Special Update of Forum Destruction

Knockavale

Knockavale

TNPer
Ladies and Gentlemen of Nationstates;

The Arch Chancellor of the Founderless Regions Alliance releases this special statement regarding the nation Rougiers. On the 20th June 2010, this nation callously destroyed the forums of the Crusaders of Justice and deleted every topic on the forum of the Council of Narnia. Rougiers has since been confirmed as an agent from the region of Unknown.

Forum destruction is a devious act. It critically damages the community of a region for little strategic gain without regard for the people therein. The region of Unknown, who appear unable to adequately perform on the battlefield, find it acceptable to use forum destruction as a legitimate espionage tactic. They then have the indecency to insult both the Council of Narnia and Crusaders of Justice by claiming the mission a success.

FRA Intelligence has held administrative and moderation powers over many raider regions - some of the biggest in the game - including Unknown and their predecessors. Yet The FRA has never endorsed or partaken in such an illegitimate tactic as forum destruction. The FRA respects the rights of all NationStates communities to exist and maintain their sovereignty without compromise, and instills such values and regulation in it's agents. In the event of any FRA agent or member committing the crimes of the nation of Rougiers, the subsequent disciplinary consequences would be severe.

Unknown will no doubt argue that they have little control over the actions of their agents- I wish to pre-empt this point. In running espionage operations Unknown carry the responsibility of their agents, in as much as the FRA does with it's own agents and Rangers. The inability of senior officials of Unknown to control their agents is unacceptable.

In light of this, I see only two conditions for justice to be adequately served; the issuing of a full apology by Unknown on behalf of their agent, and the rejection of Rougiers, who they are currently sheltering and reinstating, from both their community and region. This can be done by banning Rougiers from their forum and region in the manner that countless regions have already done without pressure or request. The FRA commends and thanks these regions for doing as such.

Considering Rougier's banning and/or awaiting trial in countless defender, raider and neutral regions in light of his violation of the COPs treaty, the FRA finds it absolutely astonishing that Unknown consider it acceptable to allow Rougiers to continue to reside in their region. The FRA firmly believe that this event transcends the defender-raider sphere, as shown by the countless messages of goodwill that the Council of Narnia has received.

The FRA hopes that the NationStates community, regardless of whether invader, defender, neutral or otherwise continues to shun the region of Unknown, its members, and the nation of Rougiers until it denounces these actions and punishes the individuals responsible.

Thank you for your attention in this grave matter.

Regards,

Cocodian
Arch Chancellor of the FRA
 
Is this the same player who has the nation "Rougier the Outcast" who resides in Lone Wolves United?

Edit: From a post in their RMB it appears so.
 
What regions is he currently banned from, and awaiting trial?

From what I understand, Unknown has been frustrated with the lack of balance, or lack of sportsmanship some defenders have been giving, and as a result Unknown is slowly reverting to tactics of the Aeazen Combine.

From what I've spoken to Savaer, as he's outside of the military game a good friend of mine, he admits what Rougiers done was excessive collateral damage when he went rogue but he apparently won't budge on banjecting him for what he did.

Forum destruction is immoral and completely out of line. Regardless if you don't like a region's military, that doesn't mean pinning the blame on the whole region as a result.

This is troubling.
 
I am glad to see that the act of forum destruction is still a condemnable offense in this day and age. It disturbs and disgusts me, as one who campaigned against the tactic four years ago in the Red Liberty Alliance when The Red Factions destroyed invader forums, to see that such acts continue.

Saying that, although I am certainly not up to speed on the situation, and I encourage relevant parties to update us on the actual happenings of the events that took place, regional forum administrators must be vigilant and careful as to who they allow privileges within their own forums. I know that most major regions (including The North Pacific) maintain strict guidelines and procedures as to who may access the administration panel of the forum, but frankly it should be a common sense thing: if you do not know someone, don't give them access regardless of what they are offering. Test them out for a while to see if they are friendly or a threat, and then only give them access in small increments if it is absolutely required.

Various groups, and I am not pointing my finger at invaders directly as everyone knows that defenders (such as the example I listed in my introduction) have done it as well, prey on these mistakes. It is sad and rather childish that they do this. From an intelligence perspective I have no qualms about having operatives gain access to key areas of a forum in order to find out information and feed it back to their home organizations. Yet... when one destroys a forum, they castrate a community. It is the acts of children who can not comprehend their actions who undertake these means.

Also, as an aside, it is nice to see you again, Knockavale! I hope you come by here more often.
 
Note: The above post was made by myself, as I forgot I was still logged in as The Voting Booth and not as Dalimbar. Forgive the inconsistency.
 
Yes you would be correct. Hopefully he will in fact be cast out.
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I am not so sure of that. From my memory Evil Wolf argued both here and in TWP against the COPS treaty, and I do not think LWU signed it. I would doubt he will do anything. But i would be happy to be proven wrong.
 
Let's not forget that TNP not only approved the COPS treaty, we adopted criminal law provisions that fully implemented it:
Section 5 of TNP Law 22:
Section 5. Crashing, Phishing, or Spamming
A. Definitions
As used in this Section:
“Crashing” refers to any unauthorized action which could cause a forum to go out of service or lose information, including the deletion of posts, the deletion of a forum, spamming, or any other act of such kind.
“Forum” refers to the official offsite forums of The North Pacific.
“Off-site property” refers to any forums, websites or Wiki pages owned or maintained by resident citizens of The North Pacific, or any other Nationstates nation, organization or region, outside of nationstates.net.
“Phishing” refers to any attempts to gain access to off-site property controls or passwords by deception, especially by posing as administrators or moderators for any unauthorized use. This includes the collection of personal information kept at the Forum.
“Spamming” refers to any action undertaken by non-region nationals to waste space on the Forum forums or to cause forums other off-site property to crash. This includes any attempts to force a DOS error on forums and any attempts to flood the RMB of a region which is not that nation’s normal abode.
B. Prohibited Acts
1. All forms of forum crashing, spamming and phishing are prohibited and may be punished as criminal acts.
2. No Nation of The North Pacific may order, condone, or accept as legal, those acts prohibited by Clause 1 of this subsection.
3. Punishment for the commission of these prohibited acts may include any penalty deemed appropriate by law, including ejection or banning by the Delegate, or restrictions or banning by official forum administration, or both.
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interestingly, as I read it, law 22 only covers forum destruction undertaken against THIS forum:

“Forum” refers to the official offsite forums of The North Pacific.
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So if Rougier/Rougiers came here he would be welcomed, legally, with open arms.
 
Keep in mind that the language of Law 22 on phishing and crashing is broader than the provisions on destruction, so if a puppet of a forum crasher were resident in TNP, they could be reached by the phishing and crashing provisions, even though those acts were only be a component of an act of destruction of an "off site property."

As I recall, there was an effort from several directions to make the amendment of Law 22 as broad as could be done within our constitutional system and the requirements of the COPS treaty.

If nothing else it does establish TNP's position on such conduct, wherever it occurs.
 
Thanks for all your responses, i will get back to you with our next moves on the issue and hopefully you can get involved.
 
flemingovia:
Yes you would be correct. Hopefully he will in fact be cast out.
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I am not so sure of that. From my memory Evil Wolf argued both here and in TWP against the COPS treaty, and I do not think LWU signed it. I would doubt he will do anything. But i would be happy to be proven wrong.
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EW denied his request to join LWU, and said that a future application would be considered if it was accompanied by an apology for forum-crashing.
 
Well, well, well, what do we have here? Let me save myself considerable time and effort and simply re-post verbatim what I have already said in The West Pacific.

Wolf: DemiGod of the Two Updates:
Rougiers' not a member of Lone Wolves, he's only a member on the forum. He applied for military status and due to the overwhelming support against by our own troops we were forced to turn him down until he issues an apology for his actions.

He has not been banned from the Untied's forums because we are not signatures of C.O.P.S. and have no obligation to do so. We welcome all members of NS, regardless of reputation, to take part in civil conversation on our private Regional Forums. ^_^.
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Edit: This post made more sense before Blue Wolf edited out the bit in his post where he accused me of making "serious allegations against him without checking with him first........

Serious allegations? What serious allegations? Let's look at what I have actually said, and whether I needed to check them with you:

In my first post on this topic I asked:

Is this the same player who has the nation "Rougier the Outcast" who resides in Lone Wolves United?

Edit: From a post in their RMB
Click to expand...

That was ascertained by a simple name search on "rougier" and a look at the LWU RMB at the time. It is not an allegation - it is a fact.

I am not so sure of that. From my memory Evil Wolf argued both here and in TWP against the COPS treaty, and I do not think LWU signed it. I would doubt he will do anything. But i would be happy to be proven wrong.
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I made it clear that my post was based on my recollection. Searching a bit through old threads shows that my memory was not false. If you do not agree with the COPS treaty, then why is this a "serious allegation".

My own PERSONAL opinion is that those who engage in Forum destruction should be ostracised from the NS community - and that includes not being welcome on forums or in regions that wish to have a claim to respectability. that is entirely my own opinion, and from your post above it is clear you have a different opinion. that is fair enough.
 
The serious allegations involve you attempting to shut down the LWU Embassy for Rougier's "membership". But I thought it was too dramatic to post that here so I addressed it in that other topic you started on the matter.

Other than that let me entertain you with the usual banter.

*blah, blah blah*In matters of LWU affairs *skips a page* the region's members make the decisions *flips to the good part* they chose not to allow Rougier to become a member of the region *flips some more* my opinion was inconsequential in their ruling *yada yada yada*. Cue end reel!
 
The serious allegations involve you attempting to shut down the LWU Embassy for Rougier's "membership". But I thought it was too dramatic to post that here so I addressed it in that other topic you started on the matter.

Other than that let me entertain you with the usual banter.

*blah, blah blah*In matters of LWU affairs *skips a page* the region's members make the decisions *flips to the good part* they chose not to allow Rougier to become a member of the region *flips some more* my opinion was inconsequential in their ruling *yada yada yada*. Cue end reel!
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Why do you put the term "membership" in inverted commas? I never used that word. Terms I used were "resides in" and in another thread "give assylum to" and "seeking refuge in"

I never claimed that Rougiers was a member of LWU, simply that he resided in the region.
 
Even that's silly. Forcing regions, under threat of total suspension of diplomatic relations, to ban generic throwaway puppets is a wee bit over-the-top. *Does his best Howie Carr impression* How many more, Mr. Speaker, how many more?
 
Even that's silly. Forcing regions, under threat of total suspension of diplomatic relations, to ban generic throwaway puppets is a wee bit over-the-top. *Does his best Howie Carr impression* How many more, Mr. Speaker, how many more?
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Actually, compared to what other regions are doing or contemplating, that response is quite moderate. It is one of the few avenues open to TNP to display it's distaste towards this individual.
 
Or for individuals with hidden agendas to express their dissatisfaction towards certain regions either it seems.

Not that this statement is related to anything we're talking about, I'm just saying.
 
If you are talking about me my only agenda here is a deep distaste of forum destruction, those who perpetrate it, and those who shelter those who do.

But since it is not related to anything we are talking about, it cannot be me you are thinking of. :w00t:
 
flemingovia:
If you are talking about me my only agenda here is a deep distaste of forum destruction, those who perpetrate it, and those who shelter those who do.
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Well, that's funny, I've never heard much of an objection when Lone Wolves United allowed Meridian to keep a puppet in region.

*sings* Must be a sign of the times.
 
well, Personally I will admit to have got a bit more hardline than I used to be about forum destruction. Also, I cannot remember who Meridian is/was.
 
flemingovia:
interestingly, as I read it, law 22 only covers forum destruction undertaken against THIS forum:

“Forum” refers to the official offsite forums of The North Pacific.
Click to expand...

So if Rougier/Rougiers came here he would be welcomed, legally, with open arms.
Click to expand...
Then it should be updated.

Well Rougiers was reprimanded, where he will be banned from Unknown if he does it again, and is essentially punished to doing grunt work as a way of being "reformed". They apparently like him and think he does good work, so he's being allowed to stay.

Meanwhile, he also has citizenship in New Britannian Empire and elsewhere.

His supporters then counter that Saudi Burmia, who committed forum destruction against Unknown colony region Prussia Reborn, is still allowed in the region Renaissance, Seymour in The Kodiak Republic, and Leonardo the Magnificent in The Dominion.

Apparently to them, destroying forums against defender regions is ok, but not raider regions :eyeroll:

Follow up further than that, multiple regions just recently got hit with pr0n spam attacks - The United Kingdom, Equinox, FRA, Region Inc., Global Right Alliance, Hampshire, and others......

My stance will never chance on porn spamming a region as well as forum destruction. Regardless of the region's military alignment, it is still wrong and immoral, and the perpetrators should always be tried and banned upon successful conviction. It's immoral and it takes the NS military game way too far.
 
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