Motion to declare the reelection null and void.

Felasia

Felasia

TNPer
Under the constitution, the reelection were unconstitutional since the speaker or the CLO does not have the power to organize the re-election. Therefore, I propose that the regional assembly votes to declared the re-election result null and void and votes to hold a new round of voting for WA Delegate and for the CLO position with a new election commissioner who should be the member of the court. I also propose that the new round only be 3 days in length and that no new candidates will be accepted so only current candidates can run for the position.
 
Yes, because that would effect the outcome a great deal. Give it a rest. Nobody cares.

Edit: Ha! This is a joke, right? Almost had me there!
 
Of course, the fact that the legitimacy of this election can be question is nothing to be worry about. Like HC said "Constitution when convenient."
 
Felasia:
Of course, the fact that the legitimacy of this election can be question is nothing to be worry about. Like HC said "Constitution when convenient."
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This is a matter for the courts. But if the members of the assembly truly feel that this constitutional matter warrants overruling the court, then I'll call a vote.
 
mr_sniffles:
Felasia:
Of course, the fact that the legitimacy of this election can be question is nothing to be worry about. Like HC said "Constitution when convenient."
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This is a matter for the courts. But if the members of the assembly truly feel that this constitutional matter warrants overruling the court, then I'll call a vote.
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And the court, [sarcasm]in all it infinite wisdom[/sarcasm], decided that they can't make a decision because the constitution prohibited them to do that. Something that have a guts to admitted that they can't. So I feel it's necessary that the point need to be address by other body of TNP.
 
Felasia:
mr_sniffles:
Felasia:
Of course, the fact that the legitimacy of this election can be question is nothing to be worry about. Like HC said "Constitution when convenient."
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This is a matter for the courts. But if the members of the assembly truly feel that this constitutional matter warrants overruling the court, then I'll call a vote.
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And the court, [sarcasm]in all it infinite wisdom[/sarcasm], decided that they can't make a decision because the constitution prohibited them to do that. Something that have a guts to admitted that they can't. So I feel it's necessary that the point need to be address by other body of TNP.
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Show me that ruling.
 
Man you guys would put what colour of Lucky Charms to eat first in your breakfast to vote if you had the authority.

This is so redundant it's scary. By the time this vote is passed, there will only be 3 days left in the current election, and the election organizer doesn't have an influence on the outcome, why can't we just agree to bypass it this time for the sake of sanity and get on with things?
 
Falconias:
Man you guys would put what colour of Lucky Charms to eat first in your breakfast to vote if you had the authority.

This is so redundant it's scary. By the time this vote is passed, there will only be 3 days left in the current election, and the election organizer doesn't have an influence on the outcome, why can't we just agree to bypass it this time for the sake of sanity and get on with things?
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Because that would make sense.
 
I find it funny only two people are crying foul about the constitution being subverted, while the rest of the region doesn't think it has been.

Again, if it takes having this vote just to show the solidarity in the region, with the exception of Messrs Felasia and Haor Chall, then so be it.
 
I also disagree with this situation, and I would sure give a quick ruling were I still Chief Justice.

I find it funny only two people are crying foul about the constitution being subverted, while the rest of the region doesn't think it has been.
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People believe in the things they want to validate their position. That is why Grosse is trying very hard to justify this mockery of constitutional law based on semantics, which is a very common thing that he does whenever the constitution does not favor a specific outcome, he finds a way to make it work or confuse the most people possible. I seriously had considered, when I posted in the first topic about this, predicting that Grosse would come into the thread and do exactly what he did, but I considered it poor form to do so. I do it now just to illustrate how this sort of thing has happened before and the play book hasn't changed a lick. There are plenty of fools willing to be spoon fed the right story, the story they want to believe.
 
Show me that ruling.
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http://z13.invisionfree.invalid/TNP/index.php?showtopic=4799

Man you guys would put what colour of Lucky Charms to eat first in your breakfast to vote if you had the authority.

This is so redundant it's scary. By the time this vote is passed, there will only be 3 days left in the current election, and the election organizer doesn't have an influence on the outcome, why can't we just agree to bypass it this time for the sake of sanity and get on with things?
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Now this is defenitely where I quote HC signature. "Constitution when convenient."

I am going to keep the question easy for some of the brains that might get overload if I am being too complicated. Especially when the guy with the brain is still hurt because I don't follow his order and help him take the region. This action to set-up election disregarding the constitution and the law of the region. So why the hell do we needs a law if we're not going to abide to it anyway? What's the point of having a constitution to legislate the power of government official when we choose to disregard it for the sake of conveneint? I've yet to see anyone point me the word that indicates that CLO have the power to hold election?

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

We're doing exactly what Benjamin Franklin said....

I find it funny only two people are crying foul about the constitution being subverted, while the rest of the region doesn't think it has been.

Again, if it takes having this vote just to show the solidarity in the region, with the exception of Messrs Felasia and Haor Chall, then so be it.
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The fact that the whole region doesn't cry out loud doesn't means that they don't feel that the constitution isn't being subverted, it's just goes to show how deep the root of some group hold this region within their hands.

And thank you, Khark. Just because we don't feel comfortable to circumvalent the constitution make us an outcast. Perhaps I should contact Haor Chall and create another TNP government that believe in rule enough not to circumvalent the constitution? Especially since you keep trying to point out (very subtly, of course) that I am a power hunger that wants to take the region when you are one of the first who jump into the bandwagon during the CO.

Not really, but I'm sure it would make your day.

And don't cry about solidarity in the region, I think you're just a rat who always jump to the winning side. The Crimson Order already proved that you can't be trusted by anyone.
 
I am quite comfortable with the level of trust I enjoy in this region, thank you very much.

But back to the point at hand: lets have this vote so the whiners will shut up.
 
So, what's the plan? Keep recalling the election until the result is "constitutional"?
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But it (might be) unconstitutional!

Never understood the fervour behind the constitution, myself. Must be an American thing.
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I don't personally care about the result, and you're trying to point out that I feel that the candidates that I want to win is losing in the election when they're actually winning. Not a really convincing argument.

Just a simple vote saiding that the RA allow this election to be held would be enough, but the fact is that you're all feeling that I have a big hidden plan to take power in this region or to create chaos and I have no fucking idea how a simple vote by the RA to recognize and allow the election can do that.

Next time add a fact to your accusation or just keep your mouth shut.

Says the die hard member of the Crimson Order who still proudly displays his loyalties in his signature.
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Ehh.. your point being?

I believe you leave your brain outside somewhere. Try to look for it the next time you're trying to posted something. Yes, I'm a Crimson and I'm proud to said I've enough honor to admitted it. Do you?

I am quite comfortable with the level of trust I enjoy in this region, thank you very much.

But back to the point at hand: lets have this vote so the whiners will shut up.
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And that's all I am asking. How fucking hard could that be to hold this simple vote?
 
Felasia:
So, what's the plan? Keep recalling the election until the result is "constitutional"?
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But it (might be) unconstitutional!

Never understood the fervour behind the constitution, myself. Must be an American thing.
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I don't personally care about the result, and you're trying to point out that I feel that the candidates that I want to win is losing in the election when they're actually winning. Not a really convincing argument.

Just a simple vote saiding that the RA allow this election to be held would be enough, but the fact is that you're all feeling that I have a big hidden plan to take power in this region or to create chaos and I have no fucking idea how a simple vote by the RA to recognize and allow the election can do that.

Next time add a fact to your accusation or just keep your mouth shut.
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Then what is the point, man. If you don't have an agenda regarding the candidates you're simply advocating a pointless bureaucratic waste of time. Frankly I'd have more respect if it were the former, then at least they'd be a reason.
 
Then what is the point, man. If you don't have an agenda regarding the candidates you're simply advocating a pointless bureaucratic waste of time. Frankly I'd have more respect if it were the former, then at least they'd be a reason.
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A bureaucratic waste of time? So by your saiding the constitution is a bureaucratic piece of paper that deserve to be burn and drop into trash can? Hail Anarchy?

The point is that despite the fact that this is a [beep] bureaucratic [beep]. It's still a necessary [beep] to be uphold, otherwise, we could all just stuff the [beep] constitution into the toilet and make our own rule for the sake of convenient. All of you keep shouting that I am destroying the region and disregarding the constitution during the Crimson Order (and I did that), but right now all of you are doing the same thing and you're just saiding that it's a "bureaucracy"

So let's burn the constitution. Why the hell do we need them?
 
Felasia:
Then what is the point, man. If you don't have an agenda regarding the candidates you're simply advocating a pointless bureaucratic waste of time. Frankly I'd have more respect if it were the former, then at least they'd be a reason.
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A bureaucratic waste of time? So by your saiding the constitution is a bureaucratic piece of paper that deserve to be burn and drop into trash can? Hail Anarchy?

The point is that despite the fact that this is a [beep] bureaucratic [beep]. It's still a necessary [beep] to be uphold, otherwise, we could all just stuff the [beep] constitution into the toilet and make our own rule for the sake of convenient. All of you keep shouting that I am destroying the region and disregarding the constitution during the Crimson Order (and I did that), but right now all of you are doing the same thing and you're just saiding that it's a "bureaucracy"

So let's burn the constitution. Why the hell do we need them?
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Because we all know who will win. The point of the constitutional rule is so that charismatic rogue-types don't sweep in and steal our hearts and regions. That's clearly not applicable here.

I personally hold nothing sacred about the constitution. Hell, I remember a time without one, and things ran pretty much exactly the same. Without all this pointless nonsense, of course.
 
Felasia:
Then what is the point, man. If you don't have an agenda regarding the candidates you're simply advocating a pointless bureaucratic waste of time. Frankly I'd have more respect if it were the former, then at least they'd be a reason.
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A bureaucratic waste of time? So by your saiding the constitution is a bureaucratic piece of paper that deserve to be burn and drop into trash can? Hail Anarchy?

The point is that despite the fact that this is a [beep] bureaucratic [beep]. It's still a necessary [beep] to be uphold, otherwise, we could all just stuff the [beep] constitution into the toilet and make our own rule for the sake of convenient. All of you keep shouting that I am destroying the region and disregarding the constitution during the Crimson Order (and I did that), but right now all of you are doing the same thing and you're just saiding that it's a "bureaucracy"

So let's burn the constitution. Why the hell do we need them?
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You fail at trolling and flamebaiting.

:lol:
 
My apologies, I've editted it out.

Because we all know who will win. The point of the constitutional rule is so that charismatic rogue-types don't sweep in and steal our hearts and regions. That's clearly not applicable here.

I personally hold nothing sacred about the constitution. Hell, I remember a time without one, and things ran pretty much exactly the same. Without all this pointless nonsense, of course.
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Seeing that your argument didn't point or indicate anything regarding the legitimacy of the election. I find it lack of value to response.

You fail at trolling and flamebaiting.
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Of course, I will never be able to beat you on that. :worship:
 
Felasia:
My apologies, I've editted it out.

Because we all know who will win. The point of the constitutional rule is so that charismatic rogue-types don't sweep in and steal our hearts and regions. That's clearly not applicable here.

I personally hold nothing sacred about the constitution. Hell, I remember a time without one, and things ran pretty much exactly the same. Without all this pointless nonsense, of course.
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Seeing that your argument didn't point or indicate anything regarding the legitimacy of the election. I find it lack of value to response.
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What?

I have no idea why you're getting so riled up over this. Explain to me how re-electing the same person 3 sodding times is not a waste of time.
 
What?

I have no idea why you're getting so riled up over this. Explain to me how re-electing the same person 3 sodding times is not a waste of time.
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Actually, I have no need to explain that since the law demands it. Anyway, a solution is that you could just have the RA confirm the current election result and allow the speaker decision so we can be done with it. Far from what you think, I'm trying to offer a solution, but you all just feel it's far easier to point at me and said I am an ass and that is okay too if you want too.

Oh and I get riled up when people accusing me as a power hunger over something that I can't take power from. It's quite annoying that I can't furfill your dream to seize power by requesting for legitimacy in election.

I try though.
 
Felasia is making a legitimate point here.

Unfortunately I see no simple straightforward constitutionally-mandated solution to the problem.
 
Eluvatar:
Felasia is making a legitimate point here.

Unfortunately I see no simple straightforward constitutionally-mandated solution to the problem.
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The constitution says nothing on what to do if the 30-day rule is broken. Which infers that we're meant to use a bit of common sense in this situation.

Actually, I have no need to explain that since the law demands it. Anyway, a solution is that you could just have the RA confirm the current election result and allow the speaker decision so we can be done with it. Far from what you think, I'm trying to offer a solution, but you all just feel it's far easier to point at me and said I am an ass and that is okay too if you want too.

Oh and I get riled up when people accusing me as a power hunger over something that I can't take power from. It's quite annoying that I can't furfill your dream to seize power by requesting for legitimacy in election.

I try though.
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Ok, if you don't want to argue you point, I'll argue it for you. Let's say this motion carries and the results of the reelection (note that I never said anything about the original election being hunky-dory, as you seem to think), which the courts have declared valid, void; then what?
Option 1: We take another vote. Utterly pointless since we've just anulled the results of one re-vote, why on Earth vote again? To test the patience of RA members?
Result: The exact same results and a bunch of annoyed RA members who rightly would argue that voting 3 times for one person is simply insulting.

Option 2: We annul Tresville and Rhindon Blade's election. Undemocratic in the extreme and open to justified cries of shenanigans, not to mention going against everything the region stands for.
Result: Realpolitik kicks in and Tresville gets the delegacy anyway, many RA members disgusted at the courts for ignoring their voices.

Option 3: Go outside. Ok, I couldn't think of a third option that wasn't completely ludicrous.

OR

We accept the reelection as it is, save us all a lot of time and bother and get on with our lives. I admire your passion for the constitution, Felasia, I really do, but we're going into Lawful Stupid levels of farce here.
 
Sydia:
Felasia is making a legitimate point here.

We accept the reelection as it is, save us all a lot of time and bother and get on with our lives. I admire your passion for the constitution, Felasia, I really do, but we're going into Lawful Stupid levels of farce here.
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Finally someone is talking some sense, dragging our feet over this will only harm one thing and that is us.


KR
 
Felasia:
Anyway, a solution is that you could just have the RA confirm the current election result and allow the speaker decision so we can be done with it.
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A confirmation vote on the election will begin an hour after the re-vote ends.
 
Falconias:
Outer Kharkistania:
Felasia:
The Crimson Order already proved that you can't be trusted by anyone.
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Says the die hard member of the Crimson Order who still proudly displays his loyalties in his signature.

:lol:
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Beat me to it...

A confirmation vote on the election will begin an hour after the re-vote ends.
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:lol: gotta love it, a vote on a vote :P
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Falco... just because you don't succeed in taking TNP from us doesn't means you needs to keep pointing it out. I understand your dissapointment, but keep it to yourself please.

And a vote on a vote that shouldn't happen from the beginning if the speaker doesn't take convenient over constitution is necessary for the legitimacy of the delegate and CLO of the region, do you really want spy or enemy of the region to call in for judiciary after the transfer for delegate is complete and have you make the switch again just because there is a hole in the law?
 
Felasia:
And a vote on a vote that shouldn't happen from the beginning if the speaker doesn't take convenient over constitution is necessary for the legitimacy of the delegate and CLO of the region, do you really want spy or enemy of the region to call in for judiciary after the transfer for delegate is complete and have you make the switch again just because there is a hole in the law?
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I'm getting sick and tired of this allegation, and that's all we've heard: an allegation. If you were truly serious, you would put me on trial for abuse of power and oath violations. Instead you went ahead with a half-hearted request for a judicial opinion. Either prove it or stop it.

The power of the CLO is to stop and review executive actions, and what we did was take action on the failures of the Delegate appointed Election Commissioners. They were executive officials and the CLO and I stepped in after the courts failed to issue a ruling.

No one could fix it, so we stepped up in a fair and legal way.
 
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