuss whether or not we wish to continue to be aligned with this region.

Also - it seems like it would not endear us with future allies if whenever an ally goes through some doldrums, we cancel an alliance.
Click to expand...
I fully agree.
 
Forgive me for being an ignorant newbie for having been away a while! :blush:

But what are our obligations regarding this treaty/alliance?

Sad to see Taijitu dying a little, with the founder CTEing, but there are still a lot of good people over there so would be nice for us not to do anything too hasty.
 
Wilkshire:
Forgive me for being an ignorant newbie for having been away a while! :blush:

But what are our obligations regarding this treaty/alliance?

Sad to see Taijitu dying a little, with the founder CTEing, but there are still a lot of good people over there so would be nice for us not to do anything too hasty.
Click to expand...
Not to be a pain but there is a big "Laws" link on the top of your page for a reason. Please look there. Treaties / Laws can be found there :)
 
I have been a cabinet member, Senator, and Delegate of Taijitu. On the forums, even the last guy who kind of stuck around hasn't posted in a week. Almost none of the 6 founders have logged in in a long time. In fact, most of their nations have CTEd. Those being:

Myroria,
Gullivania,
St Oz,
Eluvatar,
Red Kagran, and finally
Sovereign Dixie.

All of those nations have access to the founder's password. If Eluvatar has logged in in the past 9 hours (at the time of this post) then why didn't he refound the founder nation? I think everyone's given up on the region. The last legal elections took place the a few days before St. Oz was elected Delegate of Taijitu, which was ~190~200 days ago. The most recent scheduled election had a few nominees, however the elections themselves did not happen. I agree with Kiwi: Why do we keep alliances with regions who are dead and/or do not have any gain for us? It shouldn't be all about the regions we are allying with; there should be something in it for us as well.
 
As far as I know Eluvatar uses a script to log into his main, and for some reason the Taijitu founder is not incuded in that nation.

I agree with Kiwi though that there is little benefit for us being allied with Taijitu. I guess it comes down to the long standing relations and past history with Taijitu. It's true that the Region no longer has an active forum, and no longer has an active political life or many active members.

Still though- I think if we called upon them in a time of need that they would be able to provide the little bit of support that they could muster, and likewise we would do the same. We could remove it, but to me there seems to be little harm in keeping the treaty.
 
I'm entirely in agreement with MC here. Why exactly did we originally establish the treaty with Taijitut? I would suggest that it wasn't merely about mutual expediency, but shared values, mutual affection and links between our members. They're going through a rough time currently, and quite possibly will never recover - regions do die, even the best of them. But surely they deserve better than for us to turn our backs on them now, to cut our ties and declare our shared history irrelevant. They may not be able to help us much anymore, but they do deserve that we remember our history and offer them what protection and help we can. True friends are there in the bad times as well as the good, and if now - when Taijitu can no longer offer us much - we cut and run then we're not the people who we say we are.
 
Have we, as an ally and friend to the region, offered a hand, or asked the remaining nations in Taijitu if there's anything we can do to help? Or are we just content to sit by and watch them slip into a coma and then pull the plug?

Taijitu Security Treaty:
4. The parties will defend one another to the best of their ability on the request of the other party.
Click to expand...

Do we have a specific definition of "defend" that we adhere to? I should probably go look around before I make assumptions, but short of that, have we really offered aid to the best of our ability to this region in need?
 
I think now that Taijitu is founderless, we should have stronger ties with them than ever.

Stargate is another region that benefits from our protection; perhaps its not that we should cancel the treaty with Taijitu, but instead make it more like the one we have with Stargate.
 
Assuming Eluvatar or Gulliver or one of the other Taijitu founders return to the game, it won't be founderless forever. But I agree that we could do more to help them, certainly we should keep an eye on the region and deploy our army to support the Delegate their if anything is up, or upon his request.
 
I agree with Blue Wolf- TNP's commitment to this treaty should increase when Taijitu is in such a fragile position. To turn their back on them now would be ethically abhorrent.
 
IndieGirl:
Have we, as an ally and friend to the region, offered a hand, or asked the remaining nations in Taijitu if there's anything we can do to help? Or are we just content to sit by and watch them slip into a coma and then pull the plug?
Click to expand...
Your phrasing made me laugh. You raise a great point, though: do the nations of Taijitu want assistance with getting their region back on its feet, or is there really nothing we can do?

Edit: The East Pacific is withdrawing its embassy from Taijitu for inactivity. :/
 
Ash:
IndieGirl:
Have we, as an ally and friend to the region, offered a hand, or asked the remaining nations in Taijitu if there's anything we can do to help? Or are we just content to sit by and watch them slip into a coma and then pull the plug?
Click to expand...
Your phrasing made me laugh. You raise a great point, though: do the nations of Taijitu want assistance with getting their region back on its feet, or is there really nothing we can do?

Edit: The East Pacific is withdrawing its embassy from Taijitu for inactivity. :/
Click to expand...
Some of the nations I've spoken to in Taijitu are keen for new ideas and getting the region to change as it's paralysed in the absence of Eluvatar and Gulliver. I'm also shocked by Funkadelia's post here as he was a former delegate there and is one of the individuals who is said to have left them in the lurch at one point. There are certainly some who are happy for Taijitu to slip into a coma, and McMasterdonia's thoughts he shared with me seem to echo this. I certainly disagree, and would appreciate any support that residents of Taijitu wish to offer. I won't expect a lot of help from TNP, but the words of support from Bel are noted.

Taijitu's is not the only embassy that TEP has closed. Atrigeas, Equinox, Global Right Alliance, and Ulthar are simultaneously being closed on AMOM's accession to the delegacy.
 
In the absence of Eluvatar, it seems that others will have to step up. I am encouraged that Funkadelia has now taken an active role in getting Taijitu back on its feet. I think in light of this recent development, the cancelling of the TNP/Taijitu Security Treaty is premature.
 
Chasmanthe, with respect you are not even a citizen of Taijitu, and can't legally be one until Eluvatar or one of the other admin founders returns to grant you that right. Whenever that is. Funkadelia and other members of the region have worked hard, but as I said to you it is paralysed due to it's staunch democratic requirements.

I am more than willing to assist Taijitu from a TNP perspective, with military and diplomatic support should they need it. I do remain unwilling to personally get involved in their government, and think the "white knight crusader" approach you are taking is misguided and does not take into consideration the more than 12 months of work that Funkadelia and some of his Senators took to try and revive the region. It is wrong and insulting to allege that Funkadelia left the region in a lurch, given that he was one of it's most active recruiters and one of its most successful Delegates. It was stagnated due to it's strict democratic requirements, which left the government essentially unable to function, and attempts to address that left the government divided.

Until the Founder/Chief Justice returns, and grants the region the right to revoke some of it's quorum requirements no legal changes can be made, at most you can recruit for it, and no elections can occur or be held. I don't feel that TNP should have any role in UCR recruiting, when Eluvatar returns I have confidence that he will do what he /can/ to help revive the region.

I am still against us repealing this treaty, and believe that our past history and relationships should be enough for it to continue to function. Support with military and diplomatic means as necessary, I'm not keen for TNP to get involved in the internal politics of an allied region further than that.
 
Oh gods, did they get caught in quorum requirements? I once made the mistake of writing those into EID's constitution and it took us nearly a year to get out of them. Poor bastards :(
 
Zeorus:
I agree with Blue Wolf- TNP's commitment to this treaty should increase when Taijitu is in such a fragile position. To turn their back on them now would be ethically abhorrent.
Click to expand...
I too agree.

Perhaps we should try to help that region get back on its feet, so to speak. By that I mean give the appropriate nations a poke and get them active, up and running again.
 
Belschaft:
Oh gods, did they get caught in quorum requirements? I once made the mistake of writing those into EID's constitution and it took us nearly a year to get out of them. Poor bastards :(
Click to expand...
Firstly, I originally suggested this because I believed it irreparably dead. However, over the past week or so, I realized that Taijitu can be fixed.

<Taijitu Hat on>
Yes, Belschaft, that is exactly what happened. We tried to make reforms but they were blocked by these silly requirements. Some of us are trying to just, illegally or no, toss out all the current laws and start anew, but some object tot that. Taijitu is where I first "grew up" so to speak, and I realized that if I want to keep that a reality, Taijitu will need to survive. I as well as a few other citizens will be working hard over this summer to get Taijitu back on track, and with luck we will be functioning soon. Just hold on, and I will use the embassy to keep you posted.
 
So then, if this region can be fixed, can we suggest ways of IMPROVING it and getting back on its feet. Cos I'm looking around and I can see many people wanting to end the treaty
 
Emperor Andrew I:
So then, if this region can be fixed, can we suggest ways of IMPROVING it and getting back on its feet. Cos I'm looking around and I can see many people wanting to end the treaty
Click to expand...
We are discussing Taijitu affairs on the Taijitu forum, the Taijitu RMB, and the Taijitu IRC.

I do not believe anyone in TNP is currently in favour of ditching the treaty, but if they are, I would be interested to hear their comments.
 
i really think people get so much involved in this that they forget about real world ,there is actually no real region named Taijitu and there are no real nations who reside in such a region ,its just a forum group whoes members are no longer interested in logging in to a dead forum..
 
Pasargad: There's no real region named Taijitu.
Chasmanthe: Taijitu is a real region.
Pasargad: No. no, it's not.
Chasmanthe: Yes it is. I've seen it.
Pasargad: You've seen it?
Chasmanthe: Yes.
Pasargad: You haven't seen it.
Chasmanthe: Yes, I have.
Pasargad: You've seen a region called Taijitu that's led by the damned and founded by a man so evil that hell itself spat him back out?
Chasmanthe: No.
Pasargad: No.
Chasmanthe: But I have seen Taijitu.
Pasargad: Oh. And no region that's not led by the damned and founded by a man so evil that hell itself spat him back out could possibly be any other region than Taijitu. Is that what you're saying?
Chasmanthe: No.
Pasargad: Like I said, there's no real region…

:jack:
 
GBM: Have you noticed Taijitu is in the same inactive state we left it in last time?
Funkadelia: I had noticed.
GBM: Maybe you'll be able to conjure up another miraculous escape! But I doubt it.
 
I once supported it, but now I dont. I put myself in kind of a position where I can't really express duality, but speaking as a member of Taijitu, it's a very very difficult task but we are slowly trying to make progress.
 
So, perhaps we table the topic of cancelling the treaty for a certain amount of time. Give Taijitu and/or it's member nations a fortnight, or a month, or whatever to try get their act together, or to petition for aid or present ideas as to how we can help. If we get nothing from them in that amount of time, then we reopen the debate to cancel the treaty.

No use hanging on to a dead limb for sentimentality if the thing really is dead, I guess.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top