The Oligarchy

Eluvatar:
Blue Wolf II:
When said group says "you can't see what we do in here! We're not the government, we just tell them what to do!" yeah...there's a problem there.
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:fish:

Really, "we just tell them what to do," that's what you're going to go with?
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According to your own words, you didn't think the group was non-governmental...until that group told you they were non-governmental and you believed them and reported their word as fact. It's the entire justification behind the FOI request that would have made their forums public being denied.

There is plenty of evidence to prove the existence of this group and their belief that they are outside the laws of TNP.
 
As you well know there are other reasons why it may not have been published, reasons that I would have been more comfortable with, myself.

But to say that flem and Grosse tell me what to do is wrong. The reason I poked fun at your sentence is that it strongly implies that this group controls everything the government does, which is simply absurd. You point to the group's role in self-identification, but there is literally no other instruction it has given of any kind to any one at any point.

That a group of people discussed your plans is not being denied. To say it is "outside the laws" though implies that it's somehow above the laws, and no one is claiming that this group is in any way immune to TNP criminal law, except perhaps you :P

antidisestablishmentarianism
 
I am pleased that Eluvatar has become an advocate of antidisestablishmentarianism, since it means opposition to the separation of church and state- that particularly American blasphemy.

I would point out, however, that antidisestablishmentarianistic is a longer word.
 
Eluvatar:
That a group of people discussed your plans is not being denied. To say it is "outside the laws" though implies that it's somehow above the laws, and no one is claiming that this group is in any way immune to TNP criminal law, except perhaps you :P
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Yeah it's only BW claiming that... And the Court, and, well, almost everybody in this thread apart from you...? In fact, it's kind of the whole reason we're all having this argument.
 
Haor Chall:
Eluvatar:
That a group of people discussed your plans is not being denied. To say it is "outside the laws" though implies that it's somehow above the laws, and no one is claiming that this group is in any way immune to TNP criminal law, except perhaps you :P
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Yeah it's only BW claiming that... And the Court, and, well, almost everybody in this thread apart from you...? In fact, it's kind of the whole reason we're all having this argument.
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So... what crime is okay for this group to perform, according to you?
 
Dodging FOI requests, unauthorized releases of information, gathering intelligence for purposes other than official government business, impersonation, and general abuses of power.
 
OK, I'm putting my foot down. I wasn't going to say this but the use of the term "oligarchy" in the context BW is using it is incorrect. The proper word should be concilliabule.

And, by the way, this thread is beginning to resemble a borborygmus and has become a hippopotomonstrosesquipedalian display reducing the whole subject to an act of floccinaucinihilipilification. :P
 
concilliabule:
A secret meeting of people who are hatching a plot.

Oligarchy:
A small group of people having control of a country, organization, or institution.

I suppose you have a point but its basically arguing over semantics, both are quite bad, no matter what you want to call it.
 
Eluvatar:
Haor Chall:
Eluvatar:
That a group of people discussed your plans is not being denied. To say it is "outside the laws" though implies that it's somehow above the laws, and no one is claiming that this group is in any way immune to TNP criminal law, except perhaps you :P
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Yeah it's only BW claiming that... And the Court, and, well, almost everybody in this thread apart from you...? In fact, it's kind of the whole reason we're all having this argument.
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So... what crime is okay for this group to perform, according to you?
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Well, according to me, none. But that doesn't appear to be the reality of the situation, which is what I was stating.

Try harder next time.
 
Blue Wolf II:
Dodging FOI requests, unauthorized releases of information, gathering intelligence for purposes other than official government business, impersonation, and general abuses of power.
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1. The Freedom of Information Act is firstly not part of the Criminal code, but secondly as I just hinted there are couple good reasons why under that act materials belonging to the group could be exempted, even if it were (as I had personally thought) a commission within the government, and one which the FOIA applied to:
Law:
17. The Delegate and the designated officers of the Executive will endeavour to retrieve information requested from the different departments of the government, who are obligated to release this information provided it will not and/or does not present a threat to regional security or unduly impinge on the privacy of private citizens, and
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An interesting detail as well is that the Security Council is not part of the Executive branch and the FOIA applies to the Executive alone, as supported by this ruling and this statement, so if the group were to be a committee under the authority of the Security Council, it would not be part of the Executive branch which is the subject of the Freedom of Information Act.
2. The information you are complaining about was published by myself, the Delegate.
3. Hint to Espionage all you like but the law specifies that "The information gathered must be of a nature that a person that has not registered on the official forums or attained public office would be unable to access it without cracking technical security measures." and your plottings on IRC do not fit that at all, for you spoke to Hileville not because of any public office he held at that time in TNP (he didn't) but because he was the leader of the South Pacific. Besides, I think it's pretty clear that the law against Espionage is intended to prohibit people taking TNP secrets and bringing them back to outside entities. As you well know, if the information gathered had been on our official forums you would quite likely have been tried for Sedition under the old law for you would no longer be covered by that old law's loophole.
4. I have not seen any kind of reasonable explanation for your ridiculous claim of "Impersonation." I think you claimed that I claimed to Hileville to be gathering information for the Security Council when, you said, I was gathering it for others but firstly that can't change the fact that I was indeed a Security Council member or that the entire Security Council had access to that area so the information so gathered was indeed made available to the Security Coucil.
5. "general abuses of power" yeah reaaal specific there. :fish:

Haor Chall:
Well, according to me, none. But that doesn't appear to be the reality of the situation, which is what I was stating.

Try harder next time.
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What act do you believe would be criminal but would not be punished if a member of the group in question did it?
 
Eluvatar:
Haor Chall:
Well, according to me, none. But that doesn't appear to be the reality of the situation, which is what I was stating.

Try harder next time.
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What act do you believe would be criminal but would not be punished if a member of the group in question did it?
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Really...? :duh:

Criminal acts are defined in the law, not by me. So any of the criminal acts which are in TNP law, which this Star Chamber engaged in (if it has done, or does do so), it would most likely get away with. And it would get away with it because the information would be hidden away and those involved would obstruct any attempt to bring it to light.

Like, uh, what would appear to have happened, right?
 
mcmasterdonia:
1237130851_polar-bear-attack.gif
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Poor bear..he just only wanted to greet the new friend :P

Btw, nice to see that you're not bored, guys ;)
 
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