Motion to recall the Vice Delegate

Abbey

Abbey

TNPer
I would like to propose a recall of Tim as Vice Delegate. This is on the grounds that, in resigning World Assembly status in order to take part in the Liberation of another region, he did not act in the best interests of The North Pacific and hurt the security of the region yet further. He has broken his Oath of Office, in not acting as such, and in neglecting his post.

I feel that there are very few explanations that could be given for the Vice Delegate knowingly disregarding all of the effort in recent weeks to fight unendorsement campaigns against him. I have very much been giving Tim the benefit of the doubt - however, this genuinely does call into question where his priorities lie, as he took part in this liberation not as an NPA member. He also, I'm sure (as he isn't stupid) was well aware of the fact that it is going to supremely difficult to regain endorsements, having the Vice Delegate resign WA is well, not a good look, and is potential ammunition for another TG Campaign, something we could be doing without. Additionally, he hasn't even made any effort at all to regain endorsements - I randomly checked a few TNP WAs, and none have an endorsement from Tim. I also find the timing...interesting, so shortly after losing the Delegate election race - and as much as that is just speculation, it again pulls Tim's motives into question.

With that, I hereby motion to recall Tim as Vice Delegate.
 
I agree that little explanation can really be provided. It's also troubling that he has not endorsed many nations. Eluvatar resigned WA but endorsed every nation in TNP to ensure that he was back within the legal requirements by update. This has not been the case for Tim.
I also question why this has occurred right after the election. The liberation of Dharma is important to Tim and to others, but by leaving TNP he has neglected his constitutional duty.
 
With regret, I third this motion.

EDIT: I took part in the operation with Tim and I still believe his intentions were good, but he cannot remain Vice Delegate of TNP.
 
I'll be abstaining from voting on this motion and from discussion of it, except to say that I find this ironic coming from our do-nothing Attorney General.
 
Cormac Stark:
I'll be abstaining from voting on this motion and from discussion of it, except to say that I find this ironic coming from our do-nothing Attorney General.
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She did do things, she didn't want to get into a case because she didn't have much time till the elections and have to hand over the plans and everything to Punk D would have made a mess. The way she did it worked.
 
Two 100% entirely different situations. I did not not do AG work because of NS. I did it because of something very serious which happened in Real Life which I won't talk about further. Tim knowingly abandoned his post in order to do something in -NS-.

I'd defend myself further, but this is not the place for that argument and you damned well know it.
 
Tyler/Abbey,

Cormac's desire is only to deflect from the issue at hand. i don't think there is a need to entertain nor justify his feeble attempt at trying to get folks to look away from Tim.

Tim

We need more than a drunken response from you on this. I'm withholding my support of this motion until Tim tells us why he did this and why he felt it more important to help liberate Dharma than remain in his post in TNP.
 
This is premature. We should at least wait to hear from Tim.

Not that it'll matter, as most of you seem to have already made up your minds, stemming from being anti-UDL in the first place.
 
Must admit, I agree with Madjack. Tim has promised to explain today, and it seems reasonable to give him a chance before launching straight into a recall motion.

On the wider issue, it is absurd the number of recalls we have in TNP.
 
There's very little, in my opinion, that Tim can say to explain this one. And this is nothing at all to do with my opinion on the UDL. Not once did I say anything about the UDL in my post - I was talking about -Tim-'s actions. Had Tim resigned his WA to do something with any other group then my position would not be altered at all.

What's frustrating for me is that people are assuming this is all to do with a personal vendetta when a. I'd rather not have to propose this and b. This is to do with actions which should be fairly obviously well, wrong EDIT: And c. I don't have one :headbang:
 
Abbey Anumia:
There's very little, in my opinion, that Tim can say to explain this one. And this is nothing at all to do with my opinion on the UDL. Not once did I say anything about the UDL in my post - I was talking about -Tim-'s actions. Had Tim resigned his WA to do something with any other group then my position would not be altered at all.

What's frustrating for me is that people are assuming this is all to do with a personal vendetta when a. I'd rather not have to propose this and b. This is to do with actions which should be fairly obviously well, wrong EDIT: And c. I don't have one :headbang:
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People might find it easier to agree with you that it's not about the UDL if you didn't make your hatred of it so blindingly obvious. And if real life got in the way of your duties as AG you should have resigned.
 
There's a certain degree of irony in that UDL members are accusing those of us that support the recall of being anti-UDL.
 
I find it interesting that those who accuse anyone of being "anti-UDL" are almost inevitably UDL members themselves.

Sovreignry is an UDL Lieutenant, Cormac is the UDL's Press Secretary, Madjack, AKA St. George, is a highly decorated UDL member, and even Flem is a UDL merryman.

All of which are claiming that a recall against UDL Lieutenant Tim isn't because he did something that no Vice-Delegate in TNP history ever has and put TNP at risk in a time of uncertainty and transition, but rather because people are "anti-UDL".

I find this very interesting.
 
Oh look, here come the usual suspects. A crasher and a doesn'tknowwhatheiser, both known for being anti-UDL.
 
madjack:
Oh look, here come the usual suspects. A crasher and a doesn'tknowwhatheiser, both known for being anti-UDL.
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I'm anti UDL. So what? He abandoned his post, and that is unacceptable. I wouldn't care less if the person was UDL, FRA, TITO, TBH, LWU or any other group. He did abandon his post, that is indisputable, and it's unacceptable.
 
I said nothing about supporting or not supporting the recall. I just mentioned that if Abbey wasn't so obvious about he hatred of the UDL she might have a better time convincing people she's not anti-UDL.
 
Even if Abbey is anti-UDL and hates the UDL, it would not take away from the fact that Tim left his post as Vice Delegate to participate in a liberation.

That is the issue we need Tim to clear up. Wondering who's pro or anti-UDL makes little difference to me in this particular matter. The region's security is definitely the issue that is most pressing to people.
 
Jamie:
madjack:
Oh look, here come the usual suspects. A crasher and a doesn'tknowwhatheiser, both known for being anti-UDL.
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I'm anti UDL. So what? He abandoned his post, and that is unacceptable. I wouldn't care less if the person was UDL, FRA, TITO, TBH, LWU or any other group.
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Liar.
 
Flem is a UDL merryman.
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Do WHAT? I was a little involved in the UDL at the outset, helping Unibot sort out titles and suchlike. I have not been involved in the UDL for ages and ages. Attempts to paint me a as a UDL goon are pretty desperate, Blue Wolf.

I trust folks know me better than to think I have ANY divided loyalies. :fish:
 
Just as a note..

UDL members, me included, told Tim -not- to do this.

The point of this recall, I'd like to assume, is because Tim left his post to do something else in NS, which could be argued as putting TNP in danger.

The point of this is not a 'let's bash UDL' or, as I've now heard we've been called..call TNP UDLers "brainwashed t**ts".

Tim made his decision, but it was 100% his decision. Let's get this back on topic instead of "You're UDL!" "You're anti-UDL!" "Grawr!" "You're stupid, you're stupid!" "Aaah, namecalling!"

Jeez. Focus, guys. >.>
 
Earth:
Just as a note..

UDL members, me included, told Tim -not- to do this.

The point of this recall, I'd like to assume, is because Tim left his post to do something else in NS, which could be argued as putting TNP in danger.

The point of this is not a 'let's bash UDL' or, as I've now heard we've been called..call TNP UDLers "brainwashed t**ts".

Tim made his decision, but it was 100% his decision. Let's get this back on topic instead of "You're UDL!" "You're anti-UDL!" "Grawr!" "You're stupid, you're stupid!" "Aaah, namecalling!"

Jeez. Focus, guys. >.>
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And you can honestly give an unbiased opinion in this? Your post suggests not.
Also, so we don't have any accusations of hypocrisy, I hate the UDL as an organization, yes. My disgust is over Tim's resigning WA, I couldn't care less -why- he did it.
 
Jamie:
Earth:
Just as a note..

UDL members, me included, told Tim -not- to do this.

The point of this recall, I'd like to assume, is because Tim left his post to do something else in NS, which could be argued as putting TNP in danger.

The point of this is not a 'let's bash UDL' or, as I've now heard we've been called..call TNP UDLers "brainwashed t**ts".

Tim made his decision, but it was 100% his decision. Let's get this back on topic instead of "You're UDL!" "You're anti-UDL!" "Grawr!" "You're stupid, you're stupid!" "Aaah, namecalling!"

Jeez. Focus, guys. >.>
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And you can honestly give an unbiased opinion in this? Your post suggests not.
Also, so we don't have any accusations of hypocrisy, I hate the UDL as an organization, yes. My disgust is over Tim's resigning WA, I couldn't care less -why- he did it.
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Can we all just calm down please, this isn't the time for an arugument.
 
Earth:
Just as a note..

UDL members, me included, told Tim -not- to do this.

The point of this recall, I'd like to assume, is because Tim left his post to do something else in NS, which could be argued as putting TNP in danger.

The point of this is not a 'let's bash UDL' or, as I've now heard we've been called..call TNP UDLers "brainwashed t**ts".

Tim made his decision, but it was 100% his decision. Let's get this back on topic instead of "You're UDL!" "You're anti-UDL!" "Grawr!" "You're stupid, you're stupid!" "Aaah, namecalling!"

Jeez. Focus, guys. >.>
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This is what I've been trying to say. That's what my motion was trying to say. I couldn't care less what group Tim dropped WA for. He dropped it, which is bad for all the reasons I've already said. And...I give up. I apologised for that comment, not that anybody gives a damn.
 
Jamie:
And you can honestly give an unbiased opinion in this? Your post suggests not.
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Indeed. I mean, she must not be able to have an unbiased opinion, being a mindless, brainwashed twat.

Madjack has had his warn level increased for this post. Others should take note. Flemingovia
 
Jamie:
madjack:
Oh look, here come the usual suspects. A crasher and a doesn'tknowwhatheiser, both known for being anti-UDL.
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I'm anti UDL. So what? He abandoned his post, and that is unacceptable. I wouldn't care less if the person was UDL, FRA, TITO, TBH, LWU or any other group. He did abandon his post, that is indisputable, and it's unacceptable.
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"I'm extremely anti-UDL."

"Why are UDLers defending themselves? BIAS"
 
The real question has nothing to do with UDL, despite my previous musing. To pretend otherwise would be disingenuous.

The real question is this: Did Tim dropping his WA benefit TNP? Yes or no, and with explanation.
 
Jamie:
Earth:
Just as a note..

UDL members, me included, told Tim -not- to do this.

The point of this recall, I'd like to assume, is because Tim left his post to do something else in NS, which could be argued as putting TNP in danger.

The point of this is not a 'let's bash UDL' or, as I've now heard we've been called..call TNP UDLers "brainwashed t**ts".

Tim made his decision, but it was 100% his decision. Let's get this back on topic instead of "You're UDL!" "You're anti-UDL!" "Grawr!" "You're stupid, you're stupid!" "Aaah, namecalling!"

Jeez. Focus, guys. >.>
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And you can honestly give an unbiased opinion in this? Your post suggests not.
Also, so we don't have any accusations of hypocrisy, I hate the UDL as an organization, yes. My disgust is over Tim's resigning WA, I couldn't care less -why- he did it.
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I suggest you reread my post. I was suggesting people -stop- with the namecalling and accusing everyone on -both- sides of "UDL! Anti-UDL" bias or whatever.

If you hate the UDL, I suggest that you have the bias here.

Let me just quote what I just said in another thread..
I don't think it's right that a Vice Delegate or anyone that has committed to a WA-required position to leave their region for -any- reason besides real life ones or after their own resignations. I think it was irresponsible and reckless.
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So..if I'm UDL biased, what does that make the UDL bias, then? I'm a little confused about what you're implying there. Not to mention, I haven't seen UDLers say they're against this recall, maybe I missed one amongst the childish fighting, but it really just looks like people are getting jumped on just for posting in this thread... Yeesh.

And Abbey, apology accepted. I understand how people are getting heated in this situation. It does make me laugh how many personal insults I've fielded this week, though.

EDIT: You all ninja'd me. I very, very much agree with Blue Wolf in this situation. Can we please get back on that focus now?
 
Jamie:
Mahaj:
Jamie:
madjack:
Oh look, here come the usual suspects. A crasher and a doesn'tknowwhatheiser, both known for being anti-UDL.
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I'm anti UDL. So what? He abandoned his post, and that is unacceptable. I wouldn't care less if the person was UDL, FRA, TITO, TBH, LWU or any other group. He did abandon his post, that is indisputable, and it's unacceptable.
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"I'm extremely anti-UDL."

"Why are UDLers defending themselves? BIAS"
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You're defending Tim. Who quite coincidently happens to be UDL, I doubt many of you would make a deal about it if he wasn't UDL.
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So UDLers can't treat people the same regardless of affiliation but the oh so great and wise jamie can?

Or was I right and you actually were lying?
 
Could this debate, perhaps, be about the actions of Tim the person rather than about the UDL?

It has been established that the UDL did not request Tim's Help. Nor did he move as part of the NPA. Quite why he moved, only one person knows. Everything else is smoke and mirrors.

It does a disservice to Abbey to hijack this thread for extra-regional pissing contests. Stop it.

You can take that as a formal admin warning from an admin who is ready and happy to increase warning levels at this point, and damn the torpedos.
 
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