Motion to suspend diplomatic relations

Flemingovia

Flemingovia

TNPer
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My fellow Assembly members.

Forum destruction is among the most heinous crimes in Nationstates. It destroys histories, hundreds of hours of work and debate, and damages communities. It is petty, vindictive and injurious not to any particular cause, but to the game of Nationstates itself.

Those who engage in such actions rightly have the condemnation of the wider NS community, particularly through the COPS treaty. It is my further opinion that those who harbour those who destroy forums ought to feel the contempt of the Nationstates world.

Fellow Assembly members, Rougier, who goes under the names The Republic of Rougier the Outcast, The Defender Killing Machine of Rougiers, The Empire of Rougiers II, The Commonwealth of Rougiers III, The Federation of Rougiers IV, The Commonwealth of Rougiers Prime is currently seeking refuge in the regions of Arsenal, Unknown, and Lone Wolves United following his destructive attacks on the forums of Council of Narnia and CoJ.

Currently Lone Wolves United has diplomatic relations with us. While I have great respect for that region, I feel that while they give assylum to Rougier it would be inappropriate for us to continue such relations.

I therefore propose to the Assembly:

1. that diplomatic relations with Lone Wolves Unites be suspended, the diplomatic status of their ambassadors be revoked and their embassies closed until such time as their sheltering of Rougier in their region is ended.

2. That this practice be extended to any other region that knowingly gives shelter to Rougier.

3. That this sanction be ended automatically and without further Regional Assembly vote once Rougier is expelled from Lone Wolves United.


Flemingovia
 
Just to add, a number of regions are considering the appropriate response to this episode of forum crashing. TWP are considering image-bombing the forum of the instigator region.

This is my suggestion for a response from TNP.
 
I have to seriously wonder what some elsewhere are thinking when their proposed response to forum destruction is "image bombing."

That does not sound like a responsible response to the incident at hand.

I understand the intent behind what Flem is proposing, but who are we trying yo pressure, or punish? What are we trying to convey by our actions, and are these the best devices we have to achieve them?

I think these are questions we'd better have answers for first, and not later, or not at all.
 
I seriously doubt our ability to "pressure" or "punish" anyone. LWU are entirely at liberty to persue whatever policies they wish. But we are at liberty not to associate with them while they give assylum to Rougiers. That is what I am suggesting.

A man once offered his seat to a lady on a bus (this is a british illustration, so may be lost on some of you). She rounded on him, and started shouting at him for being sexist, offering her a seat just because she was a lady. "Madam" he replied, "I do not offer you the seat because you are a lady. I do so because I am a gentleman."

It is less to do with LWU, and more to do with us. There is little we can do, directly, and I do not want to go down the same line as TWP. We have no military to speak of. This would be a symbolic action (as most diplomatic actions are) which would register our disapproval. The region of Lone Wolves United is the one region where our interests intersect with Rougier. Were any other region which has an embassy with us involved, I would be suggesting the same happen to them.
 
Blue wolf:
*Yawns*

Rougier is not nor has ever been a Lone Wolves United member.

Thank you *bows*
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Never claimed he was. Read my original post. The motion was prompted by the residence of Rougier(s) in that region.
 
Rougier, in his painfully open-to-the-public application to Lone Wolves United, only claimed one puppet, Abattoir Corporation, which has indeed moved out of region.

Lone Wolves United can't be held responsible for random look alike nation's, we'd require proof that this "Rougier the Outcast" is indeed who you say he is. We can't independently verify that claim ourselves, what with us having a notoriously lazy Intelligence Agency, so I'm afraid that we're going to have to let this free spirit be and probably CTE in 22 more days.
 
I do have to agree with Eluvatar and Gracius Maximus. For the interest of other Members who may not have knowledge about the event in question beyond the countless back-and-forth accusations and the like, is there a chance the Regional Assembly can see links or other documents for the record?
 
Dali: I will look towards putting together links needed. THe basic one is in the "nationstates discussion" section of this forum, but i note that in his application to join Lone Wolves United, helpfully linked by Blue Wolf, Rougiers himself says:

Defender experience: For the last three weeks or so, up until about yesterday, I was operating as the Chief Crusader of the Crusaders of Justice and a member of the Council of Narnia's Imperial Army as part of an intelligence operation. I have since crippled these organizations, and returned to active duty for the good guys.
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Blue Wolf: You said:

Rougier, in his painfully open-to-the-public application to Lone Wolves United, only claimed one puppet, Abattoir Corporation, which has indeed moved out of region.

Lone Wolves United can't be held responsible for random look alike nation's, we'd require proof that this "Rougier the Outcast" is indeed who you say he is. We can't independently verify that claim ourselves, what with us having a notoriously lazy Intelligence Agency, so I'm afraid that we're going to have to let this free spirit be and probably CTE in 22 more days.
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All I can say is that if Regional Assembly members believe that Rougier the Outcast is not a nation controlled by the player who destroyed the CoN forum and wiped as much as he could of the CoJ forum, then they are at liberty to vote against my proposal.

I for one have no doubts.
 
If he is ejected from LWU or any region, do you suspend relations with The Rejected Realms then?
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Of course not. The RR has not choice, since it has no banject button.

And Dali, as Blue Wolf points out the evidence you seek is on the LWU forums and can be viewed by guests. Pertinent are the screenshots Joshua posts and this one from Rougiers:

Rougiers:
I didn't hack any forums. I just badly abused the admin power that was given to me by a few assclowns desperate enough to do so.
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May I officially ask the speaker when this seconded motion will be moved to the formal discussion / voting stage?

There is a danger that, in true TNP fashion, by the time this gets to a vote it will only be of interest to historians.
 
I have two concerns"

1. I wonder if this motion punishes LWU more than the actual culprit as written; and
2. I wonder why this wasn't taken to the CLO to propose and thereby allow the CLO to clear the way for an emergency vote?
 
1. If you can find a way of punishing the culprit, I would be all for it. My question to the justices paves the way for an IP ban on this forum, which is about the only way possible.

Let me use an analogy: In the real world diplomatic sanctions are regularly used against states who provide a refuge for war criminals. In order to make the NS world a safer place, potential forum crashers need to know that their ability to play the game will be crippled thereafter, and regions that provide a refuge for forum crashers need to know that they will be pariah so long as they do so.

2. BEcause I did not think of it. Besides which, the RA needs something to get its teeth into.
 
You do realize that Lone Wolves United had nothing to do with the forum destruction, we've long taken a neutral stance on the subject, we're not harboring Rougie, and this whole proposition is basically a overblown show intended to spark activity, right Gov?
 
Blue Wolf II:
You do realize that Lone Wolves United had nothing to do with the forum destruction, we've long taken a neutral stance on the subject, we're not harboring Rougie, and this whole proposition is basically a overblown show intended to spark activity, right Gov?
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Then explain the nation that's still in the region known as Rougier and when he applied to your forum for citizenship or whatever.

If you don't support forum destruction I expect you to make your stance perfectly clear showing that, period.
 
me on 1st July:
May I officially ask the speaker when this seconded motion will be moved to the formal discussion / voting stage?

There is a danger that, in true TNP fashion, by the time this gets to a vote it will only be of interest to historians.
Click to expand...

:bump: :bump: :bump:
 
Blue Wold clearly has a conflict of interest here and LWU is clearly knowingly providing cover to this criminal. There is no way that this nation could have possibly been created by anyone other than the culprit.

Also note that LWU membership is not necessarily dependent upon the member being present in their region as there were times when both Scardino and Evil Wolf were not physically present in the region, not to mention the many supposed 'under the radar' members. In all likelihood, half of the members of Nazi Europe are also members.

If the government fails to at least censure Lone Wolves United in some way, it will have shown itself to be utterly spineless or fatally apathetic.
 
if it please the RA I formally withdraw this motion. Not because my feelings on the issue have in any way changed, but the length of time that has elapsed makes pursuit of this mater absurd.
 
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