FOIA Request Re: Appointment of Deputies since August CO5 Election

We have never required ministers to justify their choices beforehand - and believe me, we have had some odd choices in the past. Generally speaking, deputies tend to fall into four classes:

1. The chancers, who ask to be deputy before anyone else does, and are appointed because the minister cannot think of anyone else.
2. the newbies, appointed to "blood" them with experience in government.
3. The Old hand, appointed to bring expertese or gravitas to the ministerial team.
4. The crony, appointed because they would work well with the minister.
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Amusing Flem but I don't think Unibot actually fits into any of those categories still.

KiwiTaicho, this is not the first time people have not made public their announcements without prompting. IRC is not the place to do it. The forum is.
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Doesn't mean you shouldn't be polite. People are more likely to take you seriously if you speak courteously.

Because there isn't anyone as experienced in WA affairs in the entire region? Having Unibot in the ministry is better than having him outside of it.
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Erm I'd rather have a complete no-nothing idiot than have Unibot do it. I'm pretty sure the majority of the WA affairs work falls to Mahaj anyway?
 
Kiwi:
Erm I'd rather have a complete no-nothing idiot than have Unibot do it.
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[me]waves a leg around.

This was your leg to stand on. You don't have it anymore.
 
I agree with Georgie and Madjack.

I have to say that the Deputy system would probably work better with getting new people involved if the Deputy was trained by the Minister, rather than oldies doing the work. Or perhaps have Juniors, under Deputies, for people to learn? *shrugs*

I guess it depends on on why we have deputies. If they are positions to fill to train, or just positions to share the burden of the work..
 
madjack:
Blue Wolf II:
No, they can still lie. It's actually not part of the oath that you have to tell the truth.
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Superb.
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Hey, a MoS who has to tell the truth if he's ever asked 'Where are the NPA WA's right now?' wouldn't be very useful now, would he? Lying =/= bad.
 
madjack:
Kiwi:
Erm I'd rather have a complete no-nothing idiot than have Unibot do it.
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madjack waves a leg around.

This was your leg to stand on. You don't have it anymore.
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Please keep this sort of spam to a minimum. You're contributing nothing to the conversation while taking jabs at me for no real reason. My reasons for not wanting Unibot to continue in this position are perfectly valid.

Kiwi, I would say that Unibot could fit 3 and 4.
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Oh? I don't think any of those classes include someone who was forced to resign because of misconduct.

At any rate, it doesn't matter now because Mahaj has made his decision and he doesn't really have to justify himself. Just something for the voters to consider next time which was my point to start with.

My congratulations to you Unibot nonetheless. Resigning so that you don't have to deal with the allegations or the possibility of a recall and then clawing your way up as a deputy. I wouldn't be surprised if you have the WA affairs ministry again sometime soon.
 
I wonder if you'd be opposed to me appointing someone who did not win in the election? After all, their not winning is clear indication that the public didn't want them to serve, so appointing them to the deputy position is going against the will of the people, just like resigning is a clear indication of guilt and makes someone unworthy of being appointed. I mean, right? Like, totally.

I'm unsurprised to see you continuing your attacks on Unibot. Now that he's resigned (which is what you wanted, no?) you still feel the need to hound him? Perhaps this is why you didn't win re-election. Perhaps the person who was rebuked was not Unibot, but you.

Anyway, you're right, I don't have to justify this. I could have just let this thread die. But you so clearly ended your post with an insult of my deputy, and I'm not going to just let that stand as the last word.
 
Since this FOI request was about information rather than justification, can we now assume that the discussion has run its course? Mahaj has absolute right to appoint anyone he wants as deputy, and he has done so.
 
Mahaj:
Now that he's resigned (which is what you wanted, no?) you still feel the need to hound him? Perhaps this is why you didn't win re-election. Perhaps the person who was rebuked was not Unibot, but you.
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Absolute crap, Unibot ran away from the election and from his ministry so that he no longer had to deal with the allegations against him. At least Kiwi had the guts to stand and fight for the election, I certainly admire him for that. Appointing an old crony to the position is however COMPLETELY OK according to the council of five directive. If you want to appoint your cronies to do your work, and will still create an undesirable working environment with the cabinet, that is your prerogative. It's more the attitude that you think its perfect that someone can still be heavily involved in the same ministry, despite previous allegations, followed by a resignation, causing an election, and all the other problems and aggression he brought to the cabinet room.

Earth:
I have to say that the Deputy system would probably work better with getting new people involved if the Deputy was trained by the Minister, rather than oldies doing the work.
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That was the general idea I believe.
 
As far as I can tell, the only remask still required is People's Empire as a deputy. Elected Co5 members need to have Eluvatar's approval before asking that their deputy have any normal mod functions in their area.

And some of the posts in this thread seem seriously off-topic, but I'll give Eluvatar a chance to address those if he wishes.
 
Mahaj:
I wonder if you'd be opposed to me appointing someone who did not win in the election? After all, their not winning is clear indication that the public didn't want them to serve, so appointing them to the deputy position is going against the will of the people, just like resigning is a clear indication of guilt and makes someone unworthy of being appointed. I mean, right? Like, totally.

I'm unsurprised to see you continuing your attacks on Unibot. Now that he's resigned (which is what you wanted, no?) you still feel the need to hound him? Perhaps this is why you didn't win re-election. Perhaps the person who was rebuked was not Unibot, but you.

Anyway, you're right, I don't have to justify this. I could have just let this thread die. But you so clearly ended your post with an insult of my deputy, and I'm not going to just let that stand as the last word.
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Firstly - considering some of the arbitrary voting which is done through members of the region who have no idea about any of the candidates, I doubt it has any real bearing on anything. So no. I think there's no real basis to what you're suggesting.

Secondly, I didn't ask for his resignation. I would have liked him to actually stand up and face his accusers. Everyone else facing a recall has done this. You will remember that I was the one who posted the logs relating to Romanoffia and he faced the accusations. My hat goes off to him. To the contrary of what many people think, I have a great deal of respect for Romanoffia. In recent Council of Five meetings before the election I went out of my way to keep him informed and involved in all matters above and beyond what I needed to. As well as that, there were several sessions including Romanoffia and myself where we discussed particular tactics etc. I have even voted for him for delegate!

I'll put this in bold and underlining so you actually read the point of my original post since people seem to have missed it.

I have pointed out that he should not have been appointed as a deputy Minister and I want the record to reflect this in future elections.

Feel free to use your discretion as you wish, just remember that come election time I will be asking tough questions.

One of the reasons I probably received less of the RA vote is because people actually know me. I want to make sure they actually know you and what decisions you have made. Your WA affairs summaries certainly haven't all been popular. I seriously doubt you have maintained the level of IRC activity I have or been around to approve NPA missions or other such matters like I have.

The only reason I have not posted some of the more choice comments from Unibot's cabinet days / other occasions is because they're protected by either a closed cabinet session or personal message policies. Had some of these comments and personal attacks been posted on the forums, there would have been warnings issued. End of story.

My apologies to the admins / mods as I realise this is offtopic but it clearly needed to be addressed.
 
My apologies to the admins / mods as I realise this is offtopic but it clearly needed to be addressed.
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No it didn't, and not by you. Despite two admins gently hinting that this thread be kept on topic you chose to put in your :2c:

If there is more to be said about deputy appointment, it is a matter for the delegate as Grosse said.

I will put it clearer. Keep on topic and lose the ad hominem stuff, or I will adminslap so hard your ears will be ringing until next update.

Capiche?
 
flemingovia:
My apologies to the admins / mods as I realise this is offtopic but it clearly needed to be addressed.
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No it didn't, and not by you. Despite two admins gently hinting that this thread be kept on topic you chose to put in your :2c:

If there is more to be said about deputy appointment, it is a matter for the delegate as Grosse said.

I will put it clearer. Keep on topic and lose the ad hominem stuff, or I will adminslap so hard your ears will be ringing until next update.

Capiche?
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I'm not seeing what is off-topic at all about addressing the appointment of deputies, if admin seeks to deprive citizens of their right to freedom of speech and expression then that would be an all new low.

Reading the topic title "Appointment of Deputies", I think it is pretty clear that this discussion is about the appointment of deputies. This surely is including their ability to do the job, and whether or not they should be in that position given their prior behaviour.

Simply saying if "there is more to be said about deputy appointment, it is a matter for the delegate" is complete and utter crap. The Delegate has input in this, but the public and other cabinet ministers are just as entitled to make their voices heard.
 
mcmasterdonia:
flemingovia:
My apologies to the admins / mods as I realise this is offtopic but it clearly needed to be addressed.
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No it didn't, and not by you. Despite two admins gently hinting that this thread be kept on topic you chose to put in your :2c:

If there is more to be said about deputy appointment, it is a matter for the delegate as Grosse said.

I will put it clearer. Keep on topic and lose the ad hominem stuff, or I will adminslap so hard your ears will be ringing until next update.

Capiche?
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I'm not seeing what is off-topic at all about addressing the appointment of deputies, if admin seeks to deprive citizens of their right to freedom of speech and expression then that would be an all new low.

Reading the topic title "Appointment of Deputies", I think it is pretty clear that this discussion is about the appointment of deputies. This surely is including their ability to do the job, and whether or not they should be in that position given their prior behaviour.

Simply saying if "there is more to be said about deputy appointment, it is a matter for the delegate" is complete and utter crap. The Delegate has input in this, but the public and other cabinet ministers are just as entitled to make their voices heard.
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The topic says: FOIA Request Re: Appointment of Deputies since August CO5 Election. Quite clearly it's a request for information on the appointment of deputies.

It is not a general 'lets criticise the appointment of deputies because I don't like x person'.
 
madjack:
mcmasterdonia:
flemingovia:
My apologies to the admins / mods as I realise this is offtopic but it clearly needed to be addressed.
Click to expand...
No it didn't, and not by you. Despite two admins gently hinting that this thread be kept on topic you chose to put in your :2c:

If there is more to be said about deputy appointment, it is a matter for the delegate as Grosse said.

I will put it clearer. Keep on topic and lose the ad hominem stuff, or I will adminslap so hard your ears will be ringing until next update.

Capiche?
Click to expand...
I'm not seeing what is off-topic at all about addressing the appointment of deputies, if admin seeks to deprive citizens of their right to freedom of speech and expression then that would be an all new low.

Reading the topic title "Appointment of Deputies", I think it is pretty clear that this discussion is about the appointment of deputies. This surely is including their ability to do the job, and whether or not they should be in that position given their prior behaviour.

Simply saying if "there is more to be said about deputy appointment, it is a matter for the delegate" is complete and utter crap. The Delegate has input in this, but the public and other cabinet ministers are just as entitled to make their voices heard.
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The topic says: FOIA Request Re: Appointment of Deputies since August CO5 Election. Quite clearly it's a request for information on the appointment of deputies.

It is not a general 'lets criticise the appointment of deputies because I don't like x person'.
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So we should start an entirely new thread on every matter that is slightly different from the intent of the opening post? I must say, I can imagine we would have several threads being opened for each individual discussion.

All things discussed in this thread are related to the appointment of deputies. If I had gone on a tangent speaking about issues entirely irrelevant to that matter, then I would understand. The fact that nobody on this thread is discussing things that are entirely irrelevant to the appointment of deputies, seems to tell me that they are not off topic.
 
You want to have a moan about Uni, and sieze the first chance you get. I get that. It is your little Govindesque moment.

But this thread was a FOI request asking a specific question - who has been appointed as a deputy minister. Beyond that it is a threadajck, however much you want to have a moment.
 
I was not having a moment, merely disagreeing with you that the comments in question were off topic. The topic moved onto the quality of the appointments when members expressed shock at who was chosen to serve in that capacity. You simply chose to speak to Kiwi in a manner that was unbecoming of an admin. If it had gone of topic, it should have been raised much earlier, not out of spite towards the individual commenting.
 
As the author of this thread, I do not think anyone was going off-topic, except for BW's humour at the very end. Stay classy BW <3

Also Grosse, people's empire has not posted his oath as a deputy .
 
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