- TNP Nation
- McMasterdonia
While this is not specifically a Cabinet matter. I felt I should post this here, so that we may discuss how best to deal with this. While disappointing it appears that we will not be able to charge Blue Wolf, with what he is without doubt guilty of.
This brings an interesting thought to the forefront of my mind. Can we ever trust someone such as he, who has most clearly violated the oath he has taken. Although he was the Delegate who ordered the refounding of the NPA, I feel now, that I should consider removing him from his position in the NPA. I seek the councils advice.
Delegate's note: This was shortly before this happened. Other intelligence exists, but does not do more than corroborate this intelligence. This intelligence is, however, quite well confirmed. This and other intelligence does suggest that Blue Wolf II was "in" on this of course. A number of nations were observed residing in TNP which were clearly invader puppets, which were endorsing Blue Wolf II. The exact number is difficult to quantify, but it was on the order of 10 (as opposed to 1 or 100). I have reason to believe that many of these were not from Exshaw, but from other groups such as The Black Hawks.
Analysis at the time lead me to believe that Blue Wolf intended to put up the linked flag on April 1st and pretend to pretend to coup, and then declare on April 2nd that ha ha joke's on you, the coup's serious after all.
I suspect that proving any criminal act by Blue Wolf would be exceedingly difficult as under the law at the time, Sedition was explicitly defined to only include activities onsite and on the official forum (this one). Treason of course is defined as actual acts, and I believe the precedent of TNP v. Blue Wolf II is that planning to commit treason was not itself Treason. (Under the new Legal Code, passed months later, I expect this would be illegal in three ways; it would be Sedition, and it would be conspiracy to commit Treason and Sedition).
NB: Any moderator is free to relocate this discussion if they feel my best guess as to where to put this was wrong. Please do not situate it in the Private Halls however, I do think this should be visible to our residents who are not (yet) in the RA.
This brings an interesting thought to the forefront of my mind. Can we ever trust someone such as he, who has most clearly violated the oath he has taken. Although he was the Delegate who ordered the refounding of the NPA, I feel now, that I should consider removing him from his position in the NPA. I seek the councils advice.
Hileville:Here are the full logs from the conversation with BW:
Session Start (IRC Esper.net:Blue_Wolf): Thu Mar 29 22:51:32 2012 -0400
[22:51] <Blue_Wolf> hileville!
[22:51] <Blue_Wolf> Hail!
[22:51] <Hileville> Hi
[22:51] <Blue_Wolf> How are you dearest?
[22:52] <Hileville> Good. how are you?
[22:52] <Blue_Wolf> Oh good
[22:52] <Blue_Wolf> Have you been following TNP as of late? Since you joined the Progressive Party, I am going to say "yes"
[22:53] <Hileville> I have.
[22:53] <Blue_Wolf> Thoughts?
[22:54] <Hileville> It is a mess
[22:55] <Blue_Wolf> I would have to agree with you
[22:55] <Blue_Wolf> How would you propose fixing it?
[22:56] <Hileville> I think there needs to be serious reform done to the Constitution.
[22:56] <Blue_Wolf> Do you think such a motion could ever be passed in this environment?
[22:57] <Hileville> It is possible
[22:58] <Blue_Wolf> Heh, what would you say to a delegate that tried a more forceful, yet tactful approach to the problem?
[22:59] <Hileville> It depends on what the approach is
[23:00] <Hileville> I think a Delegate can force changes to be made to the laws
[23:02] <Blue_Wolf> How about a delegate that threw away a broken system entirely, would you approve of that, depending on how it was done? Started anew? Held a Constitutional Convention immediately?
[23:03] <Hileville> Yeah depending on how it was done.
[23:04] <Blue_Wolf> Bloodless as possible?
[23:05] <Hileville> That would be best yes.
[23:05] <Blue_Wolf> With a large amount of support from our brother and sister Feeders and Sinkers?
[23:07] <Blue_Wolf> I think you can see what I am getting at here
[23:08] <Hileville> Yes I do.
[23:08] <Hileville> TSP might support such a thing.
[23:09] <Blue_Wolf> Very good, its highly likely TEP might support such a thing, enthusiastically, even, and Pacifica as well, although not as enthusiastically and with an air of pessimism.
[23:10] <Blue_Wolf> Those would be the three regions that make up MPA, if I am not mistaken.
[23:11] <Hileville> Yes it would
[23:11] <Blue_Wolf> I think that sort of support would add a sense of legitimacy to any such effort.
[23:12] <Hileville> It would
[23:14] <Blue_Wolf> My concern is that TNP has seen this sort of thing attempted before, actually more than any other feeder in NS history. All have failed, however, all have been aggressive, acted without the support of their fellow feeders, and enforced a government upon TNP rather than step aside and let the people pick their government while they, the delegate, watched over.
[23:15] <Blue_Wolf> Would you agree, Hile?
[23:15] <Hileville> Yes
[23:16] <Blue_Wolf> Very good. Now lets throw aside the secrecy and get right down to it, I think you can agree to that, eh?
[23:16] <Hileville> Yes
[23:18] <Blue_Wolf> TNP is jacked up and it needs to change. We've had the same Constitution since 2005, with only some minor changes (e.g. we got rid of our military) in 2007. Everyone keeps bitching about how horrible our government is and how much they're going to change it, but nothing ever gets done.
[23:19] <Hileville> I agree
[23:19] <Blue_Wolf> This isn't some rash decision on my part, I've literally waited years and tried a few changes of my own with no results, someone needs to take the bull by the horns and force change but so far no one has really be successful at doing just that.
[23:20] <Hileville> I understand
[23:21] <Blue_Wolf> A Constitutional Convention is a good idea, and I appreciate Elu's efforts in that area, but I don't think the changes are radical enough and I don't think it will pass, or rather I don't think there is enough chance of success for me to be satisfied.
[23:22] <Hileville> I would agree that a Convention is the best way to make major changes
[23:22] <Hileville> I have only briefly reviewed Elu's proposal so I can't say much for that
[23:23] <Blue_Wolf> A sort of bloodless uprising will force the issue to the table, making us select a new government and do so without having to worry about being stonewalled by a small core of people who detest all change to the region.
[23:23] <Blue_Wolf> Which has long been the problem with prior attempts at change.
[23:23] <Hileville> I can see that
[23:25] <Blue_Wolf> Then we're more or less on the same page. Todd supports this idea with a high amount of enthusiasm, Krull is a bit more reserved and has feelings of apathy. He's not sure its possible.
[23:26] <Blue_Wolf> However, AMOM is highly supportive of the idea and welcome the change.
[23:26] <Hileville> I would imagine he would
[23:27] <Blue_Wolf> And that's basically the overview of the MPA vote, I don't know anything about Stateless, but Todd appointed him and Todd's on board 100%
[23:28] <Hileville> You would have the majority in support yes
[23:28] <Blue_Wolf> Indeed I would.
[23:29] <Blue_Wolf> The sinkers are questionable, Wham supports it but he'll have a hard time selling it to TRR, Lazarus I have always had good personal relations with, Balder more or less follows TNI & Euro, so I have been told, and Earth is taking a "wait and see" approach
[23:30] <Hileville> That sounds about right
[23:31] <Blue_Wolf> TNP itself is a complete mystery. I have no idea how people will side for the most part and no way of knowing unless we commit. I'd imagine that feeder governments recognizing the legitimacy of the Provisional Government and the ConCon will help sway those stuck on the fence, however.
[23:32] <Hileville> I would agree 100% with that statement
[23:33] <Blue_Wolf> Well then, if you're on board, we have every feeder outside of TNP on our side expect TWP, whom I have not approached as of yet.
[23:34] <Blue_Wolf> *except
[23:35] <Hileville> You have my support.
[23:35] <Blue_Wolf> Very good, any questions?
[23:35] <Hileville> Nope
[23:37] <Blue_Wolf> Wicked. We have a plan in place, it will be in motion by the end of the week,
[23:37] <Hileville> Okay
[23:40] <Blue_Wolf> As a heads up, TNI and Euro have also been approached and are non-committal.
[23:40] <Hileville> Okay
[23:41] <Blue_Wolf> It seems TNI's involvement in TRR and the resulting embassy closure in The Pacific have put both regions off. They feel that if there were to take sides in TNP, they alliance they have worked so hard on in TSP would crumble.
[23:42] <Hileville> Really? That is weird for them to think that. Although Uni will flip
[23:44] <Blue_Wolf> That's been pointed out, and I have a plan for that.
[23:45] <Hileville> What kind of plan?
[23:46] <Blue_Wolf> The kind of plan that will make them look like the aggressors if they attack us.
[23:46] <Hileville> Okay.
[23:47] <Blue_Wolf> When you see this image as the regional flag, you'll know we have started the plan.
[23:47] <Blue_Wolf> (Link: http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images.../images/original/000/041/763/roflbot-ZfY6.jpg
[23:47] <Blue_Wolf> It will only be up for one day, after that, look for posts on MPA and your own forums.
[23:48] <Hileville> Okay
Delegate's note: This was shortly before this happened. Other intelligence exists, but does not do more than corroborate this intelligence. This intelligence is, however, quite well confirmed. This and other intelligence does suggest that Blue Wolf II was "in" on this of course. A number of nations were observed residing in TNP which were clearly invader puppets, which were endorsing Blue Wolf II. The exact number is difficult to quantify, but it was on the order of 10 (as opposed to 1 or 100). I have reason to believe that many of these were not from Exshaw, but from other groups such as The Black Hawks.
Analysis at the time lead me to believe that Blue Wolf intended to put up the linked flag on April 1st and pretend to pretend to coup, and then declare on April 2nd that ha ha joke's on you, the coup's serious after all.
I suspect that proving any criminal act by Blue Wolf would be exceedingly difficult as under the law at the time, Sedition was explicitly defined to only include activities onsite and on the official forum (this one). Treason of course is defined as actual acts, and I believe the precedent of TNP v. Blue Wolf II is that planning to commit treason was not itself Treason. (Under the new Legal Code, passed months later, I expect this would be illegal in three ways; it would be Sedition, and it would be conspiracy to commit Treason and Sedition).
NB: Any moderator is free to relocate this discussion if they feel my best guess as to where to put this was wrong. Please do not situate it in the Private Halls however, I do think this should be visible to our residents who are not (yet) in the RA.
