Tormin

Eluvatar

Eluvatar

TNPer
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Pronouns
he/him/his
TNP Nation
Zemnaya Svoboda
Discord
Eluvatar#8517
Tormin refused to abide by the terms of his Warning.

He has been ejected to clear his endorsements. He has not been banned, and is welcome to return to the region after the update.
 
Actually, I am only over the 150 limit by 3 endorsements. There are many people with far more endorsements and I have been at a higher endorsement count in the past. Until recently, the number of endorsements I held was 165.

I am not willing to "leave the region" and then have to re-endorse the nations that currently have my endorsement. I have been sitting in the region at the same endorsement count for several months with no interest in the delegacy.

May I also suggest that I am not a member of the Regional Assembly, and therefore not subject to the laws it may pass. If the delegate wishes me to leave the region, he will have to use his influence and "ban" me.
 
Tormin:
May I also suggest that I am not a member of the Regional Assembly, and therefore not subject to the laws it may pass. If the delegate wishes me to leave the region, he will have to use his influence and "ban" me.
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That's not how it works. TNP is subject to TNP's laws, funnily enough.
 
Sydia:
That's not how it works. TNP is subject to TNP's laws, funnily enough.
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On this point I cannot agree. Your constitution only accords authority over signatur nations. I am not a member of the Regional Assembly and do not recognize its constitution or it laws.

Tormin is neither a threat to the region nor a competitor for the delegacy. I have never endo-tarted, subverted the delegacy, or concerned myself in the least with the activities of the regional govermnent. The regional assembly really should not concern itself with me.
 
Tormin:
Sydia:
That's not how it works. TNP is subject to TNP's laws, funnily enough.
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On this point I cannot agree. Your constitution only accords authority over signatur nations. I am not a member of the Regional Assembly and do not recognize its constitution or it laws.

Tormin is neither a threat to the region nor a competitor for the delegacy. I have never endo-tarted, subverted the delegacy, or concerned myself in the least with the activities of the regional govermnent. The regional assembly really should not concern itself with me.
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That's a negatory, good buddy. The RA is simply our legislative body. The laws of TNP apply to the entire region.

That's like arguing that the laws of the US only apply to members of congress.

Actually, a more apt comparison would be saying that laws don't apply to you because you haven't registered to vote.
 
Sydia:
That's like arguing that the laws of the US only apply to members of congress.
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I was thinking more along the lines of arguing that the laws of the United States do not apply to Canada, Mexico, Belize, etc (despite your Congress representing the United States of AMERICA.) Now, if a country were to join the United States of America through signing of its constitution, it would then be bound by those laws. (This does not stop the government of the USA from occasionally acting outside its jurisdiction though it has no legal basis for doing so.)

Again, a region and a government body are two seperate things. I am a member of the North Pacific but not any regional government or legislative body. I was a member of the region before the current government came into being. When I joined the region, a different government existed. I was neithor a supporter of that government nor your resistence against that government. I am also not a supporter of this government.
 
Tormin:
Sydia:
That's like arguing that the laws of the US only apply to members of congress.
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I was thinking more along the lines of arguing that the laws of the United States do not apply to Canada, Mexico, Belize, etc (despite your Congress representing the United States of AMERICA.) Now, if a country were to join the United States of America through signing of its constitution, it would then be bound by those laws. (This does not stop the government of the USA from occasionally acting outside its jurisdiction though it has no legal basis for doing so.)

Again, a region and a government body are two seperate things. I am a member of the North Pacific but not any regional government or legislative body. I was a member of the region before the current government came into being. When I joined the region, a different government existed. I was neithor a supporter of that government nor your resistence against that government. I am also not a supporter of this government.
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I'm not an American.

You're in The North Pacific. It stands to reason that you obey the laws of The North Pacific. Your analogy would only work if we were after you for breaking the laws of TNP in another region where the government of TNP holds no jurisdiction.

The region of TNP and the government of TNP are two separate entities in the same way the US and the US government are, continuing the analogy. It still doesn't give a private citizen (or, in this case, a nation in TNP) carte blanche to do whatever they like. That way anarchy lies.
 
Tormin:
I was thinking more along the lines of arguing that the laws of the United States do not apply to Canada, Mexico, Belize, etc (despite your Congress representing the United States of AMERICA.) Now, if a country were to join the United States of America through signing of its constitution, it would then be bound by those laws. (This does not stop the government of the USA from occasionally acting outside its jurisdiction though it has no legal basis for doing so.)

Again, a region and a government body are two seperate things. I am a member of the North Pacific but not any regional government or legislative body. I was a member of the region before the current government came into being. When I joined the region, a different government existed. I was neithor a supporter of that government nor your resistence against that government. I am also not a supporter of this government.
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This is like Puerto Rico arguing that it shouldn't be subject to Constitution and that only full states should be.

Just because you did not agree to obey them does not mean you have any right to ignore them, either. This region has a government that is currently operating, and in addition that government is currently in control over it. The only way you could change that is by attempting to take over and oust the government... Which, frankly, is about as likely to happen as the thought of me turning seventeen shades of magenta before using a bad case of gas to put myself in a geosynchronous orbit.

No one is claiming that you have to like the rules... but they are claiming that you have to obey them. Given you could be outright banned from the region and the regional government has a lot of support keeping it in place, I would think it would be logical to either, as the saying goes, play ball or get off the grass.
 
Even if I concede that Tormin is bound by the laws of the North Pacific, it stands that I have violated no laws. I am over the newly established endorsement cap by 3 endorsements. If the honorable members present would be so kind as to withdraw their endorsements, all will be well.
 
Tormin:
Even if I concede that Tormin is bound by the laws of the North Pacific, it stands that I have violated no laws. I am over the newly established endorsement cap by 3 endorsements. If the honorable members present would be so kind as to withdraw their endorsements, all will be well.
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"# 104 minutes ago: Tormin endorsed The Rogue Nation of Nobutyeahbutno.
# 104 minutes ago: Tormin endorsed The Free Land of Techno Island.
# 104 minutes ago: Tormin endorsed The Oppressed Peoples of Rhaan.
# 104 minutes ago: Tormin endorsed The United Socialist States of Victorious Eurasia.
# 104 minutes ago: Tormin endorsed The Republic of Crysta blue.
# 104 minutes ago: Tormin withdrew its endorsement from The Soyedinyonniyi Schtati of Zemnaya Svoboda."
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Yes, very unsuspicious.
 
I don't know that anything I say will make any difference. I also imagine I may be banned once the honorable delegate logs in and sees that I rejoined the region with 153 endorsements. Still, I make no apology. Your regional governmernt does not represent my interests and has no right to say how many endorsements I can have.
 
Does the delegate's ability to eject and/or ban nations apply to you? Yes. Is this ability the ultimate mechanism for enforcing laws such as this? Yes. Therefore, do those laws apply to you? Yes.

May be completely unfair, you may not agree with them or never did or never signed off on them, but they can be enforced upon you, therefore in any argument that actually matters, they apply to you.
 
Heft:
Does the delegate's ability to eject and/or ban nations apply to you? Yes. Is this ability the ultimate mechanism for enforcing laws such as this? Yes. Therefore, do those laws apply to you? Yes.
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This is correct. By the fact that you reside in the region and have less Influence than the Delegate, the Delegate's authority applies to you by default. The Regional Assembly merely determines how that authority is to be applied. The only way to escape from such authority is to relocate to a region where ejection does not exist: That is, Lazarus or the Rejected Realms.
 
Sorry Stormin' Tormin but as long as the Delegate upholds the laws of the Regional Assembly and has the capacity to act on them then they apply to everyone in the region. Whether you like it or not. Enjoy Kandys barbecue.
 
Sydia:
If you don't like The North Pacific then you can git out!
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I like the North Pacific and would prefer to stay. I admit that I may have written somewhat harshly in my comments yesterday, but I will abide by the laws of the region although I do not agree with them.

One thing that drew me to the North Pacific was that there was no endorsement cap and no threats of banning. I really hate being "intimidated" with threats of banning. I was here before that law was put into place, and it kills me to now have to make sure that I don't exceed some artificial cap that has now been put in place.
 
Eluvatar:
Being told to "go f*** yourself" in a recent telegram by Tormin was surprising.
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My apologies to the delegate. It was a very bad day at the office and I then discovered that I had been removed from the region. I did not realize at the time that I had not been banned. Not an excuse, I am sure, but still the reason I wrote what I did.
 
Tormin:
Sydia:
If you don't like The North Pacific then you can git out!
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I like the North Pacific and would prefer to stay. I admit that I may have written somewhat harshly in my comments yesterday, but I will abide by the laws of the region although I do not agree with them.

One thing that drew me to the North Pacific was that there was no endorsement cap and no threats of banning. I really hate being "intimidated" with threats of banning. I was here before that law was put into place, and it kills me to now have to make sure that I don't exceed some artificial cap that has now been put in place.
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We unfortunately had to implement a rough cap due to the war declared upon us by multiple regions.

It's still tied for most generous cap in the game.

Besides, you were warned and asked not to continue gathering endorsements. You continued.

That was that.
 
You know, you should get these tarters to try it on in The Pacific. They'll learn the true meaning of banjecting there.
 
I recall sending Tormin a couple of TGs during my last delegacy. At that time, I found his response satisfactory, and I did not consider his endorsement count a threat to regional security. As times and circumstances change, with the added vulnerablilty of a delegacy transfer and the spectre of war on the horizon, the region's security needs are increased.

While we are a region that values the individual nation's right to play as he wishes, it must be balanced with the collective need for stability and security.

It would be nice if Tormin would agree to stop gathering endorsements until the current crisis has passed. I believe anyone with enough time and interest to engage in endorsement swapping, may enjoy some of the other things TNP has to offer, and may be able to make a positive contribution to the region. I don't think it's such a big thing to hold off on endorsing new nations for a time, especially when it is for the good of the region.
 
Great Bights Mum:
I recall sending Tormin a couple of TGs during my last delegacy. At that time, I found his response satisfactory, and I did not consider his endorsement count a threat to regional security. As times and circumstances change, with the added vulnerablilty of a delegacy transfer and the spectre of war on the horizon, the region's security needs are increased.

While we are a region that values the individual nation's right to play as he wishes, it must be balanced with the collective need for stability and security.

It would be nice if Tormin would agree to stop gathering endorsements until the current crisis has passed. I believe anyone with enough time and interest to engage in endorsement swapping, may enjoy some of the other things TNP has to offer, and may be able to make a positive contribution to the region. I don't think it's such a big thing to hold off on endorsing new nations for a time, especially when it is for the good of the region.
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:tb2:

If you are ever uncertain of the best course of action, stop for a second, take a deep breath, and think to yourself "What would GBM do?". More than likely, you'll have your answer.
 
If you don't mind my curiosity, Tormin, I've always wondered about the rationale for endorsement-swapping. People have said a lot of things in the past, but it's almost always been a cover for some sort of invasion or revolutionary intent. You, however, appear to be telling the truth about your benign intent.

So, I ask: What is the appeal of endorsement-swapping for you? Since you do not intend to be Delegate, the only real function of endorsements, why do you feel that having endorsements is so valuable that your presence in the North Pacific depends upon them? This isn't a rhetorical question; I'm genuinely curious about the rationale here.
 
Don't know about Tormin but I just thought it was the idea to get a decent score and get off minnow. Must be the competitive gene in me.
 
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Kandarin:
If you don't mind my curiosity, Tormin, I've always wondered about the rationale for endorsement-swapping. People have said a lot of things in the past, but it's almost always been a cover for some sort of invasion or revolutionary intent. You, however, appear to be telling the truth about your benign intent.

So, I ask: What is the appeal of endorsement-swapping for you? Since you do not intend to be Delegate, the only real function of endorsements, why do you feel that having endorsements is so valuable that your presence in the North Pacific depends upon them? This isn't a rhetorical question; I'm genuinely curious about the rationale here.
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Honestly, never gave it any thought. Endorsement swapping seems like a waste of time unless you are after the delegacy. But, in this case I am not an endorsement swapper. I offer a few endorsements here and there and have gathered a few from those who offer them.

I have never had any expectation of getting over 200 endorsements but maybe in another six months or a year having some small influence in the region. Maybe then I WILL TAKE THE DELEGACY (chuckle) but then everyone will be playing NS2 not NS1.

"Don't know about Tormin but I just thought it was the idea to get a decent score and get off minnow. Must be the competitive gene in me. " Exactly what I thought as well.
 
Tormin:
I have never had any expectation of getting over 200 endorsements but maybe in another six months or a year having some small influence in the region. Maybe then I WILL TAKE THE DELEGACY (chuckle) but then everyone will be playing NS2 not NS1.
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This is not so funny when it actually happens.
 
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