The Oligarchy

Great Bights Mum

Grande Dame
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I have had it up to my patootie with all the finger pointing at The Oligarchy. You know, the RA isn't all that big. I think it's high time we compiled a list of who's in and who's out. Then when folks blame it on "The Oligarchy" we can all know exactly who they're talking about. Because, frankly I'm not sure. Am I an oligarch? Are you? Is Elu? Schnauzers? Anyone else from the SC? Council of 5? Mod team? Let's have it. I've just got to find out who's hot and who's not. Inquiring minds want to know.
 
The Oligarchy consists of everyone people disagree with or deemed insufficiently radical, far as I can tell.
 
peoples empire:
Eluvatar:
Who are the SC oligarchy, in your book?
I am not going to point fingers and name names as the Question itself is designed to be Divisive, and this issue is bigger than S.C. Members themselves.

#tnp:
21:23 <+Romanoffia> The Oligarchy is any group of people that isn't oneself. :p
21:23 <@Eluvatar> Romanoffia: may I quote you on that?
21:23 <+Romanoffia> Of course.
 
oligarchy.jpg
 
Great Bights Mum:
I have had it up to my patootie with all the finger pointing at The Oligarchy. You know, the RA isn't all that big. I think it's high time we compiled a list of who's in and who's out. Then when folks blame it on "The Oligarchy" we can all know exactly who they're talking about. Because, frankly I'm not sure. Am I an oligarch? Are you? Is Elu? Schnauzers? Anyone else from the SC? Council of 5? Mod team? Let's have it. I've just got to find out who's hot and who's not. Inquiring minds want to know.
Well, as the person who (I think) introduced the phrase into TNP, I suppose I ought to answer.

The Oligarchy, as I use it, refers to those who "can be trusted" - specifically, can be trusted by Grosseschnauzer and (especially) Eluvatar.

This is not synonymous with the security Council, since it does not depend on in-game influence. It does depend on trustworthiness an reliability. Thus ROman might once have been considered part of the Oligarchy, but he is not any more. To use a British phrase, he is no longer "one of us."

How do you know if you are part of the Oligarchy? If you have been invited to, or can see, some of the more private parts of the forum - you are in. I am absolutely not going to say any more about that, since I would certainly lose my admin mask if I were to do so.
 
But what great authority does the alleged Oligarchy hold in our everyday political sphere that "normal" players don't have? Or are we emphasizing the existence of this "group" to divide our region for purely power politics reasons?

I understand the alleged Oligarchy could overrule a Rogue Delegate, but we don't really seem to be in such desperate times, Flem. Nor, do I see how anyone of us is politically disadvantaged less than the members of this alleged Oligarchy whose political capital has been bleeding on the floor with this whole "We are the 99%" movement. Seems to me, you or me can get away with a lot "more" in the region than Grosse, whose every move is criticized and turned into a circus.
 
The thing about an Oligarchy is it doesn't need to have any power in terms of more say in a government to be effective. It draws its power from groupthink.
 
Eluvatar:
peoples empire:
Eluvatar:
Who are the SC oligarchy, in your book?
I am not going to point fingers and name names as the Question itself is designed to be Divisive, and this issue is bigger than S.C. Members themselves.

#tnp:
21:23 <+Romanoffia> The Oligarchy is any group of people that isn't oneself. :p
21:23 <@Eluvatar> Romanoffia: may I quote you on that?
21:23 <+Romanoffia> Of course.
I invite every body to read my statements that are not taken out of context by our friendly nonpartisan delegate :blink:

Also I am peoples empire not Romanoffia :hello:
 
I... never said you were Romanoffia? The two separate quotes of responses to the question are, well, separate.

And how is my quote out of context, exactly? After that sentence you moved on in your response to a general argument about the Security Council. My point was that you refused to name any names, and that was what I was quoting you for. You don't name any names in your post.
 
Todd McCloud:
The thing about an Oligarchy is it doesn't need to have any power in terms of more say in a government to be effective. It draws its power from groupthink.
:agree:

An Oligarchy does not work in terms of "authority". Nor does it work within codified laws and rules. Rather, it works behind the scenes.

Things are considered, discussed and sorted out.
 
The West Pacific had a similar group which could be considered an "Oligarchy", they were called The Core. The Core later went on to Coup the region a few times and took over The East Pacific as well under the name "The Empire".

If anything, TWP proves that the concept of a shadowy group of players striving to bend the region to their will isn't outside the norm and could even be considered a standard operating practice.
 
Todd McCloud:
The thing about an Oligarchy is it doesn't need to have any power in terms of more say in a government to be effective. It draws its power from groupthink.
Interesting analysis. Reminds me of the theory of 'Spontaneous Order'.

Essentially, Spontaneous Order is the phenomenon illustrated by a roller skating rink. If you put 100 people on roller skates in a skating rink and let them do what they want to do, eventually they will all be going in circles in the same direction. This is what happens when you have any group of people in a 'closed' environment.

ol·i·gar·chy - noun, plural ol·i·gar·chies.

1. a form of government in which all power is vested in a few persons or in a dominant class or clique; government by the few.
2. a state or organization so ruled.
3. the persons or class so ruling.

One of the items that is not on the list of definitions is oligarchies, per se, have 'limited access' as to who is in the ranks based upon a collective attitude pertaining to the requirements for membership in the oligarchy.

Taken to an extreme, you get this (according to George Orwell):

300px-1984_Social_Classes_alt.svg.png


Again, spontaneous order that always occurs in which the many are governed by the few. This happens no matter what the system is mainly because the majority of people are either unwilling to participate and those that do must pass a 'gate keeping' process controlled by a ruling oligarchy.

The irony is, that no matter how plebian or democratic a system is, only about a marginal 10% participate at any given time no matter how you try to cut the cards. People have tried to change that but the imposed changes seem to conflict with human nature. And since human nature is not a variable, the proponents of any given system (oligarchical or democratic) see human nature as the defect and not their ideological systems as the real defect.

When oligarchies get dangerous (and they often do so without any intent or knowledge that they are doing so) you get the "War is Peace, Freedom is Slaver, Ignorance is Truth' effect.

War is Peace - conflict is good for promoting internal stability. It's the old 'common enemy' practice. You pick a common enemy (and individual or class of individuals) to focus upon and spontaneous order will follow in that direction. Bread and circuses.

Freedom is Slavery - convincing people that they are better off with other people doing the thinking for them so they are 'free' to not worry or make decisions as long as they comply and if they don't, they are dissuaded from non-compliance for fear of being relegated to the 'common enemy' class and duly targeted as such.

Ignorance is Truth - Ignorance doesn't imply stupidity. Ignorance is a state in which people 'ignore' the obvious and choose not to deal with it. The truth is that for the most part, if you don't think about something that is bad, and it doesn't really affect you or cause you harm, and it benefits you to be 'ignorant', then ignoring the obvious is beneficial and falling in line with the 'party' is even more beneficial. The problem is that (as Ayn Rand put it) "You can ignore reality, but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.” But as long as those consequences are tolerable, 90% of the people will ignore reality and follow the old dictum that "I refute your reality and therefore in its place I substitute my own."

The truth is, that no matter what system you create, impose or find yourself in, there will always be an oligarchy running it. It doesn't matter if its a dictatorship or a pure democracy. What matters is what the 'masses' perceive as 'reality'. You can be just as free in a total dictatorship as you can in a pure democracy, but that is all depending upon where in the pyramid you happen to be. In any system, bucking the system and moving from one class to another is discouraged if the system is truly oligarchical by nature.

Another irony is (a little economic dictum of my own creation) that no matter what system of economics you seek to impose the forces of the 'free marked' will always prevail in the end. This is true in political systems.

Put in the context of The North Pacific, we have always done best when fending off or removing a usuper, rogue or invader or when people get lethargic and nothing dramatic is ocuring. And, ironically, when apathy and inactivity assert their inherent stability and status quo, that's when the rouges, usurpers and invaders tend to try to barge in and widdle in the soup. Every system tends to walk a line between total order and total chaos and that line is more or less wide according to how tolerant a given population is of various species of shenanigans.

One of the problems, or rather best points of TNP is that we are a highly tolerant lot of gits who, despite our inherent paranoia, tend to be a trusting and experimental lot of gits. This collection of people, like minded even though (at the same time) poles apart in opinion in the extreme at times is the result of the spontaneous order that makes The North Pacific exactly what it is. And our innate understanding of this is why we are all in The North Pacific.

Think about it. :D
 
Todd McCloud:
The thing about an Oligarchy is it doesn't need to have any power in terms of more say in a government to be effective. It draws its power from groupthink.
You could say the same about the anti-oligarchy factions. I have never seen any evidence of any sort of oligarchy of the scale and degree of organization and malice which is typically alleged. Indeed, as what Elu quoted and this thread itself point out, there isn't even any agreement on just who is part of it. And yet those allegations that there must be something unsavory going on chug along undaunted simply because enough people keep repeating them.

Also, if we go by what's been suggested in this thread so far, I'm apparently an oligarch. I'm not sure how I should feel about that.
 
At it's most extreme, the Oligarchy may not even be aware that it is the Oligarchy. Back when I was Delegate of TSP, for example, there were frequent allegations that I was the front man for a UDL take over of the region. In retrospect, I think there may have been a bit of unintentional truth in this (in that we were generally speaking likely to take actions that were pro-UDL/Defender) even though no one involved was consciously trying to take over TSP for UDL.
 
not sure if we have Oligarchy in TNP or whether i am part of It.
but i a sensing we have a lot of Paranoia.

Paranoia [?pær??n??.?] (adjective: paranoid [?pær?.n??d]) is a thought process believed to be heavily influenced by anxiety or fear, often to the point of irrationality and delusion. Paranoid thinking typically includes persecutory beliefs, or beliefs of conspiracy concerning a perceived threat towards oneself. (e.g. "Everyone is out to get me.") Making false accusations and the general distrust of others also frequently accompany paranoia. For example, an incident most people would view as an accident or coincidence, a paranoid person might believe was intentional. However, just because an individual is paranoid does not necessarily mean his or her suspicions are false, as noted in Catch-22: "Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you."

Historically, this characterization was used to describe any delusional state. In modern colloquial use, the term "paranoia" is sometimes misused to describe a phobia. The general lack of blame in phobia disorders sharply differentiates the two. In other words, fearing that something bad or harmful might happen does not in itself imply paranoia. Rather, with paranoia there is an irrational fear of malice by others (excepting rare cases of schizophrenia).
 
In the spirit of having a little fun with this topic -

Not all ologarchies are bad and some of them generally do not even have governmental powers but may have influence.

Normally we have an 'oligarchy' of active nations in TNP that are for all intents and purposes, always there.

Democracy in TNP has always been a oligarchy of those nations that choose to participate (which is true of any democracy or system).

All governments and organizations are oligarchies by nature and design and cannot be otherwise.

There are oligarchies within oligarchies. Even anarchists are an oligarchy.

When oligarchies go bad they usually do so by applying exclusivity usually based upon self service and self preservation even if it is not rational. Negative oligarchies tend to be a function of 'group think' that excludes even the possibility that they might be incorrect about something.
 
Pasargad:
not sure if we have Oligarchy in TNP or whether i am part of It.
but i a sensing we have a lot of Paranoia.

Paranoia [?pær??n??.?] (adjective: paranoid [?pær?.n??d]) is a thought process believed to be heavily influenced by anxiety or fear, often to the point of irrationality and delusion. Paranoid thinking typically includes persecutory beliefs, or beliefs of conspiracy concerning a perceived threat towards oneself. (e.g. "Everyone is out to get me.") Making false accusations and the general distrust of others also frequently accompany paranoia. For example, an incident most people would view as an accident or coincidence, a paranoid person might believe was intentional. However, just because an individual is paranoid does not necessarily mean his or her suspicions are false, as noted in Catch-22: "Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you."

Historically, this characterization was used to describe any delusional state. In modern colloquial use, the term "paranoia" is sometimes misused to describe a phobia. The general lack of blame in phobia disorders sharply differentiates the two. In other words, fearing that something bad or harmful might happen does not in itself imply paranoia. Rather, with paranoia there is an irrational fear of malice by others (excepting rare cases of schizophrenia).
calling it paranoia is also a good way of steering people away from delving further in to a subject. this tactic is also usually used to stop the truth from being reveled and widely accepted. :)
 
Oriole Electronics:
I'm starting my own Oligarchy if anyone is interested ;)
I've already started my own oligarchy. I call it the The Cheese Oligarchy.

The Cheese Oligarchy is just me and vast quantities of cheeses of all variety that I have hidden in a subterranean vault in my secret command center on a remote and undiscovered island somewhere in The North Pacific. Right now, my Danish cheese making drones are working on a batch of Stinking Bishop that will also serve a missile shield to protect the region from purveyors of Brie and other wimpy varieties of fermented dairy comestibles. :P
 
[humor-sarcasm - not to be taken serously]

However, the Cheese Oligarchy disavows any connection with or does not condone the action of the Uni-Cheeser (the unknown terrorist who has been mailing large chunks of extremely fragrant varieties of cheese to government officials and university professors in spring loaded containers that facilitate said chunks of cheese to be propelled with great force into the faces of the victims).

*Romanoffia opens gift rapped box addressed to him.....PFWOINGSPAT! Damn it. Stilton. I've been Uni-Cheesed! :cheese: *


[/humor-sarcasm - not to be taken serously]

But this Oligarchy thingy isn't really a 99% thing. It's more of a 40/60 split. It's worse than a movement, it's a perception resulting from certain perceived practices. And perceptions relating to Oligarchies that may or may not exist are more dangerous than actual movements because perceptions lead to movements that are more often than not misinformed.
 
will it also can equally be said that some times People become frightened when a truth is about to be reveled or widely accepted. They fear greatly being aligned with an unpopular fact. so they mask truth in humor in order to discredit it and to assimilate in the status Que believe system of the day. This also helps one to return to comfort zone were every thing is in its place, so to speak. This has been done before, and I suppose it well be done again.
 
I remember the good old days when the only thing that make North Pacificans paranoid was a pirate flag. Arrrgh!
 
peoples empire:
will it also can equally be said that some times People become frightened when a truth is about to be reveled or widely accepted. They fear greatly being aligned with an unpopular fact. so they mask truth in humor in order to discredit it and to assimilate in the status Que believe system of the day. This also helps one to return to comfort zone were every thing is in its place, so to speak. This has been done before, and I suppose it well be done again.
:)
 
Oligarchy in the NS sense seems to be a relative term.

For instance, every member of TNP's government is part of an oligarchy when placed in context of the thousands of nations within TNP. The government established here is small relative to the people who make up the game. What I have found fascinating is that there never has been a feeder uprising of nations who are not part of the offsite forum. The game doesn't have an efficient enough communication system, imo, for a populist uprising but I've always been surprised that no non-forum native has ever tried it.

Within the offsite governments there are also smaller groups that control things. It's the nature of government and some have used examples to illustrate the point. Oligarchies are natural, imo, and rise from necessity to bring order out of chaos. And in most feeders, a nation can earn their way into the oligarchy through their own consistent effort and skill set.
 
Also, one of the functions of oligarchies in general can be summed up by this Orwell quote from 1984 in the chapter "War is Peace":

"It is a deliberate policy to keep even the favoured groups somewhere near the brink of hardship, because a general state of scarcity increases the importance of small privileges and thus magnifies the distinction between one group and another."

In peace times, oligarchies do this with 'power' and 'control', only those who are let into the 'oligarchy' are rarely ever let into the 'inner circle' of the oligarchy.

Thus, by creating a 'scarcity' of power and how it is distributed, an oligarchy can give the illusion that it is sharing power when in fact, it isn't sharing power. In that situations, a general sense of paranoia and denial of objective reality becomes the norm, and objective reality is only cited when it is useful to do so, and then shoved back into oblivion when objective reality and truth become inconvenient. In either situation, the truth, as it were, as Orwell notes, the truth and the very act of telling it (or even thinking it) becomes a revolutionary act.
 
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