<+mcmasterdonia> I'll go and pull up the agenda ?
* +Tim nods
<+mcmasterdonia> 1. Discussion regarding ProP candidates not selected by the party primary running
<+mcmasterdonia> 2. Report of the Manifesto Committee
<+mcmasterdonia> 3. Primary for the General Elections
<+Chasmanthe> ah yes, that was the agenda
<+Tim> We're missing Elu...
<+Tim> For #2
* KiwiTaicho has joined #ncpp
* +Chasmanthe has left #ncpp
* Chasmanthe has joined #ncpp
* ChanServ sets mode: +v KiwiTaicho
* ChanServ sets mode: +v Chasmanthe
<+KiwiTaicho> hellohello
<+mcmasterdonia> I can open up the manifesto document
<+Chasmanthe> hello KiwiTaicho
* +Tim nods
<+Tim> Sounds good McM
<+Tim> Are you chairing?
<+Tim> OPENING CHAIR NOMINATIONS
<+Tim> I nominate McMasterdonia :3
<+Chasmanthe> I second that
<+Tim> Also
* +Tim bangs gavel
<+Tim> We are a go
<+mcmasterdonia> So lets start with the first item: 1. Discussion regarding ProP candidates not selected by the party primary running
<+Tim> We must first vote on McM
<+Tim> For chair
<+Tim> I vote Aye
<+Chasmanthe> Aye McM for chair
<+mcmasterdonia> Aye
<+Tim> Are we the only ones here?
<+Tim> Well umm....
<+mcmasterdonia> the others were here just a few moments ago
* +Tim pokes the rest
<+Tim> Bel, Earth, KiwiTaicho
<+Bel> Hmm?
<+Bel> Oh, aye
<+Bel> Sorry, busy IRL
<+KiwiTaicho> indeed
<+KiwiTaicho> and aye =P
<+KiwiTaicho> naturally
<+Earth> Pinged
<+Earth> McM wants to b echair?
<+Chasmanthe> I think that ProP members who wish to be candidates should enter the primary, and run if selected.
<+KiwiTaicho> Ping that Earth good!
<+Earth> cause if yes then yes
<+mcmasterdonia> sure.
<+mcmasterdonia> motion carried then.
<+mcmasterdonia> 1. Discussion regarding ProP candidates not selected by the party primary running
<+mcmasterdonia> Returning to this
<+KiwiTaicho> uhh they can still run
<+KiwiTaicho> I would think
<+mcmasterdonia> The issue being that the primaries were held, and rah rah rah, and then some candidates nominated after that.
* +Earth ndos
* +Bel nods
<+Bel> It kinda makes the primary pointless
* +Tim dnos
<+mcmasterdonia> I personally think, the more ProP candidates running the better.
<+Chasmanthe> if they are going to run, then they should run as independent
<+Chasmanthe> because they are outside of the primary
<+Tim> I think that if you didn't win the primary, you should run Indie
<+mcmasterdonia> We should note there is no way for the party to punish members who vote for the non-party endorsed candidate.
<+Tim> Else our Primary means nothing
<+Bel> It's less important in the CO5 election as it's STV
<+Bel> But in the general election, it would lead to vote splitting
<+mcmasterdonia> Ok.. so ideally we would like, them to run as an independent
<+mcmasterdonia> ?
<+Chasmanthe> yes we wouldn't be able to bar them from running altogether
<+mcmasterdonia> Would the party eject members who run against the party approved candidate?
<+Bel> Ideally I'd like party members who don't get selected by the primary to not run
<+Chasmanthe> in extreme cases they could be expelled but that's not really necessary
<+KiwiTaicho> Lol honestly - how would you know?
<+KiwiTaicho> oh!
<+KiwiTaicho> you mean RUNNING against
<+KiwiTaicho> right
<+KiwiTaicho> lol no
<+KiwiTaicho> that would be silly
<+KiwiTaicho> Tbh I don't see why we're even debating it - it seems very clear cut to me
<+mcmasterdonia> What do you think the solution is?
<+Tim> I think if you lose primary, you can't represent ProP
<+Tim> Simple
<+KiwiTaicho> Exactly.
* +Bel nods
<+KiwiTaicho> The benefit being that we send a region-wide TG with our list.
<+Chasmanthe> agreed
<+Bel> I'd be willing to go with that
<+Tim> Aye
<+KiwiTaicho> So you get more advertisement etc if you win the primary
<+Tim> Motion to vote on the matter
<+mcmasterdonia> The region-wide TG only applies to the Co5
<+Bel> Though I would prefer if the party encouraged those who don't get selected to not run
<+mcmasterdonia> Hang on a second Tim
* +Tim nods
<+KiwiTaicho> Ah.
<+mcmasterdonia> I'd like us to agree on if we would suspend membership of those who run against the party approved candidate?
<+mcmasterdonia> or simply not endorse them
<+Tim> Not suspend
<+Chasmanthe> I think that should be an option for consideration
<+KiwiTaicho> I am opposed to suspending membership over it.
<+Tim> At least not in General Election
<+Tim> Maybe in Co5
<+Bel> I'm inclined to say we should suspend it.
<+Chasmanthe> in a situation where it would actually be detrimental for them to run
<+Tim> Bel: In all election situations?
<+Bel> When you joined the party, you signed up to participating in our primary process
<+KiwiTaicho> I'd rather see more candidates in the elections tbh.
<+mcmasterdonia> Remember we are the largest voting block. And the party approved pick will not always be the most popular one with the rest of the reason
<+mcmasterdonia> *region
<+KiwiTaicho> mcmasterdonia: exactly
<+mcmasterdonia> Also we don't want to make some elections uncompetitive, for instance judicial elections
<+KiwiTaicho> Aren't the primaries in the US done by the citizens, not the party?
<+KiwiTaicho> **voted on
* +mcmasterdonia looks to the americans
<+Tim> Indeed
<+Tim> Until the final nomination
<+Tim> Which is party delegates
<+KiwiTaicho> Mmmhmm
<+Chasmanthe> the prop primaries are the final nominations though right?
<+Tim> Well to specify
<+KiwiTaicho> I guess we could suspend party membership if you wanted but our party membership is going to dwindle.
<+KiwiTaicho> For example: I wouldn't let it stop me running.
<+Tim> You need to win a certain number of states to get nomination
<+mcmasterdonia> Neither would I.
<+Tim> Neither would I
* Romanoffia (~chatzilla@h46.71.30.71.dynamic.ip.windstream.net) has joined #ncpp
<+Bel> The alternative is, to my mind, to scrap the Primary process
<+KiwiTaicho> Can I have a show of hands.
<+KiwiTaicho> who WOULD let it stop them?
<+Bel> As under the current system... it's pointless
* Romanoffia has left #ncpp
<+KiwiTaicho> Meh it's more just "we endorse X people"
* +Bel raises hand
<@Eluvatar> hmm
<@Eluvatar> Ehat?
<+KiwiTaicho> So if people don't know who to vote for... "Oh well the ProP endorses X people - they can't be too bad"
<+mcmasterdonia> The primaries are a good way of getting some idea how the party would vote in the election.....
<+Tim> Welcome Elu
<+mcmasterdonia> It doesn't bind it's members
<+mcmasterdonia> Hello Elu. yes ehat.
<+Tim> McMasterdonia = chair
<+KiwiTaicho> And it isn't exactly onerous
<+Tim> Welcome to Congress
<+Chasmanthe> Welcome, Elu
<+mcmasterdonia> Ok. So far the consensus is that we agree they should run as an independent, but their membership should not be suspended?
<+Tim> Indeed
<+Chasmanthe> I would be ok with that
* +Bel is willing to support that
* +Bel but would prefer party discipline on this issue
<+Tim> Maybe also discourage running?
<+Tim> Against the nominees?
<@Eluvatar> well
<+mcmasterdonia> that's a bit hard to put into the rules I think
<+mcmasterdonia> that is more of a cultural thing
<+KiwiTaicho> Particularly when the majority of us admitted we would run anyway
<+Tim> [me]nods
<+Tim> True
<@Eluvatar> someone who lost the primary would know most of the party won't vote for then
<@Eluvatar> *them
<+KiwiTaicho> ^ this is true
<+Tim> Indeed
<+mcmasterdonia> presuming people vote according to the results of the primary. I did not vote according to the Co5 primary results.
<+Tim> Neither did I
<+mcmasterdonia> In honesty.
<+Tim> Well... I did somewhat
<+Chasmanthe> I wasn't a member at the time I voted for co5
* Eluvatar is now known as blue_astavatar
<+Tim> But I picked who I thought best for each ministry
<@blue_astavatar> <3
<@blue_astavatar> HI TIM
<+Purple_Wolf> You're all there I assume? xD
<@blue_astavatar> YES.
<+mcmasterdonia> Lets stick to the agenda :p
<+Purple_Wolf> HI... Probably Asta
<+Purple_Wolf> Did you get elu drunk? :3
<@blue_astavatar> since bw is in the party we should clearly have 2 votes
<+Earth> Did you!/
<+Earth> DID YOU SUCCEED!?
<@blue_astavatar> Working on it.
<+Earth> gooood, goood.
<+Earth> pics!?
<@blue_astavatar>
<+mcmasterdonia> You will have two votes :p
<@blue_astavatar> no they did not (yet) succeed
<+Purple_Wolf> Give us pics!
<+Purple_Wolf> And get Elu drunk xD
<+mcmasterdonia> .....
<+Purple_Wolf> I expect at least one Hangover-style picture
<@blue_astavatar> I motion that the question and response be stricken from the record
<+Purple_Wolf> Seconded
<@blue_astavatar> I retract that motion
<+Chasmanthe> the charter states
<+Chasmanthe> that the logs can only be censored
<+Chasmanthe> for privacy reasons
<+Chasmanthe> on agreement by...
<@blue_astavatar> I move to give TNP to Asta
<+Earth> Seconded
<+Earth> erm.
<+mcmasterdonia> I move that we continue with the congress....
<+Earth> Seconded was to logs.
<@blue_astavatar> no no no
<@blue_astavatar> no giving tnp
<@blue_astavatar> give twp
<+Purple_Wolf> Let's give TWP to Asta
<+Purple_Wolf> I agree
* Purple_Wolf is now known as Tim
<@blue_astavatar> Yeah ok, twp will do for now.
<+mcmasterdonia> may we proceed?
<+Tim> Sure
<+mcmasterdonia> Good
<@blue_astavatar> but please don't get rid of primaries -elu
<+Chasmanthe> (...by vote of the congress)
<+mcmasterdonia> We are not going to
<+Tim> Can you guys sign from now on?
<+Tim> So we know who be who?
<+mcmasterdonia> The discussion so far indicates that we want primaries to continue, and non party approved candidates will run as an independent
<+Tim> Ate
<+mcmasterdonia> if they run
<+Tim> Aye*
<+Chasmanthe> although we do not expect them to run
<+mcmasterdonia> So how to word it into the charter.....?
<+Tim> Hmm
<+Tim> Vatar. Do you know?
<+Tim> Blue as well
<+Tim> Asta shouldn't really be speaking.... But she's Asta <3
<+mcmasterdonia> "Candidates in elections that are not successful in the party primaries will run on an independent platform only"
<+Chasmanthe> no
<+Chasmanthe> that doesn't cover candidates who didn't contest a primary at all
<+Tim> Who were not nominated
<+mcmasterdonia> I thought not successful would cover that.
<+Tim> Instead of not successful
<+mcmasterdonia> As regardless, they did not win it
<+Tim> Or... Elected instead of Nominated
<+Chasmanthe> ok then
<+mcmasterdonia> "Candidates in elections that were not elected in the party primaries will run on an independent platform only."
* +Tim likes that
<+mcmasterdonia> In any other opinions?
<+Chasmanthe> ok
* +Tim motions to le vote
<+Chasmanthe> wait
<+Chasmanthe> some people are not speaking
<+Tim> >_________________>
<+Tim> Fine :L
<+Chasmanthe> Tim see if they are awake
<+mcmasterdonia> Bel Earth KiwiTaicho
* +Tim pokes Blue_Astavatar
<+Chasmanthe> what happens if they don't vote?
* +Tim puts a bottle of vodka in #ncpp
<+Bel> "Party members not selected in the primary shall be listed as an independent should they run in the subsequent election"
<+Chasmanthe> I prefer Bel's wording
<+mcmasterdonia> either or. I'm happy with either
<+Tim> "...selected by the party..."
<+Chasmanthe> the primary is by the party
<+mcmasterdonia> mhm
<+Tim> Else they could argue that so and so selected me
<+Tim> Just trying to patch a random loophole
<+mcmasterdonia> I don't see that as a loophole lol
<+Bel> Semantics
* +Tim considers it a loophole
<+mcmasterdonia> Motion to vote on bels wording?
<+Chasmanthe> I second that
<+Tim> Aye
<+mcmasterdonia> Ok, vote aye nay or abstain
<+Chasmanthe> Aye
<+Tim> Arghh
<+Bel> Aye
<+Tim> Savvy
<+Tim> (Aye)
<+mcmasterdonia> KiwiTaicho Earth?
<+Tim> Blue_Astavatar
<+Earth> aye
<+mcmasterdonia> Abstain
<+Tim> 4| 0| 1
<+Tim> We need 1 more aye to pass
<+mcmasterdonia> KiwiTaicho?
<+mcmasterdonia> Won't it still have to go to a forum vote?
<+Tim> AstaWolfieGarch?
<+Chasmanthe> hold on
<+Tim> McM: I believe so
<+Chasmanthe> are there 9 of us or 11?
<+mcmasterdonia> 9
<+mcmasterdonia> The last two are not party members
<+mcmasterdonia> and neither is Asta
<+Chasmanthe> oh I see
<+Tim> Indeed
<+Tim> So 9
<+mcmasterdonia> I'll change my vote to Aye
<+Tim> Passes
<+mcmasterdonia> 5|0|0
<+Tim> Last Call
<+mcmasterdonia> Motion carried.
<+mcmasterdonia> I'll put it up to the forum, anywho
<+Tim> Whoo!
<+Tim> Manifesto!!!
<+Chasmanthe> lol
<+mcmasterdonia> ok
<+Tim> Blue_Astavatar!!!!
<+mcmasterdonia> The report on the manifesto
<+mcmasterdonia> Is that no work has been done :p
<+mcmasterdonia> At least on the google doc
<+Tim> Lol
<+Tim> ProP: Our platform is that platforms are too mainstream
<+mcmasterdonia> I'm not sure if it is worth continuing with, given that elections are so soon
<+Tim> Indeed
<+mcmasterdonia> but if we get it done in time, then release it of course.
<+Tim> I motion to table Item #2
<+Bel> Seconded
<+mcmasterdonia> Vote Aye Nay or Abstain
<+mcmasterdonia> Aye
<+Tim> Aye
<+Chasmanthe> what is tabling?
<+Tim> Procrastinate it
<+KiwiTaicho> was getting lunch mcmasterdonia =P
<+Chasmanthe> Aye
<+Bel> Also, add a mild scolding to said committee for not doing it's job
<+Tim> Eluvatar. Scold scold
<+mcmasterdonia> I was also meant to help :p
<+Tim> 3 | 0 | 0
<+Bel> Aye
<+mcmasterdonia> I yield the chair to Tim ;p
<+mcmasterdonia> 4|0|0
<+Tim> I won't be able to post the log
<+Tim> But okay :3
<+mcmasterdonia> KiwiTaicho vote on tabling the second item on the agenda
<+mcmasterdonia> I was being sarcastic tim :p
<+Tim> Good
<+mcmasterdonia> or Earth xD
<+Earth> what am i voting for?
<+KiwiTaicho> aye =P
<+Earth> aye
<+Tim> Passed
<+mcmasterdonia> 6|0|0
<+mcmasterdonia> Motion carried
<+Tim> Earth is now leader of NS
<+Earth> YAY!
<+Tim>
<+Tim> Item 3!
<+mcmasterdonia> 3. Primary for the General Elections
<+mcmasterdonia> I guess this is just a vague discussion
<+Tim> Tim for Vice?
<+Tim> :3
<+mcmasterdonia> Eluvatar suggested yesterday the option of having a "none of the above" on the primary ballots
* +Bel nods
<+Tim> You can Q&A me if ya want :3
<+mcmasterdonia> What do we think of the above suggestion first?
<+mcmasterdonia> The "none of the above" option
<+Tim> I like it
<+Chasmanthe> what if NOTA wins then?
<+mcmasterdonia> Ultimately that would mean the party would not endorse either candidate, and would look elsewhere
<+Tim> Sucks to suck
<+Tim> Indeed
<+mcmasterdonia> For example if it were to happen in the Delegate or Vice Del primaries, another member of the party might be encouraged to run
<+Chasmanthe> haven't the ballots already been sent out?
<+mcmasterdonia> Yes
<+mcmasterdonia> This is for in futuure
<+mcmasterdonia> *future
<+Chasmanthe> oh I see
* +Tim wonders if he'll have to self-nominate for VD
<+mcmasterdonia> You'll have to wait and see xD
<+Tim> Indeed
<+Tim> I'm waiting to see who else runs atm
<+Chasmanthe> what date do nominations open?
<+mcmasterdonia> today
<+Tim> They opened
<+mcmasterdonia> Bel KiwiTaicho what do you think of that suggestion
<+KiwiTaicho> Of having a none of the above option?
<+KiwiTaicho> Sounds good to me
<+Tim> Brb.
<+mcmasterdonia> We could hold a forum vote, on future primaries having the "none of the above"option
<+mcmasterdonia> second?
<+KiwiTaicho> I'll second.
* +mcmasterdonia opens charter
<+mcmasterdonia> All primary election ballots will have an option of "none of the above"
<+mcmasterdonia> We need to think of the wording
<+mcmasterdonia> I presume we need to place it into the charter
<@blue_astavatar> agree with none,if the above
<@blue_astavatar> not necessarily
<+Tim> Back
<@blue_astavatar> charter does not prohibit a resolution to have none if the above
* +Tim nods
<+mcmasterdonia> It would be well placed in the charter though right?
<+mcmasterdonia> Ah right
<+mcmasterdonia> I'll put it up for a forum vote then.
<+mcmasterdonia> Any further discussion regarding the primaries?
<+Tim> Tim 4 Vice?
<+Tim> AMA?
<+mcmasterdonia> AMA???
<+Tim>
<+Tim> Ask Me Anything
<+Tim> Reddit term
* Isimud (Isimud@c-67-169-65-183.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit
<+mcmasterdonia> ah
<+mcmasterdonia> Just to be clear
<+mcmasterdonia> If you do not win the party primaries, will you contest regardless?
<+Tim> I have not 100% decided, but at the moment. Yes I believe I would seek Vice Delegate.
<+Tim> May I ask you the same question?
<+mcmasterdonia> ofc you may
<+mcmasterdonia> I'm also not 100% decide, for me it depends on how people vote in that primary
<+mcmasterdonia> As in how close it is or isn't.
<+Tim> Aye. Same here.
<@blue_astavatar> hm
<+Tim> Eluvatar: same question to you
<@blue_astavatar> I will not contest if I lose the primary
<@blue_astavatar> -weekly
<@blue_astavatar> e
<@blue_astavatar> -elu
* +Earth snickers
<+Tim> [me]nods
<@blue_astavatar> dunno how swype turned elu into weekly
<+Tim> Heh
<+mcmasterdonia> No further issues or questions?
<@blue_astavatar> bbl
<+mcmasterdonia> k
<+mcmasterdonia> If there is none, I move that we adjourn the meeting
<+Chasmanthe> the primaries end at 1200 UTC
* +Tim nods
<+Tim> I second the motion
<+Tim> Let's adjourn
<+mcmasterdonia> Vote Aye Nay or Abstain
<+mcmasterdonia> Aye
<+Chasmanthe> Aye
<+Chasmanthe> 3|0|0
<+mcmasterdonia> 2|0|0
<+Chasmanthe> no wait, Tim didn't vote
<+mcmasterdonia> xD
<+mcmasterdonia> Tim, Earth, KiwiTaicho and Bel
<+Chasmanthe> we are three votes short of majority
<+KiwiTaicho> aye
<+Chasmanthe> 3|0|0
<+Bel> Aye
<+mcmasterdonia> 4|0|0
<+mcmasterdonia> Tim and Earth :p
<+Tim> Ate
<+Tim> Aye*
<+mcmasterdonia> 5|0|0
<+Tim> I said "let's adjourn this" should count
<+Tim>
<+mcmasterdonia> Before I opened the vote xD
<+Tim> Ah
<+Tim> Wel... AYE
<+Tim> Good Congress errybody
<+Tim> We done?
* +Tim hands McMasterdonia the Gavel
<+mcmasterdonia> Yeah motion carried
<+mcmasterdonia> Adjourned!
