New map proposal

embolalia

TNPer
View / Download: PNG | Google Earth KMZ | SVG (R-click->Download) | GitHub
How to get a spot:
Right now, things are first-come, first-serve. I have no hard-and-fast rules for who can have a spot, or restrictions on how things can look. I do have some general guidelines and suggestions.
Given that this is a feeder region, and there's a fair amount of turnover in membership, I'd like to see that you've been here for a few weeks, and seem like you intend to stay here.
Additionally, you should not expect a territory as large as Canada. Given the number of nations in TNP, and the fact that this map is only the size of one Earth, I'd expect "European-sized" nations in most cases, though exceptions might be made.
I'll entertain the notion of adding land or changing coastlines, if I get the impression that you're serious about your cartography or roleplay, and the changes aren't massive or ridiculous. (I talk a bit more about this below.)
When you post your request, please give me a general idea of the climate you want, or the spot you want, as well as the general size. If you want to be really helpful, make an outline in MS Paint
IMPORTANT: The map is a projection. Sizes are not exactly as they appear, especially toward the poles. I am working on a way to address this problem more effectively. In the mean time, you may want to use the Google Earth file to see what an area actually looks like before committing to it.



About the Map:

Save for the regions that use RL Earth, I don't think anyone has done this before. If you ask me, this is incredible, amazing, awesome, and all those other words.

So: Basic details. Google Earth has an "image overlay" feature. Basically, this allows you to replace their satellite images with your own. What we'll do is put a fictional map in, thus creating an easy-to-access spherical model of our "world". Thus, we can have a realistic regional cartography (in that it occupies a semi-sphere rather than a flat plane), which can lead to more realistic climatology, travel paths, etc., while also being able to see each nation in a relatively undistorted way. I'll put a more detailed explanation of why this matters on the page, along with more technical detail. One last detail I should mention is that I plan (if the region wants to do this) on making both an overlay (low-detail, no distortion) and a scalable PDF/SVG (higher detail, high distortion).

Now for the issues: As you may know, it is impossible to put a flat image on a sphere without distortion, and vice versa. It's not as big of a deal near the equator, or with small nations. Unfortunately, given that you are the North Pacific, this will likely mean a fair bit of stretching for many of you. Long story short, if you already have a nation already mapped out that you want on the globe, it'll be hard to put on without much distortion if it's large and/or not near the equator.

Next come the concerns, specifically my stylistic concerns:
I'm a fan of continental cartography. If you look at my IDU map, you can see generally how I do (and an idea of the level of detail I would try to provide). That's not to say I can't or won't do archipelagic cartography. Note that Embolalia itself is an archipelago. But it feeds into why I want my greater vision of an entire world, which we'll then "lease out" to other regions.
Secondly, I like cartography that a non-expert might find realistic. There's a fair bit of leeway in this, but... how to put this... we may have a bit of a disagreement if you want a 500km-long phallus. (Though, there probably will be at least a few mildly phallic shapes, since those do tend to occur naturally.)

And finally, a general concept: The region is the North Pacific. Of course, since this is an entirely new world, the "Pacific" is something of an arbitrary classification. I don't know if this will be a problem or not; it depends on how integral you consider being surrounded by the RL Pacific rim. Anyway, given that Grosseschnauzer is a TNP member and has a number of IDU puppets traditionally located to the west of our region, I made TNP occupy one or more archipelagos in and parts of continents along the ocean to the west of the IDU. Note that all of it is subject to drastic changes if needed. You can see that the EID has signed on to be an archipelago to the IDU's east, and Antarctic Oasis has agreed to be our south pole (which, unfortunately, makes the map not entirely original, but mapping the poles in an equirectangular projection is nearly impossible, so a canned map just saves on effort).
 
This project has my complete backing. I realize we will have to work out the details but I support moving forward with this endeavor.
 
The IDU has been reliant upon having a regional map for roleplay for years. The problem has been that our original mapmaker works for a NGO and repeatedly had to leave home for projects in other nations or regions with little notice, up to a year or more at a time.

The IDU's second mapmaker started another map, and he too, ended up having to leave the game for lack of time due to his job (it had something to do with natural resources in California, and he hasn't been heard from for a couple of years.)

This is the IDU's third attempt. One of my IDU puppets has been Delegate of the IDU in the past (four separate terms no less), even as my main WA nation has mostly been here. So when this came up at the IDU forums, I suggested Embolalia contact Blackshear and see if this alliteration of a map project would be appealing to TNP.
My main concern is that current backups of the map files be placed somewhere online so that they can be accessed if Embolalia isn't around, and that others have copies of whatever software is being used to draw the maps. So we don't have to start over again.
With this being a multi-regional map, that becomes even more important.
And for those players who haven't been around as long as Blackshear and I have, The IDU (International Democratic Union) is a region that was founded by refugees from TNP at the time of Great Bight. They wanted to do their thing with resolutions in the UN era, and were the most successful region in having resolutions adopted in the UN era of Nationstates. They had a healthy relationship with TNP, and for a time, they maintained the resolutions and so forth related to the NS game on the TNP forums during that era.

I wouldn't mind if the IDU decides at some point to re-establish embassies with TNP, but I suspect the IDU wants to get their map-based role play back up-and-running first.

I also support this project as map-based role play is a great way to stimulate forum activity that is sustainable and does not require coups. So in my voice as Vice Delegate of TNP I join Blackshear in endorsing Embolalia's map project.
 
I do have a plan for the files. I have a server (Embolalia.net) which, though I don't update the web portion of it, I use for a few other things (namely, a node on the Nerdfighteria.net IRC network). Of course, if someone wants to mirror it, that's fine. Probably a good idea, too, although unnecessary until at least August 2012 (I prepaid through then, so it's going to be up until then). Anyway, when I have a "beta" release, I'll start uploading. Once the major landmasses and general shapes of the archipelagos are sorted out, I'm figuring I'll create separate files for each region, which a trusted person there can modify and then upload. From time to time, someone will compile these to make a new png of the whole map, which can then be imported into Google Earth. Having been on the other side of slow or CTE'd cartographers, I, too, would like to keep that from happening.
 
:clap: I am doing this publicly to give credit :clap: ,

and

:evil: allow opportunity for dissent :headbang: .

but

:winner: I feel you earned it. :winner:

Embolalia, I too want to see a map.
I applaud your efforts.

I think this approach would work well:
PSD layers in photoshop keeps a lot straight,but changes are a pain.
JPG output is simple, compact, and useful on any device.

I understand your approach this way (I've had to build those too :) )
MAP layers use code to run the changes, over the image, made once.
Changes are therefore easy and input based.
But then the use of said map requires code too.
AKA google maps need an onload() spot in the body plus some java...

I propose that we use a map that is JPG based so there are more folks who can use the map.
Only a handful of folks need to change it every 6 months anyway...
Post the PSD and everyone would have access to the layers too...

Since you started this thread and discussion, you are honorary Group 1 in my map iteration here.

http://s13.zetaboards.com/TNP/topic/634442/1/#new

:agree: tell me where you want to be and it's done.

or

we can continue to discuss process :) :console:
 
I'm sorry; I'm not entirely sure what you mean here. It looks to me from that link like you've decided to re-hash TNPs existing map, without using my ideas. I know I haven't posted here in a while, for which I apologize. It has been a very busy summer for me, and I didn't get as much time to spend on this as I would have liked. If TNP does not want to use my idea for a multi-region spherical map, that's okay. I understand that my inactivity over the summer may have led you to believe erroneously that I'd dropped the project. I would have appreciated a telegram in confirmation of this (as it stands, I didn't hear anything about your map work until I happened to come back to this thread), but that's in the past.

Just so that I know where I stand on this: Is TNP going to go with my new map, or your refresh of the old one?
 
embolalia --> I wrote telegrams to try to handle this diplomatically.
I dug up your work, that was abandoned for 90 days, to give credit.
That is the point of this threads renewed life...

I started working on the map 40 days ago, as I was advised I had permission;
STRAIGHT FROM the delegate.
As it was laid out for me, I filled the void left by all.
There was only the original 4 maps to work from...and no layers, nothing....

Basically there was a void:
Analysis led to paralysis for the politicians, you left, and nobody else stepped up.
I got authorization, and started work on said void, the TNP MAP.

My map is posted and I have actively encouraged the involvement of all in the region.
From my perspective, your hiatus is the only thing that kept your system from being implemented prior to my arrival.
Respect for those efforts is the reason we are having this discussion at this time (group 1 is preferred 1st choice status).

SO HERE ARE YOUR OPTIONS:
Where would you like to be on the new map (aka coordinates please), and I'll continue to handle it jpg style.
OR
Go ahead and jack the jpgs, push them into a SVG, and we start using your system....
AND I PASS ALL RESPONSIBILITY ON TO YOU!!!!

What is your preference?
 
First of all, it's not really up to me. I'm not a TNP member; this is a decision that should be left up to the region. (To that point, additionally, I do not have nor require a spot on TNPs map.) Obviously I would prefer to have TNP be a part of our project, but that's entirely up to your region.

Regarding the jpg, a direct conversion into the SVG isn't really possible. From the looks of it, your map is "flat". It doesn't account for the curvature of the earth. (It looks, though, as if it is based on a Mercator projection with a flat scale laid over it, but this is moot anyway.) There exists no way to put a "flat" map on a spherical surface, so in converting your map some level of distortion would be necessitated. Additionally, the Pacific Rim as depicted in your map does not exist in our map, so at least some of that would need to be changed.

That all being said, it would be possible to pull rough shapes of the nations which are currently on your revised map and include them on a new TNP section of our map. This is what I have done with both the IDU and EID. My general plan for TNP was to have it be the northern and western rims of an ocean, as well as some islands of varying sizes near such. This could easily be made to account for the few nations with existing claims.

I'll telegram your delegate and ask his opinion, and post with my foreign mission on your RMB.
 
As a retort;

1, There are 3000 nations to put on this map.
How do you propose to handle that numbers of nations?

2. I don't care about a bit of curve. Bend my map :)

3. I got permission from the delegate......

TBONE STEAKS

p.s.
I started this after I upgraded a working version of NS Economy.
http://www.broomdces.com/nseconomy/nseconomy.php
(deprecated code --> See about page for details)

It's a beta version, so if you find something that doesn't work, let me know here...
http://s13.zetaboards.com/TNP/topic/6825520/1/#new

Once we have 100 days of no errors, I'll start pushing the new code back towards SourceForge.com.
I am building things up, not destroying them...Care to play along?
 
I'm not sure we do, either. I'm not contesting, tbone, that you got permission from the delegate. I'm not saying you can't or shouldn't proceed. All I'm trying to say is that if TNP would like to proceed with a spherical map, I can do that. And if they don't, I have no problem stepping off.

(And, as an aside, while there may be nearly 4,000 nations in the region, a relatively small percentage of those will actually request places on the map. I say this with years of experience doing regional maps, and looking at the number of nations that were on the map prior. My plan, for what it's worth, was simply first-come first-serve.)
 
I think we are both begging off mandating our way :)
Kudos to you :)

Let me ask you this first;
Is it ok if I finish this version flat, and then we bend it?
That adds our stuff to your regional version if I follow your rules right?

Next point: This is above both our pay grades...
Therefore, one of the following shall have to happen to resolve it :)
A; one of us has to decide (and we both begged off).
OR
B; delegate, vice delegate, or elder decides (eluvatar, you want to call it)
OR
C; RA decides, and we need weeks to wait for their answer...

This is a jurisdictional issue neither of us wants to fight with :)
But since we don't care that much, we shouldn't escalate it to the RA in my opinion (too long a wait for a little issue).
I think it's a "You make the call" for Eluvatar, Grosse, or Blackshear....one of you want to do so?
 
As I am now the newly elected Delegate, I'd like both of you to send me a PM here at the forums outlining what you see as a middle ground that both of you can agree to. I think we can find a middle ground with a little effort. I'll help work it out, but I need to see where things are at now.
Once something is worked out, we'll give the R.A. a chance to comment, but I will not wait indefinitely to settle this. I view the regional map, if properly done to be a way to bring about a higher level of activity in the forums, and I view the revival of the NS Economy appliance as the same sort of device. I've encouraged Embolalia both here and at the IDU to seriously explore the "multi-region" concept for the map(s) as well as his idea for a next generation platform for a baseline map. I'm still of a mind to find a way to have both Embolalia and Tbone involved, but I have no intention to drag this out but I'd like to see if we can get everyone to a compromise, and to do so now.
 
:facepalm: You got a PM within hours of your Request GS. :facepalm:

:worship: ...and all work on the maps ceased....just like you asked GS... :worship:

Since, I have received several requests....I will just tell them to call you from now on, you obviously have plenty of time for it...
As I am now the newly elected Delegate,

WHY?
Rather than settling this problem with a decision, we have stopped everything per the delegate.
Instead of rendering a decision since his crowning, he decided these things were more important:
1. reordering the layout on the boards,
2. bitching about a nation for it's supposed threat to society (TBONE STEAKS)
3. chose a VD with fewer than 50 endos, further eroding regional security
4. made rules limiting communication on the NS Forum
5. created a political action committee to ensure your reign (the ProP)
Progressive Party Congress Founding
6. Negotiating with the IDU (where GS puppets reside) from his post as Delegate.
Embolalia Request for Embassy. is followed by this decision? LOL --> CAHOOTS!

Had your priorities been to make a decision, and use the system I gave you (documented below) to go get endos instead, you wouldn't be here...
A; You would have more than 220 endos out of 438.
(50% of the regions available, so you could claim that you won a democratic election).
B; You would have a map being updated.
C; You would have given said system to SYDIA to get endos and qualify as your VD.

:) But that doesn't really help you control POWER does it :)

I think the delegate is preparing for an invasion...maybe from the IDU...
In the mean time we will just assume this to be spite....

My justification for that statement:
The delegate has decided to stop the map production to "Hear arguments" about the map's finer points.
ALL of this after I have resurrected, been approved, and been working on the TNP map for well over 30 days...

Rather than let me finish, I should be giving it to someone who has influence over some of his puppets outside this region?
That sure brings up security matters for me!

Further, giving attack routes, supply convoy access, and other sensitive information to Embolalia is a risk IMHO.
I know I am new, and I know I am not that big, but that wreaks of security concerns.
I also know I am unable to do anything about it, but stopping the map will make a ruckus...

Therefore, the weekly update last week will be my last.
TBONE STEAKS does resign as TNP cartographer.
You are free to draw up your invasion maps fellas...
:worship: I am not in your way. :worship:

JAL may have the Drop Kicks by the numbers, but he doesn't hold a candle to your smile while you eat the kids does he.
Effective consolidation of power ...

TBONE STEAKS

p.s.
For the record, AKA PUBLIC NOTICE!
I am kind to folks I don't know, and this is the root of my endo count I assume.
(I noticed you haven't gotten any new ones. Been an ass GS?)

I was working for the good of the region, so I got a high endo count for that effort as well I assume.
(Generally when you help those the "RULING" class has neglected, you find some new friends)

Please notice the endo count hasn't moved in weeks, and was stopped prior to TBone Steaks gaining responsibility --> Which I didn't want.

Neither GS or BS even had to ask!

At least when BS did finally contact our nation he was cordial.
GS's inquiry wasn't. (Either you will....or I'll make you GET OUT!)

The delegation's security seems to be a sticky point, even though TBone Steaks is doing nothing to capture the delegation, and even gave GS a system to find, gather, and double check WA Endos per his request...
Grosse's Request for Upgrade to NS Economy
NS Economy System to Check WA Representatives.. (Click on the WAs in the PAGE...)

What are you really doing GS???
 
Encourage me to make an engine to get Endos while in beta of my NsEconomy, then act astonished that I have endos...

Give me the map responsibility, that you are even represented on, and then act like you didn't know...

LOL, You like the Grateful Dead ->> GS?

...Other times I can barely see.
Lately it occurs to me, what a long, strange trip it been...

Busted, down on bourbon street. Set up, like a bowling pin.
Knocked down it gets to wearing thin. They just won't let you be, oh no.

I'll keep truckin....but the italics are now your line Pal...
 
5. created a political action committee to ensure your reign (the ProP)
Progressive Party Congress Founding
First of all, we're a party, not a political action committee. Secondly, it's quite plain in our logs that Gross has had absolutely no involvement in our party. Indeed, most of our members have been political opponents of his in the past at some point.
 
The Nation of Tbone Steaks makes all Apologies to Gulliver and the remainder of the PROP.
Our nation, and or our political position, is certainly not trying to redefine your movement.
Nor were we discussing it's legitimacy, legal, moral, or ethical basis.....Not Our Problem.

Was just saying that it got done is all.
Congratulations to you on the forming of your organization.

p.s.
Loved the funny below your signature too... It is rather clever in my eyes...
 
Back at you there Grosse...prefer the court of public opinion as you have more power than I my friend.

Here is your activity log...
Most Recent Government Activity: 59 minutes ago

119 minutes ago: Grosseschnauzer was endorsed by The State of Vulrikh.
6 hours ago: Grosseschnauzer lodged a message on the The North Pacific Regional Message Board.
12 hours ago: Grosseschnauzer endorsed The Liberal Unitary Republic of Goobergunchia III.
12 hours ago: Grosseschnauzer was endorsed by The Liberal Unitary Republic of Goobergunchia III.
15 hours ago: Grosseschnauzer was endorsed by The Allied States of Mycan.
16 hours ago: Grosseschnauzer lost the endorsement of The Armed Republic of TBone Steaks.
1 day ago: Following new legislation in Grosseschnauzer, the tenet of free speech is held dear.
1 day 1 hour ago: Grosseschnauzer lodged a message on the The North Pacific Regional Message Board.
1 day 3 hours ago: Grosseschnauzer endorsed The Democratic Republic of VeCinu21.
1 day 3 hours ago: Grosseschnauzer endorsed The Federal Republic of First Continental State.

3 WHOLE ENDOS GIVEN since your crowning...sure are on a campaign to gain enough to make the region secure there aren't cha...

NOPE!

You and a few others "DECIDED" on your own to withdraw your endorsements.
A meeting and a withdrawal of overall power from the region rather than making it better?
Just for now in order to help get your endo levels back down a little closer to a safe level.

YES, I spent the day running some numbers, and learning how to become delegate, without approval.
Security of the TNP is tenuous to say the least, and if we don't want to lose it, you need to get on it...

Why don't you go secure the region and get some endorsements so raiders can't take the place with only 35 armys.
Mean 34
Median 35
Standard Deviation of plus or minus about 2 armies
Mean Deviation of plus or minus about 3 armies

For Security's Sake, I won't publish the rest of it here...
I Like My Region TOO!
 
So do not go blaming me when I haven't done or asked anyone to do anything, it really isn't pretty and really won't resolve anything.

Me blaming you Grosse? :) I wouldn't dare your highness! :)
Exposing your angle of politics for others to see? YEP!
And frankly, you are right! You haven't done anything for regional security.

Actions speak far louder than words, and you are giving me ammo by the hour...
It's been roughly 11 hours since a post...

$10 yo, $5 hoppin 5-6.
Give me the dice, I'm feeling lucky....

Did anything change??? Here is my roll...
AGAIN; For the Record..
Grosseschnauzer National Happenings
Most Recent Government Activity: 3 hours ago

11 hours ago: Grosseschnauzer was endorsed by The Fairly Well-Liked Dominion of Blackshear41.
12 hours ago: Grosseschnauzer endorsed The State of Vulrikh.
14 hours ago: Grosseschnauzer was endorsed by The State of Vulrikh.

Conclusions:
1. Endo, from the former Delegate, whose interest in security is obvious.
2. One total other endo.
3. No other activity in the security arena.

On the other hand, the VD, whom has always treated me with respect, has more endos outbound than the system will show me...

National Happenings

Most Recent Government Activity: 21 minutes ago

Seconds ago: Pasargad endorsed The Free Land of Orwellos.
Seconds ago: Pasargad endorsed The Kingdom of Orbanik.
Seconds ago: Pasargad endorsed The United Socialist States of Ophidia Prime.
1 minute ago: Pasargad endorsed The Federal Republic of Omicron Epsilon.
2 minutes ago: Pasargad endorsed The Democratic States of Nueva Cascadia.
4 minutes ago: Pasargad endorsed The Sultanate of Philippadom.
5 minutes ago: Pasargad endorsed The Republic of Peoples and Stuffs.
6 minutes ago: Pasargad endorsed The Commonwealth of Partistheria.
7 minutes ago: Pasargad endorsed The United Socialist States of Parcena.
7 minutes ago: Pasargad endorsed The Republic of Paravand.


Who is getting the trains to run on time here? Pasargad!
Who is making the region more secure? Pasargad!
Who is setting up their political whims and brow beating anyone he chooses on the forums instead?
IMHO that would be Grosse...
 
Honorable AG, I appreciate your oversight on this discussion.
In fact, those numbers don't bear out quite like everybody would think...there are several.
BUT ALAS, I'm not doing his work for him...

And, IF in fact the Delegate has endorsed EVERY WA Nation in TNP, Why won't they endorse him?
This may transition into the root of this discussion quickly based on security concerns, but I will glass over it for now.

Let us start by looking at what are our National Happenings for the Kingdom of GS:
Most Recent Government Activity: 49 minutes ago
3 hours ago: Grosseschnauzer was endorsed by The Federal Republic of First Continental State.
21 hours ago: Grosseschnauzer was endorsed by The Fairly Well-Liked Dominion of Blackshear41.
22 hours ago: Grosseschnauzer endorsed The State of Vulrikh.
1 day ago: Grosseschnauzer was endorsed by The State of Vulrikh.

Conclusions remain the same.
PAS on the other hand is within 4 of me, and 15 of taking GS...
Tbone Steaks dropped several more endos by personal request to other nations.
In the same 3 posts period of time...

If this is our delegate, and he is unable to garner even 50% of the endorsements, I am concerned that he wasn't even really elected...

I mean really, 11 votes out of 3000 nations?
Is it a wonder then Inspector, why this gentleman is unable to garner any endorsements to secure our kingdom?
T
 
Screw it, I stated my position for 3 days.
I am but one nation against a tyrant...whipping up a good catastrophe are you GS?

I won't be your scapegoat GS...
Maps are down, satellites removed from orbit, citizenry packed and moved.
Tbone Steaks Government Signing off as a TNP Citizen...

The rest of you face no threat from me.
May your lands be rich and prosperous...

Switch me to Foreign envoy or delete me altogether...

**Turns to leave and mutters under breath**
Eluvatar & Pasargad, I am only doing this for you two...
Otherwise I would make this schmuck boot me and use up his influence...
To be the bigger man in this game will not take long I assure you.
And certainly not by force, misdirection, or malicious maneuvers...
 
TB please reconsider and try to understand the forum politics .this place moves at snail pace and adjusting here takes time .i suggest you first apply for RA .
 
Closing arguments in the court of public opinion...

Now that TBone Steaks has moved, we have no influence what so ever.
The merit of those "threat" arguments have been eradicated.

I am not the problem; Grosse just wanted to pick on me rather than do his work....

2 days after I have gone, let's do a little data check to prove the point:

Grosse: 205 Endos for the "fearless leader" .... Congratulations! 15 in 2 days.
Pas: 188 Endos, but has had over a dozen removed and had to post to the NS MB to stop :)

I rest my case...
 
Tbone, I don't really know what to make of all this. Had you taken the care to look for map information that wasn't stickied and was over the (relatively short) age limit, as I did when I first proposed this, you would have seen this thread. You would also have read the first post, where I mention that GS has IDU puppets. It's not exactly a secret. I don't blame you for not knowing the history of the IDU, how we were formed by refugees from TNP after a particularly nasty raid, since that was also before my time. But it's certainly no secret that the IDU and TNP have been close. In fact, that's the exact reason I suggested bringing TNP in on this.

You seem to have some problem with GS. I don't know why, and it's really none of my business. If you want to give up because you feel maligned somehow, that's your business. Bear in mind, however, that when you complain that a delegate ignored your work on a map when addressing another person's proposal to do their own map work, you're preaching to the choir here. Same goes for your belief that, because you spent a long time doing said work, you should be given control of the project.


GS, I apologize for not PMing you earlier. I have been unbelievably busy the last week with a project at work. I know IRLitis is lame and obnoxious, but there's not much I can do. I'll send you a PM on the forums and a TG on NS, basically asking if you're okay with me continuing.
 
embolalia:
Tbone, I don't really know what to make of all this. Had you taken the care to look for map information that wasn't stickied and was over the (relatively short) age limit, as I did when I first proposed this, you would have seen this thread. You would also have read the first post, where I mention that GS has IDU puppets. It's not exactly a secret. I don't blame you for not knowing the history of the IDU, how we were formed by refugees from TNP after a particularly nasty raid, since that was also before my time. But it's certainly no secret that the IDU and TNP have been close. In fact, that's the exact reason I suggested bringing TNP in on this.

You seem to have some problem with GS. I don't know why, and it's really none of my business. If you want to give up because you feel maligned somehow, that's your business. Bear in mind, however, that when you complain that a delegate ignored your work on a map when addressing another person's proposal to do their own map work, you're preaching to the choir here. Same goes for your belief that, because you spent a long time doing said work, you should be given control of the project.


GS, I apologize for not PMing you earlier. I have been unbelievably busy the last week with a project at work. I know IRLitis is lame and obnoxious, but there's not much I can do. I'll send you a PM on the forums and a TG on NS, basically asking if you're okay with me continuing.
I'd be happy to contribute working files from the map I maintained.
 
Sure. Although, I don't know how much of it will be really usable in the new map. And, as I recall, most of the nations on the old maps have since CTE'd. I know Tbone did some work with clearing them out. Unfortunately, it seems he's removed the work he's done, so I have no way of knowing.

Speaking of which, I've uploaded my map file to a public GitHub repository. Anyone who wants to download it can, at any time. Since GitHub is really meant for code, more than svg images, it's not very straightforward how: Click on worldmap.svg, then right-click on "raw" (middle-right of your screen) and select save link as. This will download it for you. Additionally, if you know anything about Git or read the GitHub tutorials, you can fork that repository at any time should I disappear.

https://github.com/embolalia/NS-Globe
 
FYI embolalia, the Endorsements and lack thereof for the delegate was the rub....
:headbang: this is collateral damage to that discussion...and a shame too. :headbang:

For the record, I lobbied for your side equally regarding the maps, and left the decision in GS's hands.
I presented said discussion to GS in a personal PM, as he asked publicly.
I was more than willing to work with you, I hold no grudge nor thought of the maps as mine.


The update was to go up on Friday, but that wasn't a priority...
I wasn't just stonewalled...I was attacked for other reasons.
In order to prove I was no threat, it was explained I should vacate all power positions...
So I DID :) No threat :)

My question is, do we have an answer yet from the one who stopped all production?

If you want my maps, TG me your email and I'll send em to you...I'm just not going to host them (3mb).
El E, same goes for you.

:no: As far as I can see, you still don't have an authorized way to move forward though. :no:
 
TBone, I was waiting to hear back from as I was hoping to make sure more than one person is involved with and has access to any map files.

In the last day or so I've even suggested a possible way to do that here, I believe it is possible with the forum setup used by Zetaboards, and if we can get an agreement on who and what, then that will make it fairly easy to implement.

I have determined that it is possible to create a special permission mask to upload files here, and I suspect that will likely be the fairest solution. The issue I haven't looked into yet is file size limits for upload, but that will be next. (I hoping Embolalia and Eluvatar can sign off on a common approach.

The IDU has successfully used maps to stimulate role play in their past, so such a plan would be helpful for both TNP and IDU.

As to my history with the IDU; it's no secret to any player who's been here for at least three, four, five years. The IDU offered me refuse in the beginning of the Pixiedance Dictatorship, as I was actually working on a NSUN resolution which was adopted (the one I mention in my signature.)

When I became an admin here (at Hersfold's retirement) I pared back my activity with the IDU, but as then, I still hope to retire there at some point and get involve in writing resolutions again and getting them passed. Doing that and being involved in feeder politics are not mutually comparable activities.

As to the endorsement issue, while TNP does not have a numerical cap as such, we do have laws that set the range for certain officials, and a means of addressing an others whose levels come too close to the Delegate or Vice Delegate, especially during the transition following an election. I know how part of the problem arose, and it was something I had no personal control over. The few unendorsements that you got were relatively few but it was designed to get you as close to at least 20 below the Delegate as quickly as possible.

You made an assumption that I hadn't given enough endorsements, when in fact I've been between 98 to 100 percent of the region's WA members for quite a while (even before I became Vice Delegate some months ago.)

I've sent messages to every WA member that hadn't endorsed me the other day and night, and of the 250 or so I sent out, it has now generated 35 endorsement, which is about what the response rate would be for that sort of thing. So I'm 20 or so ahead of the acting Vice Delegate, we have an election under way for Vice Delegate, and I now have an absolute majority of WA endorsements in TNP.

Be it as it may. You did what you felt you had to do and I'm going to leave it at that.
 
Emb, I'll send either you or El E the maps, I am over it...
But this is funny...

GS, Just stop trying to justify it man...you look stupid.
When you smacked me first, blindside, I hit you back. :bat:
I don't get stepped on and take it quietly.

You made an assumption that I hadn't given enough endorsements, when in fact I've been between 98 to 100 percent of the region's WA members for quite a while (even before I became Vice Delegate some months ago.)

2 hours ago: Grosseschnauzer endorsed The Republic of Pomparomp.
2 hours ago: Grosseschnauzer endorsed The Rogue Nation of Notel Motel.
2 hours ago: Grosseschnauzer endorsed The Kingdom of New Vindola.
2 hours ago: Grosseschnauzer endorsed The Empire of Derraminaria.
2 hours ago: Grosseschnauzer endorsed The United States of Cherubiana.
2 hours ago: Grosseschnauzer endorsed The Dictatorship of A Greater German Reich.
2 hours ago: Grosseschnauzer endorsed The Republic of Jhosa.
2 hours ago: Grosseschnauzer endorsed The Empire of Cooperdooper.

I thought you said.....
That is 2% today... How on EARTH did that happen???
You endo'd over 15 yesterday and the day before to though. :clap:
:2c: That is over 40 in 3 days, since I left.... 10% that I saw and documented... :2c:

As to my history with the IDU
All apologies to the IDU. :worship:
They seem reasonable (I don't know).
GS, You attacked me for unreasonable things you made up. :clap:
So, I drug them into it as a return, based on affiliation (do on to others). :blush:
MY BAD! I can make stuff up too....but I can admit it. :P

The few unendorsements that you got were relatively few but it was designed to get you as close to at least 20 below the Delegate as quickly as possible.
GS won't work for more endos so TBONE had to move out, for FEAR!!!
:rofl: The all powerful leader then waits 7 days to even speak a word here??? :rofl:


TBone, I was waiting to hear back from as I was hoping to make sure more than one person is involved with and has access to any map files.
From WHO?
I think everybody with a brain can see how many postings we have waited for you here.
Still no decision eh? LMAO.

The IDU has successfully used maps to stimulate role play in their past, so such a plan would be helpful for both TNP and IDU.
Yup. That is why I was building one.
In addition, that is why I built the new version of NSECONOMY with:
Economic info (as usual)
Demographics (new),
Graphs (new),
Blackmarket (thanks to sunset),
And even WA reference lookups by region.

So 3 or 4 questions (and I'll even answer 1/2 for you) :
1. Who asked for that WA lookup on NSEconomy? GS.
And once I built it and used it you got MAD didn't you GS.
Maybe even goaded me into it's use eh...

2. Who Stopped the Map to make sure I lost endos? GS.
Even after he was told that he hadn't endorsed everyone.
Then he didn't go get any until after I left.... :yes:

3 So is there anything else you want to try to sell as LOGICAL there pal?
Or are you just pissed I had the power to actually drop those maps as I went...
 
Tbone, you can email me through the link in my profile.

GS, regarding the forum upload, I think the GitHub will be fine. I haven't talked to Eluvatar about it, but I know he knows how to use it (probably better than I do). I have no intention of pulling it down, and GitHub isn't the kind of place to remove things on their own (unlike an imageshack or the like). If you'd like us to use forum uploads as a backup, that's fine, too.
 
Better to have a second backup here than take any chances. Believe me, I've learned from experience, and from seeing the earlier maps at both TNP and the IDU come to a halt without anyone being able to proceed without starting over, I think some redundancy would be very prudent.
 
Ahhhh,
Love to hear my words coming from other's mouths.....
Sweet vindications.....

Emb, check your Email...
 
Just dropping in to see the new map :)


(crickets)

Maybe the energetic noobs should be embraced?
They seem to go on to build things:
http://z9.invisionfree.invalid/Unity_of_Arch/ar/t4.htm
Thanks Flem (credit to the right guy for goodness sake).
Never knew what an Endo Tart was or where that Beautiful Archipelago was prior to your Signature :)
That was a nice vacation....

For the record, I endo'd everybody else 1st after I built the system at Grosse's Behest...
"Set up. Like a bowling pin..."

Also for the record....
Nothing Changed....

Over 200 out of 450 have not endorsed the delegate.
I suggest the Party System be used to come together...
For without it, TNP doesn't have the Endos for defense...
Here is the list...(some unhappy and notable new entries guys).

| | Accelerator | Adam Zmith | | | | Alansen | | Anarchist Free Territories | | | | | Anglabeos | | | Arandra | | | Arniz | | | Ashh | Aspergian | Atauro | | Austinburke | | Awe-som-ness | | Azalhof | Azenthia | BaffaNapoli | Baile Formaid | Balance District | | | Behenaught | Bello Terra | Bet Nun | Billy-Bob-Joe-Jim | | | | | | | | Bourbon-land | Bransonland Republic | | | BrightFutures | Brisaltica | | | | | Buschgardensburg | Caenum | | | Cambronne | Camronian | | CapitainCommunist | Casma | Cbrown27 | | | | | Choni | Clartan | Confedilus | | | Coolcatland | | Corberon | | Crosseland | | Damaciaz | Deepblueindonesia | Delcovia | | | Delusional Wombats | | Denial denies denied | | Derraminaria | Deuterski | Devino Lumine | Dougergia | | Draconisus | | | Drinkmeristan | | Dunrobin1992 | Durakomar | | EAFD | | | | Eladamus | | | Endless Skies | | | | | | | | | Fartard | | | | Florisdania | | | Formerly West Russia | | | FREESON | | Friason | | Furiya | Gallifrey Too | | Gazownia | Genoani | | | Gnomenclature | God n Country n Byron | Goodkidden | GoodnessHappiness | | Grandiville | | | | Great Java | Greater Kius | | Greeva | | Grosseschnauzer | Grungia | | | | | | Hespere | | Hoffination | Ibroxavia | IceFruit | | | | | Irrationalia | | | Jadeu | | Jeffrania | Jelenski | Jhoney Gatt | Jhosa | | | | Jodensteinm | Johndonesia | JUL-US | Kannazuki | | Kasgharistan | Kellan | Kennerdale | | | | | | Klaemoria | | Krabistan | | Krooner500 | | | Lancalla | | Larrick | | Lenean Anarchists | Liberteria | | Liridon | Little Hats | | | Lonmard | | Loststudies | | | Macarronis | Macnovia | Magehunter | Malluvia | Mangocake | | | Masgarrd | | | Medieval Things | Medium to Large Dave | MegaBoom | Mehibud | | Militant Britain | Minrogad | Mintanium | | | | | | Mtdewy | Muderland | | Murdladop | Mxjsims | | Myclass | | | | | | New Archona | | New New Dutchland | | | | | | Nicholas Alexander | | Nogalia | | | Northern Sergals | Northlandsia | | Notel Motel | Nova Abitureiras | | Nueva Cascadia | NuniabeII | | Of Caltonia | | | | | Orwellos | | | | | Partistheria | | | Peniscund | Philippadom | | Phoras | Poester | Pomparomp | Port Stone | Prepboyzack | | | PTWA | | Pyce | | Qert Hdasa | Qualus-Elisi | Qucourt | | | Random Coincidences | Raxtichistan | Raxxx | | | | Rexel Rinds | Rhazlar | | Robotron 2 point 0 | | Roman Inverclyde | Romave | | RulingForJC | Ryan2 | | | Sbalaban | | Schimmelhorn | Schlegel Islands | Schmidtopolis | Schmidtzenburg | | | | | Senicius | | Sertainment | | Shin Wha | Shinrei8889 | | | Slickomalia | Slivkavia | Socialist Gaia | | | | | | | Space Military Government | | | | | Starzozia | | Sunshinedawn | | | | | | | Tackaraxia | | Tamil Desam | | | Tehrar | | Tembion | | Tepalcatlalpan | | | The Alder | The BlackRod | | The Duck Deity | | The Folding Chair | The Kuzonoha | | | The Pragmatic Voles of Plint | | | | | | The Veiled Phoenix | | | | | | Tnurnbtania | Tobiath | Tonaia | | | | Tutmop | Tvontheradio | | Tweegee | Tyrassueb | | | Unkempt Hippies | | | Utah109 | | | | | VeCinu21 | | Velekium | | | | Victor Headbangers | Vinchester | Vinchistan | | | Wabana | | Weeyland | Whans | | | | Winistanshire | | Wolpiz | Wood Pigeons | Xiubu | | | Yardley Hastings | | Zerbistan | | Zrk2 | |


Coming together means you too Grosse...
 
Pas, I appreciate the invitation and time taken to do so.

I would be happy to be a foreign envoy and continue my TNP involvement.
That way I will not be eligible for RA membership, nor will I have any influence on endorsements.
Those who were concerned about my "POWERS" will have nothing to fear...
 
The IDU and EID portions of the map are just about finalized. You can view the (very large) PNG flat projection here. You can also download a Google Earth overlay here, which allows you to see the entire globe on a spherical surface. The entire project is being kept up-to-date on GitHub, where you can find the latest versions of the above files and the source SVG file.

As far as TNP, it might be a bit longer. This quarter has not been going particularly well for me, academically, so I may need to focus some more time on that. I will make an effort to work on this, as long as it doesn't interfere with my education. Of course, if anyone wants to make suggestions or even go ahead and edit the file itself, feel free.

If you have any questions or comments on the project, you can ask them here, TG me, or find me on #NSGlobe on irc.esper.net.
 
Classic! Priceless! Ah hah hah hah!

Emb, good luck in your studies this semester.
You are right; that IS more important.

GROSSE:
Only 2 days left on the Schnauzer Chowder Special...and the world hands me a special?!?!?!
Schnauzer States, Schnauzer Homeland, Grosseschnauzer, Schnauzer Dominions, & Purple Schnauzers???
:rofl:

Everybody fall in, you get the lands to the North West of the Atlantic LOL
All that map stuff from TNP history (LOL) GONE!!!
WAD's on the map 5x, but the rest of you can wait....
:rofl:
 
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